Theory of Relativity?

[NeedSomeMCP]

Are you asking for a little help in understanding the basic ideas behind relativity?

A couple of observations:
HeyYou is right on the money with the concept of each planet having its own clock; Furthermore, each planet would be likely to adapt its own calendar as well, given that the length of the year (the time it takes for the body to rotate around its star) is likely to be different than the Earth's.

 

There would be some other difficulties. Mars, for example, has a day that is 24 hours and 30 some minutes long iirc. An analog clock trying to measure that would be horribly convoluted, and would almost require that the definitions of an hour would change to force the day length to be 24 hours, but then a Martian hour is no longer equivalent to an Earth hour. This would be bad. I would be so bold to predict that future time telling devices would be almost exclusively digital on foreign bodies.

Extreme examples might require some more finagling
A planet that is tidally locked to the body it orbits (one face always faces it; e.g. the moon is tidally locked to the Earth) might not have a sensible daily clock by itself. It is suspected that the recently found Trappist planets are tidally locked.
A planet that rotates around its own axis very slowly might have a day last longer that its year, for example, Venus. Inhabitants on such planets would probably eschew that planet's native rotation in favor of another clock system, possibly even just adapting an Earth's lengths for days.

Moon colonies could be different for all kinds of reasons. It could adopt a calendar based on the planet's journey around the star, especially if seasonal differences aren't likely to make a big impact on that moon. An example of this would be the Earth's moon. Other moons might need to adapt different calendars to represent seasonal changes. Given that the planet they orbit could be the driver of those seasonal changes, a moon might see four seasons in as little as a day or two.

The underlying measure of time, the second, is not likely to be changed appreciably.

A time system where local bodies broadcast their own local time could aid in timekeeping. Computers on a spaceship could compute the time difference due to relativity and adjust its date and time accordingly, and upon arrival or orbit around a body, could verify its calculations by querying the local time authority [possibly as simple as an automatic update as soon as the spaceship can connect to the local internet].

Some questions about your universe:

Are Alcubierre drives going to be a thing? Are there other sentient alien races? Is faster than light communication going to be present? And is it assumed that humanity is spreading out from Earth?

[Deleted54170User]

 

 

I understand.

The book you're planning on writing has it's first seed based upon any facts you have come across that inspired you to think of writing the book.

So you found a thought that planted an idea (the seed :wink:) in your mind. Where did you find it? Take it and use it. If you've left it back a few lines of text or memory flashes; Find it again and make note of it.

 

That's where your book begins, all about the idea ( a seed of thought :smile: ) and you should find it. For it is going to be written about until you can see what the idea becomes. A great novel? Perhaps, a short story? Or maybe a long technical explanation of what scientists will adore and be glad you wrote about it.

 

Well, it's not just a book that I'm envisioning. I am trying to build an entirely new setting or world to write many stories in....and that requires much research and "translation/ transition" if you will, into this new world. In other words, I want readers to feel as immersed as possible. One moment or breaking that immersion can diminish whatever story I'm trying to tell, so it's important to me to write things with as much detail as possible and have it all make sense, you know?

 

 

That's definitely not a debate criteria then. That's fantasizing. You need no help because you are going to be writing about a fact you found. A fact about what is known to you which causes your imagination to arise, to create, and giving it as such a reality only as you think it should be. Like Marxs wrote about.

 

A way of life, a way of governing ones self. And a way to govern ones family, and offer the ideals to the community.

 

You're expanding upon the journey of your own making then. You may even come up with a family lifestyle governed with better rules than the family you were raised among. Dysfunctional family (anarchistic), or Militant family (march to the same drummer), or democratic style with a side of republican and president in home life.

 

Have a great time writing and thinking about what you do!

[Fkemman11]

 

Some questions about your universe:

Are Alcubierre drives going to be a thing? Are there other sentient alien races? Is faster than light communication going to be present? And is it assumed that humanity is spreading out from Earth?

Agree with you that will probably be the way the time differences are likely handled, but I don't think it's the best solution. I still think one standard would work best.

 

In answer to your questions; I haven't decided what types of propulsion are going to be used or other means of travel (still researching). Yes, there will be alien races (though I haven't given it a lot of thought yet). Haven't decided on comms (research). Yes, spreading from Earth and I will try to explain the events/situation in some detail.

[Fkemman11]

 

 

That's definitely not a debate criteria then.

 

You almost seem disappointed. But, there is a debate about the time standard I mentioned. Okay, this is what I'm trying to figure out-

 

So depending on our position and speed, time can appear to move faster or slower to us relative to others in a different part of space-time. And for astronauts on the International Space Station, that means they get to age just a tiny bit slower than people on Earth. That's because of time-dilation effects.- does this mean that time-dilation could be used to greatly extend human longevity?

 

Also, the Earth does not turn at a constant rate and it is believed that it's rotation is slowing down, so time measurement for the planet must be adjusted every so often.

 

Einstein once stated that the distinction between the past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.- what does that mean?

[Deleted54170User]

 

 

 

That's definitely not a debate criteria then.

 

You almost seem disappointed. But, there is a debate about the time standard I mentioned. Okay, this is what I'm trying to figure out-

 

So depending on our position and speed, time can appear to move faster or slower to us relative to others in a different part of space-time. And for astronauts on the International Space Station, that means they get to age just a tiny bit slower than people on Earth. That's because of time-dilation effects.- does this mean that time-dilation could be used to greatly extend human longevity?

 

Also, the Earth does not turn at a constant rate and it is believed that it's rotation is slowing down, so time measurement for the planet must be adjusted every so often.

 

Einstein once stated that the distinction between the past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.- what does that mean?

 

 

I understand. I would like to introduce you to some scientific information which is considered relevant to the expanding and contracting time shift theories most popular to the scientific community. Words in some layman terms that is bringing a strong message to people who still believe what was believed to be the facts during the 19th Century.

 

Dilation. Expanding Universe. Space and time. The Electronic Universe by Thomas Findlay works helps focus on the past and present scientific considerations.

 

The popular and even very old scientific views are still held in the fans minds as perfect and nothing ever will change their minds. They probably don't even know that H. G. Wells wrote a book before Jules and Vern from Back to the Future grew up and wrote one too about a Time Machine. I like H. G. Wells The Time Machine version just as much as Jules Vernes The time machine. H. G. Wells also wrote in a new fashion that changed the way people wrote history books after his made history called, The Outline of History.

 

I'm not saying Mr. Findlay's PDF book is fact or fiction. Download the PDF and read the first couple of pages before it goes off into the classroom details of neutrons and electrons and electricity we all learned in high school.

 

I wonder if you will come to any conclusions we can then both discuss, with any new facts. If you don't agree with some of the information I highly understand. But be open minded and take it with a grain of salt, just like I did Einsteins Theory of Time shifts from the people on a spaceship traveling faster then the speed of light to the people on Earth.

 

As I recall Einstein said, that the Earth people age a hundred years, or so, according to Einsteins theory, and the people in the space craft are likely forgotten. The space travelers return back to Earth after 200 years pass on Earth. The space travelers are all only a few years older when they left. No one on Earth, anyone alive, may even remember the country sent people on a voyage.

 

Natural Earthly disasters, War, among many reasons people who are alive 200 years later might not even know anything about a space program. The Earth people all might end up children living like scavengers in the D. C. Wasteland. Like in Fallout 3.

 

What would you do if tomorrow a big Mother ship sized spacecraft with people from all around Earth returned and they all were from Earth 1949 and according to the clock on board ship, and their physical ages they had only been gone 6 months?

Or...

What would you do if someone appeared that disappeared from a climbing party, that went in search of a mysterious mythological machine and after everyone else gave up and went back down to the bottom only to find the person at the motel when they all got back to the motel and he told them he found a device that transported him down to the bottom instantly, then held up a hand held remote, and vanished right before their eyes?

 

None of that is in the book by Thomas Findlay. After you read about 3 pages though, I am sure you may find some interesting enough information to start coming up with good stuff for your book. I wrote to him just a couple of days ago and told him about your idea for a book. He's retired now and may not explore expanding on his book, but hopes someone else might like to add to it.

[NeedSomeMCP]

Agree with you that will probably be the way the time differences are likely handled, but I don't think it's the best solution. I still think one standard would work best.

 

In answer to your questions; I haven't decided what types of propulsion are going to be used or other means of travel (still researching). Yes, there will be alien races (though I haven't given it a lot of thought yet). Haven't decided on comms (research). Yes, spreading from Earth and I will try to explain the events/situation in some detail.

 

Spreading from Earth would support using the Earth Standard Time idea. Because even though other planets may have a different time rotating about its own axis or a different time rotating about the sun, using Earth Standard Time would be preferred for handling things like how old someone is. Then, depending on how the governments operate in your idea, certain functions might be tied to Earth Standard Time, like banking and such.

 

Are you attempting to create it so that the technology seems more feasible from a current stand point?

[NeedSomeMCP]

 

 

Dilation. Expanding Universe. Space and time. The Electronic Universe by Thomas Findlay works helps focus on the past and present scientific considerations.

 

....

 

I'm not saying Mr. Findlay's PDF book is fact or fiction. Download the PDF and read the first couple of pages before it goes off into the classroom details of neutrons and electrons and electricity we all learned in high school.

 

....

 

The Electric Universe ideas are fiction. As a theory it fails to describe current observations and fails to make any predictions. Most electric universe proponents choose to believe that gravity is not a fundamental force. Mind you, relativity isn't perfect, but it is good and practical.

 

That being said, fictional cosmologies can be a big hit (I still enjoy my Norse and Greek mythologies), but I get the feeling that isn't what OP is looking for.

 

...

 

 

So depending on our position and speed, time can appear to move faster or slower to us relative to others in a different part of space-time. And for astronauts on the International Space Station, that means they get to age just a tiny bit slower than people on Earth. That's because of time-dilation effects.- does this mean that time-dilation could be used to greatly extend human longevity?

 

Also, the Earth does not turn at a constant rate and it is believed that it's rotation is slowing down, so time measurement for the planet must be adjusted every so often.

 

Einstein once stated that the distinction between the past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.- what does that mean?

 

From the perspective of each observer, time is still passing normally; it wouldn't make someone live longer in the sense of their own perception. So, in that sense, it wouldn't extend human longevity. However, if I wanted to jump to the future, I could leave Earth, travel for a while at very fast speed, and then return. From the perspective of people on Earth, I would have aged slower, because I appear younger than I should be. From my perspective, I would have aged normally.

So, in the sense that someone who was alive in the year 2200 could still be alive in the year 3200, it could appear as if he lived longer, but from his perspective, his lifespan is still 80 years or so. I hope that makes sense.

 

I don't know if the Earth's rotation is slowing down, but it would follow that if it was, we would need to compensate for that. Such changes if they are occurring would be very small.

 

I am not familiar with that quote from Einstein.

[Fkemman11]

 

From the perspective of each observer, time is still passing normally; it wouldn't make someone live longer in the sense of their own perception. So, in that sense, it wouldn't extend human longevity. However, if I wanted to jump to the future, I could leave Earth, travel for a while at very fast speed, and then return. From the perspective of people on Earth, I would have aged slower, because I appear younger than I should be. From my perspective, I would have aged normally.

So, in the sense that someone who was alive in the year 2200 could still be alive in the year 3200, it could appear as if he lived longer, but from his perspective, his lifespan is still 80 years or so. I hope that makes sense.

 

I don't know if the Earth's rotation is slowing down, but it would follow that if it was, we would need to compensate for that. Such changes if they are occurring would be very small.

 

I am not familiar with that quote from Einstein.

 

 

Nope, still don't get it. I understand the relativity sort of, but I'm just not seeing the overall formula.

[Deleted54170User]

 

 

 

Dilation. Expanding Universe. Space and time. The Electronic Universe by Thomas Findlay works helps focus on the past and present scientific considerations.

 

....

 

I'm not saying Mr. Findlay's PDF book is fact or fiction. Download the PDF and read the first couple of pages before it goes off into the classroom details of neutrons and electrons and electricity we all learned in high school.

 

....

 

The Electric Universe ideas are fiction. As a theory it fails to describe current observations and fails to make any predictions. Most electric universe proponents choose to believe that gravity is not a fundamental force. Mind you, relativity isn't perfect, but it is good and practical.

 

That being said, fictional cosmologies can be a big hit (I still enjoy my Norse and Greek mythologies), but I get the feeling that isn't what OP is looking for.

 

...

 

 

So depending on our position and speed, time can appear to move faster or slower to us relative to others in a different part of space-time. And for astronauts on the International Space Station, that means they get to age just a tiny bit slower than people on Earth. That's because of time-dilation effects.- does this mean that time-dilation could be used to greatly extend human longevity?

 

Also, the Earth does not turn at a constant rate and it is believed that it's rotation is slowing down, so time measurement for the planet must be adjusted every so often.

 

Einstein once stated that the distinction between the past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.- what does that mean?

 

From the perspective of each observer, time is still passing normally; it wouldn't make someone live longer in the sense of their own perception. So, in that sense, it wouldn't extend human longevity. However, if I wanted to jump to the future, I could leave Earth, travel for a while at very fast speed, and then return. From the perspective of people on Earth, I would have aged slower, because I appear younger than I should be. From my perspective, I would have aged normally.

So, in the sense that someone who was alive in the year 2200 could still be alive in the year 3200, it could appear as if he lived longer, but from his perspective, his lifespan is still 80 years or so. I hope that makes sense.

 

I don't know if the Earth's rotation is slowing down, but it would follow that if it was, we would need to compensate for that. Such changes if they are occurring would be very small.

 

I am not familiar with that quote from Einstein.

 

 

 

 

From the perspective of each observer, time is still passing normally; it wouldn't make someone live longer in the sense of their own perception. So, in that sense, it wouldn't extend human longevity. However, if I wanted to jump to the future, I could leave Earth, travel for a while at very fast speed, and then return. From the perspective of people on Earth, I would have aged slower, because I appear younger than I should be. From my perspective, I would have aged normally.

So, in the sense that someone who was alive in the year 2200 could still be alive in the year 3200, it could appear as if he lived longer, but from his perspective, his lifespan is still 80 years or so. I hope that makes sense.

 

I don't know if the Earth's rotation is slowing down, but it would follow that if it was, we would need to compensate for that. Such changes if they are occurring would be very small.

 

I am not familiar with that quote from Einstein.

 

 

Nope, still don't get it. I understand the relativity sort of, but I'm just not seeing the overall formula.

 

 

NeedSomeMCP

 

Is the time shift variant's between the departure and return like the space astronaut who travels through time finding them self on an Earth like planet where they find out later, as they escape from a primitive tribe of animals that can talk, and keep humans as slaves, the astronaut finds the Statue of Liberty sticking out of shore toward the end short of what could happen?

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

 

Dilation. Expanding Universe. Space and time. The Electronic Universe by Thomas Findlay works helps focus on the past and present scientific considerations.

 

....

 

I'm not saying Mr. Findlay's PDF book is fact or fiction. Download the PDF and read the first couple of pages before it goes off into the classroom details of neutrons and electrons and electricity we all learned in high school.

 

....

 

The Electric Universe ideas are fiction. As a theory it fails to describe current observations and fails to make any predictions. Most electric universe proponents choose to believe that gravity is not a fundamental force. Mind you, relativity isn't perfect, but it is good and practical.

 

That being said, fictional cosmologies can be a big hit (I still enjoy my Norse and Greek mythologies), but I get the feeling that isn't what OP is looking for.

 

...

 

 

So depending on our position and speed, time can appear to move faster or slower to us relative to others in a different part of space-time. And for astronauts on the International Space Station, that means they get to age just a tiny bit slower than people on Earth. That's because of time-dilation effects.- does this mean that time-dilation could be used to greatly extend human longevity?

 

Also, the Earth does not turn at a constant rate and it is believed that it's rotation is slowing down, so time measurement for the planet must be adjusted every so often.

 

Einstein once stated that the distinction between the past, present and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.- what does that mean?

 

From the perspective of each observer, time is still passing normally; it wouldn't make someone live longer in the sense of their own perception. So, in that sense, it wouldn't extend human longevity. However, if I wanted to jump to the future, I could leave Earth, travel for a while at very fast speed, and then return. From the perspective of people on Earth, I would have aged slower, because I appear younger than I should be. From my perspective, I would have aged normally.

So, in the sense that someone who was alive in the year 2200 could still be alive in the year 3200, it could appear as if he lived longer, but from his perspective, his lifespan is still 80 years or so. I hope that makes sense.

 

I don't know if the Earth's rotation is slowing down, but it would follow that if it was, we would need to compensate for that. Such changes if they are occurring would be very small.

 

I am not familiar with that quote from Einstein.

 

 

 

 

From the perspective of each observer, time is still passing normally; it wouldn't make someone live longer in the sense of their own perception. So, in that sense, it wouldn't extend human longevity. However, if I wanted to jump to the future, I could leave Earth, travel for a while at very fast speed, and then return. From the perspective of people on Earth, I would have aged slower, because I appear younger than I should be. From my perspective, I would have aged normally.

So, in the sense that someone who was alive in the year 2200 could still be alive in the year 3200, it could appear as if he lived longer, but from his perspective, his lifespan is still 80 years or so. I hope that makes sense.

 

I don't know if the Earth's rotation is slowing down, but it would follow that if it was, we would need to compensate for that. Such changes if they are occurring would be very small.

 

I am not familiar with that quote from Einstein.

 

 

Nope, still don't get it. I understand the relativity sort of, but I'm just not seeing the overall formula.

 

 

NeedSomeMCP

 

Is the time shift variant's between the departure and return like the space astronaut who travels through time finding them self on an Earth like planet where they find out later, as they escape from a primitive tribe of animals that can talk, and keep humans as slaves, the astronaut finds the Statue of Liberty sticking out of shore toward the end short of what could happen?

 

Only if he looked like Charlton Heston. :)