BladeRunin Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 I dont know how to make programs or even mods so maybe there's a good reason why NMM got dragged far out into the woods & buried alive. I have spent the last 2 hours skimming through several posts in this forum concerning issues that people are having with Vortex & I must admit "at this time" that I wont be installing it any time soon. To me, making a new mod manager makes no sense what so ever when we already have one that works just fine(NMM)! Why didn't they just add these new features to NMM instead of going through the trouble of making a new mod manager from scratch which FORCES everybody to spend(waste) valuable time reading up on how to use ANOTHER mod manager? NMM as far as I know seems to be pretty well established with the gaming community & the only thing that I wish NMM had is a good auto load order function to it instead of the limited one it has now but other then that, it works great for me! I wonder, is it impossible to improve the NMM for some unknown(at least unknown to me) reason & if it cant then why is that? I'm sorry but again this makes no sense to me and I find it very counter productive when you can simply improve NMM if thats not impossible for some strange reason. I have not used Vortex yet so I dont have a personal opinion of it but from what I have read so far, it seems that it dose what a real vortex dose & that would be sucking boats & the occupants down to a watery grave. :/ I dont know but putting all the time and effort it takes to make a new mod manager instead of simply improving the one we have had for wile now seems kinda pointless. What ever the reason or reasons are, I'm not impressed so far but thats just me and I realize my take on things means nothing to the gods that be. One last thing, even though I'm a bit pi$$y about a new mod manager if it ends up working better then the NMM then I can deal with that just fine but if dose not work better then NMM..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingCheeseMonkey Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 It is better.More than half of the "issues" that pop up on here turns out to be people who used the "Import NMM" function and thought it would be a "one and done" type of solution. It's not. There are still things that needs to be changed to make it work.It's considered bad practices for a program to mess with another program's information, and as such, it's required to uninstall the mods through NMM first before installing through Vortex. Then there are the issues before February, where people had placed the mod staging folder in the game folder and wondered why things were messing up. Or had placed both the mod staging folder and the download folder into the same location and didn't understand why it would cause functions in Vortex to break. As to why NMM wasn't re-written, it's because to implement the feature into NMM would require a major overhaul of a lot of the code. I'm talking about literally deleting entire chunks and then writing it anew. While it is possible, it would also mean that Tannin would have had to also modify existing parts of the code so that it will work with the new code. Then he would have to go through the code again and get rid of any that don't match up to modern standards and rewrite them. Which needs to be done to get the program to run at its best at its current state. But yeah, the biggest improvement that Vortex has over NMM is the change from the idea of "install order" to "load order". With NMM you're tied to install order. Once you've told NMM to overwrite something, there is no way to undo it without uninstalling all related mods and re-installing them. Sometimes this doesn't even fix it, forcing the user to re-install everything. With Vortex, you tell it that you want to load Mod A after Mod B, Mod C before Mod B... etc. Which saves a lot more time over NMM. It doesn't actually take a lot of time to learn how to use it. You can start off with simply setting the Mod Staging folder in Settings into the same drive (the partition to be more specific) as the game folder, but not inside it, and you're good. Install the mods, hit the "Deploy" button to make sure the mods are placed into the game folder, and once all of the mod conflicts has been dealt with (which pops up in NMM as a "do you want to overwrite" thing, but Vortex as a lightning bolt, with red being bad, and green being good), you can play. If you want to use the more in depth features of Vortex, you can read parts of the in built "Knowledge Base" at your leisure. But if you're fine with just the basic functions, then that's it. You don't need to read or do anything further with Vortex aside from what you already do. Well, aside from using other tools to help enhance the gameplay, in which case you either run the tool inside the game folder, or you add the tool to Vortex using the .exe file in the game folder (which is what a lot of the BodySlide issues were. People accidentally linking the tool from the Mod Staging folder instead of the game folder). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AugustaCalidia Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 Nobody is being forced to use Vortex. NMM is alive and well on GitHub. Nexusmods stopped supporting an aging NMM in 2016 in favor of developing a new mod manager that was (and in fact is) more capable. Nexusmods turned over NMM to others for further development but still continues to offer it for download on the Nexus site. Furthermore, the updated NMM with the new API can be used for downloading mods from Nexusmods. The reasons for the change are many and have been spelled out in a number of Nexus news releases and forum articles. Since you've not tried out Vortex for yourself, don't you think it a bit presumptuous to post skeptical comments about Vortex such as "it seems that it dose (sic) what a real vortex dose (sic) & that would be sucking boats & the occupants down to a watery grave?" You've indicated that you base that opinion on a perusal of critical comments in the Vortex forums. To put things in perspective, I would invite you to spend some time also in the NMM support forums reading about NMM problems. It is far from a bed of roses there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deleted34304850 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark0ne Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 https://www.nexusmods.com/news/12905 This news post answers the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladeRunin Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 It is better. More than half of the "issues" that pop up on here turns out to be people who used the "Import NMM" function and thought it would be a "one and done" type of solution. It's not. There are still things that needs to be changed to make it work. It's considered bad practices for a program to mess with another program's information, and as such, it's required to uninstall the mods through NMM first before installing through Vortex. Then there are the issues before February, where people had placed the mod staging folder in the game folder and wondered why things were messing up. Or had placed both the mod staging folder and the download folder into the same location and didn't understand why it would cause functions in Vortex to break. As to why NMM wasn't re-written, it's because to implement the feature into NMM would require a major overhaul of a lot of the code. I'm talking about literally deleting entire chunks and then writing it anew. While it is possible, it would also mean that Tannin would have had to also modify existing parts of the code so that it will work with the new code. Then he would have to go through the code again and get rid of any that don't match up to modern standards and rewrite them. Which needs to be done to get the program to run at its best at its current state. But yeah, the biggest improvement that Vortex has over NMM is the change from the idea of "install order" to "load order". With NMM you're tied to install order. Once you've told NMM to overwrite something, there is no way to undo it without uninstalling all related mods and re-installing them. Sometimes this doesn't even fix it, forcing the user to re-install everything. With Vortex, you tell it that you want to load Mod A after Mod B, Mod C before Mod B... etc. Which saves a lot more time over NMM. It doesn't actually take a lot of time to learn how to use it. You can start off with simply setting the Mod Staging folder in Settings into the same drive (the partition to be more specific) as the game folder, but not inside it, and you're good. Install the mods, hit the "Deploy" button to make sure the mods are placed into the game folder, and once all of the mod conflicts has been dealt with (which pops up in NMM as a "do you want to overwrite" thing, but Vortex as a lightning bolt, with red being bad, and green being good), you can play. If you want to use the more in depth features of Vortex, you can read parts of the in built "Knowledge Base" at your leisure. But if you're fine with just the basic functions, then that's it. You don't need to read or do anything further with Vortex aside from what you already do. Well, aside from using other tools to help enhance the gameplay, in which case you either run the tool inside the game folder, or you add the tool to Vortex using the .exe file in the game folder (which is what a lot of the BodySlide issues were. People accidentally linking the tool from the Mod Staging folder instead of the game folder). Thank you very much for explaining this to me in detail so I can now make a much more informed decision on using Vortex over NMM & why that is. Now I know & understand why NMM was not simply upgraded & that would be because its not simple. I know very little about coding but I know it can be a reason why some things can and cant be done in certain situations so I really appreciate the detailed explanation as to why Vortex was made & NMM phased out. I will go ahead and switch over to Vortex now & thanks again. Forums need more people like you man. Cheers & much respect! ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladeRunin Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019  Nobody is being forced to use Vortex. NMM is alive and well on GitHub. Nexusmods stopped supporting an aging NMM in 2016 in favor of developing a new mod manager that was (and in fact is) more capable. Nexusmods turned over NMM to others for further development but still continues to offer it for download on the Nexus site. Furthermore, the updated NMM with the new API can be used for downloading mods from Nexusmods. The reasons for the change are many and have been spelled out in a number of Nexus news releases and forum articles. Since you've not tried out Vortex for yourself, don't you think it a bit presumptuous to post skeptical comments about Vortex such as "it seems that it dose (sic) what a real vortex dose (sic) & that would be sucking boats & the occupants down to a watery grave?" You've indicated that you base that opinion on a perusal of critical comments in the Vortex forums. To put things in perspective, I would invite you to spend some time also in the NMM support forums reading about NMM problems. It is far from a bed of roses there.  What I was saying about being "forced" to use Vortex is because NMM will no longer be supported so there will be no upgrades or bug fixes(when or if needed) made for NMM. So you either deal with a broken program or switch to Vortex that looked like it was not working very well. quote: "Since you've not tried out Vortex for yourself, don't you think it a bit presumptuous to post skeptical comments about Vortex"I did mention that I have not used it yet & I quote my self: "I have not used Vortex yet so I dont have a personal opinion of it" I also said this---> "I must admit "at this time" that I wont be installing it any time soon."Is it really so "presumptuous" as you put it, to not have some skepticism when it appears that a large amount of posts are negative? I realize that some of the posts where made by people that MIGHT have not installed Vortex correctly but I'm also not naive in believing its not always operator error either. I would like to say sorry for my harsh comments but when I get comfortable with a program and then find out thats its being replaced or not supported anymore it upsets me because I have to relearn a new program that seems to have a lot of negative feed back. I understand why it was done but it still bugs me even though the new one is suppose to be better. Sadly I have become very jaded about things because very little of anything is actually better. Hope you can understand me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmm200 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Nobody is being forced to use Vortex. NMM is alive and well on GitHub. Nexusmods stopped supporting an aging NMM in 2016 in favor of developing a new mod manager that was (and in fact is) more capable. Nexusmods turned over NMM to others for further development but still continues to offer it for download on the Nexus site. Furthermore, the updated NMM with the new API can be used for downloading mods from Nexusmods. The reasons for the change are many and have been spelled out in a number of Nexus news releases and forum articles. Since you've not tried out Vortex for yourself, don't you think it a bit presumptuous to post skeptical comments about Vortex such as "it seems that it dose (sic) what a real vortex dose (sic) & that would be sucking boats & the occupants down to a watery grave?" You've indicated that you base that opinion on a perusal of critical comments in the Vortex forums. To put things in perspective, I would invite you to spend some time also in the NMM support forums reading about NMM problems. It is far from a bed of roses there. What I was saying about being "forced" to use Vortex is because NMM will no longer be supported so there will be no upgrades or bug fixes(when or if needed) made for NMM. So you either deal with a broken program or switch to Vortex that looked like it was not working very well. Since you've not tried out Vortex for yourself, don't you think it a bit presumptuous to post skeptical comments about Vortex I did mention that I have not used it yet. Here is what I said---> I have not used Vortex yet so I dont have a personal opinion of it I also said this---> I must admit "at this time" that I wont be installing it any time soon.Is it really so presumptuous as you put it, to not have some skepticism when it appears that almost all posts are negative in content? I realize that some of the posts where made by people that MIGHT have not installed Vortex correctly but I'm also not naive in believing its not always operator error either. I would like to say sorry for my harsh comments but when I get convertible with a program and then find out thats its being replaced or not supported anymore it upsets me because I have to relearn a new program that seems to have a lot of negative feed back. I understand why it was done but it still bugs me even though the new one is suppose to be better. Sadly I have become very jaded about things because very little of anything is actually better. Hope you can understand me. Well what you say is kind of silly.NMM has not stopped working, it is still readily available, and it is still being maintained.You can download mods with it and it works just like it always did.Oh that is right "You have heard from people".Tip - don't believe half what you hear. Charitable case - they are mistaken. Form your own opinions.Download the newest NMM from here:https://github.com/Nexus-Mods/Nexus-Mod-Manager/releases Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AugustaCalidia Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 @BladeRunin What I was saying about being "forced" to use Vortex is because NMM will no longer be supported so there will be no upgrades or bug fixes(when or if needed) made for NMM. So you either deal with a broken program or switch to Vortex that looked like it was not working very well.As I mentioned earlier, NMM is alive and well at GitHub. There is ongoing NMM development and updating as we speak (or write, as the case may be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BladeRunin Posted July 2, 2019 Author Share Posted July 2, 2019 ask yourself this question; why windows 10, and not windows 3.1?why smartphones and not hard wired phones with ceramic connections at the post office?why cars and not horses?why electricity and not gas lights?why houses and not caves? it's called progress. it happens every day. if you're not aware of it, turn off your computer, go outside and live in the real world for a bit. I guess that you must have missed the title of my thread, "Why Vortex & Not NMM?". I think you could learn a thing or two from FlamingCheeseMonkey on how to actually be HELPFUL instead of destructive. Here are some really good quotes for people like your self. âAny fool can criticize, complain, and condemnâand most fools do. But it takes character and self-control to be understanding and forgiving.â â Dale Carnegie.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------âCriticism is an indirect form of self-boasting.â â Emmet Fox---------------------------------------------------------------------------âHe has a right to criticize, who has a heart to help.â â Abraham Lincoln------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Enough said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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