SSE Not blinded by helmet

[SirDanest]

So, I'm trying to learn a little about what's making skyrim run under the hood.
If the character wears a full-face helmet, like the chitin helmet from dragon born, what stops the player from being effectively blinded by the inside of the helmet, in 1st person mode?
With mods like joy of perspective, you can go into first person mode and look at your characters body, so... it clearly exists.
Then there's that "feature" where you can put a bucket on a shopkeeper's head and loot the store -- so items aren't see-through.
I assume somehow the helmet must just disappear when one uses first-person mode.

[HadToRegister]

Why do people think a helmet view in 1st person would look like the slots or holes in a helmet are a foot away from a person's face?
Like most of the mods out there do?


The Slots or eye holes are going to be about a 1/2 and inch or so away from your eye

[SirDanest]

The chitin helmet and the clavicus vile mask in particular don't have any eyeholes, so I'm just curious why our characters don't see the inside of the helmet in 1st person mode.
The helmet's mesh/texture must be vanishing in 1st person mode, which is happening for, well, pretty valid gameplay reasons, so I'm curious rather than complaining. I don't actually need a helmet-vision mod (if that's what it sounded like I was asking.) I think there is something like that anyway, already, for those who do want it.

[HadToRegister]

The chitin helmet and the clavicus vile mask in particular don't have any eyeholes, so I'm just curious why our characters don't see the inside of the helmet in 1st person mode.

The helmet's mesh/texture must be vanishing in 1st person mode, which is happening for, well, pretty valid gameplay reasons, so I'm curious rather than complaining. I don't actually need a helmet-vision mod (if that's what it sounded like I was asking.) I think there is something like that anyway, already, for those who do want it.

 

 

 

Chitin helmet always had the built in goggles

 

But yea, the Clavicus Vile mask definitely doesn't have holes

[Deleted10064660User]

The chitin helmet and the clavicus vile mask in particular don't have any eyeholes, so I'm just curious why our characters don't see the inside of the helmet in 1st person mode.

The helmet's mesh/texture must be vanishing in 1st person mode, which is happening for, well, pretty valid gameplay reasons, so I'm curious rather than complaining. I don't actually need a helmet-vision mod (if that's what it sounded like I was asking.) I think there is something like that anyway, already, for those who do want it.

 

 

Because it's fantasy logic and not having eye-holes is cool design I guess?

 

If you want the technical reason, yes the helmet is not rendered in first person, neither is your head, actually many full helms only have the illusion of eye-holes by putting a black mesh where the eyes should be. Guard helmets and Dwarven helmets do not have eye holes in the mesh itself, which is why you see pitch black instead of their eyes. So if you rendered helmets half of the helmets in the game would be impossible to see through even if some look they they have eye-slits.

 

Theoretically if you wanted to make a first person immersive helmet, I would not actually advise rendering the inside of helmets because the inside won't be shaded properly and will often have ugly textures when seen so close. On top of that it's not actually realistic because in real life your eyes do not focus on the helmet so a helmet looks like a dark blur around the edges of your vision rather than a crisp image.

 

Instead I would advise making a blurry vignette effect I guess similar to the one seen when you put a carved pumpkin on your head in Minecraft. So if you did want a helmet vision mod that's how you would make it. Of course if you wanted to go even farther with realism, you would edit the models so all helmets have proper eye-slits.

 

Basically put, your guess is right; helmets are never rendered not even with first person overhaul mods, doing so would require either a remodel of helmets or a shader effect.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Guest

[Aikospacerogue]

What Jnaejnae said is spot on, when you play 'First Person' in a game, you are usually a flying disembodied camera with a pair of arms, here is an example from U4E :

 

 

[SirDanest]

As I mentioned, there are already mods that add helmet-vision overlays. I was just curious as to the mechanics of how it was working.

With mods like joy of perspective, the entire body does render in 1st person , but it's still headless. No wonder reflections never include the player!

Anyway, for over a year I've been researching whether or not blindness is possible like it was in previous elder scrolls games -- it's almost certainly not.

[Aikospacerogue]

JoP works by removing a restriction to camera angles inside the NIF file of the armor iirc, or something like that, it does not do anything to the character so that's why the head doesn't (and should not !) be there as it would obscure the FPS camera, this is also why armors that have not been patched don't show up in first person with JoP enabled when you look down. Also Skyrim's render engine is from the pre PBR era so there aren't any real reflections heh.

 

 

 

Blindness ? You might have been asking entirely the wrong questions if that's what you where after, I'm certain that's a screen overlay effect, and not a 3D mesh or helmet or even a camera tweak like JoP, sure you can make a helmet but you'll still need the overlay to fake the effect in first person first and the 3D mesh to link it too can be anything.

 

Sounds like its entirely possible,I have seen near blind effects in quests (Just remembered the Thieves guild, Karliaha's arrow knocks you out) this isn't my 'territory' so I can't help you,it would probably go something like this :

 

-grab any helmet, heck any piece that goes on a charterer will work, a pair of boots for all I care its not like engine knows the difference unless you tell it too.

-get an existing effect, and tweak it to be dark and annoying to see, I absolutely hate the drunk effect so if you don't know how this stuff works, grab that to start. (or Karliahia's arrow ! but I forgot how her name is spelled pff )

-set up the boots to permanently give your PC the drunk effect, if it works you're practically done as you figured out the way.

 

Now all you now need to do is tweak the effect to be even more annoying and link it to a helmet, then ask more experienced people how to limit this to first person because the other stuff is not my thing, and is just me tapping into my old Morrowind days of doing weird stuff with armor, but the camera swaps might be papyrus related, done.

 

 

Edit: for clarification, these screen overlays and effects are stored in the magic section of CK.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Aikospacerogue

[SirDanest]

JoP works by removing a restriction to camera angles inside the NIF file of the armor iirc, or something like that, it does not do anything to the character so that's why the head doesn't (and should not !) be there as it would obscure the FPS camera, this is also why armors that have not been patched don't show up in first person with JoP enabled when you look down. Also Skyrim's render engine is from the pre PBR era so there aren't any real reflections heh.

 

 

 

Blindness ? You might have been asking entirely the wrong questions if that's what you where after, I'm certain that's a screen overlay effect, and not a 3D mesh or helmet or even a camera tweak like JoP, sure you can make a helmet but you'll still need the overlay to fake the effect in first person first and the 3D mesh to link it too can be anything.

 

Sounds like its entirely possible,I have seen near blind effects in quests (Just remembered the Thieves guild, Karliaha's arrow knocks you out) this isn't my 'territory' so I can't help you,it would probably go something like this :

 

-grab any helmet, heck any piece that goes on a charterer will work, a pair of boots for all I care its not like engine knows the difference unless you tell it too.

-get an existing effect, and tweak it to be dark and annoying to see, I absolutely hate the drunk effect so if you don't know how this stuff works, grab that to start. (or Karliahia's arrow ! but I forgot how her name is spelled pff )

-set up the boots to permanently give your PC the drunk effect, if it works you're practically done as you figured out the way.

 

Now all you now need to do is tweak the effect to be even more annoying and link it to a helmet, then ask more experienced people how to limit this to first person because the other stuff is not my thing, and is just me tapping into my old Morrowind days of doing weird stuff with armor, but the camera swaps might be papyrus related, done.

 

 

Edit: for clarification, these screen overlays and effects are stored in the magic section of CK.

Oh, I was just trying to figure out why we could see through a helmet/mask with no eyeholes, in first person mode. It's apparently because the head and everything attached to it vanishes in 1st person mode.

 

[HadToRegister]

 

Oh, I was just trying to figure out why we could see through a helmet/mask with no eyeholes, in first person mode. It's apparently because the head and everything attached to it vanishes in 1st person mode.

 

 

 

 

 

I imagine you could do something like that with a shader that turns the screen pitch black.

Kind of like the Boots of Blinding Speed in Morrowind would.

When you put them on, if you didn't have any magick resistance the screen would go black