CTD installing new mods... unless I get rid of 1-2 old ones first

[VigilantWarden]

Hello fellow Nexus-goers.

 

I'm having a very strange case of CTDs. I use Nexus Mod Manager (the very latest version) to install and enable mods like normal. However, lately I am having to disable (not uninstall entirely) other .ESPs in order to get newer and completely unrelated .ESPs to work.

 

Here's the rub: I am not at the plugin limit. (I'm at around 240 as we speak.) This assortment of mods used to work just fine several months ago, too.

 

Adding .ESLs or even Creation Club plugins also require that I disable at least one older .ESP, usually two.

 

I find this very strange. For example, to get a weapon mod working, I may have to remove two older armor mods. Completely unrelated assets wherein the only similarity is the use of the .ESP format.

 

What gives?

(Load order available on request.)

[HadToRegister]

Load Order should be posted by default, not request.

[VigilantWarden]

Load Order should be posted by default, not request.

I would normally agree with that, however I'm fairly confident this is not a load order issue.

 

Regardless of that, here it is:

 

GameMode=Fallout4

 

Fallout4.esm=1

DLCRobot.esm=1

DLCworkshop01.esm=1

DLCCoast.esm=1

DLCworkshop02.esm=1

DLCworkshop03.esm=1

DLCNukaWorld.esm=1

ccbgsfo4001-pipboy(black).esl=1

ccbgsfo4003-pipboy(camo01).esl=1

ccbgsfo4004-pipboy(camo02).esl=1

ccbgsfo4006-pipboy(chrome).esl=1

ccbgsfo4005-bluecamo.esl=1

ccbgsfo4016-prey.esl=1

ccbgsfo4018-gaussrifleprototype.esl=1

ccbgsfo4019-chinesestealtharmor.esl=1

ccbgsfo4020-powerarmorskin(black).esl=1

ccbgsfo4022-powerarmorskin(camo01).esl=1

ccbgsfo4023-powerarmorskin(camo02).esl=1

ccbgsfo4025-powerarmorskin(chrome).esl=1

ccbgsfo4033-powerarmorskinwhite.esl=1

ccbgsfo4024-pacamo03.esl=1

ccbgsfo4038-horsearmor.esl=1

ccbgsfo4042-bfg.esl=1

ccfsvfo4001-modularmilitarybackpack.esl=1

ccfsvfo4002-midcenturymodern.esl=1

ccfrsfo4001-handmadeshotgun.esl=1

cceejfo4001-decorationpack.esl=1

ccrzrfo4001-tunnelsnakes.esm=1

ccbgsfo4045-advarccab.esl=1

ccfsvfo4003-slocum.esl=1

ccgcafo4001-factionws01army.esl=1

ccgcafo4002-factionws02acat.esl=1

ccgcafo4003-factionws03bos.esl=1

ccgcafo4004-factionws04gun.esl=1

ccgcafo4005-factionws05hrpink.esl=1

ccgcafo4006-factionws06hrshark.esl=1

ccgcafo4007-factionws07hrflames.esl=1

ccgcafo4008-factionws08inst.esl=1

ccgcafo4009-factionws09mm.esl=1

ccgcafo4010-factionws10rr.esl=1

ccgcafo4011-factionws11vt.esl=1

ccgcafo4012-factionas01acat.esl=1

ccgcafo4013-factionas02bos.esl=1

ccgcafo4014-factionas03gun.esl=1

ccgcafo4015-factionas04hrpink.esl=1

ccgcafo4016-factionas05hrshark.esl=1

ccgcafo4017-factionas06inst.esl=1

ccgcafo4018-factionas07mm.esl=1

ccgcafo4019-factionas08nuk.esl=1

ccgcafo4020-factionas09rr.esl=1

ccgcafo4021-factionas10hrflames.esl=1

ccgcafo4022-factionas11vt.esl=1

ccgcafo4023-factionas12army.esl=1

ccawnfo4001-brandedattire.esl=1

ccswkfo4001-astronautpowerarmor.esm=1

ccswkfo4002-pipnuka.esl=1

ccswkfo4003-pipquan.esl=1

ccbgsfo4053-dggoldr.esl=1

ccbgsfo4056-dglabb.esl=1

ccrzrfo4004-pipinst.esl=1

ccrzrfo4003-pipover.esl=1

ccfrsfo4002-antimaterielrifle.esl=1

ccbgsfo4079-pipvim.esl=1

ccbgsfo4009-piporan.esl=1

ccbgsfo4011-pippurp.esl=1

ccbgsfo4021-powerarmorskinblue.esl=1

ccbgsfo4027-powerarmorskingreen.esl=1

ccbgsfo4034-powerarmorskinyellow.esl=1

ccbgsfo4028-powerarmorskinorange.esl=1

ccbgsfo4031-powerarmorskinred.esl=1

ccbgsfo4030-powerarmorskinpurple.esl=1

ccbgsfo4032-powerarmorskintan.esl=1

ccbgsfo4029-powerarmorskinpink.esl=1

ccbgsfo4010-pippnk.esl=1

ccsbjfo4001-solarflare.esl=1

cczsef04001-bhouse.esm=1

cctosfo4001-neosky.esm=1

cckgjfo4001-bastion.esl=1

ccbgsfo4063-papat.esl=1

ccqdrfo4001_powerarmorai.esl=1

ccbgsfo4048-dovah.esl=1

ccbgsfo4101-as_shi.esl=1

ccbgsfo4114-ws_shi.esl=1

ccrzrfo4002-disintegrate.esl=1

ccbgsfo4116-heavyflamer.esl=1

ccbgsfo4092-as_camoblue.esl=1

ccbgsfo4093-as_camogreen.esl=1

ccbgsfo4094-as_camotan.esl=1

ccbgsfo4105-ws_camoblue.esl=1

ccbgsfo4106-ws_camogreen.esl=1

ccbgsfo4107-ws_camotan.esl=1

ccbgsfo4118-ws_tunnelsnakes.esl=1

ccbgsfo4113-ws_reillysrangers.esl=1

ccbgsfo4112-ws_pickman.esl=1

ccbgsfo4110-ws_enclave.esl=1

ccbgsfo4108-ws_childrenofatom.esl=1

ccbgsfo4103-as_tunnelsnakes.esl=1

ccbgsfo4099-as_reillysrangers.esl=1

ccbgsfo4098-as_pickman.esl=1

ccbgsfo4096-as_enclave.esl=1

ccbgsfo4095-as_childrenofatom.esl=1

ccbgsfo4082-pipprc.esl=1

ccbgsfo4047-qthund.esl=1

cczsefo4002-smanor.esm=1

ccsbjfo4002_manwellrifle.esl=1

cctosfo4002_neonflats.esm=1

FCOM.esm=1

ArmorKeywords.esm=1

CROSS_CoA.esl=1

AORobcoReconScope.esl=1

AORobcoReconScopePaintJobs.esl=1

Classic Zeta Weapons.esl=1

PrototypeMedicPowerArmor.esl=1

PA Stuff Pack.esl=1

SettlementFixerBot.esl=1

SettlementMedicBot.esl=1

WhirligigRadarStation.esl=1

ZXCamouflageFatigues.esl=1

lnl_sclp_scaling.esl=1

FAR.esl=1

AlexMakarovPistol.esl=1

CROSS_BreakActionLaser.esp=1

CROSS_BrotherhoodRecon.esp=1

CROSS_CryoLance.esp=1

CROSS_MojaveManhunter.esp=1

CROSS_InstituteExpeditionarySuit.esp=1

Stainless Steel 44 Revolver.esp=1

LooksMenu.esp=1

Armorsmith Extended.esp=1

Ghouls Revamped.esp=1

Vivid Fallout - All in One - Best Choice.esp=1

UCW - Unified Commonwealth Weather.esp=1

DD_Khassar_De_Templari_Increased_build.esp=1

LoveToCraftLegendary_Recycle.esp=1

LoveToCraftLegendary_Recycle_Automatron.esp=1

LoveToCraftLegendary_Recycle_FarHarbor.esp=1

LoveToCraftLegendary_Recycle_NukaWorld.esp=1

MoreWeaves.esp=1

AutomatronLoadScreenFix.esp=1

No Lightstep (Traps, Mines), No Slient Running.esp=1

Adamantium Skeleton Improved - 90% Falling and Limb Damage.esp=1

bugfix_maglocks_terminal_delay.esp=1

WD_Pistol_Renimation_Pack.esp=1

RightHandedHuntingRifle.esp=1

Scopes.esp=1

Slide.esp=1

SlowTime.esp=1

QuickTrade.esp=1

MojaveImports.esp=1

chem redux.esp=1

Better Settlement Defence.esp=1

Faded Glory - Soundtrack Expansion.esp=1

Reverb and Ambiance Overhaul.esp=1

RadiantBirdsv05.esp=1

Nuka Rifle Animations.esp=1

AKM_AKMS.esp=1

IcebreakerCDO-Settlements.esp=1

RaiderOverhaul.esp=1

Raider Overhaul - AE Patch.esp=1

Raider Overhaul - AE Patch-Existing Content.esp=1

Raider Overhaul - AE Patch-Restored Content.esp=1

SuperMutantOverhaul.esp=1

SuperMutantOverHaul-Armorsmith.esp=1

10mmSMG.esp=1

155mm Howitzer M1.esp=1

45autoPistol.esp=1

9mmPistol.esp=1

Ak5C.esp=1

AK5CSkinPackAll.esp=1

AK74M.esp=1

AK74_FO4.esp=1

AllUSArmyAndX01.esp=1

Archimedes-II.esp=1

AUG-A1.esp=1

BasementLiving.esp=1

BerettaM9FS.esp=1

BioshockInspiredPowerArmor.esp=1

Blazkowicz.esp=1

SIKOutcastPaintjobPlatform.esp=1

Brotherhood of Steel Kit.esp=1

BoS Pilot Outfit Fix.esp=1

BOS Uniform Aesthetics.esp=1

BullpupBozar.esp=1

BZW_Executioner.esp=1

cartman1975_concrete-glass.esp=1

ChineseStealthSuit.esp=1

CircleAgent.esp=1

CMA_Arena.esp=1

Classic Combat Armor.esp=1

ClassicSniper.esp=1

ClassicSniperSounds.esp=1

classicsupersledge.esp=1

colonialgeneral.esp=1

CourserCrusher.esp=1

CROSS_Jetpack.esp=1

Deeper Thoughts - Expressive Curie.esp=1

DeployableTurretsPack.esp=1

DTP - AWKCR Compatibility.esp=1

ehtyeci_MPX.esp=1

Enclave-Armor-Paints.esp=1

EnclaveX02.esp=1

X02Factions.esp=1

FCOM-X02.esp=1

FissionBattery.esp=1

FO4TribalPowerArmor.esp=1

FixPipboy.esp=1

Fusion Gun.esp=1

F4NV-AMR.esp=1

G11.esp=1

G36Complex.esp=1

GhillieModV2.esp=1

GravityFist.esp=1

GrenadeExpansionPack.esp=1

GrenadeExpansionPackAWKCRPatch.esp=1

GunmetalArmorSkins.esp=1

GunmetalWeaponSkins.esp=1

VanillaArmorPaints.esp=1

HaxRPG7.esp=1

Heavy BoS.esp=1

HK_MP5.esp=1

HK_UMP.esp=1

HuntingRevolver.esp=1

FCOMPatch_B35C.esp=1

Hellfirenew.esp=1

X03Factions.esp=1

FCOM-X03.esp=1

Hoodless Scribe Hat.esp=1

ImprovedNukeNoShadow.esp=1

InstitWeapPosit.esp=1

IMP.esp=1

Jackhammer.esp=1

L96A1.esp=1

LAER.esp=1

Liberator.esp=1

Lore Friendly Posters.esp=1

LString_Bow.esp=1

LTW MOPP Suit.esp=1

Lucky Critter.esp=1

M1Garand.esp=1

M1GarandSkinPacksVol1.esp=1

M2_Flamethrower.esp=1

M2045MagnumRevolverRifle.esp=1

M29Devil.esp=1

MadScienceSuit.esp=1

MG42.esp=1

MilitarizedMinutemen.esp=1

MisriahArmory.esp=1

MA37.esp=1

mjp_PTRS41ATR.esp=1

Mk41GyrojetHMG.esp=1

ModularGaussRifle.esp=1

MP-412.esp=1

MP7.esp=1

MyCart_Biohazard.esp=1

N99.esp=1

Nuka-MixUniqueTextures.esp=1

OctaviusSentibar_Labels.esp=1

P42MarineArmor.esp=1

Plasma Cycler.esp=1

PlasmaCycler_1.5xDamage.esp=1

Police_Officers.esp=1

PowerArmorJumpUpgrade.esp=1

powerarmort49.esp=1

Quad_Fusillade.esp=1

R91AssaultRifle.esp=1

Rangergearnew.esp=1

ReconPack.esp=1

Relic Space Marine.esp=1

Reload Sounds.esp=1

RemoteExplosives.esp=1

RU556.esp=1

RustDevilRedux.esp=1

Sandbag Fortifications - Version 2C.esp=1

SCAR-L.esp=1

Scarlet_To_Curie.esp=1

SecurityArmorV88.esp=1

SettlementPrivacy.esp=1

ShootingTarget.esp=1

Sierra Power Armor By Mr. Mobius.esp=1

SigSauer127.esp=1

F4NVServiceRifleRedux.esp=1

F4NVServiceRifleRedux127mmPatch.esp=1

Skibs-Miniguns.esp=1

SkyrimInspiredPowerArmor.esp=1

STG60.esp=1

SubmersiblePowerArmorRedux.esp=1

Survivalist Go-Bags_AE_AWKCR.esp=1

SVT40.esp=1

SVT40SkinPacksAll.esp=1

T45Outcast.esp=1

Tan_Paint_PA.esp=1

Tec-9.esp=1

Tesla Quad.esp=1

Tesla X01.esp=1

TFDeagle.esp=1

The Space Marine.esp=1

USP Mod.esp=1

USP_Animation.esp=1

VarmintRifle.esp=1

VertibirdBeacon.esp=1

Viper6610.esp=1

Wana_SA58.esp=1

WastelandImports_NukaColaCherry.esp=1

WattzLaserGun.esp=1

win1897.esp=1

WinterizedPack.esp=1

WM Chinese Assault Rifle - Standalone.esp=1

Xan-Ammo-All-DLC-w-c.esp=1

YK42B.esp=1

Yona_Weapon_DefenseGun.esp=1

FOC_NCR_Armors.esp=1

FOC_NCR_Armors_AWCKR.esp=1

Vertibird Faction Paint Schemes.esp=1

Consistent Power Armor Overhaul.esp=1

Brotherhood Power Armor Overhaul.esp=1

BPAO - Automatron Patch.esp=1

PAReFrame.esp=1

SimplySorted.esp=1

WestTekTacticalOptics.esp=1

WestTekTacticalOptics-AWKCR.esp=1

Stronger Brotherhood ALL in ONE.esp=1

WastelandCodex.esp=1

WZWildWasteland.esp=1

FO4 NPCs Travel.esp=1

BTInteriors_Project.esp=1

BTInt_Optimization.esp=1

SwampsEXPANDED.esp=1

Mercenary.esp=1

Mercenary_TexEdits.esp=1

Some Trees.esp=1

FLORA - The Fungal Forest.esp=1

SOTS.esp=1

SOTS_AWKCR_AS_Patch.esp=1

MoreAGOMBz.esp=1

EDSSG_All_DLC.esp=1

AWKCR - Mod Power Armor Engine Glitch Fix.esp=1

Tunnel Snake Additions.esp=1

200%pipboy.esp=1

300%Shadows.esp=1

Synth Helmet Light.esp=1

AE-Armor and Weapon Paint Patch.esp=1

Vanilla Damage Modifiers.esp=1

WD_44.esp=1

LeverActionReloadOverhaul.esp=1

Adsumus_FO76_Imports_GUN.esp=1

FO76PA.esp=1

Project 2102.esp=1

NVUMP.esp=1

jm-handmadeshotgun.esp=1

Improved BFG9000.esp=1

WD_BFG_ANIMATIONS.esp=1

Hexi_Ranger_AntiMaterielRifle.esp=1

Solar Cannon Enhanced.esp=1

BAM-BetterArmoryMod.esp=1

WestTekDummyOptics.esp=1

CC Manwell Rifle Unofficial Patch.esp=1

CCMMB_CutContent_AE_AWKCR.esp=1

Merged.esp=1

 

 

[StormWolf01]

Heyas Warden.

Ok, this is as I suspected when I first read your post. You're running too many esl files. Way too many.

Dammit. I was literally JUST reading a thread that was talking about that, and now I can't find it again! GRRRR

 

Anyway, your LO suggests that you're using esl files as a replacement for esp files, so as to avoid the plugin limit. Esl files were never intended to be used like that, and they can't be. They have limits. One, you can only have so much data (it was listed in that thread that I can't find now!) in TOTAL for esl files.

Meaning, that there is a cap of how many entries the game can read, through esl files, before it starts actiing up.

Too many esl files can also lead to savegame corruption.

 

Now, while I do not know if this is a factor for the PC. But, when I played on the PS4, the number of esl files that you played with, also factored against the number of, or the size of, mods that were esm and esp. IE- if you started using a bunch of esl files (CC content, in the case of the ps4) and you were close to your 150 mod limit (Thats not a typo. Sony has a 150 cap on theirs.) or you were using heavily scripted mods, you were on a certain road for save game corruption.

They commonly called it the Out of Memory Bug.

 

But just to reiterate, the symptoms that you're describing are exactly like what is caused by too many esl files, and your LO confirms it. You're gonna have to find another way to use your mods, I'm sorry to say.

 

 

Edit- I just read further through your load order, and I see now that I didn't read far enough into it. So I DEFINITELY apologize. The rest of the post is true tho. I know it really sucks, since all of that is stuff that you PAID for.... (Thank you Bethesda for letting me PAY you to BREAK my game!) but there's the truth of it. Too many, way too many esl files.

Edited November 18, 2019 by StormWolf01

[VigilantWarden]

I see. Thank you for such a comprehensive explanation, StormWolf01! A kudo for you! :laugh:

 

I have the bad habit of picking up any random free mod on the Creation Club store whenever I browse and see one. I'd like to be able to disable many of them at this point, but I understand that that is not an easy process either....

 

I'm a little surprised I've already reached a hardcap on .esl plugins, but I'm not totally shocked either. I figured that most of the .esls were lightweight (a lot of Pipboy skins) and thus would not endanger me of reaching the hypothetical .esl file limit.

 

It definitely seems to make sense. This started happening after I started messing with .esls and converting some old .esps. I'm aware that the upcoming Creation Club update on November 21 is greatly increasing the maximum formlist limit for .esls, so I hope I can do something with that to help myself out.

 

Thanks again! I'll consider this case closed and resolved for now. What a strange issue!

[StormWolf01]

Heya Warden! First, much appreciated for the kudos!

HAH! Yeah, I was the same way, back when I first started playing on the PS4. Oh! Something Free! Lemme grab that! (I'm an absolutely horrible internet horder!)

Ok, this may not be spot on. But the way that my limited knowledge understands it, is that the way the game does it, is that it reads how many entries are in the esl file. For each and every esl file. and then adds them all up and totals them all up together. Similar, but not the same, as the way the game adds up how many plugins installed.

So while the esl files themselves may only have for complete example, 8 or 9 entries in them, they still get totalled up with with all of the others.

If the total number of entries inside the combined total of the esl files, goes past the limited amount of entries for esl files, you get the results of the crash, or having to uninstall mods, in order to add new ones.

In essence, they way that they currently have the system set up, you literally get nickle and dime'd to death.

Uninstalling esl files. Well, first, you want to go through your active saves, and make sure that none of your characters, or NPC's have any if the items, or effects, from said esl mods. If so, remove them, and then clean save. Those, you can then uninstall or remove. Like your pip boy skins.

It's the ones that start up quests, or use scripts that are a problem. Those scripts get saved into your savegames. And currently, there's no "reliable" way of scrubbing them. There's a cleaner, but I'm not gonna link to it, since it can't tell which scripts are from mods that are still installed, and scripts from mods that are no longer in the game. Very dangerous.

 

Agreed, we will have to wait and see. Tho tbh, I honestly don't trust Bethesda any more than I do Microsoft, in that their fixes, may cause more issues. But we will see! :D

But yeah, for right now, just resist that urge to click into the creation club. And cut and paste as much of that creation club content out of your data folder as you can.

[VigilantWarden]

I have a pretty amateur understanding of the .esl format myself, but I am very familiar with .esps and .esms over many years of tinkering. I've more or less taught myself various ins-and-outs of the Construction Set, TES Editor, G.E.C.K., and two subsequent Creation Kit SDKs. I may be a novice with .esls, but I like to think I have a pretty advanced understanding of the rest of'em! :laugh:

 

I've more or less dumped all of my Pipboy skins, as they would be the least invasive files to remove. In fact, removing them should cause little to no trouble at all.

 

As for those plugins with quests and active Papyrus scripting, I'm more hesitant to remove them but generally still know how to do so fairly "cleanly".

 

I really hope that the next Creation Club update streamlines the .esl format a bit more -- for our sanity if anything! That, and people have been asking for an official way to uninstall/disable CC content seemingly forever now.......

[Mktavish]

Isn't it true that the most common problem is user error ?

 

We need a multiplayer option so we can smak the stupid peo;

[StormWolf01]

Warden, you'll have to forgive me for some of my old habits born from my days working as tech support. I tend to treat every tech related convo as if I'm talking to somebody who doesn't know how to do, or understand what I'm talking about. It just comes as second nature after talking to 80-100 people a day. Day, after day after day, after day, after..... well yeah.

Mktavish- again back to working tech support.... you have nooooo idea how long techs has wanted to be able to smack stupid people...... :whistling:

There's a very, very, very, very old term in the tech industry for user error, mixed with stupidity. It's called an ID ten T error.

or..... ID10T error, LOL.

Warden, Not sure if you've used it or not, but Unified Clothing Overhaul (UCO) has some pipboy skinning options. If you want to try to replace some of your lost functionality from the CC. I've used the mod for a looooong time, and aside from some of the load order conflicts for legendary mod slots, it's always been in my "must have" lists, for all my load order builds.

[HadToRegister]

I avoid ESL when I can.
I also use Vortex, which has a built in feature that can convert your "light" ESPs into ESPfe's

ESPfe, are Like ESLs, in that they don't take up a mod slot, however, they are SORTABLE, like a regular ESP is, so it's the best of both worlds.