What Did Skyrim Do Right?

[Enatiomorph]

Less spells, less effects, no customization. Magic in Skyrim is pretty much all graphics and no uniqueness, no diversity, no customization. No more tailoring spells and gameplay styles to your magic using RPs. No more thinking outside of the box and getting creative with spells. Magic builds (their spells) in Sky are old after only a handful compared to every other ES (all of which had spell creation). Magic is a linear joke now compared to what it was. It has nothing to do with nostalgia or any other factor other than numbers and having more options. Previous titles gave us more of everything in regards to magic (even Arena and Dagger). Why I have to go back to them for a lot of builds that are not even viable or unique if they were put into Skyrim. Todd definitely took the magic out of magic with Skyrim.

 

 

In your opinion.

 

I found magic a real pain in Morrowind. Oblivion it was fine. Spell creation did nothing for me, it just felt like a cheat mechanic lol.

No. Simple math. Less of everything is not magically more. More effects, more variables and more customization>less effects, less variables (almost none) and absolutely no customization. And that's just from Ob to Sky, from Morrow to Sky it is even less.

 

Maybe you lack imagination and self control? Wasn't hard to make extremely unique and creative spells that were not over powered. Pretty much made magic RPs and diversity what it was. Why you could have hundreds of magic builds in the previous games and they were all unique (in terms of their magic use). Because you were, you know, making spells and not restricted to a small static list (like in Sky). Even Arena has better magic than Skyrim and that's sad.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Enatiomorph

[MiloHunts]

Maybe in Oblivion, Bethesda made the "make your own spell" and it was good.

 

Then the number one Mod was released and Bethesda saw that they didn't have to put the work into the spells because Xilver is the master of spells, and that most people will use his spells.

After I downloaded Midas Magic, I never used my "Finger of the Mountain" (210 damage) spell anymore.

 

Bethesda has proven that they listen sometimes and maybe this is one of them.

[luzburg]

Maybe you lack imagination and self control? Wasn't hard to make extremely unique and creative spells that were not over powered. Pretty much made magic RPs and diversity what it was. Why you could have hundreds of magic builds in the previous games and they were all unique (in terms of their magic use). Because you were, you know, making spells and not restricted to a small static list (like in Sky). Even Arena has better magic than Skyrim and that's sad.

 

 

:thumbsup: I knew it was a matter of time before you started insulting me personally. Good job on proving my suspicions correct.

 

My opinion is not greater than yours. It is simply mine.

I said it did nothing for me. I felt it was useless for my needs.

 

Then the number one Mod was released and Bethesda saw that they didn't have to put the work into the spells because Xilver is the master of spells, and that most people will use his spells.

After I downloaded Midas Magic, I never used my "Finger of the Mountain" (210 damage) spell anymore.

 

This. I use Skyre and it has made Skyrim magic perfect for me.

Edited October 31, 2012 by luzburg

[musicalfrog7]

While I do like the idea of having attributes.....

 

Eh.

 

Going to be honest. Glad they got rid of them. I hated the leveling system of Oblivion. If you didn't know what you were doing you could level up your stats all wrong and end up being a weak character. Hated that.

Which had nothing to do with attributes and everything to do with level scaling. Getting rid of attributes just got rid of more customization, diversity and individuality for RPs.

 

Whatever small improvements Skyrim made here and there (mostly stuff from previous games like mounted combat), they dumbed down too much for it to really matter. Magic is a complete joke in Skyrim and the worst it has ever been. We got less of everything when it came to magic.

 

Oh yeah, I don't have a problem with attributes themselves. But since the problem I have concerns attributes, I associate it with that. Specifically what I hate is, in order to be a good, strong and decent character, you need to level this way:

 

Okay make your major attributes something you never use and are controllable. Okay good. Now, every level, make sure you level a skill associated with the attribute you want to level five times. Okay, good....

 

That drives me up the wall and comes pretty close to being a deal breaker with the games for me. And yet, if I don't do that way of leveling, then I am running around the game being destroyed by monsters.

[Kraeten]

Well, Skyrim is pretty hit and miss for me. I love what they've done with crafting. I'm disappointed they scrapped the armor/weapon health mechanic though. Here's what I think are clear improvements with little or no drawbacks.

 

1. The sky, which includes the stunning Aurora Borealis.

2. Dwemer ascetic redesign.

3. Redesign of the races ESPECIALLY ORCS.

3. SPRINT. Really every game with a boots on the ground protagonist should have this.

4. Armor diversity. Although I may prefer some Oblivion armor designs to Skyrim, Oblivion's armor followed a very narrow formula. Skyrim's meshes on the other hand had much greater variety.

5. Perks. These made Fallout 3's combat a lot of fun, and they've done the same for Skyrim.

6. Decapitations. Because swinging axes and swords should have dismemberment.

7. Combat in general.

8. Graphics in general, which have only been improved with mods like ENB.

 

I just wish the main quest, guilds, and especially the civil war had better writing and greater length. Anyone who's used the Creation Kit knows that there was groundwork to include many more sieges than what we've seen in the vanilla game. That the devs didn't include that content was really a lost opportunity.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Kraeten

[JanusForbeare]

3. Redesign of the races ESPECIALLY ORCS.

 

I hadn't thought of this, but you're absolutely right. Orcs in Oblivion looked like cartoons, in Skyrim they just look badass.

 

5. Perks. These made Fallout 3's combat a lot of fun, and they've done the same for Skyrim.

 

Agreed, though they didn't give perks the same variety that Fallout had. I wish they hadn't tied the perk system directly to the various skills; it doesn't leave room for the really interesting ones, like Mysterious Stranger, Lawbringer, Bloody Mess, etc.

 

Anyone who's used the Creation Kit knows that there was groundwork to include many more sieges than what we've seen in the vanilla game. That the devs didn't include that content was really a lost opportunity.

 

Yeah, it's a real shame. The Civil War was supposed to be dynamic, with both offensive and defensive missions, attacks on villages, forts, AND cities, etc. 11/11/11 just made it into a one-sided, all-out assault.

[Georgiegril]

Almost everything skyrim didn't do "right" (which I agree, often really means"not to one's taste,") can be addressed by mods. That, to me is what Skyrim did best: Bethesda's support of modding has made Skyrim incredibly varied, customizable and interactive. I have played through 6 or 7 times now, and every time I have a much different experience, because of the mods I picked and the choices my character makes.

[musicalfrog7]

 

3. Redesign of the races ESPECIALLY ORCS.

 

 

I guess I must be one of like 2 people who did not like the re-design. Skyrim orcs are too human to me, especially female orcs. What happened to them being an ugly, savage people? But again, this is more of a problem with the female side of things. And guess which gender I play....

I like the idea of making them less cartoony and more realistic like but I would have liked it if they kept more of their distinguishly orcish traits.

 

 

But to add some positive to this post, I am absolutely in love with the dungeons of Skyrim. Every time I get to romp through one it's pure bliss for me. :wub:

[sajuukkhar9000]

Which had nothing to do with attributes and everything to do with level scaling. Getting rid of attributes just got rid of more customization, diversity and individuality for RPs.

 

Whatever small improvements Skyrim made here and there (mostly stuff from previous games like mounted combat), they dumbed down too much for it to really matter. Magic is a complete joke in Skyrim and the worst it has ever been. We got less of everything when it came to magic.

Actually the removal of attributes made characters more diverse then they were in past Elder Scrolls games.

 

In past Elder Scrolls games as you leveled up your characters major/minor skills you got bonuses to how much you could upgrade the attribute those skills were tied to. This resulted in a leveling system that, by the time you were even half way done with leveling you would max all of the attributes tied to your major/minor skills, and would be forced to level up attributes that weren't tied to any of your major/minor skills. That effected the entire leveling system by making it when you were finally done leveling you would have all of your major attributes maxed, and most of the other attributes at very high levels.

 

The side effect of Elder Scrolls attribute system, and indeed all attribute systems, is that attributes control almost everything you do, and one character with X level attribute does the same as another character with X level attribute.

 

With Morrowind/Oblivion's attribute system controlling the power of most things you do, and them making you raise all your attributes to very high levels, it ultimatly resulted in almost every character you made having the same, or highly similar attributes, and thus making all of your character exactly the same.

 

Morrowind/Oblivion's leveling system was a pyramid, the base, or level 1, was the most diverse your character ever got, and as you leveled up, and raised your attitudes, all of your characters became more similar. In removing attributes Skyrim flipped the pyramid upside down, now, while all characters start off the same, they become vastly different via perks.

 

In Morrowind in Oblivion a character that had 100 in all skills, and nearly 100 in all attributes, did the same damage got the same armor protection, etc. etc. In Skyrim however a character with 100 in all skills, and the same HP/Magicka/Stamina can do vastly different damage with weapons, and get vastly different protection from armor based on what perks they have.

 

It is demonstrable fact that removing attributes did not in any way shape or form kill character diversity, and in fact made characters more diverse.

[Enatiomorph]

Maybe in Oblivion, Bethesda made the "make your own spell" and it was good.

 

Then the number one Mod was released and Bethesda saw that they didn't have to put the work into the spells because Xilver is the master of spells, and that most people will use his spells.

After I downloaded Midas Magic, I never used my "Finger of the Mountain" (210 damage) spell anymore.

 

Bethesda has proven that they listen sometimes and maybe this is one of them.

Except that he gave up on Midas magic long ago. Probably because magic is so terrible in Skyrim. And more spells =/= spell creation.

 

While I do like the idea of having attributes.....

 

Eh.

 

Going to be honest. Glad they got rid of them. I hated the leveling system of Oblivion. If you didn't know what you were doing you could level up your stats all wrong and end up being a weak character. Hated that.

Which had nothing to do with attributes and everything to do with level scaling. Getting rid of attributes just got rid of more customization, diversity and individuality for RPs.

 

Whatever small improvements Skyrim made here and there (mostly stuff from previous games like mounted combat), they dumbed down too much for it to really matter. Magic is a complete joke in Skyrim and the worst it has ever been. We got less of everything when it came to magic.

 

Oh yeah, I don't have a problem with attributes themselves. But since the problem I have concerns attributes, I associate it with that. Specifically what I hate is, in order to be a good, strong and decent character, you need to level this way:

 

Okay make your major attributes something you never use and are controllable. Okay good. Now, every level, make sure you level a skill associated with the attribute you want to level five times. Okay, good....

 

That drives me up the wall and comes pretty close to being a deal breaker with the games for me. And yet, if I don't do that way of leveling, then I am running around the game being destroyed by monsters.

And that was all on level scaling. You didnt have to do that in Morrowind, which had attributes.

 

Maybe you lack imagination and self control? Wasn't hard to make extremely unique and creative spells that were not over powered. Pretty much made magic RPs and diversity what it was. Why you could have hundreds of magic builds in the previous games and they were all unique (in terms of their magic use). Because you were, you know, making spells and not restricted to a small static list (like in Sky). Even Arena has better magic than Skyrim and that's sad.

 

 

:thumbsup: I knew it was a matter of time before you started insulting me personally. Good job on proving my suspicions correct.

 

My opinion is not greater than yours. It is simply mine.

I said it did nothing for me. I felt it was useless for my needs.

 

Wasn't an insult. Simple logical deduction. All you could see from the most expensive crafting mechanic was to cheat. That's lack of imagination. If you made an OP spell, it was on you. Very easy not to make an OPed spell, so I guess you lacked control.

 

Which had nothing to do with attributes and everything to do with level scaling. Getting rid of attributes just got rid of more customization, diversity and individuality for RPs.

 

Whatever small improvements Skyrim made here and there (mostly stuff from previous games like mounted combat), they dumbed down too much for it to really matter. Magic is a complete joke in Skyrim and the worst it has ever been. We got less of everything when it came to magic.

Actually the removal of attributes made characters more diverse then they were in past Elder Scrolls games.

 

In past Elder Scrolls games as you leveled up your characters major/minor skills you got bonuses to how much you could upgrade the attribute those skills were tied to. This resulted in a leveling system that, by the time you were even half way done with leveling you would max all of the attributes tied to your major/minor skills, and would be forced to level up attributes that weren't tied to any of your major/minor skills. That effected the entire leveling system by making it when you were finally done leveling you would have all of your major attributes maxed, and most of the other attributes at very high levels.

 

The side effect of Elder Scrolls attribute system, and indeed all attribute systems, is that attributes control almost everything you do, and one character with X level attribute does the same as another character with X level attribute.

 

With Morrowind/Oblivion's attribute system controlling the power of most things you do, and them making you raise all your attributes to very high levels, it ultimatly resulted in almost every character you made having the same, or highly similar attributes, and thus making all of your character exactly the same.

 

Morrowind/Oblivion's leveling system was a pyramid, the base, or level 1, was the most diverse your character ever got, and as you leveled up, and raised your attitudes, all of your characters became more similar. In removing attributes Skyrim flipped the pyramid upside down, now, while all characters start off the same, they become vastly different via perks.

 

In Morrowind in Oblivion a character that had 100 in all skills, and nearly 100 in all attributes, did the same damage got the same armor protection, etc. etc. In Skyrim however a character with 100 in all skills, and the same HP/Magicka/Stamina can do vastly different damage with weapons, and get vastly different protection from armor based on what perks they have.

 

It is demonstrable fact that removing attributes did not in any way shape or form kill character diversity, and in fact made characters more diverse.

Actually no it didnt, at all. If you RPed and stuck to your build you never maxed out all attributes. Mathematically impossible. Had over 200 builds in Ob alone, not one had maxed attributes. Attributes, skills and perks is more variables than just skills and perks. It's already known and proven there was more diversity in attributes (more variables). More simple math really. Not to mention a character with the same perks and skill in Sky, does the same anyway, which usually ends up happening when you have a lot of builds, or a overlapping skill. So yeah, Attributes skills and perks>just skills and perks. There was nothing wrong with attributes, just people that didn't RP and people that parrot Bethesda's silly PR. It's a known fact that removing it removes more variables and by extension diversity, again more simple math for anybody that can count to 100. Nothing can change the simple math of 3>2.

 

I'd have to wonder if these people even played the old games.

Edited October 31, 2012 by Enatiomorph