My thoughts on Premium - The Site - and some misc thoughts.

[zixi]

I belong to a couple of small forums where the person running it can afford the costs and does it as a hobby. If a forum like that grows then the owner won't be able to afford it and if it grows too much s/he'll need staff - that's the biggest cost. So, eventually a free forum will be hit by its own success and will have to find ways of making money. Whatever method the forum uses someone will be upset. People have stomped out of flickr at regularly intervals. People have left youtube in droves. But both sites are still there... either the users have put up with the implications or new ones can't see what the fuss is about because they never knew the old system. I paid for premium lifetime a few years ago when I was seriously ill and I wanted to make sure that a few places I cared about got some money. If I hadn't got better then Nexus would have done quite well but as HadToRegister has shown, Nexus's 'profit' from me is falling all the time I stay alive and I now think I got a bargain...

 

This site depends on very special users (mod builders) for content and the content is useless unless other people download it and respond to it... that response becomes the 'payment' to the modder if you like for the effort. flickr operated like that and so did youtube. But that doesn't pay for the site. The current issues with youtube are all about it moving from running at a loss, to making a profit. Being generous to everyone is really easy if you have magic money falling out of the sky or you can tolerate operating at a loss. However, even that can be a problem. One site I belong to uses buying through Amazon to help finance the site. Sadly, my morality forbids me to buy from Amazon so I can't join in with that bit and the site doesn't accept donations... I stay away out of embarrassment...

 

I have no idea if it's possible to be a really massive site and still retain the sense of community. The really big sites I know are communities inside of communities and I suspect it's hard for new people to join in existing communities and they probably have to bring their community with them. But whenever those sites change the way they finance themselves (and for some make a profit) they inevitably upset the people who remember what it was like when it was small. The only forums I've seen stay the same are the ones that aren't going anywhere partly because they are so esoteric that no one goes there except a handful of us... The rest have to deal with the logic of financing themselves. And yes, I have also run a forum I paid for but it was small and stayed small enough for me to run it alone and pay for it alone... Notice I talk in the past. Eventually, it was all too big a sacrifice both in terms of time and money. I really sympathise with those here who mourn what they see as a change for the worst but I also sympathise with a site trying to find ways to pay the bills. I don't know the answer. I never found one and I quit... However, I have found a way of dealing with sites I no longer 'like'. I just walk away in the knowledge that they will very likely survive with new users and people who won't walk away. But at least I feel better... Notice that flickr, youtube, gmail, Amazon are all still there! Even if I'm not part of them.

 

Apparently I joined in January 2008. There were a couple of modders here I really admired. They've long since gone. There are now a lot more modders I really admire and some new ones just starting out... So, hopefully, plus ça change; plus c'est la même chose (the more things change, the more they stay the same).

[Hellfog]

I agree with you to a point. I do believe my 1st 3rd suggestion would be a good solution to their premium issue. but this is all quality of life stuff. I view it as equal to cosmetics (except the data limit). and people will buy things just to support nexus. some will be more towards a consumer pov to where they compare the best quality to the price and see if its worth it.

 

It depends where you draw the line I suppose, which is I guess the reason why there's so many different opinions on the new download system clashing at the moment. Some people consider the old way 'essential' for a good experience on the nexus while others might consider it just 'cosmetic' as you say. Sure, people will buy premium simply to support the site, it's just that the recent up-tick in premium membership purchases is probably not a sudden outburst of goodwill by the people that just so coincides with the downgrade of the download system :laugh:

 

But anyway, more options never hurt anybody, and I do hope the staff will think of offering perks independently, kinda like they do with the supporter option already.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Hellfog

[Mixter213]

so you want different tarrifs, and when shown different tarrifs, not those tarrifs some other, unknown tarrifs that would be so much better?

 

such as what?

 

offer up some calculations of your own tarrifs that show better value for money and better distribution of the charges across all the nexus outgoings including mod author payments, stafff and infrastructure overheads and everything else that comes from running a business.

 

otherwise it's just another in a never ending series of posts from entitled users who offer nothing to the site but demand everything.

 

I'm not sure how this plays into being an opinion / thought / critique on my post. I see nothing about suggestion 1-3 nor my thought at the end. But I would appreciate clarification on what you mean by tariffs unknown tariffs and clarification on ' offer up some calculations of your own tariffs'

 

I belong to a couple of small forums where the person running it can afford the costs and does it as a hobby. If a forum like that grows then the owner won't be able to afford it and if it grows too much s/he'll need staff - that's the biggest cost. So, eventually a free forum will be hit by its own success and will have to find ways of making money. Whatever method the forum uses someone will be upset. People have stomped out of flickr at regularly intervals. People have left youtube in droves. But both sites are still there... either the users have put up with the implications or new ones can't see what the fuss is about because they never knew the old system. I paid for premium lifetime a few years ago when I was seriously ill and I wanted to make sure that a few places I cared about got some money. If I hadn't got better then Nexus would have done quite well but as HadToRegister has shown, Nexus's 'profit' from me is falling all the time I stay alive and I now think I got a bargain...

 

This site depends on very special users (mod builders) for content and the content is useless unless other people download it and respond to it... that response becomes the 'payment' to the modder if you like for the effort. flickr operated like that and so did youtube. But that doesn't pay for the site. The current issues with youtube are all about it moving from running at a loss, to making a profit. Being generous to everyone is really easy if you have magic money falling out of the sky or you can tolerate operating at a loss. However, even that can be a problem. One site I belong to uses buying through Amazon to help finance the site. Sadly, my morality forbids me to buy from Amazon so I can't join in with that bit and the site doesn't accept donations... I stay away out of embarrassment...

 

I have no idea if it's possible to be a really massive site and still retain the sense of community. The really big sites I know are communities inside of communities and I suspect it's hard for new people to join in existing communities and they probably have to bring their community with them. But whenever those sites change the way they finance themselves (and for some make a profit) they inevitably upset the people who remember what it was like when it was small. The only forums I've seen stay the same are the ones that aren't going anywhere partly because they are so esoteric that no one goes there except a handful of us... The rest have to deal with the logic of financing themselves. And yes, I have also run a forum I paid for but it was small and stayed small enough for me to run it alone and pay for it alone... Notice I talk in the past. Eventually, it was all too big a sacrifice both in terms of time and money. I really sympathise with those here who mourn what they see as a change for the worst but I also sympathise with a site trying to find ways to pay the bills. I don't know the answer. I never found one and I quit... However, I have found a way of dealing with sites I no longer 'like'. I just walk away in the knowledge that they will very likely survive with new users and people who won't walk away. But at least I feel better... Notice that flickr, youtube, gmail, Amazon are all still there! Even if I'm not part of them.

 

Apparently I joined in January 2008. There were a couple of modders here I really admired. They've long since gone. There are now a lot more modders I really admire and some new ones just starting out... So, hopefully, plus ça change; plus c'est la même chose (the more things change, the more they stay the same).

 

Understandable that Sacrifices will be made to keep a site running, and depending on what is sacrificed people will leave. people will stay. and then you'll have the extremist on either end. thats why I suggest no. 1 and 3. so that overrall its a better experience without sacrificing much of anything.

 

 

I agree with you to a point. I do believe my 1st 3rd suggestion would be a good solution to their premium issue. but this is all quality of life stuff. I view it as equal to cosmetics (except the data limit). and people will buy things just to support nexus. some will be more towards a consumer pov to where they compare the best quality to the price and see if its worth it.

 

It depends where you draw the line I suppose, which is I guess the reason why there's so many different opinions on the new download system clashing at the moment. Some people consider the old way 'essential' for a good experience on the nexus while others might consider it just 'cosmetic' as you say. Sure, people will buy premium simply to support the site, it's just that the recent up-tick in premium membership purchases is probably not a sudden outburst of goodwill by the people that just so coincides with the downgrade of the download system :laugh:

 

But anyway, more options never hurt anybody, and I do hope the staff will think of offering perks independently, kinda like they do with the supporter option already.

 

There are parts of the old way which are essential, suggestion 3 is a good example for this explanation. The month to month payment will add up more and more (which is fine if all you wanna do is donate) but to those that can't afford the full payment. it may become a i'll just get 1 month for the months im using it. but with my suggestion. you wouldn't be restricted to time based subscription, you would buy packages or perks. to which would then last forever. ie you can buy ad-free (as some people thats all they want) some could buy unlimited bit-rate. some could buy the supporter role which is what it is now. and some could buy premium role, which would be what it is now.

[Ironlion45]

Nexus is a platform. It's a digital distribution method. That's it. None of the stuff on offer here is created by or owned by Nexus. Content is generated by the users, traffic is generated by the users after the content created by other users. Making it harder for users to access the content is nexus shooting themselves in the foot, long-term. It reduces the appeal of using Nexus, and fundamentally reduces the value of the thing that you're trying to sell.

If it's too much of a pain to get the content, people will go elsewhere. Yeah, bandwidth isn't cheap...but this isn't the way I don't think.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Ironlion45

[Arthmoor]

If it's too much of a pain to get the content, people will go elsewhere. Yeah, bandwidth isn't cheap...but this isn't the way I don't think.

This also assumes there's an "elsewhere" to go to though. For pretty much all of the games here, there exist no other viable alternatives. The only exceptions being Skyrim SE and Fallout 4, which have large collections of stuff posted to Bethesda.net and represents one of the few viable alternatives out there for those 2 games. Anywhere else is going to run into the same issues with bandwidth costs and storage capacity and the need to have large sums of money available to pay for both.

 

Unless of course you want to go back to having to track down mods on dozens of small sites with no guarantees they'll remain online because users feel entitled to drain them dry of their monthly bandwidth allotments.

[HadToRegister]

Nexus is a platform. It's a digital distribution method. That's it. None of the stuff on offer here is created by or owned by Nexus. Content is generated by the users, traffic is generated by the users after the content created by other users. Making it harder for users to access the content is nexus shooting themselves in the foot, long-term. It reduces the appeal of using Nexus, and fundamentally reduces the value of the thing that you're trying to sell.

 

If it's too much of a pain to get the content, people will go elsewhere. Yeah, bandwidth isn't cheap...but this isn't the way I don't think.

 

 

What exactly are they losing if customers who have never paid, use an ad blocker, and never intend on ever paying, pack up and go elsewhere?

What's the actual threat there?

[Guest deleted34304850]

Nexus is a platform. It's a digital distribution method. That's it. None of the stuff on offer here is created by or owned by Nexus. Content is generated by the users, traffic is generated by the users after the content created by other users. Making it harder for users to access the content is nexus shooting themselves in the foot, long-term. It reduces the appeal of using Nexus, and fundamentally reduces the value of the thing that you're trying to sell.

 

If it's too much of a pain to get the content, people will go elsewhere. Yeah, bandwidth isn't cheap...but this isn't the way I don't think.

when you say that none of the stuff on offer is created or owned by nexus, are you including the platform itself and vortex and previously nmm? or are you just skipping over them as it kinda derails your entire premise?

also, when you say "making it harder" the 5 second delay and the one extra click can be removed very easily. its a matter of personal choice as to whether a user wants to do it or not, but the choice is there, which again, kinda makes your argument somewhat baseless.

[Mixter213]

Nexus is a platform. It's a digital distribution method. That's it. None of the stuff on offer here is created by or owned by Nexus. Content is generated by the users, traffic is generated by the users after the content created by other users. Making it harder for users to access the content is nexus shooting themselves in the foot, long-term. It reduces the appeal of using Nexus, and fundamentally reduces the value of the thing that you're trying to sell.

 

If it's too much of a pain to get the content, people will go elsewhere. Yeah, bandwidth isn't cheap...but this isn't the way I don't think.

 

 

 

If it's too much of a pain to get the content, people will go elsewhere. Yeah, bandwidth isn't cheap...but this isn't the way I don't think.

This also assumes there's an "elsewhere" to go to though. For pretty much all of the games here, there exist no other viable alternatives. The only exceptions being Skyrim SE and Fallout 4, which have large collections of stuff posted to Bethesda.net and represents one of the few viable alternatives out there for those 2 games. Anywhere else is going to run into the same issues with bandwidth costs and storage capacity and the need to have large sums of money available to pay for both.

 

Unless of course you want to go back to having to track down mods on dozens of small sites with no guarantees they'll remain online because users feel entitled to drain them dry of their monthly bandwidth allotments.

 

 

 

 

Nexus is a platform. It's a digital distribution method. That's it. None of the stuff on offer here is created by or owned by Nexus. Content is generated by the users, traffic is generated by the users after the content created by other users. Making it harder for users to access the content is nexus shooting themselves in the foot, long-term. It reduces the appeal of using Nexus, and fundamentally reduces the value of the thing that you're trying to sell.

 

If it's too much of a pain to get the content, people will go elsewhere. Yeah, bandwidth isn't cheap...but this isn't the way I don't think.

 

 

What exactly are they losing if customers who have never paid, use an ad blocker, and never intend on ever paying, pack up and go elsewhere?

What's the actual threat there?

 

 

 

 

Nexus is a platform. It's a digital distribution method. That's it. None of the stuff on offer here is created by or owned by Nexus. Content is generated by the users, traffic is generated by the users after the content created by other users. Making it harder for users to access the content is nexus shooting themselves in the foot, long-term. It reduces the appeal of using Nexus, and fundamentally reduces the value of the thing that you're trying to sell.

 

If it's too much of a pain to get the content, people will go elsewhere. Yeah, bandwidth isn't cheap...but this isn't the way I don't think.

when you say that none of the stuff on offer is created or owned by nexus, are you including the platform itself and vortex and previously nmm? or are you just skipping over them as it kinda derails your entire premise?

also, when you say "making it harder" the 5 second delay and the one extra click can be removed very easily. its a matter of personal choice as to whether a user wants to do it or not, but the choice is there, which again, kinda makes your argument somewhat baseless.

 

 

Before this goes on a more tangent. I would like to remind everybody that this isn't a thread to rant / reply to rant about current events / opinions around nexus.

 

I would love to hear your opinions on my suggestions. Or better yet your own suggestions. but please do keep it civil and on topic

 

Edited December 26, 2019 by Mixter213

[zixi]

I shall do even more sympathy... Maybe I'm not seeing the issue because I paid for premium while I wasn't sure how much life I had left and I wanted to say 'thank you'. But in comparison with other sites *I know* life time premium is really cheap here and I can't believe how cheap it is to get rid of ads. I understand that if you don't have the money then however cheap it is, it's too expensive but I keep going back to how will it be paid for and how can you 'persuade' people that paying premium is worth it? The same problem existed with flickr and youtube. I paid for flickr for years because I liked it (notice use of past tense). It wasn't about what I got out of it , it was about supporting something I liked.

 

I can think of lots of solutions but they're complex and lack the elegance of this solution... I do really, really sympathise. I sympathise too that you don't want people to rant... You sound like a really nice person! But I'm afraid that ranting is something they seem to have to do when you put them on social networks... :confused: I don't have an answer for that one either...

 

I guess if Nexus ever reaches the point that I can no longer be associated then I'll do what I've done with every other site that no longer matches my morality - I'll walk away... and that's really my only suggestion... And I sympathise if that's not possible either!

[Arthmoor]

I would love to hear your opinions on my suggestions. Or better yet your own suggestions. but please do keep it civil and on topic

The solution is simple. Pony up some bucks. I don't see why there needs to be any argument at all about what Nexus is doing, which is no different from a metric buttload of other sites do in order to gain subscription support.

 

Keep in mind that such methods would not be used if they were not effective.