Strange bug with enemy respawns

[StormWolf01]

I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not. I dunno enough about how the REspawn works in this game. The spawners that I've always worked with, checked to see if there was an active NPC that it was set to spawn. If 1, then do nothing. If 0, then create a new mobile from the file in the game, not a file in the save.

Oooh. I wonder if the save game is causing the issue, transferring the condition to the mobile as soon as it spawns?

 

I guess, one way to test that theory, would be to get the ID numbers for several of the mobs. Move to a different area to test, and use the placeatme xxxxxx (the id number for the mob) which will bring them to you in their current condition.

I mean, I highly doubt that's a fix, but it would test the theory, maybe?

[AeonsLegend]

I'm now playing a melee character fighting "unarmed". I just found out that the "paralyzing" part of Rank 5 of the "Iron Fist" perk has the same bug. The paralyzing part isn't as long as the time enemies are frozen by weapons. It's only a few seconds. So this perk also messes up your game permanently...

[StormWolf01]

With all of the weapons that I've been testing out lately, I've noticed that yeah... conditions Do transfer over to the new spawns. At least they do on the Shooting Range. Which will respawn from 0.5 to 5 seconds. I've noticed that a lot of the respawns will spawn crippled if the NPC had been crippled before it died. But then correct themselves, usually, after a short bit of time. However, they will still continue to respawn crippled, for quite a while. Pretty much until I log out.

That is a really messed up spawning system!

[SKKmods]

I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not. I dunno enough about how the REspawn works in this game.

 

The actors described in this thread (Gunners in the Plaza) are hand placed actors, not scripted spawns which behave differently.

 

Hand placed non unique actors are actually triggers that automatically populate a new actor ObjectReference in the running world from an ActorBase form when that cell activates within the active uGridsToLoad around the player. In the creation kit world preview they are large letter "M"s.

That created ObjectReference is persistent until it dies, and any quest aliases/scripts release it, and iHoursToClearCorpses (or associated) timer(s) elapse. Then the game engine will disable and delete the corpse.

If there is no ObjectReference (live or dead) associated with a hand placed actor trigger it will populate a new ObjectReference in the running world from an ActorBase form if the local cell/encounter zone is not flagged "No Respawn" and iHoursToRespawnCell/Cleared time passes and the cell is activated by player proximity.

There is ZERO way for the attributes of an actor ObjectReference to infect a static ActorBase form to affect the new generated actor.

For scripted spawns like Random Encounters all bets are off as respawning on state/time is totally flexible and the script can copy attributes from a dead actor to apply on a new spawn. Although there are a total of ZERO base game scripts that do this.

[HeyYou]

 

I'm not entirely sure if that's true or not. I dunno enough about how the REspawn works in this game.

 

The actors described in this thread (Gunners in the Plaza) are hand placed actors, not scripted spawns which behave differently.

 

Hand placed non unique actors are actually triggers that automatically populate a new actor ObjectReference in the running world from an ActorBase form when that cell activates within the active uGridsToLoad around the player. In the creation kit world preview they are large letter "M"s.

That created ObjectReference is persistent until it dies, and any quest aliases/scripts release it, and iHoursToClearCorpses (or associated) timer(s) elapse. Then the game engine will disable and delete the corpse.

If there is no ObjectReference (live or dead) associated with a hand placed actor trigger it will populate a new ObjectReference in the running world from an ActorBase form if the local cell/encounter zone is not flagged "No Respawn" and iHoursToRespawnCell/Cleared time passes and the cell is activated by player proximity.

There is ZERO way for the attributes of an actor ObjectReference to infect a static ActorBase form to affect the new generated actor.

For scripted spawns like Random Encounters all bets are off as respawning on state/time is totally flexible and the script can copy attributes from a dead actor to apply on a new spawn. Although there are a total of ZERO base game scripts that do this.

 

So why do we end up with paralyzed respawns, etc.?

[SKKmods]

If it is carrying effects forward it is likely to be the same actor ObjectReference, not a new spawned actor ObjectReference. So what do you actually mean by "respawn" ?

 

(a) The original actor ObjectReference reinstatiated as it has not been released for cleanup which will carry effects forward, or;

 

(b) A new actor ObjectReference which is unlikely to carry effects forward.

 

The often misused term "persistence" complicates this as an in game ObjectReference can be:

 

(1) Persistent held in game

(2) Persistent released for cleanup

(3) Non persistent held in game

(4) Non persistent released for cleanup

 

Actor instantiation and spawn states are rather more complex than most appreciate, which is why so many spawning mods have wrecked havoc in save games.

[AeonsLegend]

If it is carrying effects forward it is likely to be the same actor ObjectReference, not a new spawned actor ObjectReference. So what do you actually mean by "respawn" ?

 

(a) The original actor ObjectReference reinstatiated as it has not been released for cleanup which will carry effects forward, or;

 

(b) A new actor ObjectReference which is unlikely to carry effects forward.

 

The often misused term "persistence" complicates this as an in game ObjectReference can be:

 

(1) Persistent held in game

(2) Persistent released for cleanup

(3) Non persistent held in game

(4) Non persistent released for cleanup

 

Actor instantiation and spawn states are rather more complex than most appreciate, which is why so many spawning mods have wrecked havoc in save games.

By respawn I mean first killing all enemies in a location, waiting until they respawn and then revisit the area. The bug then pops up with the new enemies and this is permanent. I can have them respawn any number of times and they will always be frozen or paralyzed. I've never had this with random encounters. Only ever with fixed spawns in an area. For instance mirelurks that always inhabit an area such as near Salem or Quincy will always be paralyzed or frozen after being affected by it at least once. This became even more apparant with the enemy spawns in the mod Fusion City Rising that has a large number of enemies spawn near the entrance. These enemies respawn after a time. I had a freezing Gatling laser with Overdrive active and froze ALL of them. Next time I revisited they all respawned and did not move. Not any number of times afterwards.

Like I said your logic is off. This actually only happens to fixed spawns like the gunners at gunner plaza, not random encounters.

[SKKmods]

It is unlikely you are seeing new actor "spawns" because effects from previous actors do not transfer between them.

 

But, as you seem to know best, good luck with that.

[AeonsLegend]

It is unlikely you are seeing new actor "spawns" because effects from previous actors do not transfer between them.

 

But, as you seem to know best, good luck with that.

All I'm saying is that in fixed spawns they bug out. I have no idea what type of spawn it is or if is actually a new or existing actor. I can only tell you which spawns in the game it affects and that is all the fixed spawns in fixed locations in the game. You then stated that the bug is impossible for these type of actors. But I HAVE the bug and so do others. I'm confused at what you're trying to say.

[StormWolf01]

Aeons- Ok, there's several different ways to put mobs into a game. In most of the RPG or MMO type games, you have scripted items, called "spawners". These are objects that are placed onto the map, either manually in game by somebody with sufficient staff access, or via whatever tools are used to write to the program. In this case, the CK.

SKK was kind enough to remind me that pretty much All the NPCs in this game, their files are placed directly on the map, no spawner, the game itself just recreates that character where it was placed on the map, if they are set to as characters that will be replaced.

Which, is the other method that can be used by game engines for the placement of mobs.

Now, in both of these cases, the recreated mobs should be recreated directly from what their files say. In FO4, I have yet to see a character file that flags a NPC as frozen, crippled, paralyzed, etc.

So what SKK is saying, is that when they are "reappearing" with these same conditions set upon them... that they're not actually REspawning, but are the same actors, with said condition still upon them.

 

And this confuses me. The raiders that appear at the Shooting Range (this is a hidden dev room, btw) will reappear with crippled conditions, I can watch them limp into place, or Idle favoring an arm. However, the actor themselves have changed appearance and taken on a different pregenerated face from the list of faces or even been generated using different gender facial and body presets.

 

 

 

That created ObjectReference is persistent until it dies, and any quest aliases/scripts release it, and iHoursToClearCorpses (or associated) timer(s) elapse. Then the game engine will disable and delete the corpse.

So then, if I'm understanding this right... that according to this...

A) We have a script or quest that is not releasing them.

B) The timer is not running out (Highly unlikely?)

 

Thanks so much for your input SKK. You've reminded me of a few things that had slipped my mind. As well as taught me a few new things as well! As always...that is greatly appreciated! :)