Coronavirus - Is there a silver lining?

[Arneercool]

I did not bring up diversity, you did.

 

 

 

Diversity is not a strength but weakens us.

 

And be careful with the Anti Facist rhetoric, lest someone think you were a member of Antifa.

 

more deceit and lies from the first page of the playbook

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The major reason a lot of the resources we need for our industrial sector are scarce here, is because our government has made it unprofitable to produce them. We have plenty of rare earth minerals here in the US, but, the EPA has regulated them out of existence.

 

A large portion of the EPA regulations for environmental protections have been rolled back or eliminated in the past couple of years, making mineral, coal and oil exploitation pretty much wide open. Further, the US Department of the Interior and it's Bureau of Land Management was given a tonne of public lands reclaimed from eliminated National Parks, National Forests and National Monuments, which DOI and BLM then sold to private mining companies for exploitation. So is that old, tired, "but the government and the EPA won't let me ...", argument still valid?

 

Currently. Yes. It is. Various companies may now own mining rights to what was once public land, but, so far as I have been able to determine, no one is exploiting that, as yet. It's still cheaper/easier to source those materials from China..... (who is one of the VERY few producers of such.....) At one point, china was making noises about dramatically reducing exports of those materials, but, so far, they haven't gotten as tight as they were at first considering. So, so long as getting them from China is cheaper than producing them here at home, no one is going to bother producing them here.

 

And it isn't such "The EPA won't let me." as it is "The EPA has made it too expensive to be profitable."

 

The EPA and their regulations have been eliminated or reduced to the point of almost non-existent, so how is it that the EPA is still impacting the exploitation of minerals, coal, oil, an other natural resources?

 

That goes back to the whole "cheaper to buy it somewhere else, than produce it at home." And while some of the regulations have been rolled back, not all of them have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The major reason a lot of the resources we need for our industrial sector are scarce here, is because our government has made it unprofitable to produce them. We have plenty of rare earth minerals here in the US, but, the EPA has regulated them out of existence.

 

As I understand your position:

• It's cheaper to buy raw materials elsewhere because it costs too much to produce at home.
• It costs too much to mine and process the raw materials at home because of government interference.
• When the government interference is eliminated, It's still cheaper to buy the raw materials elsewhere.

So the government regulations and their impact on production costs are not the driving force when it comes to purchasing raw materials off shore.

 

Reread what I wrote. The EPA has relaxed SOME of the restrictions, but, there are still MANY in place. The EPA didn't simply dry up, and blow away, they are still there, over-regulating as usual. And yes, it is currently still cheaper to buy from China, than to produce in the US. EPA is one major driving factor there. Labor rates, and such, are another.

[Deleted92948618User]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The major reason a lot of the resources we need for our industrial sector are scarce here, is because our government has made it unprofitable to produce them. We have plenty of rare earth minerals here in the US, but, the EPA has regulated them out of existence.

 

A large portion of the EPA regulations for environmental protections have been rolled back or eliminated in the past couple of years, making mineral, coal and oil exploitation pretty much wide open. Further, the US Department of the Interior and it's Bureau of Land Management was given a tonne of public lands reclaimed from eliminated National Parks, National Forests and National Monuments, which DOI and BLM then sold to private mining companies for exploitation. So is that old, tired, "but the government and the EPA won't let me ...", argument still valid?

 

Currently. Yes. It is. Various companies may now own mining rights to what was once public land, but, so far as I have been able to determine, no one is exploiting that, as yet. It's still cheaper/easier to source those materials from China..... (who is one of the VERY few producers of such.....) At one point, china was making noises about dramatically reducing exports of those materials, but, so far, they haven't gotten as tight as they were at first considering. So, so long as getting them from China is cheaper than producing them here at home, no one is going to bother producing them here.

 

And it isn't such "The EPA won't let me." as it is "The EPA has made it too expensive to be profitable."

 

The EPA and their regulations have been eliminated or reduced to the point of almost non-existent, so how is it that the EPA is still impacting the exploitation of minerals, coal, oil, an other natural resources?

 

That goes back to the whole "cheaper to buy it somewhere else, than produce it at home." And while some of the regulations have been rolled back, not all of them have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The major reason a lot of the resources we need for our industrial sector are scarce here, is because our government has made it unprofitable to produce them. We have plenty of rare earth minerals here in the US, but, the EPA has regulated them out of existence.

 

As I understand your position:

• It's cheaper to buy raw materials elsewhere because it costs too much to produce at home.
• It costs too much to mine and process the raw materials at home because of government interference.
• When the government interference is eliminated, It's still cheaper to buy the raw materials elsewhere.

So the government regulations and their impact on production costs are not the driving force when it comes to purchasing raw materials off shore.

 

Reread what I wrote. The EPA has relaxed SOME of the restrictions, but, there are still MANY in place. The EPA didn't simply dry up, and blow away, they are still there, over-regulating as usual. And yes, it is currently still cheaper to buy from China, than to produce in the US. EPA is one major driving factor there. Labor rates, and such, are another.

 

 

All of the restrictions on tailing maintenance and runoff, heavy metal runoff, ground and surface water contamination, open pit recovery, well integrity, well spillage and containment, pumping emissions, and sensitive environment protection have all been eliminated or watered down to the point of non-existent. And all the punitive language in EPA regulations has been declared null and void. So which regulations are left?

[MrJoseCuervo]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The major reason a lot of the resources we need for our industrial sector are scarce here, is because our government has made it unprofitable to produce them. We have plenty of rare earth minerals here in the US, but, the EPA has regulated them out of existence.

 

A large portion of the EPA regulations for environmental protections have been rolled back or eliminated in the past couple of years, making mineral, coal and oil exploitation pretty much wide open. Further, the US Department of the Interior and it's Bureau of Land Management was given a tonne of public lands reclaimed from eliminated National Parks, National Forests and National Monuments, which DOI and BLM then sold to private mining companies for exploitation. So is that old, tired, "but the government and the EPA won't let me ...", argument still valid?

 

Currently. Yes. It is. Various companies may now own mining rights to what was once public land, but, so far as I have been able to determine, no one is exploiting that, as yet. It's still cheaper/easier to source those materials from China..... (who is one of the VERY few producers of such.....) At one point, china was making noises about dramatically reducing exports of those materials, but, so far, they haven't gotten as tight as they were at first considering. So, so long as getting them from China is cheaper than producing them here at home, no one is going to bother producing them here.

 

And it isn't such "The EPA won't let me." as it is "The EPA has made it too expensive to be profitable."

 

The EPA and their regulations have been eliminated or reduced to the point of almost non-existent, so how is it that the EPA is still impacting the exploitation of minerals, coal, oil, an other natural resources?

 

That goes back to the whole "cheaper to buy it somewhere else, than produce it at home." And while some of the regulations have been rolled back, not all of them have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The major reason a lot of the resources we need for our industrial sector are scarce here, is because our government has made it unprofitable to produce them. We have plenty of rare earth minerals here in the US, but, the EPA has regulated them out of existence.

 

As I understand your position:

• It's cheaper to buy raw materials elsewhere because it costs too much to produce at home.
• It costs too much to mine and process the raw materials at home because of government interference.
• When the government interference is eliminated, It's still cheaper to buy the raw materials elsewhere.

So the government regulations and their impact on production costs are not the driving force when it comes to purchasing raw materials off shore.

 

Reread what I wrote. The EPA has relaxed SOME of the restrictions, but, there are still MANY in place. The EPA didn't simply dry up, and blow away, they are still there, over-regulating as usual. And yes, it is currently still cheaper to buy from China, than to produce in the US. EPA is one major driving factor there. Labor rates, and such, are another.

 

 

All of the restrictions on tailing maintenance and runoff, heavy metal runoff, ground and surface water contamination, open pit recovery, well integrity, well spillage and containment, pumping emissions, and sensitive environment protection have all been eliminated or watered down to the point of non-existent. And all the punitive language in EPA regulations has been declared null and void. So which regulations are left?

 

 

The rest that need to be eliminated.

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The major reason a lot of the resources we need for our industrial sector are scarce here, is because our government has made it unprofitable to produce them. We have plenty of rare earth minerals here in the US, but, the EPA has regulated them out of existence.

 

A large portion of the EPA regulations for environmental protections have been rolled back or eliminated in the past couple of years, making mineral, coal and oil exploitation pretty much wide open. Further, the US Department of the Interior and it's Bureau of Land Management was given a tonne of public lands reclaimed from eliminated National Parks, National Forests and National Monuments, which DOI and BLM then sold to private mining companies for exploitation. So is that old, tired, "but the government and the EPA won't let me ...", argument still valid?

 

Currently. Yes. It is. Various companies may now own mining rights to what was once public land, but, so far as I have been able to determine, no one is exploiting that, as yet. It's still cheaper/easier to source those materials from China..... (who is one of the VERY few producers of such.....) At one point, china was making noises about dramatically reducing exports of those materials, but, so far, they haven't gotten as tight as they were at first considering. So, so long as getting them from China is cheaper than producing them here at home, no one is going to bother producing them here.

 

And it isn't such "The EPA won't let me." as it is "The EPA has made it too expensive to be profitable."

 

The EPA and their regulations have been eliminated or reduced to the point of almost non-existent, so how is it that the EPA is still impacting the exploitation of minerals, coal, oil, an other natural resources?

 

That goes back to the whole "cheaper to buy it somewhere else, than produce it at home." And while some of the regulations have been rolled back, not all of them have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The major reason a lot of the resources we need for our industrial sector are scarce here, is because our government has made it unprofitable to produce them. We have plenty of rare earth minerals here in the US, but, the EPA has regulated them out of existence.

 

As I understand your position:

• It's cheaper to buy raw materials elsewhere because it costs too much to produce at home.
• It costs too much to mine and process the raw materials at home because of government interference.
• When the government interference is eliminated, It's still cheaper to buy the raw materials elsewhere.

So the government regulations and their impact on production costs are not the driving force when it comes to purchasing raw materials off shore.

 

Reread what I wrote. The EPA has relaxed SOME of the restrictions, but, there are still MANY in place. The EPA didn't simply dry up, and blow away, they are still there, over-regulating as usual. And yes, it is currently still cheaper to buy from China, than to produce in the US. EPA is one major driving factor there. Labor rates, and such, are another.

 

 

All of the restrictions on tailing maintenance and runoff, heavy metal runoff, ground and surface water contamination, open pit recovery, well integrity, well spillage and containment, pumping emissions, and sensitive environment protection have all been eliminated or watered down to the point of non-existent. And all the punitive language in EPA regulations has been declared null and void. So which regulations are left?

 

Ok, that covers mining. You do understand that is only the first step, right? Still need to refine it into a usable form.

[Deleted92948618User]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The major reason a lot of the resources we need for our industrial sector are scarce here, is because our government has made it unprofitable to produce them. We have plenty of rare earth minerals here in the US, but, the EPA has regulated them out of existence.

 

A large portion of the EPA regulations for environmental protections have been rolled back or eliminated in the past couple of years, making mineral, coal and oil exploitation pretty much wide open. Further, the US Department of the Interior and it's Bureau of Land Management was given a tonne of public lands reclaimed from eliminated National Parks, National Forests and National Monuments, which DOI and BLM then sold to private mining companies for exploitation. So is that old, tired, "but the government and the EPA won't let me ...", argument still valid?

 

Currently. Yes. It is. Various companies may now own mining rights to what was once public land, but, so far as I have been able to determine, no one is exploiting that, as yet. It's still cheaper/easier to source those materials from China..... (who is one of the VERY few producers of such.....) At one point, china was making noises about dramatically reducing exports of those materials, but, so far, they haven't gotten as tight as they were at first considering. So, so long as getting them from China is cheaper than producing them here at home, no one is going to bother producing them here.

 

And it isn't such "The EPA won't let me." as it is "The EPA has made it too expensive to be profitable."

 

The EPA and their regulations have been eliminated or reduced to the point of almost non-existent, so how is it that the EPA is still impacting the exploitation of minerals, coal, oil, an other natural resources?

 

That goes back to the whole "cheaper to buy it somewhere else, than produce it at home." And while some of the regulations have been rolled back, not all of them have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The major reason a lot of the resources we need for our industrial sector are scarce here, is because our government has made it unprofitable to produce them. We have plenty of rare earth minerals here in the US, but, the EPA has regulated them out of existence.

 

As I understand your position:

• It's cheaper to buy raw materials elsewhere because it costs too much to produce at home.
• It costs too much to mine and process the raw materials at home because of government interference.
• When the government interference is eliminated, It's still cheaper to buy the raw materials elsewhere.

So the government regulations and their impact on production costs are not the driving force when it comes to purchasing raw materials off shore.

 

Reread what I wrote. The EPA has relaxed SOME of the restrictions, but, there are still MANY in place. The EPA didn't simply dry up, and blow away, they are still there, over-regulating as usual. And yes, it is currently still cheaper to buy from China, than to produce in the US. EPA is one major driving factor there. Labor rates, and such, are another.

 

 

All of the restrictions on tailing maintenance and runoff, heavy metal runoff, ground and surface water contamination, open pit recovery, well integrity, well spillage and containment, pumping emissions, and sensitive environment protection have all been eliminated or watered down to the point of non-existent. And all the punitive language in EPA regulations has been declared null and void. So which regulations are left?

 

Ok, that covers mining. You do understand that is only the first step, right? Still need to refine it into a usable form.

 

 

Your assumption about what I do and do not understand says more about you and your thinking than it does about me. Consider. please, that you might not be as omniscient as your assumptions imply you believe yourself to be.

 

Now, the highlights are for processing and refining as well as mining. Also relaxed where the air quality standards, including the reduction of CO₂, CO and methane emission strictures. Hell, the administration even pressured Congress into dismantling the authorization which allowed California to implement and enforce air quality and emission standards which exceeded national standards. According to one industry joke, the only thing which is still regulated is worker flatulence.

 

And that joke was precipitated by a panel discussion which included a review the new "fast track" EPA certification process, which one pundit said consisted of "Yup, you filled out the form". Further, the panel reviewed the relaxed OSHA standards for smelter workers safety, including removing the restrictions on airborne super heated particulates, and the handling of toxic and hazardous materials my industry workers. The panel also reviewed the Department of Transportation's relaxed limitations on over-road transport of toxic waste, radioactive waste, and hazardous materials.

 

In other words, there are precious few restrictions left. The only cost which remains is human, and the labor market is so much cheaper in Asia, Africa and South America. Those labor markets are such that a worker is paid less in a year than American workers make in a fortnignt. The cost of the work being done is a third world country is a greater consideration than any government restrictions, because it means that it's cheaper to produce there and buy than to produce here. Regardless of governmental regulations.

Further, there is a distancing affect when manufactures buy their materials from foreign entities. Under current law, American industrialists cannot not be held liable for the environmental impact of the mining and processing of these materials in other countries. This distance gives the industrialists insulation form any damages which might arise from legal claims against the mining operations. The only thing which can impact the American industry is the social displeasure which can accompany American industries supporting and enabling the horrible conditions and consequences of unsafe and insane practices. But mostly, with the possible exception of blood diamonds, Americans ignore those conditions so they can have a new iPhone every year.

 

Now, with all of that said, there is another concern within the industry which has some running scared. There is the very real fear that when the existing administration goes away in one or five years, that the regulations and restrictions will come flooding back, that the new limits could be even more restrictive, that the penalties for violating restrictions could be even harsher, and that the restrictions could even be made retro-active. That knowledge stops some developers in their tracks. They know full well that, should they go forging ahead, any follow-on administration would in all likelyhood be indifferent to any pleas for forgiveness from those industrialists who deliberately "mess the nest", as it were.

 

So what is stopping a host of mining and drilling industrialists, isn't truly the regulations or even the cost of production by third world countries. It is the knowledge that what they do is potentially harmful to the environment and to humanity. They know that they can and, probably, will be held accountable for any actions they take which could be perceived as "crimes" in the broader sense. Simply put, they fear that a more enlightened and responsible successor administrations might put them in jail.

 

 

 

 

[MrJoseCuervo]

As long as the major polluters ignore these accords it is pointless. A self imposed economic suicide for no reason. Besides, Human caused climate change is an unproven hypothesis. Much like how politicians are forced to bow down to the cult of BLM, Scientists are coerced into putting their seal of approval on the Climate Change theory for fear of losing funding and positions in liberal controlled universities. Temperature on earth has never been static and never will be, That is fact. We have had mass extinctions and we will again. There is nothing to be done other than to prepare for them.

 

Its a scam.

[Deleted92948618User]

And with that, I will bow out. I will not discuss superstitions and conspiracy theories.

The world is not flat. We did land a man on the moon. Evolution is real and ongoing. The world is 4.5 billion year old. Man made global warming is real. Cow farts and belches do not emit as much methane as leaking oil wells and natural gas pumping stations. There has to be intelligent life somewhere in the cosmos, because, given the previous post, it is demonstrable that it does not exist on this planet.

[MrJoseCuervo]

Ice cores are not a conspiracy theory...just an inconvenient truth.

[HeyYou]

It's patently obvious that the world can't possibly be flat..... If it were, cats would have knocked everything off the edge by now.