How Does the Game Engine Handle Scrapping?

[jayrichardm]

When I go through and do a lot of scrapping to a settlement, how does the system handle all the scrapped stuff? When I fast travel back to that location does the game have to reset the location to it's original form and then go through and remove all the things I've scrapped and remake all of the changes I've made, or is it handled in a way that isn't so CPU intensive?

 

When I start a new game I've always gone through and scrapped the hell out of Sanctuary and really clean it up. While that was never a problem on the Xbox I'm wondering if that could be the cause of a lot of CTDs on the PC.

[HeyYou]

Just scrapping stuff shouldn't cause any trouble. If you use a scrapping mod though, that *might* be problematic. (some moreso than others....) If you are crashing consistently in one area..... check and see what mods you are running that affect that area. Go from there.

[jayrichardm]

Just scrapping stuff shouldn't cause any trouble. If you use a scrapping mod though, that *might* be problematic. (some moreso than others....) If you are crashing consistently in one area..... check and see what mods you are running that affect that area. Go from there.

Thanks for responding. I use a couple of scrapping mods. I don't think the two that I use on the PC break precombinds, I know one of those I uses on the Xbox does break precombinds. But there shouldn't be any precombinds in Sanctuary. I'm still hoping somebody out there can answer my question.

[JimmyRJump]

Precombines are everywhere, also in Sanctuary. Precombines makes it so that large objects are combined to one whole instead of dozens of small objects that can be scrapped separately. This is done to alleviate the strain on the GPU because it only has to load one big object instead of several smaller ones. But this means that certain objects can't be scrapped, or they are scrapped completely. In vanilla, most of the intact houses in Sanctuary cannot be scrapped without a scrap mod.

 

I've been using Spring Cleaning since it was released and never had any problems with it. Be aware that using several mods that tinker with precombines will eliminate one another's effects and precombines will be disabled or enabled again, depending on your settings in the Fallout4.ini.

[LarannKiar]

It depends on what kind of object it is. If it's created in your save game (their RefID starts with FF), then it will be deleted immediatelly. (You'll get some raw resources like "Steel" or "Aluminium" but that's totally different).

 

Base objects are added by mods or in the vanilla game (their RefID starts with the first two number of the .esm/.esp/.esl file in your load order). As far as I know, after scrapping them these objects will act like if they were not exist. The game won't load them. They can't be actually "deleted" though.. they are in a plugin or in Fallout4.esm and not in your save. The game writes in your save that these objects are no longer needed.

 

Scrapping can be harmful.. but it depends on the circumstances (the actual object, attached scripts..).

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong..

Edited January 3, 2021 by LarannKiar

[JimmyRJump]

It depends on what kind of object it is. If it's created in your save game (their RefID starts with FF), then it will be deleted immediatelly. (You'll get some raw resources like "Steel" or "Aluminium" but that's totally different).

 

Base objects are added by mods or in the vanilla game (their RefID starts with the first two number of the .esm/.esp/.esl file in your load order). As far as I know, after scrapping them these objects will act like if they were not exist. The game won't load them. They can't be actually "deleted" though.. they are in a plugin or in Fallout4.esm and not in your save. The game writes in your save that these objects are no longer needed.

 

Scrapping can be harmful.. but it depends on the circumstances (the actual object, attached scripts..).

 

Please correct me if I'm wrong..

As long as you don't alter the game's setting for pre-combined objects, most objects outside standard settlements (and a lot inside, too) are being made part of the background. As such, using console commands like 'markfordelete' or 'deactivate' will make the object disappear, along with a large chunk of said background, leaving you with a permanent hole in the game. Mostly however, without a scrapping mod most non-scrappable objects cannot be selected in console mode because they don't show their reference I.D. and the game won't allow you to delete the whole of the surrounding world since that would be catastrophic to the game.

 

Using a scrap mod that changes the pre-combined objects setting allows you to scrap things of which the layers were pried loose from the background. This usually has no consequences, except for LOD flicker when it concerns items that weren't supposed to be scrapped and the game still tries to load said items after removing them. This results in a flicker because the game doesn't render backgrounds that are supposed to sit behind an item, again temporarily showing a hole in the game on and offwhere te scrapped object used to be. Strangely, this only happens when approaching the area with the scrapped object from a certain angle/height.

[jayrichardm]

Precombines are everywhere, also in Sanctuary. Precombines makes it so that large objects are combined to one whole instead of dozens of small objects that can be scrapped separately. This is done to alleviate the strain on the GPU because it only has to load one big object instead of several smaller ones. But this means that certain objects can't be scrapped, or they are scrapped completely. In vanilla, most of the intact houses in Sanctuary cannot be scrapped without a scrap mod.

 

I've been using Spring Cleaning since it was released and never had any problems with it. Be aware that using several mods that tinker with precombines will eliminate one another's effects and precombines will be disabled or enabled again, depending on your settings in the Fallout4.ini.

I know what precombinds are and what they are for, Jimmy. It's my understanding that Bethesda didn't put precombinds in settlements because they knew they would be scrapped there. Of course that doesn't include the extended borders that you get with some mods. But what you are saying makes sense, if it isn't scrapable without a scrap mod, it might be a precombined even in a settlement.

 

Do you know if the Scrap Everything mod breaks precombinds? Since there is a lot of stuff that it doesn't scrap I'm guessing that it doesn't. There is no way that I know of to tell if something that I'm about to scrap is part of a precombined or not.

 

I went on a scrapping binge in Lexington, over through Malden and ending at the National Guard Training Yard: every car, lamp post, guard rail and ghoul along the way. After I was done I noticed It had become much harder to get into my Headquarters at Murkwater Construction without getting a CTD. That almost never happened before. I always thought that excessive scrapping would only affect the area, the cells where the scrapping took place, not on the other side of the map. I don't understand how the game deals with and loads or not loads scrapped stuff. That is why I asked the question that I asked.

 

I'll check out that Spring Cleaning mod. I take it that you use it because it doesn't break precombinds.

[JimmyRJump]

Every item has a reference I.D. Even items that normally aren't supposed to be scrapped because they're outside a settlement's build perimeter. Those items are used all over the game and scrapping them can probably lead to the game getting confused where to load and not to load certain items. That's a wild guess, mind.

[jayrichardm]

Every item has a reference I.D. Even items that normally aren't supposed to be scrapped because they're outside a settlement's build perimeter. Those items are used all over the game and scrapping them can probably lead to the game getting confused where to load and not to load certain items. That's a wild guess, mind.

I think I understand. That reference ID is used all over the map. Say I scrap a common lamp post and that reference ID is marked as deleted. The game tracks that I scrapped a lamp post. But it has to also track which lamp post, the specific one, it's location, or all of the lamp posts all over the map would be gone. If it is tracking a specific lamp post, it shouldn't be getting confused when it loads other lamp posts.

 

I'm beginning to suspect that I have it all wrong. That all scrapping everywhere puts a bigger and bigger load burden on the PC to load any location, and the PC is set to CTD if it takes too long to load a location so that it doesn't get stuck in a loop. If that's the case it would explain a lot of what I'm seeing. It would explain why I can do all of these same things on an Xbox without it crashing, because the Xbox doesn't care how long it takes to load. And why one of the most powerful PCs on the market today CTDs when fast traveling to Sanctuary when there are only 35 settlers there.

[JimmyRJump]

 

Every item has a reference I.D. Even items that normally aren't supposed to be scrapped because they're outside a settlement's build perimeter. Those items are used all over the game and scrapping them can probably lead to the game getting confused where to load and not to load certain items. That's a wild guess, mind.

I think I understand. That reference ID is used all over the map. Say I scrap a common lamp post and that reference ID is marked as deleted. The game tracks that I scrapped a lamp post. But it has to also track which lamp post, the specific one, it's location, or all of the lamp posts all over the map would be gone. If it is tracking a specific lamp post, it shouldn't be getting confused when it loads other lamp posts.

 

I'm beginning to suspect that I have it all wrong. That all scrapping everywhere puts a bigger and bigger load burden on the PC to load any location, and the PC is set to CTD if it takes too long to load a location so that it doesn't get stuck in a loop. If that's the case it would explain a lot of what I'm seeing. It would explain why I can do all of these same things on an Xbox without it crashing, because the Xbox doesn't care how long it takes to load. And why one of the most powerful PCs on the market today CTDs when fast traveling to Sanctuary when there are only 35 settlers there.

 

It's not that scrapping per sé puts a bigger strain on the loading of assets/items, it's that scrapping CAN (but hasn't to) get the game's calculations of what to load where in a knot. In fact, it's not the scrapping of items that can make things go awry, but the short-sighted naming of items by Bethesda (or whomever developed the game) is what throws a spanner in the works. They should have, first of all, divided areas into different name protocols (now, everything basic is named 'commonwealth', even when you're in Nuka World or Far harbor) and add letters to an item's reference I.D. so that there's no confusion about where this individual item is at. I must also add that most of what I write here is based on recollections I have from discussions I had with Tarsis (developer of the original and still best mod for the Red Rockets Settlement) about how or why some settlements showed as 'Commonwealth' entry instead of the settlement's regular name. I've never made a mod in my rocky existence and most of what I say is based on my own idea of what should be logical, but I've found out that a lot of folk who work in game development don't always (read: most of the time) follow that same logic.

 

Things would (or could) have been so much easier if items in Far Harbor would have had a FH extensions and items in the Glowing Sea would have had GS added to the reference I.D., just for search sake in their own developers console. But instead the developers chose to use a simple (simplistic) folder structure where the uppermost folder is 'Commonwealth' and everything else is subordinate to it because every item besides the basic layer (sky, rivers, mountains, clouds, birds, etc) is situated in that 'Commonwealth'. Of cousre, the developers of the basic game weren't aware there was content to be added, content which would take place in/on parts of the map that would also be added and would be named differently from the basic map. Imagine fifteen or twenty people working on assets to be added to Far Harbor, while the assets they're working on need to be added to the 'Commonwealth' map and that 'Commonwealth' map needs to be split-up in three parts, two of which will be named differently (Far Harbor and Nuka World) and everything needs te be integrated seamlessly without changing the overall structure. No wonder there's errors here and there and also no wonder the game's engine sometimes runs circles until it gets so dizzy it just screams "sort it out yerself" and dies on you.

 

I've ran the game with around seven-hundred (700) mods (about 239 esp and ESM plugs; the rest esp mods converted to esl and pure texture mods) with only the occasional CTD. Which is to be expected, of course.