The Creepy Cull of Female Protagonists

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@jim_ uk

 

1. where are you getting this info?

2. what exactly is box art, compared to being plastered all over the trailers, demos, and previews.

3. people only care about box art for 30 minutes before it becomes just another picture (unless it causes controversy)

4. the cover is supposed to show what best will be most appealing, the reason for not showing a female character could be because it just doesn't seem interesting or relevant.

5. there are such a thing as alternate covers (BUT THOSE ARE HIDDEN AND YOU HAVE TO LOOK FOR THEM AND NAG, NAG, NAG!) true, but at least they exist.

 

Advertising is all about what will make someone want to pick up a game if they know nothing about it. And For some reason, the people in charge just go with what has been proven to work, and occasionally take a risk. (I'm pretty sure there a brief debate over the flag burning in the bioshock cover.)

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@vagrant0

 

Twilight isn't exactly a "shining example of a strong female lead". actually i'm surprised you ignored "The Hunger Games, and "Divergent", those are way better examples of a female being both a leader, and a competent and engaging main character.

 

People with more than half a brain (like us. ((I.E a lot of people on this site)) have those shows, and by extension anything else that says "oh, this is how people act all the time and you should stereotype them like this", listed so deep on their mental blacklist that they forget they even exist.

 

YOU DON'T HAVE, TO DO A D*#N THING, ANYONE TELLS YOU. stop saying you've lost faith in humanity, each one of us is a freaking unique individual, it just so happens that were ruled by people who hate change.

 

Finally for the game industry, DO NOT, just blame them, HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEXUS! The most downloaded mods on this site, are the HUNDREDS of nudity or sex mods that FANS have made (weather they be professional or not.)

 

As the old saying goes, "If you can't do something right, do it your self." I.E. make your own d#*n game.

[Vagrant0]

@vagrant0

 

Twilight isn't exactly a "shining example of a strong female lead". actually i'm surprised you ignored "The Hunger Games, and "Divergent", those are way better examples of a female being both a leader, and a competent and engaging main character.

 

That was essentially my point. Twilight is about the benchmark of utterly pandering crap aimed at a female audience, and women all over ate it up like candy. It was a book and a movie which generated as much money as it did primarily because there is such a vast and mostly untouched market that was ready to jump on the first thing that was actually targeted toward them. Hunger Games is better, both from a writing standpoint as well as being better and more empowering characters, but you also didn't have people standing in line over and over again to keep watching it in the theaters. You also don't have sequel after sequel being made despite everyone else pretty much not caring any more (they got their shirtless teenage boys running around already).

[Lisnpuppy]

@vagrant0

 

Twilight isn't exactly a "shining example of a strong female lead". actually i'm surprised you ignored "The Hunger Games, and "Divergent", those are way better examples of a female being both a leader, and a competent and engaging main character.

 

People with more than half a brain (like us. ((I.E a lot of people on this site)) have those shows, and by extension anything else that says "oh, this is how people act all the time and you should stereotype them like this", listed so deep on their mental blacklist that they forget they even exist.

 

YOU DON'T HAVE, TO DO A D*#N THING, ANYONE TELLS YOU. stop saying you've lost faith in humanity, each one of us is a freaking unique individual, it just so happens that were ruled by people who hate change.

 

Finally for the game industry, DO NOT, just blame them, HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEXUS! The most downloaded mods on this site, are the HUNDREDS of nudity or sex mods that FANS have made (weather they be professional or not.)

 

As the old saying goes, "If you can't do something right, do it your self." I.E. make your own d#*n game.

I strongly suggest you please take a deep breath. Though I am sure it was not your intent, your post are becoming very close to personal attacks and though we give a relatively wide berth to activity here I would ask you to keep to the subject at hand and not have profanity-laced post which are coming across as personally aggressive. This forum still must follow the Forum Rules and ToS of this site. Thank you.~Lisnpuppy

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Though I am sure it was not your intent, your post are becoming very close to personal attacks and though we give a relatively wide berth to activity here I would ask you to keep to the subject at hand and not have profanity-laced post which are coming across as personally aggressive.

 

Sorry, I was thinking that I was pushing it a bit but I felt that I wasn't being understood properly. Thank you for putting a comment here, insted of filing a warning on I profile. In the future I will try to hold back a bit and not use caps, or swearing, or profanity.

[kvnchrist]

It's a marketing ploy directed at those who can not see themselves as any character other than a typical alpha male stereotype by those who can't see past the bottom line nor justify themselves in pushing the envelope.

[Tidus44]

Kind of wondering why this matters. Does anyone buy a game based upon whether the main character is male or female; their skin color; how tall/short they are; how old/young; whatever? I doubt many people say, "Ohhh, I'm buying this game cause it has a .... on the box art." or "I'm buying that game cause it doesn't have a male 30 something, brown haired, brown eyed hero.".

 

Gaming companies can and will do what they want until something tells them they are not doing it right. Expecting gaming companies to change the concepts gamers have about who the hero should be in a game is about the dumbest idea I have ever heard.

Gaming companies need only give gamers what they want and expect in a game and until a majority of gamers demonstrate their preferences by the games they buy, why expect gaming companies to advocate change? Their job is to give gamers what they want so they can sell games - lots of games and make lots of money - not to be the leaders in changing social mores, advocating political correctness or gender equality.

 

What next? Game makers need to include views on marriage? Maybe on religion? How about political views? Perhaps being more sensitive about the environment and global warming? There are thousands of issues out there that could be addressed but is it the role of gaming companies to do so, and at the risk of losing money?

 

The companies are obviously doing something right given the number of games they sell - and I do not recall seeing any females on Skyrim box art, concept art or any video trailers but, it seems to have sold pretty well based upon something other than who the hero was. It obviously wasn't a huge issue with the millions who bought the game.

 

And Jim Sterling is not the social advocate one would think. He's just another gaming hack reviewer who needs to generate controversy to have people visit his web site so he can keep his job. Do you really think he cares who or what the hero is in a game?

[Vagrant0]

Kind of wondering why this matters. Does anyone buy a game based upon whether the main character is male or female; their skin color; how tall/short they are; how old/young; whatever? I doubt many people say, "Ohhh, I'm buying this game cause it has a .... on the box art." or "I'm buying that game cause it doesn't have a male 30 something, brown haired, brown eyed hero.".

Actually, yeah. There are some people out there who would have some trouble getting into a game if the character they play as is someone from an entirely different gender or nationality. That's kinda the heart of the problem. It's that whole self-identification aspect I talked about several posts ago. The most easily recognizable evidence of this phenomenon comes from RPGs and other games where the player can select a given gender. There are those who don't see any issue in it and choose freely because they happen to want to see those particular aesthetic or mechanic changes that are related to gender. Then there are those who completely and utterly refuse the idea on the grounds that it would make them uncomfortable or find it hard to relate to that character. Even in instances where story and characterization is entirely up to the player, such as MMOs, there is still a quite significant stigma related to cross-playing.

 

Where it is a factor would be store-based sales, and usually in relation to minors (or the simple minded) who don't research anything, or old people who wouldn't even know where to start. And unfortunately those are usually the first ones who would throw a fuss over anything that might challenge their current beliefs. Work in retail electronics sometime, 7/10 people don't really know what they're buying and almost choose things entirely by name (based on what is advertised) or what is on the cover. And game publishers know this.

[Ghogiel]

Finally for the game industry, DO NOT, just blame them, HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEXUS! The most downloaded mods on this site, are the HUNDREDS of nudity or sex mods that FANS have made (weather they be professional or not.)

I believe this thread is ultimately about a feminist issue. I'm not sure which they will see as the lesser of two evils.

 

Most of these mods of which you speak are the very things feminists will grimace at. Most are perpetuating the objectification of the female body to a degree that the vanilla game isn't even in the same league as.

[greywaste]

pretty respectful, non-objectified characters

 

The only blatant sexualiziation of women you see anymore is in Japanese games

Quoted for lulz and Irony

 

We may say that we want equality and for women to have some depth, but really we just click on just about anything with a hot piece of ass either featured or mentioned. So let's be honest with ourselves here... If the silent majority REALLY wanted to see a change, they wouldn't be silent, and they wouldn't be expressing their interest (clicking links, watching videos, actively searching) in those things that contradict their voiced message.

Indeedy.

 

Kind of wondering why this matters. Does anyone buy a game based upon whether the main character is male or female; their skin color; how tall/short they are; how old/young; whatever? I doubt many people say, "Ohhh, I'm buying this game cause it has a .... on the box art." or "I'm buying that game cause it doesn't have a male 30 something, brown haired, brown eyed hero.".

 

Gaming companies can and will do what they want until something tells them they are not doing it right. Expecting gaming companies to change the concepts gamers have about who the hero should be in a game is about the dumbest idea I have ever heard.

Gaming companies need only give gamers what they want and expect in a game and until a majority of gamers demonstrate their preferences by the games they buy, why expect gaming companies to advocate change? Their job is to give gamers what they want so they can sell games - lots of games and make lots of money - not to be the leaders in changing social mores, advocating political correctness or gender equality.

 

What next? Game makers need to include views on marriage? Maybe on religion? How about political views? Perhaps being more sensitive about the environment and global warming? There are thousands of issues out there that could be addressed but is it the role of gaming companies to do so, and at the risk of losing money?

 

The companies are obviously doing something right given the number of games they sell - and I do not recall seeing any females on Skyrim box art, concept art or any video trailers but, it seems to have sold pretty well based upon something other than who the hero was. It obviously wasn't a huge issue with the millions who bought the game.

 

And Jim Sterling is not the social advocate one would think. He's just another gaming hack reviewer who needs to generate controversy to have people visit his web site so he can keep his job. Do you really think he cares who or what the hero is in a game?

Pretty much my thoughts ^

 

Oh, and Jim, not any kind of judgement on my behalf ..but I know a few female gamers and a lot of feminists of varying seriousness - they would pretty much all facepalm bigtime if they saw your imageshare pics and then this thread.. just saying..