gun control - what are we waiting for ?

[DanteRedfield]

Ideas like this will never get agreed upon by talking, HeyYou is playing the meta by having a gun and xraay plays a garbage build and wants to force everyone to be weak with him but come on nobody's gonna give up their advantage like that just forget it guys

[xrayy]

i don't want to force anyone to anything. this is just stupid claiming. In your eyes i am weak. how funny. i bet i feel safer than you with your gun arsenal. and it does not help you if your neighbour uses his sniper rifle :wink: i do not define safety with counting my weapons like the nra wishes, because i do not need one for private use. it is really so simple. i just hoped to see some brain and countable content instead of nra phrases. if you chose to ignore while repeating plain stupid nra supporting childish phrases (translated: i need my weapon and it is my right - period!) all the time it is somehow difficult to fill this debate with valuable content and i'm fully aware of this problem.

[DanteRedfield]

Yeah yeah nra blah blah whatever f*#@ those guys, the idea of having a gun doesn't belong to any organization and no you don't feel safe at all you want to take everyone's guns away. And if you do feel so safe why did you even start this whole thread

[HeyYou]

i don't want to force anyone to anything. this is just stupid claiming. In your eyes i am weak. how funny. i bet i feel safer than you with your gun arsenal. and it does not help you if your neighbour uses his sniper rifle :wink: i do not define safety with counting my weapons like the nra wishes, because i do not need one for private use. it is really so simple. i just hoped to see some brain and countable content instead of nra phrases. if you chose to ignore while repeating plain stupid nra supporting childish phrases (translated: i need my weapon and it is my right - period!) all the time it is somehow difficult to fill this debate with valuable content and i'm fully aware of this problem.

You feel safe? You realize, that is just an illusion. Right? So, what do you do if you are threatened? Someone breaks into your home? Tries to steal your car? Robs you on the street? Do you just meekly roll over, and let them do whatever they want? Do you stand up to them? Or, do you expect someone else to do that for you? Ever had anyone in your family assaulted? You personally?

 

Do you think if the NRA disappeared today, anything would change here? (hint: No, it wouldn't) Do you think the NRA is the ONLY organization the promotes gun ownership? (responsible gun ownership, that is.) Do you think every gun-owner is a member of the NRA? Sends them money?

 

Police do not prevent crime. They react to it. Where I live, the police could not get here in time to do anything, other than clean up the mess after the fact. If I want to be safe, and keep my family safe, that is MY responsibility. Not the police, not the government, not my neighbors, MINE. Pretending it isn't, is just denying reality. (not to mention I need to address the occasional critter that needs to be removed from the property....)

 

So, why is this so important to you, if you 'feel safe', and live in another country? What makes it your concern? It doesn't affect you in any way, shape, or form. Or do you just want to bash americans? That seems to be a popular passtime in some european countries......

[xrayy]

you guys should read your childish way to argue. are you really grown ups ? are you really unable to get the message of what i say ? and if sadly not - why do you ask seriously me why it is important for me to feel safe ? is isn't and it never was - apart from your crude fantasy.

you claim things out of your pure fantasy. it doesn't matter in my country because it is common to feel safe without being a weapon owner and collect a weapon and ammunition arsenal. and i have better and more useful things to do than to cope with potentially harmful weapons and their sideeffects.

the only ones who argued with safety and "it is my right to..." were you the whole time. check your posts.

and i do not bash any americans if they present arguments instead of childish nra phrases. if you like to bash yourself with repeated non arguments it is on you to change that. and if you try to tell that an american with no weapon is not an american you are telling me just crude stuff - nothing else. are you serious indirectly claiming that ?

only 22% of all americans own at least one weapon (some many more). all the others not owning a weapon are no americans ? dream on...

[DanteRedfield]

Taking guns from people like Perraine and HeyYou wouldn't stop a single motivated shooter but it would make all of america as unsafe as chicago and new york etc which are already gun banned cities

[HeyYou]

you guys should read your childish way to argue. are you really grown ups ? are you really unable to get the message of what i say ? and if sadly not - why do you ask seriously me why it is important for me to feel safe ? is isn't and it never was - apart from your crude fantasy.

you claim things out of your pure fantasy. it doesn't matter in my country because it is common to feel safe without being a weapon owner and collect a weapon and ammunition arsenal. and i have better and more useful things to do than to cope with potentially harmful weapons and their sideeffects.

the only ones who argued with safety and "it is my right to..." were you the whole time. check your posts.

and i do not bash any americans if they present arguments instead of childish nra phrases. if you like to bash yourself with repeated non arguments it is on you to change that. and if you try to tell that an american with no weapon is not an american you are telling me just crude stuff - nothing else. are you serious indirectly claiming that ?

only 22% of all americans own at least one weapon (some many more). all the others not owning a weapon are no americans ? dream on...

Wow. Just..... Wow.....

 

Apparently, no, I don't get your message. Unless it is something along the lines of: "Guns bad." I asked you for a solution, you didn't offer anything at all. Now, you are painting us all with a broad brush as deluded NRA adherents that don't know what makes/keeps us safe. Apparently, you don't know why you feel safe either, as you simply bypassed that question.

 

Also, your stats are off, it's more like 42% of americans own at least one gun. And that varies dramatically by state... (I think Montana is the highest, with 64% of households owning at least one gun.)

 

You say you don't wanna bash americans, yet there you are, bashing away. Insults and 'feelings', the usual liberal 'arguments'. So far, I don't think I have actually seen an 'argument' from you, just posting inaccurate information, and opinions fed to you by your liberal media. I may be brainwashed by the NRA, but, you are most certainly being brainwashed by your own media......

 

 

So, lets try another direction here. Do you think violent crime would be reduced if guns were banned in the US? Bear in mind, that given the number of guns already here, that is NEVER going to happen, and if they suddenly became illegal, a black market would instantly appear (actually, its more like 'expand', as there is already a black market for guns in the US, and every other country as well.....) to supply them to the criminals that wanted them. What's worse is, those criminals would be well aware that their potential victims were almost certainly guaranteed to be unarmed......

 

Do you think the number of suicides would decrease? Or would those that would shoot themselves, simply find a different method of ending their life?

[xrayy]

"Also, your stats are off, it's more like 42% of americans own at least one gun. And that varies dramatically by state... (I think Montana is the highest, with 64% of households owning at least one gun.)"

 

no, i don't know your source but the numbers are definiteley wrong. i hope this link helps.

 

my 22% source is from 2015 - so before inglorious trump presidency. numbers raised since then significantly. a good thing ?

 

you really do not check it - wow!

please, tell me - where do i insult americans! this is a plain wrong claim! show me literally the passage with the insult, please! you argue that liberal arguments equals insults while you are telling me about the importance of liberal weapon right for your safety! are you serious ? are you kidding ?

read this! and tell me what you think about it! liberal trash ?

 

the truth is: research has consistently shown that households with guns are actually less safe — with markedly higher risks for accidental deaths, suicides and domestic homicides.

 

violent crime will always happen all over the world - with and without guns. this is not the significant point! the collateral and statistically significant effects due to weapons are the point! they are obvious and publicly available even if you, trump and nra ignore them.

 

the question is: how many weapons are involved and how many innocent people have to die because of that? statistically it is very simple - but you repeatedly ignore that fact: civilized countries (and i would still include usa) show clear numbers on that. and the numbers for usa are really bad. showing just ignorance and instead telling me that i insult americans and that it' s good to buy more weapons for whatever stupid reason is not a solution. seems you feel better with your weapon arsenal. but statistically - no way around that - this costs innocent life as a side effect without solving any crime problem better than other civilized countries! and there is evidence for that - year by year! apart from that i personally feel better without weapons around me for no purpose! but that is not relevant here.

 

and I don't say guns are bad in general! it would be more difficult to do my job without my service weapon.

but i clearly say: guns are bad in private hands without public control and without a specified purpose or need.

 

what if a - before trustworthy - weapon owner get into alcohol or drug or family or conspriacy problems/addiction ? just some ordinary world examples leading day by day to severe disaster with weapons...

 

just an example i personally experienced. on July the 4th 1987 i was trapped in a traffic jam on golden gate bridge. reason: a truck driver shot a motorcycle driver. reason given(original radio message): he was annoyed how the biker tried to get though the jam and passed the truck.

[HeyYou]

Hhhmmm...... The stats on gun ownership vary pretty dramatically, depending on who you ask. I suspect there is some 'drift' in the numbers, as a selection of gun owners simply won't admit to anyone that they actually have one. (legally, or not.) You can't go from public records either, as 'long guns' are not required to be registered. The seller runs the background check, and if you pass, you buy a gun. End of paper trail.

 

If you look at this chart, 42% (or thereabouts) of HOUSEHOLDS have at least one gun. This chart gives a state by state breakdown of ownership. Notice that the numbers vary pretty widely, depending on population concentration in various states. (red state/blue state plays a role there as well..... some states severely restrict gun ownership, others, not so much.) Something else to consider is, these show numbers of LEGAL gun ownership...... There would be a significant jump if illegal weapons were included.

 

I wonder about the accuracy of the first chart, given how it bounces around pretty dramatically from year to year. I am REAL curious how that works.... In my mind, that should be a MUCH smoother curve, but hey, I have no clue what they based their numbers on. Also, the number of background checks submitted in recent years has skyrocketed. I seriously doubt that those are ALL current owners, purchasing another weapon. (though I would imagine the bulk of them are.)

 

As for accidental deaths.... Guns don't even make it into the top ten.

 

Sure, guns are deadly. But, so are cars.... Doctors kill somewhere between 250,000 and 450,000 people each year in the US, yet I don't hear anyone suggesting we ban doctors...... Alcohol kills around 95,000 people per year, tobacco is responsible for around 480,000 deaths per year. (just in the US, world wide, it's around 7 million.......) But, we haven't banned tobacco yet either. We tried it once with alcohol, and that didn't work out very well.

 

Assuming we would be 'safer' if guns were banned, really isn't accurate. It is impossible to simply remove all the firearms in the US. There is no way it could be done. The only thing it would accomplish is removing firearms from the law-abiding. (of course, it would create a whole new class of criminals as well, those who refused to give up their legally purchased arms.....) The criminals would still have theirs, still be able to get more, and would be emboldened by the fact that it was unlikely their victims would be armed.

 

And then we have the whole 'gun culture' of the US. THAT is something that europeans just don't seem to be able to understand. Our country was founded on that fundamental right, and we are rather reluctant to give up ANY of our rights.

[xrayy]

your numbers are houshold related. im interested in heads! and there is only one significant group of people who feel safer with weapons and owning them:

white male, around 50-60 years old, conservative or republicans, more in southern or rural areas. all other groups are lesser than 20%.

that are probably the ones who are the "real americans" you claim i insult - right ?

 

i tell you what: the statistics are clear and there would be a way to solve u.s. weapon control problem (we do not need that in europe). just face the truth and study the numbers! but not as long as people like you even publicly close their eyes living and behaving like in another century or on another planet. there is nothing to understand for me because i do not have a problem. all the problems we are talking about are related to innocent dead u.s.citizens who seem to have no lobby. all the innocent people who die day by day and with your and nra support are american people not european people! even a fundamental right can be out of date or a misinterpretation after two centuries. And if it is (in some parts) obviously only good in supporting the killing of still too many innocent people maybe a change to the better would be a good thing. i'm sure you as the special group of (probably) white conservative or republicans will not support this initiative just be able to play freely with their weapon toys while ignoring the known safety risks and the numbers of deadly incidents with weapons who speak for themselves!

mentioning the "car argument" just shows how bad and desperate your arguments are.