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Ten rules to get a mod setup with a lot of workshop & crafting mods to work

guide workshop crafting keyword cap load order help mods menus

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#1
wax2k

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After having helped a lot of users with a lot of related issues in the past weeks and getting tired of repeating the same things over and over and since in 99% of the cases, these kinds of issues happen for the same reasons, I condensed the most common ones and their causes into:



Ten rules to get a mod setup with a lot of workshop & crafting mods to work


 
 

#1:

Don't use Working Food Planters and/or older versions of SSEx / Safe SSEx prior to v3.0!

 

  • Homemaker and / or NX Pro Farming are well-maintained alternatives and don't have the issues that Working Food Planters and older versions of SSEx / Safe SSEx have and cause, including CTD and savegame corruption issues due to being made with XSnip (original SSEx & Working Food Planters) and/or incompatibilities causing missing menus due to being unmaintained and not providing SK patches (applies to all three of them). If you already built a lot of settlement objects with SSEx and want to keep using it, make sure to update it to the latest version (v3.0+), which has been fixed by Ethreon!

#2:

Know your mods and understand, what they do and how they do it!

 

  • Read and follow the descriptions, sticky posts and issue reports of the mods you use, to get information about how to install them, known incompatibilities and patches, how they add their items to the menus and other known issues. And whenever in doubt: ask the mod author!
  • Keep in mind though, that the author of one mod doesn't necessarily know and use all of the mods you use and might not know about certain incompatibilities or load order issues in specific combinations of mods. An example for that is Snap'n Build. Its author recommends to put its .esm file below all other .esm files, which in combination with Homemaker and its Greenhouse and / or Bunker Disabler might lead to a CTD in the workshop, hence why Homemaker.esm has been put below Snap'n Build.esm in the recommended load order example below.

#3:

Use the latest versions of Settlement Keywords (SK) and / or Armor and Weapon Keywords Community Resource (AWKCR) and don't allow other mods to overwrite their .esm files with older versions!

 

  • These two provide a custom "standard" set of category keywords for other mods to use. They are the necessary base for a mod setup with a lot of workshop & crafting mods, at least until a better solution to battle the keyword cap issues has been found. Make sure to get accustomed to the menu structure provided by SK, since some vanilla menus are moved. A common example for that is the Stores menu, which is moved from the main workshop menu to Resources / Stores. So read the sticky post on SK's mod page which shows the complete menu structure provided by SK and browse all menus ingame before you declare something as missing.

#4:

Use SK- / AWKCR-versions or -patches for your mods wherever applicable and / or mods, that only use vanilla categories without altering them.

 

  • When in doubt, refer to rule #2.
  • These are the settlement workshop mods that I use in conjunction with SK. When using the latest and right versions, installing them correctly and making the right choices during installation and applying the correct load order, these will work fine together:

 

Spoiler

 

#5:

Don't use mods, that add custom categories without providing a patch for SK and try to avoid mods, that still add custom keywords to the game even with their SK patches.

 

  • Try to convince their authors to provide a vanilla category version or a full SK port. When in doubt, refer to rule #2.
  • Some commonly used mods that are known to cause menu conflicts due to adding custom categories without providing SK patches are:

 

Spoiler

 

#6:

Don't use additional compatibility patches for the SK versions of two mods as long as it is not explicitly stated, that they are meant for the SK versions as well.

 

  • With SK versions of two mods, incompatibilies between them in terms of shared menu categories should already be solved. When in doubt, refer to rule #2.

#7:

Don't use multiple versions of the same mod / patch at the same time.

 

  • Self-explanatory. When in doubt, refer to rule #2.

#8:

Don't use outdated versions of your mods / patches and don't combine different versions of a mod and its patches.

 

  • Self-explanatory. When in doubt, refer to rule #2.

#9:

Don't use mods that are already part of another mod you use, unless it's explicitly recommended by the mod author in special cases.

 

#10:

Preferrably use NMM or LOOT to generally sort your load order and look for missing master files and then adjust the load order manually according to the example load order originally provided by Gambit77 (author of the excellent mod Armorsmith Extended) and tweaked by me.

 

  • The main thing here is not the individual mod order, which might differ depending on your individual mod setup and different mod versions, but the overall order sorted by mod type and for example having all workshop mods above all crafting mods! General load order rules, especially regarding mod / patch files having to be placed below their master files, still have to be applied in case they differ from this example. 

 

Spoiler

 

 
 
Following these rules should allow you to see and use all of your mods' objects in the menus. This does however NOT guarantee you to not hit the category keyword cap, due to some mods still adding their custom keywords to the game, even with their SK patches. But it should reduce the jumbling of menus / items to crafting menus only, even when having hit the cap.

 

And since I keep forgetting it and I can't edit the title to say "11 rules", I'll just put it here:

There are restricted settlements where you won't have access to all workshop menus! Boston Airport is one of them. Always try it in settlements known to be unrestricted, like Sanctuary for example!
 

 

CTD issues



The above guide / ruleset does NOT necessarily solve issues apart from menus not showing up and/or objects missing. While some CTD issues might already be solved by following the above rules, there are a lot of other, more probable causes for CTD on startup or on workshop menus, including, but not limited to:

 

  • your ini files not being set up correctly (anymore)
    • follow this advice to set up your \%userdata%\Documents\My Games\Fallout4\Fallout4Custom.ini and double-check, even if you already made that change earlier, just to make sure it didn't get reverted by Fallout's launcher or an update in the meantime.
    • remove \%installpath%\Fallout 4\data\Fallout4.ini in case you have it, since otherwise it would override your \%userdata%\Documents\My Games\Fallout4\Fallout4Custom.ini

  • having placed mods / patches above the master file(s) they are referring to or not even having installed / enabled the master file(s) at all
    • check and fix your load order. NMM shows these files in orange / red and LOOT will sort them automatically. Make sure to still apply the general mod type order shown in the load order example above afterwards.

  • not having installed the files in \meshes and subfolders of a mod to \%installpath%\Fallout 4\data correctly (can also happen when using NMM and / or MO2)
    • try copying the folder and its content manually and / or try launching NMM with admin rights and then reinstalling the mods

  • having a conflicting interface mod or other custom changes to the game besides .esm / .esp files
    • remove \%installpath%\Fallout 4\data\interface\Workshop.swf in case you have it. Other .swf files might conflict as well.
    • remove any custom .ba2 files like for example \%installpath%\Fallout 4\data\widescreen.ba2 or other non-vanilla ones (the vanilla ones all look like this: Fallout4 - *.ba2).

  • using corrupted or incompatible textures (check this thread for some examples)
    • when in doubt, just rename the \%installpath%\Fallout 4\data\textures folder. If the CTD does not happen anymore and you see some pink objects or vanilla textures instead, it is a texture issue and you will have to hunt down the according texture(s).

  • having built stuff far beyond the limits of vanilla game with the help of mods and / or console commands (high amount of objects and / or building outside vanilla borders for example)
    • try it on an older save or a clean new game

  • suffering from savegame corruption due to using flawed mods on that playthrough beforehand (Working Food Planters and at least the old XSnip-version of SSEx are probable causes for this)
    • try it on a clean new game

  • suffering from general savegame bloat after playing hundreds of hours on that playthrough, which can even happen in vanilla game without ever using any mods at all, although using mods at least increases the risk for this to happen
    • try it on a clean new game

  • suffering from game file corruption
    • try verifying game cache in Steam and/or reinstalling the game

Edited by wax2k, 16 September 2017 - 07:12 PM.


#2
Ethreon

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1. Don't use SSEx and/or Working Food Planters!

 

Why not to use Working Planters "THIS MOD WAS CREATED USING FALLOUTSNIP" quoted directly from the mod description page. Why FalloutSnip is bad for F4 mods read here.

Why Ssex is bad

- adds several custom categories that will contribute towards the keyword cap

- items are missing transform (a thing telling the item icon how large/small to be in the workshop scroll list), icons, snap points, collisions etc.

- certain door in the custom doors will crash your game for some of you.

- mod was made in FalloutSnip then ported to FO4Edit. Nevertheless, the author didn't bother cleaning it up or arranging in any way (see above)

- part of the users of the mod cannot use their mods due to save corruption.

- lastly, Homemaker has all its items and with proper finish (including snap points).

 

Rest of the points are self-explanatory, or the explanation is available a click away on the mod's page.



#3
SirTwist

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1. Don't use SSEx and/or Working Food Planters!

 

Why not to use Working Planters "THIS MOD WAS CREATED USING FALLOUTSNIP" quoted directly from the mod description page. Why FalloutSnip is bad for F4 mods read here.

Why Ssex is bad

- adds several custom categories that will contribute towards the keyword cap

- items are missing transform (a thing telling the item icon how large/small to be in the workshop scroll list), icons, snap points, collisions etc.

- certain door in the custom doors will crash your game for some of you.

- mod was made in FalloutSnip then ported to FO4Edit. Nevertheless, the author didn't bother cleaning it up or arranging in any way (see above)

- part of the users of the mod cannot use their mods due to save corruption.

- lastly, Homemaker has all its items and with proper finish (including snap points).

 

Rest of the points are self-explanatory, or the explanation is available a click away on the mod's page.

Do you actually have the game Ethreon, to play? And the mod author of SSex recreated, from the ground up, his mod only using Fo4Edit. So, try again, liar.



#4
Alexmancer

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1. Don't use SSEx and/or Working Food Planters!

 

Why not to use Working Planters "THIS MOD WAS CREATED USING FALLOUTSNIP" quoted directly from the mod description page. Why FalloutSnip is bad for F4 mods read here.

Why Ssex is bad

- adds several custom categories that will contribute towards the keyword cap

- items are missing transform (a thing telling the item icon how large/small to be in the workshop scroll list), icons, snap points, collisions etc.

- certain door in the custom doors will crash your game for some of you.

- mod was made in FalloutSnip then ported to FO4Edit. Nevertheless, the author didn't bother cleaning it up or arranging in any way (see above)

- part of the users of the mod cannot use their mods due to save corruption.

- lastly, Homemaker has all its items and with proper finish (including snap points).

 

Rest of the points are self-explanatory, or the explanation is available a click away on the mod's page.

Do you actually have the game Ethreon, to play? And the mod author of SSex recreated, from the ground up, his mod only using Fo4Edit. So, try again, liar.

 

 

SSEx has not been updated since the first of December, and even then it wasn't a full update. As far as most of the community is concerned, SSEx is no longer supported. Unless the mod author comes back and updates or supports his mod, there are simply better alternatives that provide a larger range of items to use. Not only that, SSEx has been known to cause a lot of problems for people using them and doesn't really play well with a lot of newer mods. 

 

Coming here and just calling people liars without any support to your claim is just rude.


Edited by Alexmancer, 05 February 2016 - 10:13 PM.


#5
Ethreon

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Spoiler

I could say I own the game. Or maybe the game owns me.. not sure. I could even claim I start understanding how nifs work, despite never touching them. And all without help, so yea, I can say Ssex is a wreck made in haste just for the blazing glory. Don't like my opinion, move along.

 

 

Btw, here.

 

And Alex, don't bother. This individual can't understand the truth, nor accept it even if it hit him in the face. True fanatic material right there.. me and wax had enough to deal with him.



#6
SirTwist

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Directly from the mod page, and by the mod author:

Settlement Supplies Expanded (SSEx) v 2.5: Safe SSEx
AKA "why is this stuff not already in the game?"
Ever wonder why Bethesda gave us so few things to build with? Hey, me too.


For some reason we are, by default, limited to a small amount of objects to build our settlements. Why? Good question. Whatever the reason, I am fixing it, hopefully to your satisfaction. I will be writing a guide and putting it in the description, but right now I'm writing this up and getting it released so you guys can download. I'll work on a tutorial later.

----
Update 2.5:
Complete rewrite of the mod without using FalloutSnip. Mod should be much more stable, and has a far lower chance of corrupting your save.

 

Tools now used to create this mod were FO4Edit ONLY.

 

And this:

TroyIrving 56 kudos 164 posts

The mod is not dead people, I'm just a busy guy. I will update it when I have time which is rare.

If you need permission to use this mod in a video, you have it. You can do whatever you want with this mod as long ad you aren't monetizing it.
 
 So, yeah, SSex is an alternative to the bloated Homemaker, that needs patches to work with everything else that SSex may have in it. I would rather go with neither mod, at this point, than to beat a dead horse. So, with that, I guess that this topic should be closed, and abandoned.


#7
wax2k

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Both the description and the statement you quoted are more than a month old. The latest file update for SSEx is more than two months old. Its Bugs section is overflowing with unsolved issues. You can keep on ignoring the facts, I couldn't care less. But everone else can easily take a look and judge for themselves. And if anybody still chooses to keep using SSEx, I am fine with that as well. Just don't expect it to work without issues.


Edited by wax2k, 06 February 2016 - 01:09 AM.


#8
Grumpyhouse

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Wax is a genius.

 

Reading through this guide, I figured it had to be a texture. So I started throwing my tex folders into a new folder until my catagories stopped crshing & finally traced the issue back to an art tex replacer. It wasn't from Nexus & it's no longer up on the original place I got it from but if anyone's crashing & using a shadbase art replacer, try loading up without it & see if that works.



#9
mac2636

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Thanks for the guide wax. Hopefully this cuts down on the number of new topics that are obviously keyword related issues. I'm not sure if twist is really that dumb, or is just a complete schmuck. Either way getting rid of SSex is the single best thing most people can do to fix their keyword issues. That and that mod is a freakin mess once you dig into it.

 

I do have a question for you though. For me Kerrigan.esp is dependent on Armorsmith Extended.esp. NMM will not allow me to move is above Armorsmith. Any idea why that is?



#10
Gambit77

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I have another rule for you to add.

 

11. If you're still hitting the formlist cap after following these steps, I have a quick fix that will lower your category footprint by a lot.  The Homemaker SK integration patch uses deletion overrides on the Homemaker menu category keywords.  Those deletion overrides will break if you'd still be over the cap after they'd apply.  So for people that are using a lot of mods that add menu category keywords the Homemaker SK integration patch may not function properly for you in regards to lowering the menu category keyword footprint.  There is a fix for this though.  Open the Homemaker.esm and Homemaker - SK Integration Patch.esp in FO4Edit.  Remove the entire Keyword sections from both plugins and save.  And presto, you have a always functional fix to remove Homemaker's menu category keyword footprint.  I've mentioned the fix on the Homemaker page a couple times.  Hopefully NovaCoru will start packaging the SK Integration patch like this in the future, as the people that are most likely to need this (novice modders with no comprehension of the limits of the game engine) are the ones least likely to fix this themselves.







Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: guide, workshop, crafting, keyword, cap, load order, help, mods, menus

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