Striker879

Other than going through all the clothes in the Construction Set I haven't ever run across any resource for linking a piece of clothing's name to the folder names. Here's my list, but it may be incomplete in some respects ... note that Bethesda went el cheapo deluxe on many things with the game, so items listed that cover the same body slot with different names all use the same mesh/textures and will sometimes have different stats (mostly zero weight or enchanted is the difference): Lower Class 01 - Blacksmith apron Blacksmith pants Heinrick's pants Apron of the Master Artisan 02 - Dark green shirt Laced leather pants Acrobatic pants Resist cold pants 03 - Huntsman's vest Huntsman's pants Light armor vest Vest of Warding 04 - Coarse linen shirt Coarse linens 05 - Sack cloth shirt Sack cloth pants Tattered shirt Tattered pants Pants (Jail pants) Shirt (Jail shirt) 06 - Collared shirt Green felt linens 07 - Shirt with suspenders Breeches 08 - Belted vest Belted braies 09 - Fishing waders Child overalls 10 - Patched vest 11 - Green wool shirt 12 - Olive vest Pinarus' shirt 13 - Stitched green shirt 14 - Burlap vest 15 - Flax tunic LC Beggar - Beggar's shirt Middle Class 01 - Brown shirt Light brown linens 02 - Quilted doublet Tan linens Marksman Quilted doublet Fortify Fatigue pants Fortify Magicka pants Resist Normal Weapons Quilted doublet 03 - Blue and Green outfit Resist Poison Blue and Green outfit 04 - Burgundy linen shirt Burgundy linens Resist Disease Burgundy linen shirt Resist Fire Burgundy linens 05 - Russet felt outfit Security Russet felt shirt Russet felt shirt of Blade Turning 06 - Dark shirt (aka MC Shirt Sneaky) 07 - Blue Collar shirt Ernest's Best shirt Shop Keeper's shirt 08 - Shirt with Suspenders Heinrick's shirt 09 - Plaid shirt (aka MC Shirt Hobbit) 10 - Forrester's shirt Upper Class 01 - Green Brocade doublet Green Silk garment 02 - Black and Burgundy outfit 03 - Blue Velvet outfit 04 - Red Velvet blouse Red Velvet garment 05 - Red Velvet outfit 06 - Blue Silk shirt Blue Silks 07 - Highwayman's shirt None of the H-cup versions are seamless. If you find one that you don't like the seams just replace it again with the seamless version ... with pure replacers (no ESP) there can only be one size of each piece. As far as I can see your order looks good ... just remember to take the footfemale.dds and footfemale_n.dds files OUT of the Textures\characters\khajiit\female folder BEFORE you merge in the OCO v2 extracted download (or just replace those two files with the ones from your HGEC base again after OCO v2 has overwritten them with vanilla versions).

Download Seamless Heads Nuska to a folder and extract it to that same folder. In it you will see a folder named Data\Textures\Characters and in that you will find replacement body textures for HGEC and Robert Male for all of the races that the OCO v2 HGEC compatibility patch covered as well as those the Robert Male compatibility patch covered. The head stuff is in the nuska folder, same as in OCO v2. The races that aren't included in either OCO v2 or the Seamless Nuska will need to get their textures from your HGEC base body textures. Most of the races use the Imperial textures in both the vanilla game and in HGEC (Roberts gave the Redguards their own texture ... vanilla/HGEC Redguards use Imperial).

Yes you can use any HGEC compatible body texture with any of the many different HGEC variants around. Some will just look better than others. Size only matters for us guys ... the textures could care less what size mesh they are applied to. Nuska developed the HGEC compatibility patch to do her best to minimize the neckseam while using her heads on HGEC bodies (and Roberts patches for those bodies). This all predates the Seamless series by over a year. Nuska's textures were an improvement over using the standard HGEC textures but her head meshes didn't address the vertices problem (if anyone knew about it back then they weren't advertising it). So again ... if you want the least neck/waist/wrist/ankle seams possible use the HGEC body textures included in Seamless Heads Nuska. If you don't care about neck/waist/wrist/ankle seams use whichever HGEC texture you like. I use about a half dozen different HGEC textures in my Blockheaderization project, and enable my patented Selective Vision filter.

I'm crushed. Just because I'm behind the curve on payscale doesn't mean I won't stick my nose in every now and then to meddle. I wouldn't have a clue if any of this will be of use but I'm a packrat, so just because something is over my head doesn't mean I won't collect it. Normal Mapping Tutorial Normal Mapping Tutorial: Part II Bump to Norm Beta

Actually Ike, it's a bit bedraggled looking of late, and I'm not too sure what in all is living in there. Must be too many crumbs getting tangled in the fur, causing some sort of population explosion. Soon enough the spring trimming will evict them in any case. The body part renaming is exactly correct. You'll see that the hands and feet don't need renaming in most cases (such as those you'll pair with your HB). There are some that are intended for some particular body variant. If you get a wrong one and see a gap at the wrist or ankle just copy/paste the right one ... it's like having a great big box of Lego, but not all the pieces work well together. Use the Seamless body texture from the Seamless Heads Nuska package for the least seam possible. If you use any other HGEC body textures the seams will be anywhere from a bit more noticeable to just as bad as the bad old days.

Sorry ... I started to read the posts to get caught up on the latest, got pulled away by other things, and now I see you two have ventured into stuff way, way above my paygrade. I shall hand in my :ninja: and try not to be :confused: while lurking. - Edit - I know I will get my wrist slapped ... but what happens if you use Export As instead of Export?

DMRA is one of the HGEC compatible body meshes (i.e. to use it you need HGEC body textures installed). The HGEC textures don't care what sized HGEC body they are applied to. Some HGEC textures may look better on some body choices, but you can use the same texture from AA cup to J cup and larger. That isn't a feature of SetBody Reloaded, it's a feature of HGEC. Seamless is primarily meshes with vertices that align at the different body seams. That still left some texture induced seams, so Junkacc11 developed some HGEC body textures to further reduce the seams. Feel free to continue the work if you wish/are able. Read the description on the Seamless Equipment page for a complete description of the problem and all of the steps that have been taken to fix it. Yes there is a lot of reading if you want to learn how to mod and troubleshoot your own problems. None of us were born with this as innate knowledge ... we have all had to learn it. Fortunately people like Junkacc11 and Movomo who discovered the roots of the problem and developed solutions were also kind enough to document it ... otherwise we'd all still be in the dark ages using stone knives and sharp sticks to do stuff. Seamless Heads Nuska OCOv2 edition includes replacement body textures for HGEC as well as replacement head textures. It doesn't include the beast races ... install the textures that came with your HGEC base package. All that is needed to figure out what parts of which need to be installed first when making your custom install package is looking at what is included with each download, and thinking through what each does. BBB will normally only include replacement meshes ... obviously you will need the non-BBBed version and then apply the BBBed meshes as a replacement. The non-BBBed version will be the source of the required textures. When dealing with texture replacers you need to know what you are replacing. In the case of HGEC you aren't so much replacing vanilla textures so much as installing compatible textures, but as Ike pointed out footfemale in vanilla has the same name as footfemale in HGEC or Roberts (and handfemale in HGEC as there is no handfemale in Roberts). Many if not most things in the game can only have one version when it comes to replacers. There can be only one female fur cuirass replacer, and it must be at meshes\armor\fur\f\cuirass.nif or the game won't use it (without an ESP to direct it to use alternate non-replacers, so you could have a DMRA fur cuirass while all the bandits etc have E-cup fur cuirass IF you have an mod that uses an ESP to put the DMRA version in the game ... otherwise you can have E-cup or you can have DMRA but not both). Sorry about missing all the details on Khajiit textures. Just checked my own Installed folder for OCO v2 and I see I didn't even transfer any Khajiit textures from the extracted OCO v2 download (probably because I knew that the Khajiit problem needed the textures from HGEC to solve). That situation will remain in the game forever, and so will always require a solution. Using any of the meshes from SetBody Reloaded as a seamless replacer is just copying the files to the correct folder (meshes\characters\_male) and renaming them to replace what's already there. A body mesh is a body mesh is a body mesh ... without using Blockhead overrides there can only be one femaleupperbody.nif, one femalelowerbody.nif, femalehand.nif and femalefoot.nif and those need to be their names.

See your other post. Oblivion Reloaded is the modern replacement for ENB.

Probably maxing out your video card memory and then crashing. Use Oblivion Reloaded. It has features that purge memory to help with crashes.

"Actually, that's the thing. The OCO-HGEC compatibility patch doesn't even HAVE a footfemale.dds for Khajiit, so when all is installed, the last one to prevail is still the original OCO one, with only feet texture. And in the end the female Khajiit body is a mess, dunno exactly what's happening there. Maybe it's trying to use vanilla textures (since the HGEC ones got overwritten... by feet) and they get all messed up, I really dunno, but that's past the point where the problem occurs anyway. Edit: I might have misunderstood though, not too clear on that. You just meant the compatibility patch doesn't have a Khajiit-specific footfemale.dds? And it just uses some generic all-race footfemale.dds or something like that? I mean, first you said it installed a footfemale.dds, which it does, but only for a few races (or at least it only has a few race folders with that). But on the next sentence you say it doesn't include any textures for Khajiit female. So that kinda confused me..." Sorry, I realized last night that what I meant in the first part of the footfemale explanation could be misinterpreted, but it was already 2 AM. OCO v2 only includes body textures for the human and elf races. Because Nuska was trying to fix the "vanilla Khajiit problem" (male and female use the same vanilla body textures) you will find a single footfemale.dds and it's normal map file in Textures\characters\khajiit\female but it is a foot file for vanilla, not HGEC (in other words it only is designed to cover the foot, not the foot, lower body and upper body as HGEC requires). What you had in the way you were trying to fix things was a foot texture spread over an entire body ... not a pretty sight. If you followed what I said to do to fix it exactly it would be fixed (download and extract your HGEC body replacer to a folder, extract it to that same folder and then copy the Khajiit textures to the proper folder in your game install). SetBody Reloaded Blockhead Editions install instruction are found in the file SetBody_Blockhead_Readme.rtf (as mentioned in the mod description). As you don't have the special skeleton.nif that is required for the meshes in the data_Buttock BB folder you wouldn't install that folder's contents. To fully install it you install the contents of the Data folder in Core and the contents of the Data folder from the Data pack download and activate the ESP. It doesn't include any of the body textures except some specialty textures that aren't included in any of the normal body texture mods (it only requires those textures for some of the weirder body types included). I just use it as a mesh source for my own Blockhead overrides, and so it's not installed (just extracted to a folder so I can copy whichever files I want to use). If you try mixing any other body types replacement armor/clothes with HGEC you will get weird skin on any exposed skin that the outfit shows (so if it covers all exposed skin from neck to toes and fingertips it matters not the slightest if it's for HGEC or not ... if skin is exposed you will have a similar situation to your "Khajiit experiment"). Vanilla uses four texture files to cover the body, hands and feet. HGEC uses two texture files to cover the body, hands and feet. Roberts female uses one texture file to cover body, hands and feet. They are not mutually compatible. When you create a piece of cloth/armor any exposed skin (even that small sliver of wrist that sticks of the sleeve) is assigned a property called "skin" and a location on the body. When the game engine displays that piece of clothing/armor it looks for whatever texture file is being used (let's say the brown shirt) and for any part that is labelled skin it finds the correct race skin and displays that (so when a Khajiit wears the brown shirt Khajiit skin is displayed and when a Dunmer wears the brown shirt Dark Elf skin is displayed). If you put a Robert female brown shirt on an HGEC body you will not get the correct part of the body displayed on all parts of the exposed skin (and a vanilla mesh can be an even worse situation). Do some experiments with different pieces of clothing that show varying amounts of skin in different locations (some bare arms, some low at the bust etc) but are designed for a body that you don't have installed. You will see that some aren't too too bad and others are a complete mess. If you use the HGEC body use HGEC compatible clothes/armor. In every folder for every mod I've downloaded and installed you will find the extracted download and then another folder named Installed. Inside of each Installed folder is a Data folder and inside it are any and all of that particular mod's required folders and files. After I have everything properly arranged (including any BBB mesh replacements or missing textures I've discovered using NifSkope and then located from whichever mod they originated from etc) it's a simple right click on Data and copy, right click on Oblivion and paste to install. Every single install on my machine is the same, right click Data/copy, right click Oblivion/paste. Impossible to screw up. Even those few mods I've installed using BAIN have a folder in my Oblivion_Downloads, and that folder has the extracted download and an Installed folder that has exactly what BAIN installed ... no exceptions (even for the UOP). Yes it takes twice the hard drive space. I have a 1TB drive that is dedicated to stuff like my Oblivion_Downloads folder. I won't live long enough to fill it (currently at 27% filled, and I have downloaded just about anything that exists today that I have any interest in ... the other 73% will certainly hold those few new mods that come along that I may decide to download). A 1TB drive isn't much money these days ... you can even go with an external drive if your gaming machine is a laptop or you don't want to crack open your case (though installing a new drive in a desktop computer is as simple as four screws, two connections on a single cable, one power cable from your power supply, boot your machine and format the new drive).

The vanilla game females use separate texture files for the upper body, lower body, hands and feet (as do the vanilla males). OCO v2 includes replacement files for vanilla bodies (so it has upper body, lower body, hands and feet). HGEC changes the texture mapping for female bodies. The foot texture covers the entire body except the hands (head textures are always separate ... the head is not part of the body). So to cover the entire body HGEC uses foot and hand textures and that's all. Roberts male (or female) is even more extreme ... it changes the texture mapping to a single file that covers the entire body including the hands. When you installed the OCO v2 HGEC texture compatibility patch it overwrote the vanilla OCO v2 female foot texture (which only covered the foot) with an HGEC compatible footfemale.dds that covers the entire body except for the hands. OCO v2 HGEC compatibility patch does not include any body texture replacement for Khajiit females, so after installing both base OCO v2 and it's HGEC patch you will still only have whatever Khajiit female texture your base HGEC package installed. If you are having trouble with Khajiit females just extract your HGEC base package to a folder, find the footfemale.dds, footfemale_n.dds, handfemale.dds and handfemale_n.dds in the Textures\characters\khajiit\female folder and copy those files to the same folder structure in your game's folders. If you download and install NifSkope you will see I'm not stringing you along ... both those clothing replacers are H-cup. Which HGEC H-cup did you install ... H, HA or HB (they are all included in the seamless package ... there are 84 different HGEC upper bodies in just the "normal" HGEC folder, along with 7 other HGEC compatible variations which bring the total upper body variations to 130 ... and that doesn't include DMRA, AGHGEC etc). I know for a fact that all three of the H-cup variations that come with HGEC are included. They are just body meshes ... to replace your non-seamless ones with the seamless version of the exact same body mesh is four files, femaleupperbody.nif, femalelowerbody.nif, femalehand.nif and femalefoot.nif (and all you need to do is copy them to your Data\meshes\characters\_male folder and do a little renaming, as upper and lower body meshes have identifiers appended to the standard HGEC file names to differentiate them ... download and extract it and you'll see).

Ah ... the genetic legacy of former lives. TES Alliance is also a good spot to get to know some of the current crop of talented modders (many of which you will see here on ocassion).

Hey ... that's my hat !! I mean both of you. I wear the Sir Links-a-Lot hat frontwards and the :ninja: in the radical dude position. Sheesh !

Have a look at Bben46's signature some time (he's one of the moderators ... name shows in green). So I was maybe a tiny bit misleading when I said it "doesn't show" in screenshots. BBB does show, if you time when you capture the shot at just the right moment during mid step/mid hit/mid stagger you'd have the boobs off in weird positions. Shot's like that are generally not at the top of a screenshotter's priority list for taking the shot. BBB is very popular with many of the screenshotter's cousins, the videographers. Movement is lost in static screenshots. Coronerra wasn't alone in pioneering BBB. As is usually the case BBB was built on the idea from the earlier moving breast system and some work done by others that lead to what we have today. It all came together because more than one individual got interested, and some of those working on it had talents in different areas (fore with NoMaaM for example ... before NoMaaM there weren't very many of the vanilla animations BBBed). The system we have today always needed the three components. Yes you could "just do it yourself". I've looked through the tutorials ... even tried using Saaya's once. So far the score is Blender 1, Striker 0. Perhaps if I really set my mind to it I'll manage to fit my head around it ... Blender was designed by people who already were accomplished modellers/animators etc. Unfortunately what was an intuitive way to do certain tasks for them isn't on the Striker roadmap. I've run into the same or similar situation with other things ... I'll never be a computer programmer, it's unlikely I'll be an accomplished scripter and there is a possibility I won't be a BBB modeller. I'm really really good at renaming files for use with Blockhead though!! Last night (I do spend an inordinate amount of time mulling things over instead of actually going to sleep) I came up with your "win/win". SetBody Reloaded Blockhead Edition includes every single body that any of the old HGEC versions included ... all in seamless. It also includes a vast number of other seamless bodies. I use it as my resource for seamless bodies in my quest for "Infinite Variety ... Blockhead Edition". If you download it to a folder and extract it we can find the right one to replace your current H-cup, either with the exact same only seamless or one of the other H-cup variations it has (would you prefer a pair that gravity has more "say" in things, or perhaps different nips). I use NifSkope to check out the various options, but you could also simply install it and use the spells to check out the different bodies it includes (installing it doesn't overwrite or change your current body ... the new bodies are worn as "clothes" and to revert back you simply choose Reset from the spell menu). When you find the one you want to use it's just a matter of copying the files from it's Bombshell folder to your game's Character\_male folder. We could also set you up with a different body for your player character than anybody else in your game ... Blockhead rocks. So the best H-cup clothes replacer is BBB H-cup Stock, but it isn't 100% complete (only 1/3 of lower class is done, and a couple of upper class are also missing). The missing lower class stuff is covered by the original that Pyramidhead123 used as a base, but that all uses to older moving breast system. I have used it in the past ... it's the HGEC Bouncing Stock Clothing Project. If you decide to use it for lower class 5 through 14 either install manually using just those or install the older one and then overwrite with the Pyramidhead123 version (mind your package order in the BAIN Installers tab). Armor is a bit more problematic unless you ascribe to the "less protects better" school of thought. As I'm sure you know, there are plenty that give almost infinite protection when using that formula (what is it ... the inverse square law ... half the coverage gives four times the protection). When I have more time I'll root through my Oblivion_Downloads folder and see if I have much that is more normal coverage.

Hmm ... maybe it was you and I that were co-joined twins then Rangaros. I always have my patented "Selective Vision" at the ready, and yet I put quite a bit of time and effort into getting the Seamless tool for fixing those meshes that I wanted fixed figured out. And once I figured out how to work the tool I stopped using it. If you look at the history of BBB it may help understand it. Used to be nothing moved on female chests in the game. Tons and tons of skimpy armors were created, where single petals from the tiniest flowers on the planet protected nubile manga warrior chicks far better than the most robust, up to the chin and down to the ankles high grade steel/ebony/et al of vanilla. Yet not one of the petals moved one millimeter even during the most arduous of the Amazing Jumps. The earliest "moving breast" efforts were quickly supplanted by the skeleton that rocked the world (or at the very least took the world by storm). Soon you couldn't find a skimpy armor's mod comments that wasn't inundated with pleas to BBB this. A few modders took up that torch and quite a few "armors" were BBBed. Almost every single one of those "retrofitted" BBB versions required the original mod, not just for textures and boots, greaves and gaunlets, but also for the ESPs that put the armor into the game. Soon things branched out into vanilla armor replacements, and while no ESP was required to get them into the game (archive invalidation was all that was needed) the replacements still used the vanilla game textures. To BBB a non-BBBed mesh you just weight paint the parts that need to move and then rig those parts to the new bones of the BBBed skeleton.nif ... either the original Coronerra's or the later variations of that same basic BBBing method (like the Ragdoll skeleton). You could use the same Coronerra's tutorial that Saaya and others used to learn how to do it (and/or Saaya's tutorial that built on the original). The replacement meshes created the need for replacement animations ... and that same foundation remains today. BBBed skeleton.nif, meshes and animations all need to be used. Most modern standalone (i.e. non-replacer original flower petal styled armor) is created as BBBed right from the start, so there is no previous non-BBBed version (some exceptions still appear, generally geared toward the screenshotter crowd ... BBB doesn't show in screenshots). So just 11 pages ... gee, you got shortchanged on the help. What did you say ... we're supposed to "play" the game too ???

Have a look at this post. Don't use anything other than careful vanilla leveling myself, but Realistic Leveling and Oblivion XP Updated are the two most popular in the leveling category.

Ayleid and Silverlight is BBBed, but the ones that aren't exactly designed as something that should bounce don't ... and you'll have H-cup bliss (that is all in the MOO Seamless ... can't say about MOO vanilla as I haven't extracted it's BSA to look). - Edit - Seamless isn't just about the neckseam ... it's all the seams. You'll find those two MOO armors I mentioned show a lot of "neckseam". - Edit 2 - G'night Mary Ellen ...

Nah ... Ike doesn't want to admit it but we were identical twins joined at the head in a previous life. Because we were joined at the head we couldn't see eye to eye, but were always of one mind in all matters. Had to make another "shuttle pilot" run for the granddaughter (home from work) ... the van can't get fixed soon enough I think. To be honest I haven't used Luna's Khajiit female (I've been happy enough with my EVE + OCO v2 kitties right out of the box ... looks like I don't need to go trying out Luna's version, other than maybe as an FYI for myself). That will give you some hands on with the uninstall features of BAIN. It's getting a bit later here at the Striker Mansion ... I'll try to get those H-cup replacer links in a post first thing tomorrow. I have another big travel day ahead of me though, so if I can't get to it first thing it'll get pushed to Sunday (will be the wee hours of the morning when I get back to the Manor ... this trip's a quick down to the big city and back the same night, but the big city is a 4 hour drive ... this grandpa job is a lot bigger than it looks from the outside).

When you install a mod that has no ESP/ESM then that is the only time you don't need to rebuild your bashed patch. If you install any mod that has an ESP/ESM you rebuild your bashed patch after installing. If you uninstall a mod that has an ESP/ESM you rebuild your bashed patch after you deactivate the mod (take off the tick mark then rebuild). If you want to uninstall a mod that is merged and deactivated (has a + sign in the box) you must unmerge it first (as I outlined) and then deactivate (untick) and then rebuild.

I think we may have had some miscommunication on the Roberts male ESP Rangaros ... MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp needs to be deleted from your Data folder before you build your bashed patch ... Oblivion_Character_Overhaul.esp replaces it. The stuff I was saying about merging into the bashed patch and merging + deavtivating were general guidelines and not aimed at any specific mod. This is one of those "specific mods" situations, and is at the root of your Khajiit problem I believe. MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp is merged into your bashed patch and deactivated, so it is overwriting the changes OCO v2 and everything else is trying to make. To delete MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp we first need to get it out of your bashed patch. Right click on your bashed patch and select Rebuild. When it brings up the list that shows everything that is merged into your bashed patch turn off the tick for MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp and then rebuild the patch. After it's done you will now see MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp listed on your Mods tab and you will be able to take off the tick mark on it (before that it would have had a + in the box, showing it was merged and deactivated). Now rebuild your bashed patch again, without MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp activated (ticked). I suggest you then delete MaleBodyReplacerV5.esp from your Data folder, so it doesn't get activated again by mistake. - Edit - Same goes for EVE_KhajiitFix.esp if you have it installed. If it's installed and merged + deactivated follow all those steps for it. If it's just installed and activated you can just untick, rebuild and then delete from Data.

I'm starting to see how Wrye Bash's BAIN installer is just as bad as any mod manager. They all carry the same liability in so far as they don't teach any modding skills. In a way I think BAIN is the worst for anyone who doesn't have at least a fundamental knowledge of installing mods manually because of the power and flexibility it allows an expert modder. The complexity of the tool allows you to "follow to the letter" and yet not get the expected result. You must pay close attention to the order the archives are listed in the Wrye Bash Installers tab, or else what you thought would overwrite doesn't (if it is listed higher in the list than what you wanted to overwrite). Without learning to manually install replacers anyone would be lost in figuring out why BAIN/NMM/OBMM wasn't working. At least with NMM and OBMM the order you do things determines the outcome, not the order you do them plus the order they are listed in the Installers tab. It very well may be that to get it all to perfection you will need to install some parts manually Rangaros.

Both my old guy's games (preBlockhead) were H-cup installs ... if EVE included H-cup my current Blockhead guy's game would be too. With Blockhead I'm on a "variety is the spice of life" mission using EVE E-cup as the base. Let me get supper taken care of and I'll line you up with some links and further suggestions.

Did you BAIN install the male Khajiit using my suggested package order?

Which size ... I have tons and tons of links for HGEC clothing/armor replacers and non-replacers. They aren't Seamless though.

I see that quest has a fame requirement of 10 fame ... my guy just went to 7 fame as I've been trying to keep his fame down so the SM doesn't start the KotN quest (it'll start at 15 fame). Would like my guy to be level 20+ before KotN.