SMB92

Really good info there Jonwd7, awesome stuff. If thats true then thats good news, I love performance and I don't care if I fill a 500GB Evo to get it lol. Maybe thats why giggly sees so much perfirmance improvement downtown with new gens or at least partially so. Edit - just to clarify jonwd7, I'm running fallout off a 960 Evo nvme dedicated to it ;) And thanks very much VlitS and zilav for that script, shame I had to work 10 hours today lol I would have spent that time playing with that script. But if what jonwd7 is true I'm sticking with the full gens :P Xbox people will be real happy but

I was starting to think i couldn't view the collision cos I only have access to 2017 3ds max. Like I said I'm not a modelling expert. Maybe one day we'll have a tool to open the merged data and edit it.... I'm running the rest of Beantowns individual generations by area for the latest version, can't wait to play with... Your tool :P

Very nice. I want that script! Your physics nifs are a complete blow, cant seem to edit the collisions properly with 3ds max. Not an expert in that field but collision data doesn't display properly with them or SCOLs. Also, having the prewar Sanctuary bridge as a loose file crashes the CK when precombining meshes, well it generates fine but cant generate an ESP file. Its like it skips it if its packed but forces it to include if its loose?

Youtube terms of service is absolutely broken, morally. Content owners have to put a claim in to Youtube with proof that its their IP and then they can get a cut of the money. But any profits made before the claim can't be disputed. Bloody sad. I have a very strong disdain for the bigtime mod reviewers, especially that clown MxR or whatever. I find myself very apprehensive about viewing a mod video at all in fact.

Its better than nothing. I'd pay for a quality works if I had to, but I would agree everyone was much happier before we started adding money to the equation

Hi folks, Just wanted to put it out there, if you have recent hardware or at least you have the Intel Management Engine driver version 11.6.0.1036 it could be causing your game to crash at random every so often. I was looking at crashes with War of the Commonwealth when I noticed in Event Viewer>Administrative Events that an error is being spat out every 1-2 hours. Some of the times of these errors coincide with times Papyrus last logged so best to make sure you have this updated. This is the specific error: Check your manufacturers website for an update. EDIT: You may also install this from Intel directly: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/25881 Best to remove the current IME by uninstalling through Control Panel, and restarting and freshly installing. The service throwing the error is some Online Connect service that has to do with Intel and Visa coming up with some sort of "Safepay" system, it is irrelevant to us at present.

I'm curious to know, have you tried to recombine meshes and vis after you have applied those occlusion planes? That's where I found they don't mix. Guess you just keep a plugin with your Occ boxes/planes additions separate and load it in after any recombinations. I tend to keep all my newly gened precalc in patches rather than modifying the original esp. Easy enough to merge them, easy enough to blow them away

5-10 fps is quite substantial for some places. I'm just wondering if you'll see more occlusion bugs with any changes to those settings. I end up getting carried away last night and looking around for damned edits that could disable that dumbass crafting/workshop shader overlay, but those functions all seem to be tied up within the shaders file.

Why doesn't that surprise me. QA eat your heart out. I'm mucking around with these camera angle settings above. Maybe they force more use of previs with high values at cost of more occlusion bugs

Thanks for that info, i'll look into that asap.

Some settings related to Vis/Precoms from the INI dump (some are present in default): bDisableComputeShaderOnCombinations=0fAccurateOcclusionThreshold=768.0000bDoMultithreadedVisQuery=1fPreVisCameraBufferSize=16.0000bPreCulledObjectsEnabled=1bCullingBatch=0 EDIT - From newer dump - fPreVisCameraZShift=18.0000 If I find more I will post them. EDIT - BTW people if you didn't know, when you do a saveini now, the last mod in your LO will generate an INI, well at least the dump will be named after it. I'm sussing out the new version since 1.4xx which was the dump I currently. Maybe you already knew that but for those who didn't :smile:

I wish I had those numbers. My game bleeds draw calls like a stuck pig. But yet I tend not to dip below 35FPS, whether they be 20,000 or 35,000 calls. Still haven't figured this out yet, but I'd say that it would be the total triangle count that will be the difference, but that counter is not in F4's ENB. It's Umbra's proprietary code Previs, you'd have to hassle them for an update :D

Thanks for the input. I wonder if due to this function being latent, if say the MoveToNav function is called but unsuccessful and then successfully disables the spawn, if another spawn spawns and cannot get a hold of this function the game then insta CTDs. In the logs, I see this error spit out a few times for a number of different spawns, and these are usually the last things in the log, apart from sometimes one last script fires off before CTD. Also to note, these scripts utilise OnCellDetach is used quite frequently, so perhaps converting all those over to OnUnloaded would be necessary as well Really good info people, thx a bunch.

So looking through the scripts I was provided I can see now that they are using the function in the scripts. I was led to believe that it was the game automatically doing (which there is some degree of that still happening, I think when the spawns are occurring in unloaded/unloading areas the scripts aren't keeping up with them. I can't seem to determine whether there is enough failsafe in simply just disabling the groups that spawn if they are outside of navmeshed area, but yeah I think the better way would be to only trigger spawn within a set distance to the player to minimize these ctds for now.

I recall talking to someone about this before now you mentioned - even setting up ambush scenes etc and dropping in via quest. I guess the drama is that the scope of this mod is so huge this would be a total rewrite. It might be better to go back to the drawing board and make something else. I was hoping to put some sort of failsafe into this mod as it is without chopping it up too much, the more I look at it the more tempting it is to tear it down. Maybe I can use the getdistancefromplayer function to stop spawns past a certain point, say between 10-15K units, and see if that reduces the CTDs at least on the sane settings. I guess the problem isn't that it's dropping 100's of NPCs at the lower level settings that users should be using with WOTC, but more that there are too many spawn points altogether in a given area - and Papyrus/engine can't keep up. I recently dropped city spawns to a setting of 35 down from 65 (which are both the lowest options) and it tends to last longer without CTD. In general it's rare I see crashes in the "countryside" but they happen from time to time. Like you said, there is only so much the engine can handle before CTD anyway, it's hard to help an audience that is expecting 50 different groups of 20+ members on patrol :D

Well its more or less the game itself calling that function, I can give you a good scenario on how it goes wrong. Lets say you are on the other side of the bridge from Hangmans Alley, in Cambridge. If you are walking East past the top of this bridge you are in range of cells across the river. But as you are walking along you quickly move away from those cells and they unload. Papyrus does not fire off quick enough or the engine is not fast enough to correct any spawns still occurring, which will now be on un-navmeshed ground and because the cell is unloaded. But sometimes the game puts up with it, don't know why. Your ideas are good, maybe instead of looking for a failsafe I should implement better function over the top to begin with and avoid that altogether

Seems though we got some good minds on this thread, I wanted to shamelessly advertise another thread that I started Re: War of the Commonwealth. Chime in if you got some ideas: https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/5571167-need-failsafe-for-movetonearestnavmeshlocation-function/ Regarding alternatives to precombined system, I did some thinking on this but at the end of the day I still end up feeling like you'd end up with this system. I thought about maybe utilising static collections more, as in when a designer is placing objects in CK, being able to select multiple overlapping objects and having some sort of function to "combine and optimize", but you see straight away that idea leads to the thinking of "why not do it by the whole cell or loaded area". I do think there needs to be more "micro management" of it though. Or at least better functions to detect the meshes that actually changed and only output those new files, like Vlits has found. I've come to a point these days that I have massive disdain for automating anything whether it be automated patches or optimizing texture files etc (excepting LOD, I love LOD generator), I would much rather micro manage. This is where I say previs would be fine if it were dynamic but precoms are just a PITA, at least for modding. On a separate note too, there are cells in the game that you can simply just add new items to and not poke anything, and for whatever reason the cell will always instantly reset (but not your power armor anymore). The whole quarry just near Concord is a prime example of a vanilla version of the bug, it constantly resets. The only 2 things I see in common is mention of survival mode by other users (including console) and potentially "initially disabling" something (but not always) and in the case where vanilla objects are not touched for the latter, I'm looking at that new type of navmesh for scrappable objects, whether or not that's involved, because it is "initally disabled" until the reference is removed. Otherwise I'm still scratching my head.

Yeah its good in theory. Can't imagine the Umbra salesman had to do much upselling with Bethesda hehehe. I'm a big OCD freak when it comes to solid 60fps. I'll do what I need to do get there or very close. Your previs relies on massive amounts of calculation, hence why it takes the longest to generate. No way it could run dynamically in the main thread beside the renderer without cutting performance dramatically, its much more performance friendly to read the precalculated data. They'd need to be using a low level API. Bethesda says some calculation is done in realtime for "dynamic objects", probably MSTT objects. There are still flaws with it, still see some areas that I can see occlusion bugs with in the vanilla, mostly through windows and doors around a cell from the player.

Thanks for all the info Vlits. As I said, what f*#@ery is the precombined mesh system. In my opinion it doesn't gain that much performance to warrant the regeneration or even use of it. But precis relies on it. The fact the public CK produces 5-10 times larger files explains the small stutter/pause I see when transitioning from an area with custom generated data to vanilla. I would imagine that also the overheads lost in our generations would account some way toward why I don't see reasonable or sometimes even noticeable gain from the meshes, but then as you say it only gened so many new files. IMO it is simply not feasible to do the methods you state in comparing and truncating new combinations even if just for the sake of console modding, I can think of a thousand ways to better spend my time ;) @Giggily - Every time I tried generating any combination of data around where Bethesda left that occ box, the whole area of generation was totaled with occlusion bugs. Maybe its just that unique instance but I have not tested adding occ boxes. Disabling the box and regenerating, everything works as intended and it just makes sense in my mind. Just trying to find the cause of the problem in that area and stumbling upon this adds up to me. 12000 draw calls you mention. I record as high as 38000 downtown. Currently 26000 at East City Downs with BTI without new precull data. Some other areas I see 18-20000. Yet my Sanctuary has the lowest fps at 35fps lowest point, 15000 i think it was.

Hi folks, I've recently assumed control of the War for the Commonwealth mod, a mod of which is sorely complained about for the many CTDs it causes. Due to the potentially insane number of spawns this mod can deliver, and the way in which spawns were generated and systematically placed throughout the game, the majority of crashes occur when the game tries to correct spawns outside of navmeshed areas (using the ObjectReference.MovetoNearestNavmeshLocation function.) Problem is for a variety of reasons this does not always work out and the game just crashes instantly. It does try to do it a few times, but if it is interrupted by the launch of another script, it will crash the game, or if it just straight up failed it will do the same. I'm not an advanced scripter by any means, no where in the caliber of Engager the original author. He is long gone now so I can't ask him. What I was thinking is, If I had some sort of failsafe script or extension that ran quite often/directly after this function is triggered, I could somehow disable the offending reference before it caused the game to crash. It may bring extra latency/strain to Papyrus in game, but I think it would be a far superior alternative to just crashing all the time. Would anyone happen to know if such a thing is possible? I understand the function is native to the engine, so perhaps a F4SE extension of some sort, if I'm understanding this correctly?

I had intended on making a thread about my findings into this system, but seems here we all are. Good that it's getting out there for all to read. I believe the Previs system is fine on it's own, as it's easy enough to just turn it off, yet provide the biggest boosts in the heaviest areas. If it were completely dynamic it would be really good, but I think that it would require too much calculation given the sheer time it takes just to generate UVD files to begin with. Possibly if it were implemented on it's own thread that worked directly behind the main thread before GPU handoff, but I can see instability written all over it. Maybe with the likes of low level APIs this can be a possibility in future. Bethesda should have never jumped on it this early. Ambitious alright. In case this isn't known, I have been able to determine that your previs only loads one UVD file at a time, for the 3x3 grid your in. Every object that has calculation stored in this UVD file acts as an occlusion box for everything beyond it, this in itself is not a bad idea as a system. Unfortunately it relies on the cell data not being changed much like your precommed meshes but at least has some level of potential to becoming dynamically implemented. Precommed meshes on the other hand, they f*** modding completely, given previs can't really be made without them. And as it was mentioned earlier in this thread, Bethesda have based interiors very much around them. I haven't played with interiors much but I had an understanding you wouldn't need portals/bounds with properly generated precull data, but what f*#@ery that is. Now I'm not sure if it has been clarified just from a couple posts I saw here, but any mod that contains only ITMs of cell data, and does not pre-date DLC, has no problem now loading in. Precoms and Previs work fine. Obviously only when a reference that is precombined is poked it will disable. Another point I saw was about the timestamps, they are more or less just markers to tell the game the old data has been updated, and to point to the new data with that timestamp. This is in accordance with the last, overriding mod loaded, so you can have multiple BA2s with existing new data and the game will only load the ones it is pointing to. However, this is completely voided by having any precom/previs files present as loose files, given the system takes priority of loose files. ANd just to mention it in case anyone didn't notice, but if you install some custom meshes, say a SMIM type mod, and go regenerate all your precommed meshes, they actually get fully baked in. As in you can pretty much remove the original mesh from your data folder and just run with the precoms. Whether this is the main difference between our version of CK and Bethesda's, I don't know. These are my findings, hope you get something out of it. I can generate 11 ugrids of data just fine in one go these days, a PITA sure, but I've worked most of this out. BTW Thanks Bethesda for sticking that f*#@ing occlusion box in monsignor plaza just to piss me off, there's a couple hours of life I won't get back.

Regardless of all the rhetoric here, nothing constructive is going on. Just a lot of expression of disappointment and motivation, and a lot of people trying to justify their positions over everybody elses. Nothing good is becoming of it.

 Yeah, I agree with this. Only Behippo should be able to post here from now on. I realize everyone has the right to their opinion (as long as it stays civil) but we should move the pros and cons of whether someone "assisting" the SKSE team is a good thing or not to another thread.  @SMB92: I thought "whinge" was a misspelling. Then I looked it up. Most appropriate. Also, your PC beat up my PC and stole it's lunch money... Hehe yeah, I had to backspace and add the H, its one of those words you can easily lose a spelling bee over, lmao. Oh and just wait until I put a Vega or 1080ti in, maybe even get the Skylake X if it trashes the Ryzen/7700k. Then it'll hack your mums bank account long before you can get that lunch money ;) And speaking of bullying, i'll never be conned into getting a Titan card, good go Nvidia. Way to take a dump on your customer base.

I'm with Cliff, lock this thread down. It's just become a whinge thread. And just because someone has offered to take the reins so to speaks, doesn't mean anything. The sheer amount if experience and info between the silverlock team members that would have to be gained by said new person would equate to a long waiting time anyway, and all it is buying you is a false sense of security that it's going to get done. Always assume the worst and be pleasantly surprised when it comes through, at least in the case of these sorts of things.

The Fallout 4 trailer song is stuck in my head in such a "lol" way now, after that update from Ian. The salty sea rose a few feet that day XD