kvnchrist

No, pressure from the world community who sides with the Palestinians, as a matter of course. The media played it's part in setting up the narrative, which it has from the beginning. It seems the person who is wrong is always the bigger of the two, because the imagery is there to be exploted by those who wish to promote this narretive. It sells more papers and turns more heads, which is what these news services are after. This will soon pass and the media will quickly flash over to someone else they can depict as victims, so they can capitalize on some other blood bath they can pick their davids and their Goliath's. Rinse and repeat. Your aren't seriously defending the Israelis stealing yet more land are you? I'm not defending anything, but the making of hostilities bring a price if you don't win. The Palestinians knew what they were getting into and yet did so willing and with gusto. I don't defend steeling and I don't defend foolhardiness either.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one look at the situation from the begining to the end. Not edit it to fit a separate narrative. You can try to diminish to rockets as much as you will. The fact that their use ensured reprisals and the fact that these Palestinians fired them inside a populated area knowing that these areas would be hit is cowardly and shows a complete disregaurd for those people living in that area. I suggest those who think they are fireworks go over there light one of these sparklers and stand infront of a camera, so we can see what damage fireworks can do to a body.

No, pressure from the world community who sides with the Palestinians, as a matter of course. The media played it's part in setting up the narrative, which it has from the beginning. It seems the person who is wrong is always the bigger of the two, because the imagery is there to be exploted by those who wish to promote this narretive. It sells more papers and turns more heads, which is what these news services are after. This will soon pass and the media will quickly flash over to someone else they can depict as victims, so they can capitalize on some other blood bath they can pick their davids and their Goliath's. Rinse and repeat.

There's a real difference between those who seek truth through facts and those who seek facts to support a truth. One searches for a path and the other is given a guided tour. Edit: Forget it, it's really not worth bothering with. Dude. I was agreeing with you. My comments were directed elsewhere but I quoted your post because I was trying to augment your point. Sorry if I didn't clarify that. I will do that in the future. Have a nice day.

There's a real difference between those who seek truth through facts and those who seek facts to support a truth. One searches for a path and the other is given a guided tour.

If hate was an environmental energy source, we could tap into we could power the world without digging into anything other than ourselves. Will it ever cease? Who hates who, hates who, hates who?

How does that make them any different than any of our other allies? (except the USS Liberty, of course... that was ostensibly a 'mistake'....) While the creation of Israel, and its subsequent policies, are definitely a contributing factor, you didn't see the REAL rise of terrorism until after the USA started sticking their noses into the internal affairs of other countries in the Middle East. Not to mention two invasions.... and wars. We turned Iraq into a giant terrorist training camp, with real, live, americans to shoot at. And then gave them vehicles, weaponry and military training that isis has gladly taken use of.

Now you're getting absurd. Ethnic cleansing? Thisa is no more a last ditch effort than the last attempt at showing their might throw warfare instead of peace. Humas doesn't want peace, they want Isreal out of Palistine and that's been the ongoing thing with them. As yourself why the Palistinian Authority has thrived and Humas has not. The Authority worked with Isreal and prospered by it. Humas is getting together with the PA out of expediance and as soon as they can, they will be raining rockets again down on Isreal. Humas has always had options. the Palisianians have had options all the way back to the PLO. They simply choose the path that is slowly eroding infront of them, because it's allies concerns are elsewhere and the rest of the world is getting tired of their crap!

When were the bodies found? You stated that the video was kept from the publc, but the coroner could not do his job unless the bodies were found. Did these areasts and bulldozing happen before or after the bodies were found and even if they were what makes you think that the rest is not just retaliation by the isrealites. As far as putting this into action to provoke isreal, it is not nonsence since you are describing an organization who first and formost wants to wipe isreal off the face of the map. Whatever they do else may simpy be window dressing. Anyone who would fire rockets from civilain areas in order to bring retaliation to those civilians don't care about the palistinians in their own area. What makes you thnk they give a rats rear end about the Palisianian authority? They disappeared on June 12 and were found on June 30 and yes the arrests , bulldozing and killings had been going on for over 2 weeks . That started almost immediately after the teens disappeared. And of course its retaliation , its retaliation for retaliation's sake . You (Netanyahu) don't allow a proper investigation to determine who did it but immediately launch into going after Hamas , gag an audio recording indicating the teens were already dead , then fight your own Supreme Court to prevent it from being released , all the while whipping up public support for a war in Gaza . What else could it be but retaliation for retaliations sake . Its pretty simple , a murder happens and you determine who is culpable and that is done by your Police and Judicial services and if its Hamas or members of Hamas or a rogue cell (which is who they ended up arresting) once you got something you tell Hamas turn these people over ( be it a rogue cell or even their own members) or face the consequences and if they don't then you fry their asses . But he (Netanyahu) didn't do that , at all. The question was would they (Hamas) put at risk a deal with the PA that puts to rest 7 years of discord between them in the hope that by doing so they could present a united front in negotiations and if that fails they will take it to the UN and the ICJ and would they risk this just to go out and murder 3 unimportant teens , utter nonsense . The rest of your sentence is just a bunch of red herring conflationary reasoning. You act as though these murders happened here or in any other counry where there has never been a history of violence. This has not and never will be the case in that part of the world. If it isn't people from different religions fighting eachother it is people of the same faith, but different sects. Are you saying that he should have sent the isreal police over into Gaza and had them question, who? As for being nonsence fr doing what the palistianians have been doing for decade in order to try something different, while still holding onto the statement that they want isreal eradicated is not nonsence. You act like hamas actually needs the pa for something. They have been seperated from them for how long and they've thrived. They are still getting supplied by other countries. It's nonsence to take these peoples word at face value.

When were the bodies found? You stated that the video was kept from the publc, but the coroner could not do his job unless the bodies were found. Did these areasts and bulldozing happen before or after the bodies were found and even if they were what makes you think that the rest is not just retaliation by the isrealites. As far as putting this into action to provoke isreal, it is not nonsence since you are describing an organization who first and formost wants to wipe isreal off the face of the map. Whatever they do else may simpy be window dressing. Anyone who would fire rockets from civilain areas in order to bring retaliation to those civilians don't care about the palistinians in their own area. What makes you thnk they give a rats rear end about the Palisianian authority?

The media is for the media. Their product is information and the juicier the better. They have all the incentive to sensationalize and no inclination to bring anything but cameras.

They are doiing the same thing Hamas is doing. Starting something that ultimately brings them more attention from the outside world. The only thing is that humas is setting up shop in civilian areas that gaurentees civilian casualties and these idiots on this vid are the only casualties of their endevour.

I couldn't make heads or tails of what supposidly went on in that recording. I heard something that sounded like shots, but how does that guarentee the shots went into these kids. I heard about the taking of these teens, but didn't hear about any of the rest. Anyway, how do you know that it wasn't a calculated attempt to bring upon their citizenry what happened. I'm sure they knew what Isreals sop for certain situations and knew if they did this that the Isrealites would automatically do that and they would respond thusly and it would most asuridly end up the way it did. It's like the old saying. "Don't start and S^it and no s^it will get started"' Please don't tell me there aren't people out there who don't start crap just to see if they can get crapped on. The following youtube is a very good example of this. It is also race baiting.

I'd like to know just how anyone would know how powerful a missile is if they had not either fired enough of these or experienced enough impacts by these to knew what the averages would be. Also I would like them to, if they are so dismissive of the fact that they are raining down in someone elses backyard experience them falling in their own neighborhood to see how they would like it. Sorry, but this whole backseat driver mentality really gets to me. It's like seeing someone being beaten half to death and casually sauntering past his bleeding body and casually remarking that he doesn't look that hurt. I'm not going to take sides in this, but I'm darn sure not going to dismiss either sides culpability for keeping it going or dismissing any pain they other perpetrates on the other. These people continue because it is to someone elses benifit for it to do so. If that weren't the case, there would not be a resuply of the weapondry used.

I'm not for either one of these groups. As far as I'm concerned The West begain this pissing contest when after they collonized Palistine and played footsey with the Palistinians and the Jews to get their aid in both wars. After promiising the world to both sides, they went in and stuck a foregn country right in the middle of a sovern country, said" Now, play nice" and walked away as if everything would work itself out. It didn't and what you see today is a continuation of what happened after Isreal was born. As for these rockets, you can't tell by one explosion that all the others have the same energy and I would not make obsevations of something I have never experienced. There are too many varibles within each impact to make such a claim that these are no more explosive than a bottle rocket. I've already commented on the foreign aid think that all countries should have stayed out of this to begin with. Including the United Nations that started this whole ball of wax in 1948.

If the masses won't listen to the messager because others demonize him/her do you really think the masses deserve the message?

To be fully prepared for life a person needs to know how to loose, as well as how to win, this doesn't teach that. Self esteem and egos need to be developed but not so much that they eradicate the importance of others and their contributions.

Amen! No argument from me on that one. Howabout the celebrity worship aspect? It amazes me that folks are actually more concerned with what their favorite celebrity is eating for lunch than is what the government is doing to them in their own backyards......" hero worship" has gone beyond the usual aspect...."what is trending"? Do you utter the word "like" multiple times on every sentence you pronounce? Do you have an insatiable lust to be like everyone else? "r" "u " cool? Gawd help us! :smile: It is the same . The new and shiny can be products as well as people. When has it never been so that those who gather together in groups and think alike seldom think at all. They just rehash old thoughts and pat each other on the backs, priding themselves for being so superior to those outside the group.

so, how may nations have we forced to adapt to our culture?? when you addict a person to drugs and then request that there adhere to your standards, with the indication that they will be cut off if they don't oblige you. Is that force? I think so. We've given our money out to gain influence and when the target country is used to that infusion of money into their economy is this not the same as an addiction?

So...how many nations have we forced to adapt to our culture, ect? Can you name them? ' One thing that always amazes me is how folks seem to 'verify' history's alternative scenarios to their own liking/political view....unfortunately, history does not offer alternative scenarios ...all we can do is speculate via our bias. Have you seen the bills that keeps these products subsidized? They cannot stand on their own merit (like oil and gas) but millions of our tax dollars are keeping them afloat so they can rip us off even more in the future. You really can't see how politics has poisoned climate science? Go down the line of those countries that we have supported with foreign aid and inundated with our products. How many countries have we either installed our own pick for that countries leader like The Shaw of Iran or leaders like Hosni Mubarak. I would suggest you look at the long history of colonization from the West which doesn't exactly exclude America. Try Cuba of the 1950's and more recently, the Philippians for examples of us pushing our own culture. I have seen money and the power it wields morph many things. I have also seen products and business practices that have prospered by green thinking. Everything from aerodynamics that help lessen mpg to atm machines that ask the user to forgo paper receipts to save a tree.

Not bad....not bad atall. :smile: The big difference today is the 'partisan divide' Is much more pronounced than it was back in the days of Regan and Carter. My cousin used to work for Carter and the DNC till about the mid 80's and he often tells me about how both parties of the house and senate used to meet and discuss legislation over drinks at a local bar....as friends!!. He told me that party affiliation didn't really matter back then. They respected each other and put the nation first. I think the real difference is the advent of opinionated news reporting and the internet. There is less face to face discussion and more and more anonymous individuals addicted to the power of the microphone over people who have abandoned their responsibility to think for themselves and search for their own facts. They would rather play the next new game on Playstation or see what others think about their last posting on Facebook, than deal with the real world. The puppet masters/ media sources they go to for information give them a pre-approved version of reality that they take to the voting booth and they empower their elected officials to act accordingly. These elected official poll the electorate and use the feedback to format their speeches and tell their pubic what they want to hear to gain reelection. The leadership of each party gives the media their talking points and the entire cycle repeats itself. Evolution occurs everywhere and never ceases. It is just as obvious that the partisan divide has never been so great as it is that we all have never been this old. This divide is a progression and as the material gains and resources begin to decay those who drive this political little game will get more and more desperate as they see their control over things diminish. Their is a point when the puppet masters can no longer control their puppets and I hope that I'm not around when that happens because I think a lot of things will come to and end.

I wouldn't call it a version of reality, but, I often wonder just what this globe would resemble if we isolated ourselves......Don't like what I imagined. The fact is that all of us in the "free world" have to stand together if we want to keep our freedom. Actually, If it weren't for the huge "green" lobby in America we could sell oil much cheaper to Europe that Russia is asking. Unfortunately , the said lobby is playing scientific politics (the worst kind) and not reporting the skeptic findings, and continue to use an unsubstantiated hypothesis as reason to heap a guilt trip on us all, and to push alternative energy sources that are not ready for prime time on us....The climate debate ain't science, it's politics. Putin knows that and probably bellows a huge laugh every time he downs a shot of 'wodka". Reality is a term I use to describe the manner in which we live. Our culture, our ethics, our morals and our products. As for imagining what the world would be in America stayed out of the worlds issues, ask yourself if there would have been a WWII if we didn't tip the hand of the Allies and bring defeat to Germany. From what i've gathered both sides where down almost to their needs and with a truce, the Germany Kaiser would not have been forced to abdicate. There would never had been a Weimer Republic to collapse and Hitler would have not had the anger of Germany to fuel his rise. What exactly are we free from? We have rights, not freedoms and is it not our government and our culture that is evolving and isn't that the issue that is on peoples minds. The greatest enemy humanity has is fear and the two parties that run our government has used that emotion effectively to turn the country against itself to promote themselves as the countries lone savior and you speak of freedom. What freedom? As far as the green lobby both the right and the left are embracing that. Have you not seen the products that our industry has created to cater the that same idealism. I have no facts about this issue and really don't give a rats butt about it. Fear runs rampant over the entire issue with the left afraid of what the planet is experiencing and the right fearing the cost of something they are skeptical about. As far as I'm concerned, If you throw enough money at something you will ultimately get the answers you agree with. I would like to have the revenue that such a sale would bring, but I would stress the need to find something each country could depend on without having their mouths surgically attached to another countries scrotum.

Amen to that....Only thing is, Obama is not Clinton or Bush...I'm not sure that he will make that sort of effort to 'get along' with a congress that is aligned against him. He is a divider instead of a uniter, An ideologue instead of a realist, A man whose self righteousness and ego may utterly destroy any sort of dialogue that could develop out of a split... hope I'm wrong.... To an Ideologue, Ideology is real and it's inconceivable that anything done in that name can be wrong. That's what is so dangerous about these people. They see where they are and where they want to go and anything destroyed inbetween is justified be the result and if the result doesn't accomplish what they set out to do, it is someone else fault, since, as I've said before. it is inconceivable that anything done in that name can be wrong. President Obama has not pleased anyone, fully. Not the left or the right. But as I remember Ronald Regan didn't fully please anyone ether. History has placed President Reagan in the light it has to those to whom he matters. The left and the right have their own opinion of the man and it will be the same with President Obama. The facts will be lost in a cloud of data and statistics that each side will us to justify their opinion of the man and the one fact that will never be fully realized is that President Reagan didn't destroy America, jus the desires of the left and President Obama will not destroy America, but the desires of the right. This too will pass!

What foreign policy? If he actually has one, I like to know just a few of the details......the aspects, what he trying to accomplish? Does he have a vision? Personally, I think he does...a thought that terrifies me. He wants to reduce US influence to the point of a glorified bystander. The man is simply not qualified for the position he ha been elected to undertake. elitist idealouges never make good presidents. Oh so typical....Those who have it rough are shat upon, those who worked their tails off to better things for themselves are the dumpers. I live paycheck to paycheck and I'll damned if i'm going to blame all of my shortcoming (at least financially) on "that rich guy". Utterly lame It also brought us Obama, Pelosi, Holder, Reid, McConnell, ect. Howabout Jerry Reubin, howabout Charles Manson? EH? Anybody who lets "icons/celebrities" influence them without proper delving into said celebrity angle is a moron who deserves what he/she gets. I agree that bonifide heros like MLK where a huge and good eye opener, but, today you have race baiters/perpetuaters like like Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and Eric Holder slamming those eyes shut to actual justice again. It's imagery, man. Icons have been apart of human history, probably from the dawn of time. Good or bad men living more by their fame or infamy far after they've lost their actual relevancy. It's not what they do or not do, It's what's attributed to them by the most people.

I am so relieved that our Northern brethren like our fearless leader....*snicker* ..is it the transitory mobile Red Lines that he draws? Too bad his Foreign Policy has been an unmitigated disaster and his economic policies a shamble. Obama is on the fast track for the most ineffective / weakest President in US history, his ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory is impressive. We have come from the defeat of the Soviet Union (Reagan) to being the laughing stock of the international diplomatic community ....well done Obama. If Obama was a Canadian PM you would need a passport to visit Quebec by now. Oh November 4th you cannot come fast enough. One question. How do you define failure. If President Obama set out to remove America's leadership from the world stage, wouldn't that mean he only failed at pleasing those who have a different world view. From what I've seen he has consistently operated with the goal of retreating America from the role we have become quite comfortable in and the rest of the world equally as comfortable to have us play. Ask yourself how the world would be if America were not there to step in and enforce it's own version of reality? Would the world be as it is today or would it have found it's own equilibrium and have made peace with itself, as much as it could possibly could, but still not have the angst it has pent up by the actions of a superpower bribing other governments to follow it's will? The world is a brutal place and brutes have been apart of human history from the dawn of time. They have reared their ugly head throughout history, systematically ravishing the area they occupied and just as suddenly vanished off the face of the world leaving only their memory in history. There was no central force guiding the world at that time and I really don't think the world actually needs one. America has simply buried what should have occurred in a flood of it's own influence and we are seeing today the world violently correcting itself to the degree it would have casually evolved over time if America had left it alone. What I think is happening is that the world has gotten so use to the promise of Americas protection that they've placed too much emphasis on social programs and not enough on defense as we have done the exact opposite. Ask yourself, would Europe be in the clutches of Russian oil and gas, if they would have to deal with Putin without the US? I think not. They would have diversified their supply so they could have dealt with him, without endangering themselves. To many in America count their prestige by how influential we are in the world and we are seeing the effects in our own country. We are spending way too much time running around the world being it's nanny and then demonizing those who concentrate social programs by calling it a nanny state. What is the bigger nanny. The worlds nanny or Americas nanny?