Syria

[Aonghus]

The only problem with that theory, Vindekarr is that chemical weapons are insanely easy to make. (There's a reason they're sometimes called "poor man's nukes.") Heck, the weapon in question, sarin, is the primary ingredient in many commercial insecticides. Any country that has an agricultural base already has access to nerve gas.

 

Mustard gas has precursor chemicals that are used for dying cloth. A small change is procedure to the dye that is used to make your blue jeans blue produces mustard gas.

 

Chlorine kinda speaks for itself. Blood and choking agents are a little more esoteric, but there precursors are still commonly available chemicals.

 

Some of the new stuff the Soviets deployed in their invasion of Afghanistan we still hadn't figured out while I was in, but they were probably just as easy to make with just as commonly available chemicals.

 

The only thing I can think of that the Russians might want to hide would be a Syrian nuclear program that the Russians were backing, but the Israeli airstrike a couple of years ago pretty much put the kabash on Assad's last attempt, and the Israelis have shown remarkably little tolerance for their Arab neighbors attempts in that direction.

[JimboUK]

Not me. Just let me go make a tin-foil hat, I've got a crazy theory. Maybe Russia has something they don't want the US to find in Syria? maybe they supplied the chemical weapons? It's highly unlikely, but then again, it's also highly unlikely that the Russian government, which normally every bit as warlike as our own governments, would be playing peacemaker out of the goodness of it's national heart. Who knows, I just hope we sit this one out. Airstrikes, dronestrikes, and Tomahawk missiles are just going to make the civilian death-toll even worse. We'd be much better off doing something about all the poor bloody refugees fleeing their homes, who have nowhere to go and that nobody wants to take in.

 

They came from the UK http://rt.com/news/uk-sarin-syria-weapons-chemical-573/

[Vindekarr]

Wow, so, this really is turning into an international fiasco, and we haven't fired a single shot in anger. As appalling as selling chemical weapons to the Syrians, at the point when the internal conflict was starting may be, I find it all too believable of the state the Western world is in at the moment. Unfortunately we've got a new war-monger walking into all this, which is Australia. Now we've gotten our farcical election out of the way, our newly elected PM has already dived in with both feet on the American's side, while further increasing border security to keep "illegal immigrants" the vast majority of whom arrive from Syria, Iran and Afghanistan seeking asylum.

 

And according to the new PM, Tony Abbott(who you'll soon see looks a lot like a chimp) they waived any right to Asylum or aid simply by trying to cross to Australia illegally. Like these guys could afford plane tickets... The end result is a few Syrians a month showing up, malnourished, without any personal belongings, most of them with hypothermia, and they're just being straight-up arrested without charge and thrown into a "detention centre" *(a high-security prison) located on an isolated island, which the media, public, and even UN aren't allowed anywhere near, and held for periods as long at 8 years.

 

I think the whole situation in Syria is deplorable. Yes, Al-Assad is a despot, he's an a**hole, and he looks like Magneto. But we in the West don't have any moral high ground. Our ideas for "assistance" have involved giving said despot (allegedly) sarin gas weapons, and the new idea, which is to park an aircraft carrier or ten off the coast and bomb Syria into a slightly more finely ground sort of rubble than it already is. And as for all the millions of innocent Syrians said bombing campaign would force from their homes, who gives half a f*** about them, eh? We've already decided we're going to help them by bombing the f*** out of everything, it would be greedy of them to expect a second favour, let alone actual useful humanitarian aid.

 

If the Western alliance was half the "righteous juggernaut" it wishes it was then we'd have boots on the ground in Turkey, helping out the people who've been displaced by the fighting, and actually trying to make a difference. Sure, our leaders have stated that the whole point of getting involved is to "protect the Syrian people" But wouldn't we be doing a more effective job of it, by actually putting people on the ground, helping to deal with the wounded, feed the hungry, and actually stand a hope in hell of surviving? Rather than simply bombing the country flat and then stealing everything of value?

Edited September 12, 2013 by Vindekarr

[Lisnpuppy]

Please don't throw "most Americans" under the bus , Vin. It isn't even close to most. What you read on the net is as always...an extremely vocal minority.

 

As for this situation I will leave with this quote:

"It is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad." --James Madison

 

It is a broken record. The government here is ignoring its people and their wishes to do what it wants to do. If we wanted to help we would be doing many things different not to mention, as some have said...there are atrocities going on in the world, all over the place that we have basically ignored. Thing of which the happenings are not in doubt and hundreds of thousands being hurt or killed. Don't hear a dang thing about that do you?

 

Makes me want to put my head through the window pane.

[Aonghus]

"And you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that you be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in various places.
"

Edited September 11, 2013 by Aonghus

[Colinpark]

Didn't realize there was a mod called "Syria" for skyrim, although I suspect loading it will corrupt your game. So the AQ will be the Stormcloaks and Assad is the Imperials, Do I have it right? So who is Dragonborn, Putin or Obama, my bet is on Putin, but if Obama opens up the console and types "TGM" He can go in and lay waste to everything.

[sukeban]

@Vindekarr

 

Absolutely right! If we truly wanted to make a positive difference we would start up a Berlin Airlift type of opperation to help the refugees in Jordan/Lebanon/Turkey and bankroll some Japanese (no baggage in Middle East) medics to go and take care of civilians inside the country. Might not make a difference to hardcore jihadists, but it'd a) be the right thing to do, and b) demonstrate to everyone else in the region that we can do something other than drop bombs. It might also prevent the children suffering in the refugee camps from turning into jihadists themselves sometime in the future, which most definitely is in the interests of us all.

 

I also wonder how much support the rebels actually have among the people of Syria nowadays. Kerry himself estimated that the entire body of fighters is something like 75k-100k, which, out of an adult population of 17m, is really not significant. Obviously, not every rebel sympathizer is fighting, but even if every fighter has fifty sympathizers, that is still only 5m people out of 17m, which is not even 30% of the population. Opinion polling is clearly hard to come by in a war-torn country (though they managed it in Iraq!), but one would have to imagine that Assad truly does represent the preference of a large majority of Syrians. Perhaps it was not always like this, especially back in 2011, but, when faced with a choice between Assad and Al-Qaeda, a little political repression seems preferable to hardline Islamic rule and ethnic cleansing.

 

@Colinpark

 

Bwahaha, that's amazing. Meanwhile, the NSA types "TFC" and "TWF" and goes around spying on everything. Upon finding something interesting, it's "COC GUANTANAMO" or else or a one-shot "KILL" for the overhead drone. Bwahaha.

Edited September 11, 2013 by sukeban

[Lisnpuppy]

"And you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that you be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in various places.

"

Be careful as religious debates are not permitted here. Thank you.~Lisnpuppy

[Gracinfields]

@Vindekarr Most Americans that I know, don't want anything to do with what is going on there in Syria. Even I think we should stay out, unless the UN calls for action in the area. As for the rebel forces we do know how many of those are part of al-Qaeda forces sent in to help the rebel forces. ATM thanks to Obama's big mouth he painted the US into a corner and the only real way out is letting the Russians plan, letting his plan fail in Congress (to blame it on Congress), or hold out till the UN states the results of the investigation, all to save face. Also thanks to his comments the initiative was lost and most of those targets were moved to new locations including the chemical weapons that were targets for the first missile strikes.

[JimboUK]

I don't think you can hold a people responsible for the actions of their governments, governments stopped listening to the people years ago and voting a new lot in makes little difference as they just carry on where the others left off.