Trying to understand

[Michieux]

In a now-locked topic I wrote this:

"Hello mod authors, I am a 71-year-old sometime gamer who loves mods and what they bring to my enjoyment of the games I play, although I have only added mods to Fallout 3 and 4, Fallout New Vegas, and a couple of Elder Scrolls games (thank you for those!). My reason for writing is this: adding mods to any game can be a messy and harrowing experience, and one I don't relish, and is the reason I often leave a broken game alone for months at a time before mustering my declining mental faculties to start all over again, by reinstalling my game, etc. So, I think collections would be a godsend for folks like me, and something I would be willing to pay for in cold hard cash. So, please consider this when deciding whether to opt in to collections or not. Thank you for all that you do."

 

From the comments that followed I realise that I didn't express myself very well. By saying I would be (and am) willing to pay for the convenience of collections, I meant that to imply that I would be willing to pay the authors of the mods in that collection, as well as those who are curating and maintaining those collections.

 

Here's why: Some time ago I downloaded a mod pack via Wabbajack for Fallout 4. The result was such a bad experience that after playing FO4 for a few months I just gave up and deleted the mod pack, reinstalled FO4, and haven't played it since. Instead, I've been playing a modded version of FONV and thoroughly enjoying it, but only after spending innumerable hours downloading each mod and reading each mod's instructions, arranging and rearranging things and getting them to play nice with each other and the base game - hours I won't bother wasting again.

 

Creating mod packs seems a logical next step for a site like this and I'd like to see it succeed, but only if the authors of the mods being considered for a pack are brought along with the creation and maintenance of the pack and adequately remunerated for their work.

 

Thank you for reading.

[euph]

Guys... how many more of you are trying to end up in a very specific, not nice, thread in this site?

 

Is it really worth it, to try to catch the sea with your bare hands? It's quite clear that this isn't going to change unless people throw mass lawsuits at the site after the 5th of August, or there is a mass exodus of modders and their content.

 

I lost access to the GMAD because I deleted my mods when I ran out of real life time to mod (real dev here) "for the public". I still mod for myself, at my own pace and time, in more than just Bethesda games (nowadays, mostly Unity games since it's what I work with IRL). That GMAD access is based on you having an active mod AFTER you gain access, to me, is not ok (once a modder, always a modder), but I can't change it.

 

I posted my concerns, both in the GMAD (before I lost access) and here, in another thread. Screaming until I get kicked out of the site, won't change anything.

 

Am I in favor of modders losing their IP? No, and Copyright wins over ToS. Those who wish to take action after the 5th, should be aware of this. Also be aware that you need to prove Copyright to win.

Am I in favor of modpacks (or whatever they're called in whatever site)? I'm neutral. If I had mods and they ended up in a modpack, it would be very simple: get it updated or get lost.

 

We've all (or, at least, most of us) spoken about what we think, our opinions, positions and courses of action. Now, it's a matter of "what's coming?". Will there be competition for the Nexus? Some people say, yes. Will there be lawsuits? Some people say, yes.

 

I've never been in so many discord servers as I am now, but I prefer that, to losing half my mods in several games (including, but not limited to, Bethesda games).

 

After the 5th, the gloves are off on both sides, and honestly? I'm glad I'm not a part of this "mod author mess" anymore. I have enough to stress me in real life (who wants crunch? I give out some for free). All I can say is: good luck to all those involved, no matter which side you're on.

[xrayy]

if i as a modder have porblems to maintain my personal mod collections without getting sometimes confused because of dependencies and system requirements (like change of the hw or the os and so on) how will a normal user or a mod collection curator will do his lob or play the game without the experience and the knowlege of someone who knows how modding works and it has to be applied and how complex the porblems of each individial user setup can be ?

and there are even more things to take into account. so at least i don't believe the fairy tale of all the of a majority of happy mod collections users.

maybe in some very simple games with simple structures but at least not in bethesda open world games, still fighting with game engine, open world, complexity, and setup related bugs.

[HeyYou]

if i as a modder have porblems to maintain my personal mod collections without getting sometimes confused because of dependencies and system requirements (like cange of the hw or the os) how will a normal user including a mod collection curator with will do his lob and play the game without the experience and the knowlege of someone who knows how modding works and has to be applied and how complex the porblems of each individial user setup can be ?

and there are even more things to take into account. so i least i don't believe the fairy tale of all the of a majority of happy mod collections users.

maybe in some very simple games with simple structures but at least not in bethesda open world games, still fighting with game engine and setup related bugs.

A working collection vs a non-working collection is likely all about complexity. What mods it includes. If they are all pretty straightforward, then a collection that works on one machine, *should* work on all machines. As the installation process gets more complicated, the higher the likelihood that something is going to break.

[euph]

if i as a modder have porblems to maintain my personal mod collections without getting sometimes confused because of dependencies and system requirements (like change of the hw or the os and so on) how will a normal user or a mod collection curator will do his lob or play the game without the experience and the knowlege of someone who knows how modding works and it has to be applied and how complex the porblems of each individial user setup can be ?

and there are even more things to take into account. so at least i don't believe the fairy tale of all the of a majority of happy mod collections users.

maybe in some very simple games with simple structures but at least not in bethesda open world games, still fighting with game engine, open world, complexity, and setup related bugs.

Doesn't even have to be mods. Just look at how many people complain that "Game ABC doesn't run in my 20 year old rotten potato with win7/XP!" and then blame the devs because the game doesn't run in their rotten potato from 20 years ago... :dry:

 

Same logic with mods and modpacks. Update the game/mods, instead of complaining that "tHiNgS dOn'T wOrK".

 

 

A working collection vs a non-working collection is likely all about complexity. What mods it includes. If they are all pretty straightforward, then a collection that works on one machine, *should* work on all machines. As the installation process gets more complicated, the higher the likelihood that something is going to break.

 

Sorry, but I lost count to how many people I've seen grabbing mods/modpacks for rigs that are running medium/high specs, and try to run them in rotten potatoes, thus complaining about mod/modpack not working when they don't even have the specs to run said mod/modpack.

 

It doesn't even have to be a long mod list to do this.

 

 

 

[xrayy]

 

if i as a modder have porblems to maintain my personal mod collections without getting sometimes confused because of dependencies and system requirements (like cange of the hw or the os) how will a normal user including a mod collection curator with will do his lob and play the game without the experience and the knowlege of someone who knows how modding works and has to be applied and how complex the porblems of each individial user setup can be ?

and there are even more things to take into account. so i least i don't believe the fairy tale of all the of a majority of happy mod collections users.

maybe in some very simple games with simple structures but at least not in bethesda open world games, still fighting with game engine and setup related bugs.

A working collection vs a non-working collection is likely all about complexity. What mods it includes. If they are all pretty straightforward, then a collection that works on one machine, *should* work on all machines. As the installation process gets more complicated, the higher the likelihood that something is going to break.

 

is this sarcastic or a joke ? you think a mod collection works the same on a gaming desktop with win emulation on linux, a win 10 pc and an optimus laptop or a pc even without a separated gpu ? and believe me, many users don't even know the difference of these setups and the different problems. and these are just a few examples.

 

[HeyYou]

 

 

if i as a modder have porblems to maintain my personal mod collections without getting sometimes confused because of dependencies and system requirements (like cange of the hw or the os) how will a normal user including a mod collection curator with will do his lob and play the game without the experience and the knowlege of someone who knows how modding works and has to be applied and how complex the porblems of each individial user setup can be ?

and there are even more things to take into account. so i least i don't believe the fairy tale of all the of a majority of happy mod collections users.

maybe in some very simple games with simple structures but at least not in bethesda open world games, still fighting with game engine and setup related bugs.

A working collection vs a non-working collection is likely all about complexity. What mods it includes. If they are all pretty straightforward, then a collection that works on one machine, *should* work on all machines. As the installation process gets more complicated, the higher the likelihood that something is going to break.

 

is this sarcastic or a joke ? you think a mod cooection works the same on a gaming desktop with win emulation on linux, a win 10 pc and an optimus laptop or a pc even without a seperated gpu ? and believe me, many users don't even know the differrence of these setups and the different porblems. and these are just a few examples.

 

 

Perhaps I should have specified "Windows-based". As the folk with the esoteric operating systems, and emulators, are unlikely to be using collections. That is not the demographic collections are aimed at.

 

Edit: And let me add: Capable hardware. Yeah, if some guy running the game on his laptop with integrated graphics, downloads a 4K texture collection, then no, that simply isn't going to work. Need to apply at least a little bit of logic here.

Edited July 28, 2021 by HeyYou

[xrayy]

 

 

 

if i as a modder have porblems to maintain my personal mod collections without getting sometimes confused because of dependencies and system requirements (like cange of the hw or the os) how will a normal user including a mod collection curator with will do his lob and play the game without the experience and the knowlege of someone who knows how modding works and has to be applied and how complex the porblems of each individial user setup can be ?

and there are even more things to take into account. so i least i don't believe the fairy tale of all the of a majority of happy mod collections users.

maybe in some very simple games with simple structures but at least not in bethesda open world games, still fighting with game engine and setup related bugs.

A working collection vs a non-working collection is likely all about complexity. What mods it includes. If they are all pretty straightforward, then a collection that works on one machine, *should* work on all machines. As the installation process gets more complicated, the higher the likelihood that something is going to break.

 

is this sarcastic or a joke ? you think a mod cooection works the same on a gaming desktop with win emulation on linux, a win 10 pc and an optimus laptop or a pc even without a seperated gpu ? and believe me, many users don't even know the differrence of these setups and the different porblems. and these are just a few examples.

 

 

Perhaps I should have specified "Windows-based". As the folk with the esoteric operating systems, and emulators, are unlikely to be using collections. That is not the demographic collections are aimed at.

 

but that is the reality. users want to use the collections if they are "so good" and so "so compatible" and so "straight foward". the porblem is - this is just a marketing gag but far away from reality. the reality i see is that the majority, the more inexperienced users are not aware of the porblems that will arise with this.

 

read what michieux posted from the 71 year old user and his wabbajack experience. these is just one example for a "normal" user

 

@euph - it is sad what happenes with you and all the other mod authors. it was easily foreseeable and because of that a total surprise for me. i've never thought that nexusmods would ever act like this.

[euph]

Perhaps I should have specified "Windows-based". As the folk with the esoteric operating systems, and emulators, are unlikely to be using collections. That is not the demographic collections are aimed at.

 

Edit: And let me add: Capable hardware. Yeah, if some guy running the game on his laptop with integrated graphics, downloads a 4K texture collection, then no, that simply isn't going to work. Need to apply at least a little bit of logic here.

 

Say... after all this time modding... do you really think the average mod user has any good sense of logic? They're the very reason that modpacks exist, and even like that, they manage to do the wrong thing. :laugh:

 

[xrayy]

the problem is, that in the meantime experienced users and skilled mod authors can foresee the future to some extent and many even give up to explain the obvious problems that will arise based on wrong expectations spreaded by the smooth-talkers here.