Company of Heroes 2: Removed from sale in Russia.

[Hardwaremaster]

Chalk up another one to add to the trash can that is Human Reason and Logic. While I was gone for a while to do some personal things, I was browsing the Internet and found this article on Destructoid. And I couldn't believe it was happening again, but yes, it indeed turned out to be true, Its Command & Conquer Generals all over again. The news was originally broke by Polygon.

 

Disclaimer: May contain sensitive topics viewer discretion advised. :excl:

Here is a couple of comments from the article, by other posters, that basically states my thoughts.

 

This one was posted by Caimdark who posted:

Is it video game censoring season, or something? In just a few weeks we've had Saints Row and that other I forget the name banned in Australia, and now this. I get why this upsets the Russians. If any one singular country could be said to have said to have saved the world from Nazism, it was not the United States, it was the U.S.S.R, and the single most important event in the war wasn't D-day, it was the battle of Stalingrad. Hitler devoted 60% of his forces to the Eastern front, and the U.S.S.R lost and sacrificed more than anyone else by far. Nearly half of the 50 million casualties of the war were soviets, Russia was reduced to rubble. Economically, the war had very different consequences east and west: Hitler literally kick started the American economic boom, while at the same time ruining the Soviet Union. Despite all that, they have to watch their efforts reduced to little more than a footnote in the western world, a world that wouldn't exist without them, while western war efforts, and American in particular, is endlessly glorified and gets pretty much all the credit. When western storytelling does remember that, hey, Russia was in the war too, they are usually reduced to sadistic commanders, mindless drones, lots of atrocities and brutality, and little else, which, again, just serves to glorify western troops by comparison. Even in Poland, the country with more reasons to hate Russia than anyone else, Company of Heroes 2 didn't go over too well. All that said, it's still not cool to pull the game from sale. It's actually somewhat sad that so many Russians wanted the game banned, while their own free speech is more and more suppressed by their government, Not cool, Russians. Not cool.

 

This one was posted by Usedtabe who wrote:

Yes. Let's forget that Russia had their own concentration camps, murdered a whole city of innocent civilians and blamed it on the Nazis (search Katyn Forest Massacre) and brutalized German civilians with rape and murder, even victims as young as 5. I always laugh at the Internets limited, almost grade school history of WW2 boiling down to "they weren't Nazis so they were good guys". Enjoy knowing that Russian war criminals responsible for many rapes and murders of German civilians in their concentration camps are living the good life in Israel despite being wanted war criminals. That's right, Bolshevism was heavily influenced by Judaism. But hey, it's okay when they did it because they're our "greatest ally". lol

 

My thoughts are as follows:

That right there is my pretty much my opinion, Political Correctness is basically censorship. I don't personally understand what the Russian Gamers are complaining about. I thoroughly enjoyed the game just like I did the last one, I thought it was realistic and articulate in such a way that there really was nothing "pretty" about the first or the second game, just like it should be in my opinion. Because I believe, there's is no "heroes" or supposed "good guys" or "bad guys" in warfare. It all depends on which side you are on, or, to coin a phrase: "One mans Terrorist, is another mans Freedom Fighter." Now people can try and look at this from an ethical or moral point of view but that does not change facts, it merely colors them in different lighting, every single country or populace that was involved in that war is guilty on some level of barbarity and savagery. :dry:

 

The main thing I take issue with this, is, why does this kinda of thing keep happening, due to the fact that no one ever goes into war and comes out clean. All things considered I think the Russians made the best out of their situation during WW2. I don't think anyone could ask for more then that, but then again I suppose that's what happens when you become Politically Incorrect. Australia's position I understand a little more due to, hey, that's the law over there. (Even though I think Its stupid.) This apparently started because of a argument, that claimed the first game portrayed the Axis and Allies better then the Comintern Forces. (Even though the Eastern Front is known to be way worse then the Western Front. Instead you ban a game all because someone felt, that there nation was being slandered by a presentation of a war, that there country was in, that happened almost 100 years ago.) :facepalm:

 

I mean all you have to due is look at what happened at Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Dresden, Holodomor, Auschwitz, and countless others cases that I'm not going to bother listing. I would like to say one thing however: Declassified Documents. (Congratulations Russia. You have successfully banned a game nationwide, with that many signatures, in relation to your overall population, regardless of the fact how many wanted it or not, without resorting to piracy they would have bought it to support the developers.)

 

Anyway I'm going to stop now before this post gets any longer: let me know what you fellows think, but this is one of reasons why I feel that Developers and the Industry in general, has stagnated from taking risks because they're afraid of the reaction they may receive. I wonder whats going to happen, when Grand Theft Auto V comes out, it should be interesting to behold.

 

Let the Controversy Commence! I'm bugging out I'll see you guys later. :nuke:

Edited August 8, 2013 by Hardwaremaster

[Hardwaremaster]

 

Edit: Found an excellent overview of the situation about why the Russians are angry about the game in question: Click to 12:23.

He makes some interesting points, but I would like to remind everyone, about how bad Germans are portrayed in every single World War 2 game that exists to date, you don't ever hear them complaining about it. I'm beginning to wonder what makes the Russian People think that their case is special, because Relic Entertainment are not exactly known for what I would like to call Realistic Authenticity, because it is in fact a game, that is totally ridiculous, for the reasoning of gameplay and effects.

 

 

Here is what I wrote earlier, before I found this video by TotalBiscuit and looking at the larger picture and my previous post something does still indeed feel off to me, but, maybe its because I don't really play Company of Heroes for the story because it has always been inaccurate and terrible. Also I didn't know Relic had made those stupid statements which did not help anyone.

 

 

 

The main problem I have with this, after watching the video a couple of times, I seem to have found what was annoying me. They seem, or the presenter at least, has a romanticized view of history, he talks about how better the Americans are portrayed in contrast to the Russians. With the "bravery" and supposed "heroics" of the American Soldiers that he says makes the Russians look like "cowardly monsters" and the Americans are the "angels." This is where I have to laugh, he kept using D-Day as his heuristic so that's what I'm going to do, he says the Americans are brave, for charging head first machine-gun fire for country not there own. I want you to read that line a couple of times. This is not courage, this is stupidity masquerading as bravery. The Americans cannot retreat in this position, where would they go, back into the sea? Maybe they can turn their Higgins Boats around in the middle of combat with ordinance raining onto their heads? (The Higgins Landing Craft was known to be horribly designed in the first place with the door opening from the front exposing the entire squad to machine gun where you could lose all of your men in a couple of seconds to incoming rounds.) This is known as a Kill-Box where you put your men into a position where they are surrounded between death so they cant retreat. Americans are known in certain circles for a high desertion rate with little combat encounters. D-Day and the Battle of Stalingrad are two very different animals, the man talking in the video, does not seem to realize that the battle in the game was Omaha Beach. One of many battles taking place at the same time across a front-line miles wide, realistically, British, Canadian, and many other nationality's were involved here that we did not see in the game. You don't see people complaining about the Armenian Genocide or the Native American Genocide or even this: link. link.. If anyone, I feel, has the right to complain it is in all actuality, the Germans, who have been made out to be the Devil Incarnate and the Antichrist for decades. Also the stuff shown in the game did happen, but, it was completely rare.

 

 

 

Here is a portion of what Sun Tzu said about Kill-Boxes and Combat:

 

 

 

Throw your soldiers into positions whence there is no escape, and they will prefer death to flight. If they will face death, there is nothing they may not achieve. Officers and men alike will put forth their uttermost strength. Soldiers when in desperate straits lose the sense of fear. If there is no place of refuge, they will stand firm. If they are in the heart of a hostile country, they will show a stubborn front. If there is no help for it, they will fight hard. Thus, without waiting to be marshaled, the soldiers will be constantly on the qui vive [be on the alert or lookout]; without waiting to be asked, they will do your will; without restrictions, they will be faithful; without giving orders, they can be trusted.

Water shapes its course according to the nature of (lie ground over which it flows; the soldier works out his victory in relation to the foe whom he is facing. Therefore, just as water retains no constant shape, so in warfare there are no constant conditions. The five elements: Water, fire, wood, metal, earth, are not always equally predominant; the four seasons make way for each other in turn. There are short days and long; the moon has its periods of waning and waxing.

http://www.quoteswise.com/sun-tzu-quotes.html

 

 

Edited August 8, 2013 by Hardwaremaster

[Aegrus]

I understand their reasoning, but I'm firmly against censorship on principal.

[JimboUK]

I think what has upset a lot of people is Relics claim that the game is historically accurate, it's not and it lazily wheeled out every trope in the book, that said supporting a ban it is idiotic, those doing so are playing into the hands of control freaks.

[Dark0ne]

I can understand both sides of the argument.

 

Frankly if I had a chance to completely remove the utter insult the film U-571 is to British war history, I would.

 

Oh, and Pearl Harbour. Obviously not for the British reason.

[Hardwaremaster]

I think what has upset a lot of people is Relics claim that the game is historically accurate, it's not and it lazily wheeled out every trope in the book, that said supporting a ban it is idiotic, those doing so are playing into the hands of control freaks.

 

That's what I'm saying Jim, I mean for starters I looked at it from a gamer perspective, so, the first things I looked at were the things that make it a good game. Which is gameplay, sound, graphics, etc. Multiplayer is as fun as always but I think that's because its not that different from the first game, they just streamlined everything. As for the tropes I feel as if those were put in there almost for gameplay reasons alone, because that's the only thing that makes sense to me. I am curious though when you said historical accuracy, are you referencing to the way, America teaches it, England teaches it, or the way Russia teaches it? Cause there is a big difference. And as you said supporting a ban is idiotic for the reasons it wont change, alter, or remove the way the game currently is so I didn't see the point in doing so, but that was my opinion anyway. What I was referring to was the fact that the presenter on the video seemed to have been romanticizing it, to the point that it was slightly weird, contrived and was glorifying warfare and combat for the sole reason, that the Soviets, are not as terrible as the game makes them out to be.

 

I can understand both sides of the argument.

 

Frankly if I had a chance to completely remove the utter insult the film U-571 is to British war history, I would.

 

Oh, and Pearl Harbour. Obviously not for the British reason.

 

I've not seen the movie U-571, whats wrong with that one? And Pearl Harbor, yeah, I'm not even touching that one. Movies in general are almost the worst kind of place to get Information about warfare and history because of sensationalism.

 

P.S. I love the part in the video where a Soviet Soldier, shoots a surrendering German, and the Russian in the video mockingly says: poor Nazi. Almost with a murderous enjoyment, without realizing that, the German in question is a what appears to be a Wehrmacht Soldier and not even a high ranking one at that. Yet he called him a Nazi anyway, that is a stereotype itself conjured up from Hollywood and various propaganda mediums. Most of the population of Nazi Germany from 1936-1945 was predominately Roman Catholic, as Nazi was short for National Socialist Party. Nazi was pretty much only the Waffen-SS, Politicians, Bureaucrats, Gestapo and so on and on. Its kind of like saying all American Soldiers are Democrats or Republicans, although, Germany only had a one party system at the time, my point still stands.

 

Take this picture for instance.

 

 

http://0.tqn.com/d/history1900s/1/0/Z/P/hitler19.jpg

 

 

This one is interesting.

 

 

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-fV1EtvPzjOg/URuKsEtCa5I/AAAAAAAAkCU/hABndEQMUXc/s1600/Adolf+Hitler+Man+of+the+Year,+1938+TIME.jpg

 

 

As is this one.

 

 

http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1940/1101400101_400.jpg

 

 

 

Here's a good article about Catholicism in Germany: 1936-1945. :huh:

 

 

http://atheism.about.com/b/2006/05/24/the-catholic-church-in-nazi-germany-book-notes-pope-benedict-xvi.htm

 

 

 

I mean it is getting a little ridiculous at this point while Germany is being constantly misrepresented as well as Russia.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Hardwaremaster

[EnaiSiaion]

CoH2 currently has a user score of 1.5 on metacritic after a flood of Russian 0/10 votes. The next worst rated game with a >80% critic score is Dota2 with 8.0...

 

Well... global markets, global sensitivities.

[Hallabalooga]

No graphics or gameplay can justify taking a s*** on a historic "wound" of such magnitude. And you know what, enough is enough, internet is not only western anymore, so get used to this fact as soon as possible, unless you want to get these kinds of things continue to shock you in the future. So yes, Enai is right and thread author should carefully study his last sentence, hint : market is an important word.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Hallabalooga

[Zewp]

I understand both sides of the argument and I even side slightly more with the russians here, but I'm not going to lie, they also overreacted. The way some of the russians carry on, you'd swear Relic actually murdered their family members,

 

 

And you know what, enough is enough, internet is not only western anymore, so get used to this fact as soon as possible, unless you want to get these kinds of things continue to shock you in the future.

I don't get this. What relevance does this statement have here? None of us have an issue with non-western countries, so why make this an issue of 'russia vs the West?'

Edited August 7, 2013 by Zewp

[Hardwaremaster]

No graphics or gameplay can justify taking a s*** on a historic "wound" of such magnitude. And you know what, enough is enough, internet is not only western anymore, so get used to this fact as soon as possible, unless you want to get these kinds of things continue to shock you in the future. So yes, Enai is right and thread author should carefully study his last sentence, hint : market is an important word.

 

Yes it can, its a game, and I played it as such. The game did not rewrite history, everyone knows the real history, so I don't see the problem. The game is a rudimentary work of fiction, at this point, set into a historical background. Russia has a history of whitewashing history, as does America, England, France, every country does this. Stalin was a dictator in one form or another, take the Holodomor for instance, mention that, and either, someone will dodge it, sidestep, ignore it, or try to justify it, even sometimes outright denying it. The Nazi salute originally came from America, not the National Socialist Party so you should be blaming them for that. Fascism used to be a branch of Socialism, which was all filed under Communism, so literally Russia was fighting a branch of their own ideology during that war. A monster that the world created back during the Bolshevik Revolutions of 1917. Hitler was a soldier during WW1, remember, he saw what was happening to his country, during, and after WW1 which lead to his raise to power a few decades later in 1936. He used the anger the German people felt, about the Treaty of Versailles, because it was destroying Germany's Economy, which was really the only thing Hitler, supposedly, fixed while he was in power. Hitler was a dictator and a tyrant, as well as Stalin, I mean what did people expect was going to happen, when two dictators fight each other.

At one point in time even Germany and Russia were allied to split Poland between themselves. :rolleyes:

 

People are Hypocritical when it comes to warfare, go to any place like YouTube and listen to how they talk about Nazis like they are animals that are only good for being slaughtered. People dehumanize their enemy's and are desensitized to violence themselves, they are bloodthirsty and violent when certain keywords show up. That is because the word Nazi is a label that creates certain images, forming the picture they are animals rather then human beings with real emotions. As I said previously Nazi was more of a political ideology then some special religion, reserved more for Politics and Special Forces more then Standard Ground Infantry.

 

So yes, Enai is right and thread author should carefully study his last sentence, hint : market is an important word.

I don't get this. What relevance does this statement have here? None of us have an issue with non-western countries, so why make this an issue of 'Russia vs the West?'

 

I don't see why you brought up Telemarketing either, markets are based on peoples interests and opinions: overreaction and undereaction and sensitivity all effect it because people run on emotion not logic. It doesn't matter whether or not it is correct or not because of peoples emotions and beliefs. :ohdear:

 

What do you think Enai was talking about: haters are going to hate. :dance:

 

I play these type of games, because they are games, and I would rate this one, about a eight to nine out of ten, the graphics are excellent, I get a stable 60 FPS, the sounds pack a punch, I've not had any bugs or crashes, gameplay is streamlined from the last installment. Multiplayer is awesome when you get a bunch of people with mics together for a match. But then again I don't play Strategy Games for the story, I play them to, strategize with friends over Multiplayer, therefore the mechanics of a game are more important to me, then some mysterious, ambiguous, intention by the developers, at telling a narrative I can scarcely define.

 

With all that being said though, it was atrocious the way Relic Entertainment presented it, could have been done much better.

I understand both sides of the argument and I even side slightly more with the Russians here, but I'm not going to lie, they also overreacted. The way some of the Russians carry on, you'd swear Relic actually murdered their family members.

 

I was thinking more along the lines, that they felt the Kremlin had been infiltrated, and Relic Entertainment rewrote the Russian History Documents and captured the Russian Government to brainwash everyone. :pinch:

 

Also see my previous post about Catholic Nazis, because that's what they were, even Hitler was, so, I'll let you figure it out.

 

By the way, for clarification, the alleged Nazi salute came from America, by way of Rome. :hurr:

 

 

 

http://forgottenhistoryblog.com/the-official-american-flag-salute-used-to-be-a-hitler-salute/

 

 

Edited August 8, 2013 by Hardwaremaster