Helpful Links, References, and News

[smr1957]

Potential Consequences of Removing Mods Mid-Playthrough

Until the release of the Creation Kit for Starfield, there is much that we do not yet know, and what we do know is often based upon previous Bethesda games or is outright supposition and speculation.  However, with the advent of modding, even though - and despite - the proper tools for constructing mods being not yet available, it would be seriously remiss if the potential issues concerning the use of mods were not addressed in some form.  The below is based on large part of what we DO know of how Bethesda has handled save information in previous games, and uses educated assumptions as to how that information and data is stored and handled in Starfield's saves.  While it is currently in a very rudimentary form, this information will be continually updated as more information becomes available.  However, it should be viewed as a "best practices" approach to the topic being discussed.

NOTE - Where quotes are used, a link to the original source is provided.  
Many of these quotes were made in reference to prior Bethesda games (specifically, in most cases, Skyrim), but are currently presumed to hold true for Starfield as well, until verified information and official tools prove otherwise.  As stated, it is a "best practices" viewpoint.

First, a "short and sweet" generalization of the principle idea:

"Data gets added to the save and becomes persistent. When you remove a persistent reference you run the risk of crashing if you trigger it again. Until we know more, all mods that include a plugin should be considered suspect."
(Text contributed by Avrie - personal communication)

Below is a more detailed and in depth discussion of the potential issues involved.

Procedurally generated planets and saves  - NOTE: The information regarding this may be incorrect.  For a full discussion of this, see this post by Aurreth:

 

Once a location has been procedurally generated, that overall general information is stored in the save.  While specific details of Points of Interest may possibly be recreated and changed upon a later visit, the location of those previously placed, as well as the overall major terrain features (including discovered traits), will remain the same.

Thus, any mod that is used that changes features of that terrain (other than pure retextures/meshes) or adds hand placed Points of Interest, will have those changes baked into the save.  Removal of that mod will result in those features no longer being available to load when that location is next visited - thus resulting in errors - up to and including CTDs.  Because of this, should such a mod be removed, it would be necessary to roll back to a save prior to the installation of that mod, or start a new game.

Ships

Any mod that adds or changes things as regards ship construction and the modules that are used in constructing ships (other than purely texture replacers), should be considered NOT safe to remove, as removal would also remove the items already existing in any previously built ship utilizing those features, thus resulting in, at best, missing sections, and, at worst, a CTD.

Outposts

What was written for Ships as regards mods which add or change things, should also be considered to apply to Outpost building.  Removing a mod that adds or changes things may result in either missing features or in outright CTDs.

NG+

Entering the Unity moves the game forward into NG+.  One result of this is that, for all practical purposes, the player is starting a new game, with only Player Character information and results due to certain player actions being carried forward.  All other things are effectively wiped from the save.  What effect this will have should a player remove a mod before entering Unity is not currently known.  Some things will be completely reset to their initial situations and thus removal of a mod affecting those reset data points may be possible with no adverse consequences; other things may still have data points tied into the the NG+ save and may create issues.  As of now, the more conservative approach of not removing a mod (other than purely texture/mesh replacers) is what is recommended, as there may be unforeseen consequences to an NG+ game should a mod be removed before entering Unity.
 

[smr1957]

Just to clarify a bit as regards my post about removing mods: how the game handles certain features (such as procedural generation, for example), is beyond the scope of the post I made, which is only intended to make people aware of the potential for issues which may occur when modding if a mod is removed, not to explain definitively how the game works - which no one other than the developers, at this point in time, can do. And certainly not without the CK (and other properly constructed tools) being available.

So, the main purpose at this point in time is to make people aware that removing mods may have a detrimental effect on their save - not to state definitively how saves operate or how the game generates features. That will all come later as we find out more.

[smr1957]

ADDED:

Stability and Troubleshooting by Aikido

to Section 5 - General Troubleshooting

[smr1957]

This vid covering ship construction may prove interesting and useful:

 

[smr1957]

Bethesda just announced their next Beta update for Steam, scheduled for March 6, on X (Twitter):

https://x.com/StarfieldGame/status/1763599079810986202?s=20

 

Things covered by Bethesda in this latest Beta update are the following:

"We're adding expressions to photo mode! Now you can make your character and your companions match the mood of your shot - and Vasco is getting some new poses, too.

We're improving the scanner so you can continue to use it to monitor the world around you while harvesting resources or opening doors.

Ready for your next mission? Setting course on an inactive mission will now make it active!

We also tracked down the elusive David Barron, who had mysteriously been unavailable at the SSNN for many players in "Sabotage."

Other fixes include an issue causing the player's head to turn left while sprinting and some issues preventing Starborn Temples from appearing correctly, among many others."

[aurreth]

Quote

Procedurally generated planets and saves

Once a location has been procedurally generated, that overall general information is stored in the save.  While specific details of Points of Interest may possibly be recreated and changed upon a later visit, the location of those previously placed, as well as the overall major terrain features (including discovered traits), will remain the same.

Thus, any mod that is used that changes features of that terrain (other than pure retextures/meshes) or adds hand placed Points of Interest, will have those changes baked into the save.  Removal of that mod will result in those features no longer being available to load when that location is next visited - thus resulting in errors - up to and including CTDs.  Because of this, should such a mod be removed, it would be necessary to roll back to a save prior to the installation of that mod, or start a new game.

This... is not correct.  With one specific exception planets may be altered, biomes changed, even entire star systems moved without baking anything in to the save.

Procedurally generated planet data is only retained in the save for those locations with a current Landing Area or Outpost marker.  If those markers are removed (old landing markers replaced with new ones, or outposts removed) then the tile is regenerated the next time you land on it, complete with new POIs.  Note POIs are not the same as Worldspaces such as cities or the Buried Temple on Masada III.  Those are "static", but the random caves or minor civilian outposts are only retained for tiles "saved" by having a landing area on them.

If a mod changes a planet biome, or alters planet data to change it to a breathable atmosphere, those changes revert to vanilla when the mod is removed.  They aren't baked in to the save in anyway.  In fact, if you were using a mod that removes things like rocks, then built an outpost, the vanilla rocks may reappear inside your outpost buildings if you remove the mod.

Star systems can be moved all over the map, and they'll go back to their original location of you remove the mod.

Now, the specific exception:  planet terrain, the actual physical surface of the planet, is not controlled by planet or biome records in an ESM.  Each planet has it's own biom file found in an BS2 archive.  The surface of Earth is in earth.biom, the surface of Mars in mars.biom, etc.  These are currently uneditable, but can be swapped.  Swapping them around changes the physical surface of the planet, which means if you remove the mod that did the swapping you may find your characters loading in to a location that no longer exists.  You could end up under the ground and falling forever, which could lead to an unrecoverable save (I've had that happen twice lol).

Note that not even in this case are any planet changes actually baked into the save itself.  The planet reverts to vanilla, but that stock behavior just happens to put the ground above your head.

Overall, removing mods that change planets is relatively safe.  Just be someplace relatively static when you do, such as New Atlantis.

 

[smr1957]

Thanks, Aurreth.  I added a link to your post and stated that the information for that shown may not be correct and people should see your post for a full discussion of it.

[aurreth]

58 minutes ago, smr1957 said:

Thanks, Aurreth.  I added a link to your post and stated that the information for that shown may not be correct and people should see your post for a full discussion of it.

You're welcome.  I've done a huge amount of work with the goal of creating entirely new star systems and figuring out how they work, which means lots of loading and unloading custom planets and star systems.  There ARE glitches that occur, but those are based on the game not actually updating the star map, and not on planets themselves being modified (or unmodified).

The galaxy map is generated at the start of a new game or NG+.  At that time the game reads all the star and planet records and populates the map.  You can't add new systems or planets after that, not even space stations (which are treated as moons by the game).  They just won't show up, but instead will glitch the galaxy map location for Sol.  I can navigate around the glitch and still reach Sol, but then I've had a lot of practice

I'm stalled out right now until I can find a way to force a navigational update.  That and the ability to create new biom files (files, not records) are the only thing preventing us from fully custom star systems.

[smr1957]

Good info, Aurreth!  You've been doing a lot of work as I have seen and read in your posts, and it is really appreciated!  And I deeply appreciate you posting here with your comments and insights.  Keep up the good work!  I look forward to hearing from you , as well as seeing what you produce for Starfield in the way of mods!

[smr1957]

How to set your game for Beta Participation

Good day, all!  As has been previously posted, the latest Beta update is scheduled for March 6, so for those using it or wishing to, remember to set the game to Beta in Steam, so that the update will download.  See below for how to opt-in. (And, of course, this is only for the Steam version of the game, not console or Game Pass, and is only available through Steam.)

NOTE - Until Steam gets the official information from Bethesda, you may not see an option shown for Beta participation.
1. Go to your library and right click on Starfield
2.From the drop down menu, click on properties.
3. In the popup box that appears, on the left hand side, select Betas
4. On the Betas screen, where it says Beta Participation, in the small option box on the right, select Beta
5. Close the popup,  and you are all set.