Mod Browsing Overhaul Discussion

[CaptainSandyPants]

7 minutes ago, HollownessDevoured said:

Just as you/staff/devs are probably restrained or confined to certain parameters to accommodate accessibility or whatnot; I was trying to be respectful to that and compromise with that in mind—although begrudgingly. A lot of us cannot help there is a sense of less accessibility and being less user friendly with both colour theme and UI compared to the previous theme. Just don't exactly fault us for trying or repeating to be vocal about our actual wishes vs. what we are willing to compromise on. Passion should not be mistaken for insolence but when people feel you stop or aren't listening then it does and can go nasty (and I do not envy you guys having to deal with that).

I understand, if I remember correctly there was a user with visual impairments involved in the discussion who found the higher contrast helpful, which makes balancing different accessibility needs tricky. That's why were still open to feedback, we want to make it right for as many people as we can. We can reduce the contrast significantly in the areas we've managed to nail down as problematic while still maintaining the AA WCAG rating. It just may require a bit of back and forth.

[UX99]

6 minutes ago, CaptainSandyPants said:

I understand, if I remember correctly there was a user with visual impairments involved in the discussion who found the higher contrast helpful, which makes balancing different accessibility needs tricky. That's why were still open to feedback, we want to make it right for as many people as we can. We can reduce the contrast significantly in the areas we've managed to nail down as problematic while still maintaining the AA WCAG rating. It just may require a bit of back and forth.

What about using settings?

Don't have the color defined in the main CSS, but instead change text color to variables.

Then have the variables change based on the user option. This way, things are more contained on the staff-side and easier to alter en masse if needed.

Can then have varying degrees of contrast in user-settings.

And actually, this could be a way to allow "overrides" by allowing users to define their own colors, in addition to having presets.

Edited 12 hours ago by UX99

[PrimalBanana]

I fail to see the need for the changes personally and I feel like it's a paycheck justification update for the most part but I think my biggest issue so far with the site changes is navigating feels terrible and inconvenient. Appearance isn't bad but now definitely a sloppy form over function design where it matters. On a games main page I shouldn't have to scroll down a bit to find a link to see all available mods for a game. Trending mods shouldn't be first, an All Mods category should be first with the link to view all and the 2 tiles should change to 4 for thumbnails so 2 mods don't suddenly get tons of glory. Trending mods should be underneath All Mods with it's own link to view all trending and the 4 thumbnail tiles. Attached a hastily done MS paint of what my stoned ass is talking about. Scrolling down to see popular collections and such is fine if ya ask me and the filter panel on the left of mod lists is a very welcome addition, reminds me of using dutchie/pot shop sites lol

Also for the record I'll likely forget I posted this and never revisit, best of luck to all who bothered to read this jargon.

Edited 12 hours ago by PrimalBanana

[zloybelka]

8 hours ago, JustThatKing said:

Can you please let me know if this helps? If it doesn't, please let me know which parts of the page are you finding problematic. 

I'm still finding problematic a very grey monochrome font in the description and other important data.

Edited 11 hours ago by zloybelka

[ortext]

6 minutes ago, HeyYou said:

If you were 'listening to the feedback', you would by now realize that the new UI is pretty much universally despised by the USERS of the site.  Staff talks a good game about 'how they are listening to us', but, terribly sorry, if you were actually listening, this conversation wouldn't have gone on for more than 30 pages.....

I get that you only work there, and don't get to make the big decisions. I get that you are restrained by what 'the boss wants'..... I suppose, if Robin wants to screw up his site, that's his prerogative, but, please do NOT try and tell us the 'response is overwhelmingly positive'..... The evidence here on the forums tells an entirely different story.

You could solve ALL of this hate and discontent by simply offering the OPTION of using the old UI, or the New one. Then this thread could go back to being just for 'tweaks' on the new UI....

Mhmm..  Said it well... There is difference between listening with minor placation from actually adressing the situation by giving options.

 

And it seems like Robin does not want to do that, and to give majority of the community problems instead.

[CaptainSandyPants]

9 minutes ago, UX99 said:

What about using settings?

Don't have the color defined in the main CSS, but instead change text color to variables.

Then have the variables change based on the user option. This way, things are more contained on the staff-side and easier to alter en masse if needed.

Can then have varying degrees of contrast in user-settings.

We do use variables which makes it easier for us to address the root problem so the site is inherently accessible for all from the start. If there are any areas you are currently having issues with in terms of contrast, let me know and we'll see what we can do.

[HadToRegister]

1 hour ago, CaptainSandyPants said:

 I'm personally looking at reducing the high contrast at the moment, while maintaining our AA rating for those with visual impairments. 

Then why was it made WORSE with this 'update'?

I have vision problems, that have been getting worse over the years, (I'm old now), and this entire update has made the entire site WORSE for me.
I don't believe I ever complained about the previous site being “hard to see” or the “colors making my eyes hurt” etc.
However, with this update, (that is doing a very poor job of maintaining your AA rating for those with visual impairments.), has been really difficult for me.
Just like those ridiculously BRIGHT White on Yellow Buttons in the Forums that were THANKFULLY changed today. (Appreciate that!) 

It'd be nice if for once Nexus didn't automatically go into DEFENSIVE MODE every time, and take everything as HOSTILE, and automatically dismiss people's opinions, and belittle them by referring to us as Whiners and people who will “Complain about everything because they don't like change” like what happened very early in this thread, and what ALWAYS happens in Feedback threads.
I understand that initial responses can be harsh, but the better approach for Nexus would be to say “Well....WHY are these people angry, or complaining about X or Y”.
The main problem is we never feel like we're being heard.
Such as that list of feedback where every request was DENIED and the reason it was DENIED, not all that Nice.
What made the PR even WORSE, was when the that list was suddenly REMOVED from whatever site it was on.
Not a good look.

I'm glad things seem to be calming down, but it's that initial flare up from everybody that needs to be handled a LOT better.

Also, these threads would be a lot shorter and have a lot fewer posts if the usual White Knight didn't continue their typical behavior of arguing with everybody, criticizing them, telling them they're WRONG, and berating people who are just trying to give their legit feedback, like that person does in every single thread that is in any way critical of the Site.
It's exhausting and unnecessary and wastes time and space. 
I hope someday, that person will grow up and realize, as an adult, that you can be critical of something, or critique its flaws, while STILL LIKING THE THING.
Just because you LIKE something, doesn't mean you have to totally devote yourself to it and make yourself blind to any flaws that it may have, or might pop up, and spend all of your time defending it to the death from any and all criticism.

Leave that behavior to Gollum. 
 

[HollownessDevoured]

33 minutes ago, CaptainSandyPants said:

I understand, if I remember correctly there was a user with visual impairments involved in the discussion who found the higher contrast helpful, which makes balancing different accessibility needs tricky. That's why were still open to feedback, we want to make it right for as many people as we can. We can reduce the contrast significantly in the areas we've managed to nail down as problematic while still maintaining the AA WCAG rating. It just may require a bit of back and forth.

Yes, this made that argument very difficult back then who should we prioritize the legally blind (which seemed to be at that time 1 user to be the sample) or those who get eye pain/strain (which seemed to be a larger pool in that sample feedback and current sample feedback). As I mentioned back then and now, those who have vision issues can always zoom in but we cannot zoom out to get the fifth tile back. I believe it was mentioned back then that those with extreme/severe vision issues usually already use third party apps or browser extensions (and zoom) to accommodate the specific needs, as these apps/browser extensions, which depending on their condition, could vary extremely from one case to another.

And are we (or more you/nexus staff) saying that accessibility group which there is already apps/extensions in place for are more important that those getting eye strain pain now, and now we should have to get apps/extensions to reduce the high contrast so the other group doesn't have to anymore? Is this a who is more important: those with minor eye issues who may be a larger group less important that a group with severe eye issues who already have the support and extensions in place?

To be perfectly honest, I don't think my eye strain is more important than that other user's vision issues. But I can't help but think "you cannot trade better viewing" for one group (which she said she cannot even have compromise colours if you remember) for "another group's pain/discomfort". And I'd hate to be in a position to make a call which group gets what they want. 

Edited 11 hours ago by HollownessDevoured

[UX99]

3 minutes ago, CaptainSandyPants said:

We do use variables which makes it easier for us to address the root problem so the site is inherently accessible for all from the start. If there are any areas you are currently having issues with in terms of contrast, let me know and we'll see what we can do.

I was looking at the normal mod listing page and while I'm seeing some variable usage, it doesn't look to be for the colors themselves, just their opacity:

Here's just a snippet from what I'm seeing.

Quote

.text-neutral-subdued {
 --tw-text-opacity:1;
 color:rgb(161 161 170/var(--tw-text-opacity))
}
.text-neutral-weak {
 --tw-text-opacity:1;
 color:rgb(113 113 122/var(--tw-text-opacity))
}
.text-premium-300 {
 --tw-text-opacity:1;
 color:rgb(196 181 253/var(--tw-text-opacity))
}
.text-premium-strong {
 --tw-text-opacity:1;
 color:rgb(167 139 250/var(--tw-text-opacity))
}

Also not sure why tw-text-opacity keeps being defined for each class.

Is the CSS being edited through some other means? Whatever it is is adding a lot of bloat.

[HadToRegister]

9 minutes ago, CaptainSandyPants said:

We do use variables which makes it easier for us to address the root problem so the site is inherently accessible for all from the start. If there are any areas you are currently having issues with in terms of contrast, let me know and we'll see what we can do.

I already left that feedback.
I was trying to fill out the Description box for my mod and had to use a Magnifying glass to read the text I was typing in, because it was a THIN, light gray font, on a white background.