Russia and the Ukraine

[HeyYou]

That is what elections are all about. Voting for someone to make decisions for you.

 

A referendum is expressing your own opinion DIRECTLY. Should you choose NOT to express it, why should anyone worry about your opinion?

[Thor.]

Found some disturbing news :blink:

 

http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/SB10001424052702303779504579465830294243784-lMyQjAxMTA0MDIwNzEyNDcyWj

[Harbringe]

Found some disturbing news :blink:

 

http://online.wsj.com/news/article_email/SB10001424052702303779504579465830294243784-lMyQjAxMTA0MDIwNzEyNDcyWj

 

I would take that with a grain of salt , the truth is those troops are and have always been there . Whats really going on is what they call flexing the muscle , in other words take troops from point A and move em down the road to point B and make a big show of it . The EU and US are doing the exact same thing but are coming to realize that because they have troops stationed all over the world , that in this regional area of Ukraine their at the disadvantage because Russia unlike them doesn't have troops stationed all over the world . Must be a slow news day.

[Ghogiel]

That is what elections are all about. Voting for someone to make decisions for you.

 

A referendum is expressing your own opinion DIRECTLY. Should you choose NOT to express it, why should anyone worry about your opinion?

Why should anyone worry about your opinion when you have given it over to a 3rd party?

Edited March 28, 2014 by Ghogiel

[Lisnpuppy]

Don't derail this. It isn't about voting or representative government.~Lisnpuppy

[Harbringe]

Have been waiting for this program since the start of the crisis , its pretty heady stuff but really gives you deep insight as to why we are where we are in regard to the Ukraine.

 

The only obvious things I think they have overlooked is the strategic value Crimea gives to the Russians in that area and the Eastern Mediterranean in general and the blow back that could possibly be coming to the rest of Europe in having thought it was a good idea to utilize ultra nationalist as an asset . Anyway for those who watch hope you enjoy it.

 

 

 

 

@ Heyyou : Something of a clarification . When we talked earlier in the thread about Al Jazeera have to point out that I don't automatically trust them , what I do is find those who's journalistic integrity is something I can trust and if that is in the BBC or CBC or Al Jazeera or where ever, its that type of integrity I look for. Cause really when it comes to people telling the truth its about character.

[Harbringe]

Well with whats happening it may be unavoidable that a civil or regional war is in the making . The Kiev Government has launched operations in the east of the country to put down the protestor err sorry when they were in Kiev doing the same thing , they were protestor , now they are named terrorists . (funny how that works) . Anyway it may not be going as planned as there have been reports here and there of Ukrainian Army units switching allegiance . Also you got actual Russian fighters buzzing NATO ships in the Black Sea , lets hope this meeting in Geneva can calm things down .

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/04/pro-russia-vehicles-roll-through-east-ukraine-201441654155892670.html

[JimboUK]

The Guardian are reporting that one unit sent in to take a town back has switched sides, it's not going well for the "government" in Kiev.

 

"One soldier siding with the separatists in Slavyansk told a Reuters reporter he and others in his group were part of a Ukrainian paratroop unit who could not shoot "our own people".

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/16/pro-russian-separatists-seize-ukrainian-armoured-vehicles

 

The EU and US have made a right mess of this.

[Harbringe]

These are the kind of things that tell you things are headed in a very serious direction.

 

Kremlin breaks direct contact to the White House . All government contact will be through the foreign ministry until this situation see's some resolution.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/25/exclusive-putin-halts-all-talks-with-white-house.html

 

And the Russian Central Bank is advising all Russian business interests to end their relationship with US/EU nations involved in sanctions against Russia . This is always how it begins , the money starts moving , people trying to save their assets. Later comes trying to save their asses.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-25/furious-russia-downgraded-just-above-junk-sp-proposes-scorched-earth-retaliation-aga

 

 

Oh and this is worrisome , Obama on his longest Asian tour to date leaves out China , given the enviroment in S East Asia and the situation in Ukraine (China , Russia strong allies) , its not comforting he would leave them out.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Harbringe

[JimboUK]

These are the kind of things that tell you things are headed in a very serious direction.

 

Kremlin breaks direct contact to the White House . All government contact will be through the foreign ministry until this situation see's some resolution.

 

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/25/exclusive-putin-halts-all-talks-with-white-house.html

 

And the Russian Central Bank is advising all Russian business interests to end their relationship with US/EU nations involved in sanctions against Russia . This is always how it begins , the money starts moving , people trying to save their assets. Later comes trying to save their asses.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-04-25/furious-russia-downgraded-just-above-junk-sp-proposes-scorched-earth-retaliation-aga

 

 

Oh and this is worrisome , Obama on his longest Asian tour to date leaves out China , given the enviroment in S East Asia and the situation in Ukraine (China , Russia strong allies) , its not comforting he would leave them out.

 

The problem for Putin is Russian business will send it's cash overseas where it'll be safe, Russia has just raised interest rates to try and stop capital flight. Putin is in danger of overplaying his hand, Russia cannot win a trade war with the west even with the west being in the weakened state it is. Does he expect Russian business to boycott New York, London and Frankfurt? since the start of the troubles in the Ukraine Russian business has been as good as locked out of these markets anyway and they're starting to suffer, Moscow can't replace the loss of investment for ever, especially when it only takes one more step down in their credit rating and the Russian state will be locked out too.