Holds

[Galandil]

Religious freedom has nothing to do with conversion cults like the Imperial Cult, we have religious freedom today in the West, and yet we see every religion trying to brush off the other, like Islam with Jesus being Muslim, or Hindu's with the Kaaba being a Hindu shrine (I think that's what it was, not really important but ye). Essentially they see the way that the Nords worship the gods as wrong. You can actually meet a guy in Oblivion in the Chapel of Bruma who remarks on this as well, and a Nord woman who remarks on how the Imperial custom of marriage is foreign to the way of the Nordic ancestors and that she prefers the concept of "Live-In Parner", which makes it a little sensible that the marriage customs in Skyrim is introduced so strangely.

 

How Christianity began its conversion of Scandinavia is not exactly unique, but its the best example I could think of. The religion first integrated itself with Jesus Christ being another god you could worship, the god who conquered death and therefor by association a war god. And how christian missionaries would destroy shrines to the Norse Gods, and build chapels at burial places to oversee burial rights. This is a pretty standard step-by-step strategy that every religion has conducted when converting the populace to the new religion. In terms of the Nordic Pantheon and the Imperial Pantheon, its in many ways already integrated as that is how the alessian pantheon was formed, by incorporating the Nordic Gods with the Elven gods. On the other hand there is also a clash of culture, as the Nords have their way of doing things, and the Imperial's have another, and now with the Imperial Cult seeking to exchange the Nordic pantheon with the Imperial, it is also an attempt to change the Nordic way of life.

 

There is a Shieldmaiden faction in Blackmoor, which also has influenced this form of association for woman in Whiterun Hold. I have not touched much on this yet in terms of books, but I will. There would likely be shieldmaiden factions elsewhere as well. Kynesgrove is back to being just an inn as I didn't like the way I had done it. But in books it tells of how it used to be a place of reverence and pilgrimage for the followers of Kyne, eluding to links to the Eldergleam Tree. There should be a kind of shrine there and I am brainstorming how to go about it.

 

I am not too fond of spreading shrines everywhere and thereby ruin the wilderness feeling of Skyrim. It was the reason I had to remove two settlements from Falkreath Hold as the world felt horribly huddled together. I am however looking to in the future expand a bit and look to creating new area's, for certain quests where there may be such shrines.

 

Akatosh's chapel is in Solitude, which is pretty assimilated to the Imperial pantheon and customs. The chapel also represents the main staging point for the Imperial Cult. I think Nords would feel resenment towards Akatosh as he led the uprising against Shor, so a kind of traitor god, but I don't think they would mix him up with Alduin, could be mistaken.

[Galandil]

 

 

Essentially following the conversion of Scandinavia, missionaries would build chapels near burial sites and would first integrate their gods into the foreign religion and culture, before slowly and surely pushing the old ways aside. The books tell of people who've preformed great feats in sign of the southern ways superiority, or great outbreaks of battles which have been fought due to frustration by the Nords. If you travel to the settlements in Skyrim you will find that they still cling to their old ways and have been majorly un-affected by the Imperial Cult.

 

I have to say, I'm looking forward greatly to this project. I plan to restart Skyrim soon and everything you've said and shared makes me more intrigued. Thank you for all of your hard work. To this concept in particular, I really appreciate the idea of bringing historical precedent into this world. The Gods aspect sounds really compelling.

 

Thank you! I hope it wont disappoint :)

[WBizzyW]

Religious freedom has nothing to do with conversion cults like the Imperial Cult, we have religious freedom today in the West, and yet we see every religion trying to brush off the other, like Islam with Jesus being Muslim, or Hindu's with the Kaaba being a Hindu shrine (I think that's what it was, not really important but ye). Essentially they see the way that the Nords worship the gods as wrong. You can actually meet a guy in Oblivion in the Chapel of Bruma who remarks on this as well, and a Nord woman who remarks on how the Imperial custom of marriage is foreign to the way of the Nordic ancestors and that she prefers the concept of "Live-In Parner", which makes it a little sensible that the marriage customs in Skyrim is introduced so strangely.

 

How Christianity began its conversion of Scandinavia is not exactly unique, but its the best example I could think of. The religion first integrated itself with Jesus Christ being another god you could worship, the god who conquered death and therefor by association a war god. And how christian missionaries would destroy shrines to the Norse Gods, and build chapels at burial places to oversee burial rights. This is a pretty standard step-by-step strategy that every religion has conducted when converting the populace to the new religion. In terms of the Nordic Pantheon and the Imperial Pantheon, its in many ways already integrated as that is how the alessian pantheon was formed, by incorporating the Nordic Gods with the Elven gods. On the other hand there is also a clash of culture, as the Nords have their way of doing things, and the Imperial's have another, and now with the Imperial Cult seeking to exchange the Nordic pantheon with the Imperial, it is also an attempt to change the Nordic way of life.

 

There is a Shieldmaiden faction in Blackmoor, which also has influenced this form of association for woman in Whiterun Hold. I have not touched much on this yet in terms of books, but I will. There would likely be shieldmaiden factions elsewhere as well. Kynesgrove is back to being just an inn as I didn't like the way I had done it. But in books it tells of how it used to be a place of reverence and pilgrimage for the followers of Kyne, eluding to links to the Eldergleam Tree. There should be a kind of shrine there and I am brainstorming how to go about it.

 

I am not too fond of spreading shrines everywhere and thereby ruin the wilderness feeling of Skyrim. It was the reason I had to remove two settlements from Falkreath Hold as the world felt horribly huddled together. I am however looking to in the future expand a bit and look to creating new area's, for certain quests where there may be such shrines.

 

Akatosh's chapel is in Solitude, which is pretty assimilated to the Imperial pantheon and customs. The chapel also represents the main staging point for the Imperial Cult. I think Nords would feel resenment towards Akatosh as he led the uprising against Shor, so a kind of traitor god, but I don't think they would mix him up with Alduin, could be mistaken.

 

For the wilderness shrines I mean, Totems, single sights, wood carvings, the forgotten kind of thing.

 

 

And for the imperial gods:

 

"The Eight" Divines are viewed by the Nords as a “Southern” import. They retain some of the taint of the Alessian Order, and are basically viewed as a religion for foreigners. Their gods are fine for them, but Nords need Nord gods.

Some of the gods are the same (or similar) – significantly these are the three female gods, which are far more important to the Nords than they are in the Imperial Cult. (Kyne is in fact the de facto head of the Nord pantheon.) The Nords are perplexed and disturbed by the Imperial Cult’s focus on the Dragon God – they regard this as a fundamental misunderstanding of the universe, and one likely to cause disaster in the end. (Which fits perfectly with the pessimistic Nord view of the world in general – things are likely to turn out badly, and it will probably be caused by some foreigner.) Lucky for the world that the Nords are so diligent about keeping Alduin asleep, while the southerners are busy trying to get his attention! Any mention of Akatosh in a Nord’s presence is likely to bring a muttered invocation to Alduin to stay asleep in response.

The Nords believe that, During the Oblivion Crisis, it was Talos (Dragonborn, Martin’s forefather) lending his aid, not Alduin."

 

Again, that's from the guy that basicly invented the TES cosmos.

[Galandil]

Oh, right, yes we could look into that. Otherwise I sort of figured that shrines would be discover-able in otherwise forgotten and hidden locations.

 

Indeed I did write a book about that the Nords view the Divines as southern gods, or southern interpretations. Did not know about the Nords believing Talos being the god who aided Martin Septim, interesting.

 

I will read through the links you posted. Holds is very much an open canvas at this point, while a lot of the cultural aspects and history has been written down into books and such and are thereby set in stone, it is very open to change in the more universal parts, such as religion. I still think it is important to make mentions of the Imperial Cult operating in Skyrim as this is heavily hinted to in Oblivion, as well as what we see in Skyrim, however the extent that Skyrim went for is a bit too much in my opinion and I will incorporate the Nordic Pantheon as the defacto-main religion in Skyrim, even those who are leaning towards the Imperial Pantheon will still cling to certain understandings of the Gods which lie with the Nordic Pantheon.

[MissShaoHuan]

I'm looking forward to this :D

[Galandil]

I'm looking forward to this :D

Not long now! :smile:

 

Just finished making the exterior parts of Interesting NPC's compatible. Next the interiors. Once that's done I'll look into ELFX and Lanterns of Skyrim before wrapping up with Undeath and Moonpath (both of which has minor incompatibilities. Moonpath has some really horrible edits to the Dead Man's Drink and Undeath has a sewer entrance, simply needs to move that entrance to inside my sewer)

 

@Edit; Right then. We have compatibility with Interesting NPC's. Full compatibility. No shoving things awkwardly out of place to cheat, good and proper as it should be :smile: A little proud of myself. So if you were worried that you wouldn't be able to use both mods I hope now those worries are laid to rest. Do note you have to use version 3.18 with the Hearthfire edition (also required to use Holds, along with Dawnguard and Dragonborn)

 

Since I'm a little behind on schedule I will now look into Undeath, as I know so-so where it is incompatible and how to fix it. After that Moonpath will simply require that I remove some of the static object edits in the Dead Man's Drink, and then finally I can look at ELFX and Lanterns. ... I don't think SMIM needs a compatibility patch, I have changed some textures on some objects, but since I use SMIM, and ... anyone who has a good enough computer to handle Holds, is probably using SMIM as well... I don't really see the point. In hindsight I kind of want to go back and make all those meshes I changed texture on into stand-alone meshes to ensure we don't get any texture hickups, as long as people use SMIM I don't think we have to worry. Lastly there is modular patches. Since today is Thursday, I have a 4 hour lesson I need to attend in the afternoon, I doubt I will find time to do it before release. Expect me put in those options sometime hopefully shortly after initial release as I very much intend for people to be able to pick and choose what cities they want to have affected by Holds.

 

@Edit02; Undeath requires no compatibility patch after all. I have looked a bit at Moonpath and it appears as though the newer version of Moonpath is integrated into Legacy of the Dragonborn. If I've understood this correctly I can create compatibility with it, as well as Moonpath to Elsweyr in one patch. Considering though how Interesting NPC's was a pain to create a patch for, I wonder if this mod will also cause an memory clash. A part of me suspects as much.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Galandil

[MissShaoHuan]

A memory clash? Oh you mean the bug you came across earlier with having too much loaded into the CK?

 

So excited for tomorrow :D for me it's technically only an hour and a half away xD

[Galandil]

A memory clash? Oh you mean the bug you came across earlier with having too much loaded into the CK?

 

So excited for tomorrow :D for me it's technically only an hour and a half away xD

Mhm. The Creation Kit has a memory cap, and when you load up content that oversteps that content it starts to do something similar to a bufferoverflow. Very annoying. Thankfully there was a work around so Interesting NPC's is now compatible.

 

So here are the mods that are compatible so far:

 

Frostfall, Helgen Reborn, Interesting NPCs, Notice Boards, No Snow Under The Roof, Skyrim Flora Overhaul, Ultimate Follower Overhaul, Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch. And Currently working on a patch for Arissa, the wandering rogue. Undeath, Convenient Horses did not need a patch apparently.

 

I've spoken with the mod author of the Legacy of the Dragonborn and once the mod is released he'll be looking into creating compatibility with it. His mod has also incorporated the Moonpath to Elsweyr along with other mods so expect that to be compatible sometime after release.

 

Very excited about the release! Later today I will post two showcasing video's by two very prominent mod reviewers who've been so nice as to create video's for the project from the alpha versions of the mod :smile:

Edited March 31, 2016 by Galandil

[MissShaoHuan]

OoOO I'm so glad you spoke to icecreamassassin about Legacy as I love that mod.

 

Also could you look into making a patch for Anna NPCs 2.0?

[Galandil]

Anna NPCs? Uh, Sure! I'll get on it right away. Climates of Tamriel is compatible by default. Going to see to Vilja, Inigo and then Anna then :smile:

 

Anna NPCs has a 3.0 version. Which appears to be the newest. Isn't that the one you meant?

 

@Edit; Vilja appears to be compatible. Next Inigo, then I'll check your Anna's :smile:

 

@Edit; Inigo is compatible by default. Okay. Anna NPCs next.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Galandil