Why not change the economy?

[Maharg67]

It seems to me that too many people take it for granted that the economy, as it is, is somehow permanent and unchangeable. Yet there have been many forms of economy through out history including more than one kind of capitalism.

 

I am not advocating any particular kind of economy but just the idea of all people having more influence over the economy. It seems the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

 

If the economy ceases to serve the good of most people than why not change the economy for the sake of most of the people?

[kvnchrist]

When exactly did any economy or even a society ever benefited most of the people to their level of what should be beneficial?

 

What exactly should we change it to that would satisfy such a large mass of people? It seems everyone one and their uncle wants change of some sort, but something that either doesn't touch their piece of the pie or doesn't cause them an inordinate level of headaches.

[HeyYou]

How about going back to being the manufacturing powerhouse we once were? Instead of 90% of our jobs being in the service industry.......

[JimboUK]

What's needed is democracy, a political class that represents the people rather than those that line the politicians pockets, only then will anything change. As for capitalism, it's the worst economic model except for the rest of them.

[Vagrant0]

We are already changing the economy as we speak. We are moving from a commodity based economy towards a credit based economy.

 

The problems we've been having lately are largely due to the fact that most still have the commodity mindset, have little understanding about how credit works, meanwhile companies continue issuing credit to people who have no mean to support it. The same problem we had with the housing market will likely happen to the retail market... Which is particularly concerning since it is the retail market which is essentially all that is keeping 1st world economy afloat, and subsequently what is allowing developing nations to develop. When the bubble bursts, we're all going to have a real problem on our hands, doesn't matter what country you live in or what political party you're rooting for.

 

As for how to avoid this... Well, it's there you run into a simple matter of scarcity and greed and that isn't likely to change any time soon.

[Harbringe]

We are already changing the economy as we speak. We are moving from a commodity based economy towards a credit based economy.

 

Though credit and debt are interchangeable as terms in economic theory there are subtle differences . The biggest being that debt based economies carry with them interest (usury) bearing models in their construction and not all credit based economies do (one off fee based models). What we are in now is clearly a debt based economy. The odd thing about this economy is those with money (rich) are buying up all the commodities at a rapacious rate, while the poor and over the last 40 years even the middle class are being saddled with ever increasing debt. It has little to do with scarcity and a lot more to do with the inherent greed built within the economic model.

 

To give people an idea of the magnitude of the debt situation . If you were to take all forms (financial instruments) of debt that exist in the world (personal , sovereign , securities , etc ,etc) and try to pay them off, it would require that every human being monetize everything that sustains them in life (food , water , clothing , energy , shelter , everything) for a period of 15 - 20 years and give it to those that hold the debt. Now we know this is not possible , so the only other option is perpetual debt slavery if you intend to keep the economic system going , if not the only other options through out history have been default , debt forgiveness (jubilee) or war .

 

The basis of our economy comes down to the way (interest bearing) we create money (credit/debt) and if you don't change that , it will change us .

 

The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered. Thomas Jefferson

 

Its really simple to even have a chance at creating a more just economic model you have to change the economic model by which money is created , it all starts there. The Federal Reserve and usury in the creation of money would have to be abolished , but before that could even be attempted you have to get money out of politics and as it is now that's impossible because those who would maintain and profit by the system as it is , own your politicians and the political process. BTW for those of us not Americans the situation to varying degrees is also true.

 

For Americans they have only one chance left to save their democracy and even begin to build a just economic model and its called an Article V Constitutional Convention . Its something the Founding Fathers put in (damn smart of them) the Constitution to address a situation where in the Federal Government had become so corrupt and compromised that the States could come together and pass Constitutional Amendments to set it right . It requires 2/3 of State Legislatures to call for it and whatever amendment/s to also pass by a similar ratio . (not exactly sure what that ratio is). If passed they become binding law that not even the Supreme Court can overturn.

 

There is a movement to get this done.

 

http://www.wolf-pac.com/

 

 

 

 

[Maharg67]

 

We are already changing the economy as we speak. We are moving from a commodity based economy towards a credit based economy.

 

Though credit and debt are interchangeable as terms in economic theory there are subtle differences . The biggest being that debt based economies carry with them interest (usury) bearing models in their construction and not all credit based economies do (one off fee based models). What we are in now is clearly a debt based economy. The odd thing about this economy is those with money (rich) are buying up all the commodities at a rapacious rate, while the poor and over the last 40 years even the middle class are being saddled with ever increasing debt. It has little to do with scarcity and a lot more to do with the inherent greed built within the economic model.

 

To give people an idea of the magnitude of the debt situation . If you were to take all forms (financial instruments) of debt that exist in the world (personal , sovereign , securities , etc ,etc) and try to pay them off, it would require that every human being monetize everything that sustains them in life (food , water , clothing , energy , shelter , everything) for a period of 15 - 20 years and give it to those that hold the debt. Now we know this is not possible , so the only other option is perpetual debt slavery if you intend to keep the economic system going , if not the only other options through out history have been default , debt forgiveness (jubilee) or war .

 

The basis of our economy comes down to the way (interest bearing) we create money (credit/debt) and if you don't change that , it will change us .

 

The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered. Thomas Jefferson

 

Its really simple to even have a chance at creating a more just economic model you have to change the economic model by which money is created , it all starts there. The Federal Reserve and usury in the creation of money would have to be abolished , but before that could even be attempted you have to get money out of politics and as it is now that's impossible because those who would maintain and profit by the system as it is , own your politicians and the political process. BTW for those of us not Americans the situation to varying degrees is also true.

 

For Americans they have only one chance left to save their democracy and even begin to build a just economic model and its called an Article V Constitutional Convention . Its something the Founding Fathers put in (damn smart of them) the Constitution to address a situation where in the Federal Government had become so corrupt and compromised that the States could come together and pass Constitutional Amendments to set it right . It requires 2/3 of State Legislatures to call for it and whatever amendment/s to also pass by a similar ratio . (not exactly sure what that ratio is). If passed they become binding law that not even the Supreme Court can overturn.

 

There is a movement to get this done.

 

http://www.wolf-pac.com/

 

 

 

 

I found your post to be both informative and interesting. I generally agree with your ideas and hope that the US Federal Government can be forced to change its way. Yet there is a cynical part of me that fears that war will come.

 

A question is just who would rise to attack the corrupt power factions of the world? In the end would the military, and other forces, defend or attack the current balance of power? I think that the intelligent, skilled and cheated middle class may well be driven to rebel and will take the so called lower classes with them. In the past disaffected members of the upper classes have turned upon them; many famous revolutionaries came from such origins so it could happen again. If a war did start it would probably be a very messy, destructive event that would change the world no matter which side won or if the war ended in a stalemate.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Maharg67

[Vagrant0]

 

A question is just who would rise to attack the corrupt power factions of the world? In the end would the military, and other forces, defend or attack the current balance of power? I think that the intelligent, skilled and cheated middle class may well be driven to rebel and will take the so called lower classes with them. In the past disaffected members of the upper classes have turned upon them; many famous revolutionaries came from such origins so it could happen again. If a war did start it would probably be a very messy, destructive event that would change the world no matter which side won or if the war ended in a stalemate.

 

The problem is that it is essentially a global issue now. It isn't just that you have a corrupt government, but you also have a government which has borrowed large amounts of money from other governments. Meanwhile you have private institutions who are in a similar situation. A revolt of some kind would only bring a problem quicker since those who lent money would be more hasty in getting it back before all hell broke out, or would be trying to take what they feel they are owed in the instability. In essence, the same situation that allowed WW I to start, but on a more global scale.

[JimboUK]

 

 

A question is just who would rise to attack the corrupt power factions of the world? In the end would the military, and other forces, defend or attack the current balance of power? I think that the intelligent, skilled and cheated middle class may well be driven to rebel and will take the so called lower classes with them. In the past disaffected members of the upper classes have turned upon them; many famous revolutionaries came from such origins so it could happen again. If a war did start it would probably be a very messy, destructive event that would change the world no matter which side won or if the war ended in a stalemate.

 

 

You need look no further than Europe to see what is rising and it's not pretty. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/04/golden-dawn-rise-far-right-euro-201441483840429923.html

[Harbringe]

 

 

 

A question is just who would rise to attack the corrupt power factions of the world? In the end would the military, and other forces, defend or attack the current balance of power? I think that the intelligent, skilled and cheated middle class may well be driven to rebel and will take the so called lower classes with them. In the past disaffected members of the upper classes have turned upon them; many famous revolutionaries came from such origins so it could happen again. If a war did start it would probably be a very messy, destructive event that would change the world no matter which side won or if the war ended in a stalemate.

 

 

You need look no further than Europe to see what is rising and it's not pretty. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/04/golden-dawn-rise-far-right-euro-201441483840429923.html

 

 

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