I'm beginning to find it harder to hate the Thalmor...

[LeddBate]

Me: (Looting Thalmor patrol)

 

Prisoner: "If you know any true..."

 

Me: "Yeah, yeah, I know. Like I haven't heard this line a hundred times before."

 

Prisoner: "...sons and daughters of Skyrim..."

 

Me: "Will you just shut up already?"

 

Prisoner: "...tell them to head to Windhelm, Jarl..."

 

Me: "Shut up, shut up, Shut Up!"

 

Prisoner: "...Ulfric Stromcloak wants..."

 

Me: "Arrrgh!" (STAB, STAB, STAB, STAB, STAB)

 

Prisoner: "OW, OW, OW, OW, OWIE!" (Thud)

 

Odahving: "You know, you're never gonna achieve CHIM with an attitude like that."

Edited October 3, 2014 by LeddBate

[monganfinn]

So even though they fail to destroy Talos, they still manage to end Mundus, how?

 

Or does Talos function as a lock on creation only because he is worshipped?

[Lachdonin]

It's been awhile since i read Tal.OS, which somewhat explains Talos' role in stabilizing Mundus... But basically so long as he exists, the Impossipoint is untouchable.

 

As for the Thalmor victory... They don't really succeed in un-making Mundus, but they do succeed in ending the cycle. They irreparably damage the system, preventing the Kalpa from resetting and causing a permanent Dragon Break, shattering the laws of cause and effect and effectively ending the Mortal Cycle. It's kind of a catch 22... They escape mortality, but by essentially erasing themselves entirely.

[Urtel]

Is erasing even a thing though? From what we (I?) know souls varnish only if entering Void, which is not what happens, i guess. On the other hand, we can say that Dwemer actually erased themselves, and in this case it all makes perfect sence, meaning that thalmor finally "wins" the eternal war against followers of Lorkhan.

While writing this i realised, that orsimer seem to also be destroyed in proccess. Meaning that from all non-aedric cultures, dunmer are the only survivers. And beastfolk.

[notmyhome]

In Elder Scrolls, you can unmake yourself by Zero-Summing after realizing that reality is just a dream. The only way to keep yourself from vanishing like that is achieving CHIM. The exact process isn't entirely clear to me, but I think that's the basics.

[TheVampireDante]

So basically - it's loosely similar to the idea of lucid dreaming.

 

You know it's all one long dream, but that knowledge itself, coupled with a strong belief in yourself and your own existance empowers you go on and continue existing in a state previously unknown to you (CHIM) - instead of "blinking out" of the dream existance (which in RL is just people "waking up").

 

Bit of a hazy attempt to (hopefully) makes some sense of it.

[monganfinn]

I take it we don´t really know which method the Thalmor use to achieve that?

 

I believe to have read that the Redguards also escape destruction by living on the moon or Oblivion?

 

If the Thalmor succeed to unmake Nirn, rather than Mundus(which would include the aedric planes/planets?) without resetting the Kalpa than that would explain how this really is the last Kalpa as some argue. Unless that state is somehow reversed or a new version of a mortal plane pops up.

[Lachdonin]

Well, Love letter from the 5th Era claims Landfall can be prevented, which means we could prevent the whole thing.

[monganfinn]

Eh? I just looked it up on the wiki, but if you refer to the "only love can" then don´t they mean achievbing CHIM?

 

I had totally forgotten that Landfall happens in the 5th era, no wonder the Dragonborn wouldn´t be able to do something about it.

 

Though do we know what happens to the dovah apart from Alduin when he eats a kalpa?

[Lachdonin]

Eh? I just looked it up on the wiki, but if you refer to the "only love can" then don´t they mean achievbing CHIM?

 

 

We are not entirely sure... It could be CHIM, it could be Amaranth, or it could be something else entirely...

 

 

I had totally forgotten that Landfall happens in the 5th era, no wonder the Dragonborn wouldn´t be able to do something about it.

 

It's generally believed that Landfall CAUSES the 5th Era. It would be like the 'Ascention' of Martin Septim, a mythic event which is used to denote the end of the 4th, and beginning of the 5th.

 

 

 

Though do we know what happens to the dovah apart from Alduin when he eats a kalpa?

 

We know many types of Spirits persist from one Kalpa to the next. The Daedra are totally unaffected. Entities like The Greedy Man and the Leaper Demon King persisted through multiple Kalpas. The Hist seem to only be partially affected by the transition. Its likely that Dragons just follow along and are some of those semi-immortal spirits which just sort of phase from one Kalpa to the next, which could explain the source of some of the conflicting mythic cycles.