The_Reaper Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Do they exist?What do you think they are?Do you have an experience you want to tell us about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Switch Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 do they exist? highly doubtful. IMHO even if people HAVE really seen them, they're most likely caused by unknown phenomena, like sound vibrations making halucinations in the retina or something like that (i saw a program on it) :P personally tho ive never encountered anything strange like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Reaper Posted September 11, 2003 Author Share Posted September 11, 2003 How do you explain plates and other objects flying off shelves?Are they sound vibrations too? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Switch Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 How do you explain plates and other objects flying off shelves?Are they sound vibrations too? :P could be. truth is we dont know, theres some things about science we havent discovered yet. most likely the people who claim that theyve seen that sort of thing are either lying or delusional :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pob Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 As a scientist (even a no longer practicing one), no I don't belive. I have seen no eveidence to suggest they exist with my own eyes and anything I have seen can be explained by a rational explaination. I am probably what is referred to as a sceptic, not that I don't belive it isn't possible just that there is no eveidence to suggest it does exist. 100 years ago if you would have said there will be a man on the moon people would have thought you insane and locked you up, times change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idea assassin Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I don't think friends exist. Ghosts and poltergeists...maybe. Seriously though, I don't believe in ghosts. I believe we either go to Heaven or Hell when we die, we don't wander the Earth moaning and rattling chains. I've never seen a hint of anything like that and I've never read an account that couldn't be explained away one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darmoth Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 Well, from both a theological and scientific point of view, I'd have to say there is SOMETHING ELSE... there... Lets not forget that law of physics, that energy can not be destroyed. Well, look at what the human is when you take away most of the flesh organs blood, ect. We're a huge system of electrical impluses, and electricity is at least one form or energy... So since energy can not be destroyed, what happens to that energy when we die I ask you? This leads to slightly less stable ground, such as if this is the case, then is the Soul a being of energy? Thus after we die, the energy part of us that is our Soul moves on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 No to the first two, and a definite no to the third (friends? other people? what are those? *goes back to playing morrowind.*) My opinion is that all "evidence" of ghosts, etc goes in one of two categories:1) Not in any way true: Clearly invented by someone, just an attempt to get attention, entertain people, whatever. Stuff like photoshop added "ghosts" or making crop circles in your field to attract paying tourists. Not too much question about this one, just simple human activities and a bit of storytelling. 2) Incorrect interpertation of facts: People want to believe in ghosts and stuff like that, so they'll look for anything that could favor their story and assume that it does. Example would be the "ghosts" on pictures, if someone wants it to be true, they'll be more willing to call it supernatural events rather than a boring simple explanation like lens glare or whatever. Pretty much its all in the mind of the believer. And darmoth, death obeys all laws of physics without involving any form of soul. Conservation of energy involves the total energy of a closed system, not the energy of each component. The system in this case being the universe. When you die, the energy of your body is just converted to a different form. Example, the chemical energy of your cells is converted and used by bacteria in the soil. Or even better, compare the body 1 second before and after death. All the energy is still present, it is just not organized and working in the way that you consider "life". I'm not a biology expert, so I can't tell you exaclty where all the energy goes, but it definitely doesn't just disappear into a nicely organized soul. So in summary, from a scientific point of view, the existence of a soul is not required to make any physical laws work. If it does exist, it does so outside, and without interacting with, the world as we know it. As for a theological point of view, that depends on your own beliefs, which I'm not going to argue right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darmoth Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 No to the first two, and a definite no to the third (friends? other people? what are those? *goes back to playing morrowind.*) My opinion is that all "evidence" of ghosts, etc goes in one of two categories:1) Not in any way true: Clearly invented by someone, just an attempt to get attention, entertain people, whatever. Stuff like photoshop added "ghosts" or making crop circles in your field to attract paying tourists. Not too much question about this one, just simple human activities and a bit of storytelling. 2) Incorrect interpertation of facts: People want to believe in ghosts and stuff like that, so they'll look for anything that could favor their story and assume that it does. Example would be the "ghosts" on pictures, if someone wants it to be true, they'll be more willing to call it supernatural events rather than a boring simple explanation like lens glare or whatever. Pretty much its all in the mind of the believer. And darmoth, death obeys all laws of physics without involving any form of soul. Conservation of energy involves the total energy of a closed system, not the energy of each component. The system in this case being the universe. When you die, the energy of your body is just converted to a different form. Example, the chemical energy of your cells is converted and used by bacteria in the soil. Or even better, compare the body 1 second before and after death. All the energy is still present, it is just not organized and working in the way that you consider "life". I'm not a biology expert, so I can't tell you exaclty where all the energy goes, but it definitely doesn't just disappear into a nicely organized soul. So in summary, from a scientific point of view, the existence of a soul is not required to make any physical laws work. If it does exist, it does so outside, and without interacting with, the world as we know it. As for a theological point of view, that depends on your own beliefs, which I'm not going to argue right now. Well, true in most respects. I never said that there IS a soul. Just a theory on what it might be if there is one. As far as the laws of conservation goes, yes, most of our physical propeties breaks down to be absorbed as food for the plant life. However there are certain properties of human energy that we really aren't sure what happens to, or in what way it is released. Because the human body is more than just chemicals and tissue. Properties of the body include natural currents of electricity and even minute levels of radiation, thus it is debateable what actually happens to these forms of energy when a human dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThetaOrionis01 Posted September 13, 2003 Share Posted September 13, 2003 I think the energy is exchanged with the environment - the human body is not a closed system, as Peregrine said. The energy you produce is radiated as warmth, for instance. After you die, I would suggest that the energy stored within your body is used in chemical processes as the body decays and interacts with its environment. As for ghosts - I wouldn't necessarily say that all ghost sightings are made up or falsely reported, but that it is entirely possible for our own brains to trick us by falsely interpreting sensory input. So perhaps localised electromagnetical disturbances can produce a 'ghost sighting' within the brain. And electromagneticl disturbances can definitely interfere with recording equipment etc... If epileptic fits can cause religious visions, then who's to say what can cause ghost sightings? We just don't know enough about brain chemistry yet. I also believe that our brains are capable of a lot more than we know about, so I wouldn't rule out the possibility of telepathy or even telekinesis at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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