boulegue Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 In response to post #24568089. #24568194, #24568259, #24568389, #24568499 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote lilquickguy wrote: Quote Reaper0021 wrote: You're not seeing the broader picture. Until you do....no sense in explaining it as I can't type that well or fast. Research what this CAN lead too. Logic and Intelligence walk hand in hand and are close bed fellows. Quote boulegue wrote: sadly real developer jobs are rare especially those most modders want to do.... not agreeing with reaper since i think he is massively exaggerating but just getting a real developer job is not that easy... and theres a huge difference between working as a modder for yourself having free creativity and working for the "big evil" developers Quote Reaper0021 wrote: Not agreeing with boulegue as I think he is underestimating the true ramifications of what can happen here, but this can lead to all sorts of OTHER paywall issues here. THOSE are the problems. Quote mkess wrote: Yes, otherwise we would not have:- micro-DLC frauds.- Payed beta called "early access"- Preorder, leading to bughells.- Casual games, for the braindead masses.- Unplayabe Vanilla games like Gothic 3In all these cases, there is ONE and ONLY ONE reason:GREED!And so, the mods will be another point in that list:- Paid mods. With DMCA takedown notice danger for ALL other modders and the community. They even mention it in their description!WELL DONE, STEAM!please share your research with us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AceeQ Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 What a shame that Bethesda and Valve decided to go the commercial way with modding. I'm also a mod maker and for me it always was a hobby I did with passion. I love modding and I love to share mods here on nexus or also on my website. They always were free and will be. It really hurts to see this. I can understand that some mod makers want some reward for their work, especially if they spend houndreds of hours into making a mod. At least some of them, the really big and awesome mods, which would be worth paying 1 or 2 €/$. One problem I see over a longer period: What will happen when the next ES or FALLOUT game is released? Why would anyone give away his work for free, if he could get a small compensation for it? Instead of free mods their may be only payable mods in the future. That's really what makes me sad. One of the best modding communitys will be splitted or destroyed. Maybe it's just for some time until the storm has settled, but what if this really becomes the norm... Mods were always done by passion, as a hobby. This is not a business!!! I'm out. Best wishes to all of you :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper0021 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 (edited) In response to post #24568089. #24568194, #24568259, #24568389, #24568499, #24568534, #24568629, #24568659 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote lilquickguy wrote: Quote Reaper0021 wrote: You're not seeing the broader picture. Until you do....no sense in explaining it as I can't type that well or fast. Research what this CAN lead too. Logic and Intelligence walk hand in hand and are close bed fellows. Quote boulegue wrote: sadly real developer jobs are rare especially those most modders want to do.... not agreeing with reaper since i think he is massively exaggerating but just getting a real developer job is not that easy... and theres a huge difference between working as a modder for yourself having free creativity and working for the "big evil" developers Quote Reaper0021 wrote: Not agreeing with boulegue as I think he is underestimating the true ramifications of what can happen here, but this can lead to all sorts of OTHER paywall issues here. THOSE are the problems. Quote mkess wrote: Yes, otherwise we would not have:- micro-DLC frauds.- Payed beta called "early access"- Preorder, leading to bughells.- Casual games, for the braindead masses.- Unplayabe Vanilla games like Gothic 3In all these cases, there is ONE and ONLY ONE reason:GREED!And so, the mods will be another point on that list:- Paid mods. With DMCA takedown notice danger for ALL other modders and the community. They even mention it in their description!WELL DONE, STEAM!I am so angry. Quote boulegue wrote: please share your research with us Quote boulegue wrote: the DMCA claim through steam only goes for the mods posted for charge on the steam workshop, the DMCA claim option exists since the DMCA not just since today.... Quote calfurius wrote: @mkess well with that logic everything should be free. Just because greed has caused some problems, doesn't mean charging money for something will always be a bad idea.Paying for mods will have a learning period, and it will be bumpy. But I honestly think that this could be a good idea if it's done correctly.THAT "boulegue" is the issues in small form what I'm referring to thank you mkess. He listed only some of the problems that can arise from this. Modding is a very small part of where this sort of thing can lead.No research needed go look at "Early Access" games or "Pay to Win" or the DLC issues with games being cut apart and levels being held back until you pay $7.99 for them, etc. STEAM is full of "Research". Edited April 23, 2015 by Reaper0021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted2806759User Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 In response to post #24567554. #24567709, #24567759, #24567899, #24567969, #24568219, #24568329, #24568424 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote bioshards wrote: Quote AmeerMahmood wrote: Keep in mind, dude, the mod authors only get 25% of the cost of the mod through the workshop.So if, for instance, a mod costs $5 (cough wet and cold), the author will only be getting $1.25. But, thinking that, this could also be an incentive to charge large amounts of money for mods, just so authors can get a decent "cut".IMO though, this whole thing is ridiculous, £2 for a mod? Most of my damn PC games cost me £3.50. Quote Jakal256 wrote: To add to that there's 2 creators to wet and cold so they split it 50 50 so 50% of 25%. What a meager payout for all the hate they're getting right now... Quote boulegue wrote: pretty sure they got a "little" extra from valve Quote bioshards wrote: so now I have to spend 20 dollars on the game, 5 dollars on project nevada, 6 dollars on weapon retexture project, 10 dollars on.... you get the picture. Quote mkess wrote: If they accept only 25% of the income, they deserve all they got now, alone for their weak math skills and the missing common sense.I as modder from "X2-the threat" would laugh steam in their face, for the idea to make 75% with MY hard work. And the MK3 trader scripts were hard work, believe me. No, sir. I get 90% and you 10%, would be my answer. You have done exact NOTHING, to earn these money! Otherwise I will give it the players for free. ... And, please, make the payment optional! This is a sick joke, right? Only 25%? Quote icecreamassassin wrote: this whole "$2 for a mod when I can pay $3 for a whole game?" argument doesn't really hold water. Look at the "play for free, pay to succeed" model of MMO's? WoW has the subscription model locked up tight despite the fact it's run its course in my mind, while everyone else does the whole premium currency thing. Apps do it all the time: pay $5 for 200 game gold, and people do it. You aren't actually paying for intangible software, you are actually paying for completely imaginary stuff, which is even worse. That's essentially what they are banking on with this new mod fee model. Quote boulegue wrote: modders for TF2&Dota2 get 25% aswell and they can make a lot of money.... i dont skyrim mods will reach those numbers but valve is doing fairly well with this system(by the way thank you mkess for your work on the X games! 3000hours and counting on x-3)Now that's it's been mentioned, it probably is true - Valve has probably paid a hefty sum to the initial modders who have put some files on the SW for this paid-mod launch.I highly doubt that Isoku is getting $1.25 and that being all... I'm sure there was some other incentive.Regardless, guy is a great modder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manaburn Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Wow... this must be the worst idea in the past... 15 years and will damage the modding community even more than basically anything. I just hope people don't buy the s#*! on there. Let them starve... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boulegue Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 In response to post #24568089. #24568194, #24568259, #24568389, #24568499, #24568534, #24568589 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote lilquickguy wrote: Quote Reaper0021 wrote: You're not seeing the broader picture. Until you do....no sense in explaining it as I can't type that well or fast. Research what this CAN lead too. Logic and Intelligence walk hand in hand and are close bed fellows. Quote boulegue wrote: sadly real developer jobs are rare especially those most modders want to do.... not agreeing with reaper since i think he is massively exaggerating but just getting a real developer job is not that easy... and theres a huge difference between working as a modder for yourself having free creativity and working for the "big evil" developers Quote Reaper0021 wrote: Not agreeing with boulegue as I think he is underestimating the true ramifications of what can happen here, but this can lead to all sorts of OTHER paywall issues here. THOSE are the problems. Quote mkess wrote: Yes, otherwise we would not have:- micro-DLC frauds.- Payed beta called "early access"- Preorder, leading to bughells.- Casual games, for the braindead masses.- Unplayabe Vanilla games like Gothic 3In all these cases, there is ONE and ONLY ONE reason:GREED!And so, the mods will be another point on that list:- Paid mods. With DMCA takedown notice danger for ALL other modders and the community. They even mention it in their description!WELL DONE, STEAM!I am so angry. Quote boulegue wrote: please share your research with us Quote Reaper0021 wrote: THAT "boulegue" is the issues in small form what I'm referring to thank you mkess. He listed only some of the problems that can arise from this. Modding is a very small part of where this sort of thing can lead.the DMCA claim through steam only goes for the mods posted for charge on the steam workshop, the DMCA claim option exists since the DMCA not just since today.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calfurius Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 In response to post #24568089. #24568194, #24568259, #24568389, #24568499, #24568534, #24568589, #24568629 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote lilquickguy wrote: Quote Reaper0021 wrote: You're not seeing the broader picture. Until you do....no sense in explaining it as I can't type that well or fast. Research what this CAN lead too. Logic and Intelligence walk hand in hand and are close bed fellows. Quote boulegue wrote: sadly real developer jobs are rare especially those most modders want to do.... not agreeing with reaper since i think he is massively exaggerating but just getting a real developer job is not that easy... and theres a huge difference between working as a modder for yourself having free creativity and working for the "big evil" developers Quote Reaper0021 wrote: Not agreeing with boulegue as I think he is underestimating the true ramifications of what can happen here, but this can lead to all sorts of OTHER paywall issues here. THOSE are the problems. Quote mkess wrote: Yes, otherwise we would not have:- micro-DLC frauds.- Payed beta called "early access"- Preorder, leading to bughells.- Casual games, for the braindead masses.- Unplayabe Vanilla games like Gothic 3In all these cases, there is ONE and ONLY ONE reason:GREED!And so, the mods will be another point on that list:- Paid mods. With DMCA takedown notice danger for ALL other modders and the community. They even mention it in their description!WELL DONE, STEAM!I am so angry. Quote boulegue wrote: please share your research with us Quote Reaper0021 wrote: THAT "boulegue" is the issues in small form what I'm referring to thank you mkess. He listed only some of the problems that can arise from this. Modding is a very small part of where this sort of thing can lead. Quote boulegue wrote: the DMCA claim through steam only goes for the mods posted for charge on the steam workshop, the DMCA claim option exists since the DMCA not just since today....@mkess well with that logic everything should be free. Just because greed has caused some problems, doesn't mean charging money for something will always be a bad idea.Paying for mods will have a learning period, and it will be bumpy. But I honestly think that this could be a good idea if it's done correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambria Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 In response to post #24567939. #24568149, #24568224, #24568229, #24568289 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote plaxeko wrote: Quote ambria wrote: Yeap this is going to cause all kinds of headaches.What if someones buys mod AThen buys mod BAnd they are incompatible and screw up their game.Who do they blame?Can they get a refund for one of the mods, since they can't use both?This could be a huge mess Quote icecreamassassin wrote: yeah not to mention all the mods that are released full of bugs all on their own, never mind compatibility issues. Value sure as hell isn't going to shell out money to have a crew of people rate the stability and compatibility of each and every mod, they just see dollar signs and a bunch of people willing to get on board creating content for them for a sliver of the pie. Quality will drop way down, and some modders will even start pulling their content from Nexus in favor of trying to sell it, which kinda stinks Quote Jakal256 wrote: Absolutely, if we had no more crashing, no more conflictions, no more performance hits, a mod manager of our choice than I might buy into this. It would certainly make it easier to find what you wanted. I would pay for uniform stability. However guaranteeing these things is like next to impossible I understand. Quote boulegue wrote: all of that is explained in their FAQ and the burden is shifted to the buyer... sad thingHave a link to that FAQ by any chance?I only read about this here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boulegue Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 In response to post #24568539. Reveal hidden contents Quote AceeQ wrote: dota started as a mod, counter strike started as a mod, team fortress started as a mod..... its been a business for well over 10 years just very little people could make money with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deleted2806759User Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 In response to post #24568469. Reveal hidden contents Quote FoxR wrote: Well then, according to Valve then... Piloting this idea with CS:GO turned out a success! The Skyrim SW will be saturated will crap and people will hopefully have no other choice but to come here and be "educated". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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