Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[Knightofthe7shades]

In response to post #24642989. #24643104, #24644544, #24644724, #24644809, #24645139, #24645529 are all replies on the same post.

Boerner wrote:

Amelli wrote: +1 agree

benissugger wrote: I agree to a certain degree. but he takes the 5% from valves cut if i read correctly and kind of gives it back to the nexus community in the way of accepting less ads. it's not like he's taking 5% of the modders 25%.

SchwererGustav wrote: I guess the 5% was just to get Nexus involved and to send the Lawyers later...
we will see how this goes...

Vidicus wrote: This is what I believe will happen.

darkwing9912 wrote: Um. Not really I don't agree. He isn't taking the modders money and profiting really. Think about it, the Nexus is listed as a service provider people can select when they upload a Paid Mod, he isn't straight-up TAKING modders money, he is instead allowing mod authors to donate and share their stream of revenue with the site. He isn't taking money from the modders, he gets part of Beths/Valves cut from the mods income should they choose to select the Nexus as a service provider.

He would surely have to be crazy to turn down free money that would otherwise be going to Bethesda or Steam, right? I am outraged by the entire Paid Mod fiasco and I think it's wrong, but what Dark0ne is doing isn't wrong in my eyes, he's just providing a way for those who choose to make their mods Paid to give back to the Nexus by taking 1-5% (based on the amount of providers the modder chooses, up to five can be chosen) of the money the companies would earn.

I think he is justified entirely as being a listed Service Provider, because that's what he does, for free.

Avastgard wrote: I don't know where you got those figures, but the fact that some modders think that mods should be free does not give them the right to demand the same from others. Each modder has the right to charge or not by their mods.

If a user doesn't know s/he doesn't have to pay for mods, even though the workshop itself still has (and will probably always have) free mods, cannot be pointed out as the Nexus' fault.

@benissugger
You're right, he's not taking 5% of the modder's 25%, he's taking 5% of what should be at least 50% (when comparing modding services to Twitch livestreaming services), preferably 75%. Valve and Bethesda are not tight on finances. The Nexus sites less so, but not nearly to the extent of many mod authors out there.

Like Boerner mentioned, the Nexus is officially supporting this system that the community does not support when taking ANY amount of revenue share offered by Valve from this system. Dark0ne COULD HAVE either remained neutral in this controversy, or even (civily) oppose this system with the power he holds as the 'CEO' of this site, and the community that houses it.

Instead, he got hoodwinked into Valve's sweet talking. I understand he has good intentions, and sincerely trust that he makes these decisions in the interest of the mod authors and the community. Unfortunately, Valve made him forget that this is not what the community wants, but due to his own vulnerability to manipulation, and pride to reject that fact.

So @Dark0ne (should he happen to come across this), please don't forget the community that has allowed you to make a living. Don't appeal to a broken, exploitable system. Oppose it, fix it, then make profit, or pretend it doesn't exist. But if you genuinely think the current system is SATISFACTORY, not just GOOD ENOUGH, then so be it. We are entitled to our own opinion too, and voice our opinion in a civil manner.

[twhelan]

In response to post #24645359.

vram1974 wrote:

Ditto. And I for one would like to say that I respect the position this has imposed upon you (and the modders) and wholeheartedly support your attitude and response to it.

Whatever may eventually happen, I will never regret supporting you, this site, and the community. Thank you all.

[volfin]

You're absolutely right. It's amazing how silly people get. Overall this changes nothing. I think in the end, this will only grow the community, as many who had no motivation to mod will now have one.

[xBlitzerx]

To those saying "no one is forcing you to use/buy mods". Have you never heard the term "slippery slope?".

 

What happens when Fallout 4 is released lacking a lot of basic features because they want you buying mods for it? Why make good chairs, weather effects, terrain or even textures in general when they know modders will do it for them and then take 75% of the cost?

 

Skyrim is unplayable for me and a lot of others without SkyUI. I will pretty much never play Skyrim again unless another free UI mod comes around. I have around 90 or so mods installed for Skyrim. I think 1-2 add actual extra content. The rest is just improving/fixing issues with the base game.

[Dark0ne]

In response to post #24645514.

Slincoginte wrote:

Also could you be a bit clearer on what the nexus is expected to do as an authorized provider of workshop?

Absolutely nothing. We have zero obligations to Valve/Bethesda other than not sharing revenue details.

[Paragon777]

In response to post #24644689. #24645379, #24645579, #24645684 are all replies on the same post.

Vidicus wrote:

PharCry wrote: I'm sorry if something I mentioned came off as offensive, but what words did I put in your mouth? And how was I being aggressive? Don't post things without making references.

This is very, very simple as far as I can see (for now at least). Valve is giving modders the opportunity to ask money for their content, their work, their time AFTER their own work or schooling is done and they have time to work on the crazy stuff that we download and use with only giving them a simple thanks. Users decide whether or not they pay for said content. The field will level itself from there. If no one wants to pay for it, they won't pay for it.

Creators have the option of not posting content on Steam Workshop OR the Nexus and make it available elsewhere. This is not the end of the world, but something that needs watched as it is a VERY new thing, and is change, which the vast majority of people are scared to death of for some reason. Be mindful, watch as things evolve, and inform the community appropriately. End of story. There's nothing aggressive about that. It's mindful, and supportive. Appreciate what you have, and help these content creators to expand their horizons and build even more quality content. Some are acting as if this is solely for the benfit of Valve and the Nexus. Yes the price model is questionable (I mentioned that in another post, sorry), but change takes time. Give it some thought and consideration.

speash wrote: I'm not affraid of change, it's just that nothing ever changes for the good as soon as money comes into play.

PharCry wrote: That's a very general statement speash, one with no relevant arguments. Again, another person shooting from the hip... It's what people do best on the Internet. People need to gather some constructive thoughts and criticisms about this situation, which some have been. Trolling and random one-two lines statements that have a mild similarity with what's being discussed in the OP are not helpful.

The "change" thing is an excuse.. Yeah I get its reality also..
This is effectively now a business and that wont stop or protect people from people because by contradicting their own stance on profiting from their content opens them to a dozen versions of litigation. Let alone no form of quality control with a mod in nature causing instability or damage to a game. The distribution of profits lend to sloppy get rich quick modding rather then paying modders for real work; You effectively just came up with a whole 'nother nickle and dime scheme and turned modders into a sweatshop.
You might as well sell water as medicine to people.
The reality is now the down and dirty of law and greed will be involved. If not here and now (which is ALREADY happening Via Chesko and now the SKYui situation)
The reality here and now is not change its Laws and greed. These will drive the direction this goes in. I dont know how to put it. Call it change; but its manipulation...

Change is like telling me about Change while the forest burns down around us.

It IS the end unless some change is done. Why do people not get it; its business 101.
In order to protect the final structure if one even comes about, it will require a new form of control that will certainly effect real modders and places like Nexus.
Nexus modders will be the new pirates by definition..
Abuse, slander, and claims wont just happen at Steam because of how sloppy this is but will then be brought to nexus. As someone on Nexus for example questionably post something simi similar to a best seller on WS but in reality is hardly noticeable... Well then they would have to effectively stop the nexus modder as its cutting into their profit. So a system and a line between sanctioned modding and non sanctioned will come about...
Which is why to avoid that it seems they plan on bringing out an entire new system or set of tools for the next games in order to keep it bound to Steamworkshop only.
So ie it kills modding.

[HalcyonAnd0n]

In response to post #24645544.

jmeks23 wrote:

"HOWEVER, I don't think that means compensation is deserved. Not to say you shouldn't be able to donate to these creators and what not, but I just don't feel like I should be forced to pay for any type of mod."

So they can't ask for money, for something they created, put their own hard work into? They absolutely must allow everyone to have it for free if they have shared it with the community? For something they've poured tens, hundreds or more hours into? Testing with other users, gathering feedback and data, troubleshooting, etc? All the while doing their day job and or whatever else they may have to contend with in regards to life?

"The thing about mods is you can have up to 200+ running at a time, and most people here probably play with somewhere between 25-100. Imagine even paying $.99 for 100 mods? And most mods I'm seeing on the workshop are charging more than $.99. Why would I ever do that?"

They're not making it a requirement to charge money for mods! Too many people are used to the idea of just having mods for free. This introduces a way that content creators can actually make a little money for what they are doing (hell maybe consider downloading Blender and NifSkope and the Creation Kit, learning how they work and making your own mods? WOW WHAT A CONCEPT). Why is this a bad thing?

I'm not saying it again after this: IMO Valve needs to reconsider how much they are taking as a cut from mod makers, but the mod makers do deserve some compensation IF THEY DEEM IT NECESSARY. We can pay for it if we like it (there is a 24 hour policy, probably should be 48 but again, something that needs dealt with on Valve's end, and something WE as a community can respond to). Stop crying about this, give input as it evolves, and stop acting like this only benefits Valve and Nexus! Edited April 25, 2015 by PharCry

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24643354. #24643854, #24643949, #24644484, #24645019, #24645409, #24645524 are all replies on the same post.

joz23 wrote:

Qrygg wrote: First of all, no one is forcing you to buy mods, they are a 100% optional part of PC gaming.

Second of all, Nexus is not "in bed" with Valve and Bethesda. Nexus happens to be the largest or one of the largest mod repositories for TESV: Skyrim, and it would be foolish to not have relations with Bethesda, who created the game, and Valve, who distribute the game. If Bethesda got pissed at Nexus, they could issue a Cease and Desist letter for using trademarked/copyrighted material. They support the modding community because, frankly, it means better reviews and more playing of their games on the PC platform; and they don't have to pay a dime of it.

If anything I choose to view the cut from Valve as a thumb-in-cheek move: "Valve is allowing modders to charge money for their mods? Well let's take a piece of the pie, no need for Valve to grow rich off modders hard work!"

PharCry wrote: Qrygg is right, no one is forcing you to download and install content that is not included with the game itself.

But the cut Valve is asking, is a bit absurd... 75% for something they never even touched as far as the game goes? That seems a bit shady IMO...

sh0d4n wrote:

First of all, no one is forcing you to buy mods, they are a 100% optional part of PC gaming.

100% optional FREE part of PC gaming.. Until yesterday.

Second of all, Nexus is not "in bed" with Valve and Bethesda. Nexus happens to be the largest or one of the largest mod repositories for TESV: Skyrim, and it would be foolish to not have relations with Bethesda, who created the game, and Valve, who distribute the game. If Bethesda got pissed at Nexus, they could issue a Cease and Desist letter for using trademarked/copyrighted material. They support the modding community because, frankly, it means better reviews and more playing of their games on the PC platform; and they don't have to pay a dime of it.

So its better to sponge as the community slowly dies?

We are talking a slow death here. May as well take what I can as the ship goes down?

I honestly dont know what to believe. All I know for sure is that this is not good for the modding freedom we have all come love. I dont understand why so many are blind to where it is clearly going to end up. Its like they resigned themselve to the fact that its going to happen no matter what, so the'll just position themselves to benefit from it while they can.

People really are selfish. They are only thinking about the now, not the future generations of modders.

sunshinenbrick wrote: The truth in this is painful to read. Look what Apple did to Linux. Fight the good fight people!

Paragon777 wrote: He's not wrong..
Its not about just complaining or being as simple as "not having to buy" hes talking the truth about how it's heading and what it means. He is simply saying the natural cause and effect of things that WILL 100% happen unless this is reversed.
Its just business and statistics. It will dmg modding.
Sure it will still be around; because it was always a tight nit community however that's IF they don't find a way to eliminate non sanctioned modding as it could be made non sanctioned modding under this coarse in order to protect themselves with this model.
This entire model can be used as a way to profit off modders and at the same time turn all non financial generating contributions to be labeled as some form of piracy..
Since the Publisher is not getting their chunk and or it distracts from their sales.. Do you understand for example a nexus mod could conflict with a well known steam sold mod this would cause conflict that would require actions.
He came up with a valid point; in order to control quality and content because this has opened a mass tear in space of potential lawsuits they will force it to be workshop bound. Let alone by nature with current systems it encourages low quality and sloppy work or then the fact that mods in general brake your game unless you're a master at it lol. Let alone no possible way to even CHECK the quality of a mod yet your still charging for it?
IF MORE control was given to modders via better software tools this could be lessened. OR if Beth took the mods in then looked over them and made sure they worked; by then releasing their own version then giving you your cut.
Its 101 stuff.
Its great to be hopeful and all but this is the agenda. Its was not Val/Beth saying boy gee wiz lets give back to our community... Matter of fact its more like well lets get this "blank" storm over with before the next games come in. This will net them double profits when it does.. Its about Profit...
This is nickle and dimming after a slew of a yr plus now of this kind of thing escalating by companies. At the same time it is literally almost like setting p a sweat shoo lol.

At the same time the current system encourages and rewards fast and sloppy work; it appeals to the get rich quick types; not the modders who work hard and should get something. Even then tech they are using them for cheap content that makes them hundreds and the modders nothing. Again Keep in mind this is LEADING to the next 2 games.
You will get 1000s of greedy people suddenly participating and the slander, he/she stole, used, etc will be impossible to ignore.
The patchiness of making such claims when in these cases people use the same resources; of which none belong to either in the first place is hilarious. But because your being paid this changes that all. Its contradicts to the publishers own stance and IS open to legality.
I mean my god Chesko already got hit day one by a claim; legit or not.. When the get rich YT/twitch wannabe desperadoes join in on this it going to be all hell braking lose. And if they don't start now they will for sure on next release.
At the same time we then have the current debacle going down right now..
SKYui is required for most modders that are new to even intermediate at this stage for MCM capability alone.
Now he has pulled out from nexus (well all future development.) A Core mod needed now for most mods.
At the same time lol even SKyui makes use of SKSE... So SKYui profiting off of not just mod users but modders should be forced to pay SKSE should they not. Im just using this as a small example; but this is the "blank"fest that will be coming.
And you know what who is to say that Beth should not have included their own caked in system like SKui has for modders. Because by not doing so and no controlling profit from both markets they are effectively able to nickle and dime people on a whole 'nother lvl!!!!!
Which is why I said if they are going through with this they are goign to have to give access to much better tools to the communities next time around.

Your not wrong either but you are not at all looking at the reality of the business model nor the effect it will have. The loopholes that will open over this kind of exchange BECAUSE of the BAD people will be so large that if they truly want to keep something functional up they will by nature be required to consolidate their set up; which means the end of nexus and the like.
(Unless of coarse they have something going on behind the scene; which imo is their own business and non of ours.) But you give to much credit to thinking they will just let things stand as is with the way things will go. They might scratch each others back; im not saying its not possible.
But again its the legalities that would by defacto lead to it having to be ended. .ie you cant have your cake and eat it too.
This then leads to a future of companies now getting their content from players at Sweatshop value while they company makes bank. And in order to keep order they would have to lock down any modding not going through official channels as a form of piracy.

Why do you play this down so simple as a god forbid they let modders add an ability to pay.
LOL its an agenda not a handout..

Yes I know English but im bad at it..

shadowslasher410 wrote: You... did read the entire thing right? even the part where it says this:

"I was not under an NDA, I was simply told "we haven’t announced this information publicly yet, so we appreciate you keeping this under wraps for now.". If you believe I should have outed them right there and then and completely destroyed my relationship with Valve and Bethesda then I think you're being naive."

Oh, and by the way, if you think Valve is the first to want to profit off of modders' blood, sweat and tears, you're sorely mistaken. If you Google ANY sufficiently popular mod, I can guarantee you that there's gonna be pirates selling what was supposed to be a FREE MOD for MONEY. And guess what? NONE of that money goes to the mod author, and there are more than a fair few number of morons who will buy it...

How about a model where jobs are offered to the best and most talented modders? Then really will see some inovation in the way companies interact with communities.

[Azradun]

In response to post #24645764.

volfin wrote:

Before, no one had the motivation to scam people, now they will have one.

[HalcyonAnd0n]

In response to post #24645764. #24646449 is also a reply to the same post.

volfin wrote:

Azradun wrote: Before, no one had the motivation to scam people, now they will have one.

If no one wants to pay for the mod, they don't have to. What are you even talking about Azradun? And the 24 hour policy is there as well. I swear I'm done after this post unless I open my browser again...