Steam Service Providers, and some how needing to clarify the Nexus stance again

[Fowldragon]

The Bible Says it would be easier to draw a Camel through the eye of a needle than A "RICH" man entering the Kingdom of Heaven. In virtually all spiritual disciplines, the ultimate goal is achieved through poverty, humility and COMMUNITY. Why then, is/are the Most Wealthy and Powerful Businesses in the World ..RELIGIOUS? The reason Bronze-Age Mythology still survives, is because it has ALWAYS been linked with MONEY.

 

So maybe you're not a religious person. Maybe your motivation is simply about doing the right thing...giving of yourself and not selling out. I can respect that, but I also respect the acceptance of reality. Principle and Conviction is a luxury for most of us; at some point, we have to be content with the knowledge that we held out as long as we could.

 

There are Absolutely amazing MOD Authors with incredible bodies of work. There are also talented Authors who have a bit of an attitude. These few seem to think that their offering is equal to mapping the Human Genome. In an actual MARKETPLACE, would that attitude be swallowed? and if not, Would that person make any money?

 

As consumers, we have been spoiled with a system that literally offers TERA Bytes worth of free content...and now that we see the potential for a future that requires some manner of compensation, it is all-of-a-sudden a moral and ethical challenge...

 

For those who are in a position to Champion a CAUSE...Thank You. If it should come to pass, that this service can no longer remain viable. I wouldn't cancel another HOLIDAY trying to apologize.

[Acidbuk]

In response to post #24682284. #24682924 is also a reply to the same post.

Acidbuk wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: Good points. What I am trying to find out is where the morality, the respect in all of this.

I asked a question earlier but I think it got lost among the longer posts.

When the first Beth sdk was released was it just a big TOC or was there a friendly dialouge between the developer and community?

My reason for asking is becasue the way that the pay for mods has been rolled out is very cruel to the authors who made them because they made them out of the good will and love of games, with I imagine the blessing of Beth... I mean they have had some 10 years to take legal action.

My point is that this is a nasty way to intrduce their customers to the developing world of digital copyright. Why is there no communication from them? Why not talk to their audiences like adults as let's face it, most of us saw something like this was inevitable. But why oh why so aggressively? Or just plain clumsy??

Bethesda has a history of just dropping the creation-kit with an EULA that when you crunch down the legal speak boils to "Go Nuts. Just don't charge anyone for it". which is standard fare for most SDK's from pretty much any Developer that puts one out. Oh I agree with you, this is an absolutely brutal way to introduce a community that has co-operated for years, to the concept of digital copyright and licensing. licensing is not something anyone really wants to do, its one of those necessary evils which come part and parcel of Software development and its amazingly awesome that as a community we (collectively Users and Creators) have been able to avoid using them, instead using an informal "Please don't steal my stuff just ask if you want to use it" unfortunately as this moves forward, we are almost certainly going to see the term "licensing" as things formalise up between paid and Free mods and what can and cannot be used. I suspect Bethesda will keep quiet and ride out the storm of malcontent until things dye down, then they'll come out with some PR speak about 'We are Bethesda value your input on the recent opportunities for monetization of mods, and we are listening to your feed back and moving forward together with the community'

As for why now? that I couldn't tell you., I would kind of get it if they did this for Fallout 4 or TES-6 whenever that comes out because your dealing with a blank slate. but injecting this into an already vibrant and established ecosystem? is like introducing an invasive plant species. Everyone is scrambling - I really have Sympathy for Robin/Dark0ne right now, Guy had to cancel a holiday to deal with the fallout (no pun intended) from this, between Mod authors taking their mods down to migrate to the workshop, other mod authors scrambling to take their mods down because they are afraid someone will take their work and put IT on the workshop for money as their own (DMCA's are no easy thing), and users trying to download as many mods as they can in panic in case their favourite mods go Pay-Wall. its got to be just a little bit insane, investing all that time and money in the infrastructure upgrade was forward thinking. just not in the way he would have liked I guess.

I do find Valves/Bethesda TOC's morally questionable, in particular how its al-edged Chesko was told by a Valve employee that it was okay to use someone else's free content and include that and charge of it and not have to ask any permission what so-ever, that is not Chesko fault. However I find the concept of Early Access Mods Morally dubious - Early access it and of itself is tittering on the brink, paying for Early Access mods is so far down the slippery slope that I doubt you could even see the top any more.

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24688489.

Fowldragon wrote:

The compensation will be going to (mostly) the wrong people. What Pay Mods will do is give the wrong incentive for future modders... modders who do not know and are not part of the long history of game devlopment and pushing the boundaries. If it all goes pear shaped it will bite Valvesda in the ass.

Shame is it will also hurt the "ethical" gamers out there. That being said there will always be new games and new platforms.

[mALX1]

In response to post #24684539.

twhelan wrote:

This.

[FillipeMattos]

 

Do you know the reason of the success of Skyrim? It is the modder community. Many people purchase the game on your PC to enjoy the free mods that exist for him. There are thousands of mods that are advertised for this game every day. If the mods start being charged, I guarantee that the number of people who will be interested in them will decrease gradually. The mods are a freedom of expression that encourages creativity of the author. Nobody is forced to create mods, but people do it because they like to try it.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

JFpaes15 commented to me

 

--------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Want to know why people are angry about it?

 

 

1- There are mods that consult the game, and free of problems with bugs and improve on a technical level to be able to be playable without problems. An unofficial patch patch, imagine if you had to pay just to make your game work right? Imagine if Dark Souls were released today, you would have to pay just to fix the game and play it right, because the developer is too lazy to do it.

 

2- There are mods that do not work with other mods, and no one knows whether or not handle not attempt to use it, or if you already have a mod and buy another, it may be that the mod you bought does not work, and the only way to know is trying, or waiting for a sucker Tantar first to receive feedback on such mod compatibility. Also the fact several mods only work on version (x) of a game, so if the developer release an update, the mod can not catch, which can make the useless mod.

 

3- Now you can pay for mods, almost no one will keep doing mods like that, but to make money. A community that has always worked good way since its inception will turn a big deal because everyone will just want to know the money.

 

4 Mods that once were free, will now have to be paid. Have been deleted more than 2000 of the Nexus mods, they do not want that to download for free when you have the option to pay for them.

 

5- This is not good pros modders because they will only receive 25% of the profit from each sale of your mod, the rest is with Valve and owner of the game. Not only that, but pro modder see the color of money, the mod (or mods) it needs to raise at least $ 400, and like most mods are cheap, the guy will not get paid soon.

 

6- You have people stealing other people's mods to be able to sell Steam, looks s***. The guy did not do the mod, but he fell from a website that distributes free mods, to be able to sell Steam and cash in on the person who made the mod f***ing. And the only way to get this guy is knowing who the mod, because Valve makes sure to not make a 'Quality Check' in the mods, they simply accept and ready, f*** if it is stolen, f*** if it's something like genital scrotum realistic horse (This mod is, to not kidding), f*** all, because they sell s***, is that Valve will come out in profit, then it is not even there for quality or if it is stolen, as long as she earn money with it. It will just take these sales items if someone reports them to be stolen, or being offensive.

 

7- Valve wants to cash in on a healthy community made by gamers for gamers, which since its inception aimed to create and share content with other gamers. It's the type you get, for example, a nursing home, where several people volunteer to help the old people for free, and start charging the old for the services of volunteers, and give just a little bit of the amount received pros volunteers. And these volunteers will begin to help the old people just for the money, not because it is a good deed.

 

This is all a big bitching, I'm starting to like less and less of Valve, nowadays it does s***, and only cares about money, money, money. Good pros modders my egg, if they really were interested to encourage modders as money, they would not give a measly 25% of their mods, and not expect to get to a certain amount to be able to pay the guy did the mod.

 

The right is to place a donation button, gives those who want to, has many modders who made good money by donations, and they never thought about doing mods for the money, but because it's what they like and why they want to share their work with each other. Only course, if you only had a donation option, who would get most of the profit would be the modder, not Valve and Valve does not want it.

 

And not come with the excuse 'but you are not obliged to buy, buy anyone', the same thing was said about DLC, and looks s*** that gave almost all AAA released comes with little content, for later 'complete' the game with DLCs that are expensive to boot.

 

This happened because everyone was quiet ai instead of acting against, criticize or protest. It's that kind attitude and passive thinking and suckers scrotum which accept any s*** that happens that is f***ing with the video game market until the f***ing Nintendo, who said he never would launch DLC, entered the wave. "

Edited April 26, 2015 by FillipeMattos

[anonownsyou]

In response to post #24679789. #24680359, #24680884, #24680909, #24681594, #24683019, #24683494, #24686649, #24686714, #24687229 are all replies on the same post.

GhostAgent wrote:

Welewa wrote: Personally, I like this idea. I would endorse it :D and I would donate to my favorite modders as a show of support and appreciation.

bigdeano89 wrote: A "would you like to donate?" popup has already came up on my download page on a few mods today, that made me think about donating, which I did! If you put the idea into peoples heads they will do it.

TKHBMVP wrote: I like this and I'm happy Dark0ne has already implemented the popup note to notice users about the donation feature here on Nexus.

mALX1 wrote:
These are some fantastic ideas. I would also like to see a donate button on that row of buttons for the Endorsements and Votes - so the person who comes back to endorse sees the donate option then; while they are endorsing and commenting the mod.

(To me, it is a better option than the one popping up on download before you even know if you like the mod or if it works).

secondmoto381 wrote: This idea is the key, it would help bring some modders who have already stated that they are moving to the Workshop for the money back to the Nexus. Not to mention that tons more people would donate on the "merit system".

SjoertJansen wrote: @mALX1

The donate button is already there, next to the vote button.

And I generally like the ideas, Good ideas. The popup is already there as well. Just activate the feature in your edit attributes.

Elta1 wrote: Wow... I think that is very cool. Trying to make a system more on promoting donation by not requiring it. I think he is on to something.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @ GhostAgent

Your intellectual property has been Endorsed!

AverageZombie wrote: This is a great idea if Nexus was a primary distributor but this has potential political ramifications with Valve and Bethesda considering they now stand to make money off of this. Rolling out a system to endorse donations on this site means Nexus would be pressuring mod authors to create content here (which is good, don't get me wrong) instead of on the Steam Workshop to get their income which can be seen as attempting to strong arm Bethesda and Valve. Doing that any time soon could damage relations considering how much public opinion would be swayed.

It's like a pendulum that's been lifted by with a string that represents change. If he enrolls a new system of income it cuts the string granting immediate relief of pressure but causes the public opinion to sway heavily and without direction. So in effect, cutting the string create a much more volatile situation.

This is good. Yes.

[Servius1234]

I'd be happy to contribute more funds, but I'm not comfortable giving financial data to that many online places. I've seen some sites allow you to contribute through Amazon. I thought that was a really good idea. Would such a thing be possible?

[sunshinenbrick]

In response to post #24682284. #24682924, #24688774 are all replies on the same post.

Acidbuk wrote:

sunshinenbrick wrote: Good points. What I am trying to find out is where the morality, the respect in all of this.

I asked a question earlier but I think it got lost among the longer posts.

When the first Beth sdk was released was it just a big TOC or was there a friendly dialouge between the developer and community?

My reason for asking is becasue the way that the pay for mods has been rolled out is very cruel to the authors who made them because they made them out of the good will and love of games, with I imagine the blessing of Beth... I mean they have had some 10 years to take legal action.

My point is that this is a nasty way to intrduce their customers to the developing world of digital copyright. Why is there no communication from them? Why not talk to their audiences like adults as let's face it, most of us saw something like this was inevitable. But why oh why so aggressively? Or just plain clumsy??

Acidbuk wrote: Bethesda has a history of just dropping the creation-kit with an EULA that when you crunch down the legal speak boils to "Go Nuts. Just don't charge anyone for it". which is standard fare for most SDK's from pretty much any Developer that puts one out. Oh I agree with you, this is an absolutely brutal way to introduce a community that has co-operated for years, to the concept of digital copyright and licensing. licensing is not something anyone really wants to do, its one of those necessary evils which come part and parcel of Software development and its amazingly awesome that as a community we (collectively Users and Creators) have been able to avoid using them, instead using an informal "Please don't steal my stuff just ask if you want to use it" unfortunately as this moves forward, we are almost certainly going to see the term "licensing" as things formalise up between paid and Free mods and what can and cannot be used. I suspect Bethesda will keep quiet and ride out the storm of malcontent until things dye down, then they'll come out with some PR speak about 'We are Bethesda value your input on the recent opportunities for monetization of mods, and we are listening to your feed back and moving forward together with the community'

As for why now? that I couldn't tell you., I would kind of get it if they did this for Fallout 4 or TES-6 whenever that comes out because your dealing with a blank slate. but injecting this into an already vibrant and established ecosystem? is like introducing an invasive plant species. Everyone is scrambling - I really have Sympathy for Robin/Dark0ne right now, Guy had to cancel a holiday to deal with the fallout (no pun intended) from this, between Mod authors taking their mods down to migrate to the workshop, other mod authors scrambling to take their mods down because they are afraid someone will take their work and put IT on the workshop for money as their own (DMCA's are no easy thing), and users trying to download as many mods as they can in panic in case their favourite mods go Pay-Wall. its got to be just a little bit insane, investing all that time and money in the infrastructure upgrade was forward thinking. just not in the way he would have liked I guess.

I do find Valves/Bethesda TOC's morally questionable, in particular how its al-edged Chesko was told by a Valve employee that it was okay to use someone else's free content and include that and charge of it and not have to ask any permission what so-ever, that is not Chesko fault. However I find the concept of Early Access Mods Morally dubious - Early access it and of itself is tittering on the brink, paying for Early Access mods is so far down the slippery slope that I doubt you could even see the top any more.

I think they did it before the realease of the new games so all this stuff thats happening now will have (in their hopeful opinion) died down by then.

[nekollx]

Beth is getting free money for doing absolutely nothing!!

except, you know, creating the game, and tools, you are using, as well as all the base assets, your mod RELIES ON TO FUNCTION

[AnelaidLives]

Any modder who supports paid mods should be blacklisted.