Steam and Bethesda remove paid modding from Skyrim Workshop

[Laereal]

In response to post #24736644. #24737469, #24739084, #24739339, #24739754, #24740069, #24740154, #24740309, #24740314, #24740394, #24740474, #24740484, #24740639 are all replies on the same post.

UberSmaug wrote:

Anduniel wrote: I quite agree with your "craft fair" analogy. Well said, all :)

I have no problem at all with modders wishing to make a little money on their art. People don't HAVE to buy it, it's still totally your choice. What I definitely DON'T like is that the modder would only get 25% (or less) of the price. The modder who does the work should get AT LEAST 50%, maybe 60%. But distribution doesn't work like that, unless the artist/modder does it all themself.

There are a great many mods I think are amazing and which I would have paid a few bucks for. And just to be clear I am NOT against free modding in any way. If not for that I would never have become a modder, OR gotten into voice acting. May free modding live on!

Arthmoor wrote: A very good analogy. I like it. It's exactly what this stood to become. I'd even wager the first Craft Fair had its share of problems but instead of scrapping the idea the involved parties worked out the kinks and made it better for everyone.

That's what should have happened here, but instead a whole lot of people just used it as an opportunity to rage and throw a fit. Over what? A few dollars?

With all the truly stupid things people pay for on Steam, one wouldn't have expected mods to be one of those things they WON'T pay for. Yes, guilty as charged, I've bought some of those dumb trading cards and other virtual bling before. What Valve did today makes me wish I had every last penny of it back now.

Someone on another part of this thread also asked if it means some of us will be withdrawing from Nexus. I have to be honest. I'm deeply considering it. I didn't get a whole lot of personal flak for my decisions, but that's just it, they were MY decisions and I feel like the community betrayed my right to make such a decision. That includes many of my fellow authors, whom I expected better of.

I feel as though Valve betrayed me and the other participants most of all by first telling us to stick with it and ride out the BS and then turning around hours later and pulling the plug WITHOUT TELLING US. Whatever your feelings on the matter of paid mods, really, that kind of thing should tell you a lot about the character of the company. I was willing to give them a chance, and this is how they repaid it.

Anyway, there it is. What's done is done, and now everyone has new decisions to make.

Azulyn wrote: to be fair, you were only getting a measly share of the cut, provided you sold enough copies of the mod...
THAT kind of thing should tell you a lot about the character of the company

rekkhan wrote: People working in the studio love game. But the companies, they don't, they love your money.
And I have to remind you that selling an independent product is ok, but you cannot cut a part from a system and sell it. I believe that you and many many people on nexus had spent a lot of time to make more than 50 mods work together and not f**k your game up. I totally agree that a modder should be reward for his/her work, but selling a mod without any assurance that it will work well with your (modded) game is wrong.
Beth did a good work when they release Skyrim, but not good enough to charge people more. Skyrim is incomplete, I wonder if any of us could play Skyrim again excitedly with no mod installed. So my opinion is no to paid mod, especially when our money fall into the company account while they have nothing to do with the mods.
(sorry for my bad English)

Arthmoor wrote: There are details most people against this fail to consider, but there's not much point in mentioning them now. Suffice it to say that I have talked to enough people who do freelance art work recently who were downright jealous that we were going to get a 25% cut. While I was appalled that a lot of people who publish creative works, even ORIGINAL creative works that are not derived from others, are getting as little as 5% of the proceeds.

Once this was made clear, I was more willing to accept it. It's not often you get the chance to get paid for making derivative works of someone else's IP. Especially when they've removed all of the potential legal hurdles from your path ahead of time. No idea what that cost them, but it couldn't have been cheap.

What I'm not the least bit happy about is the abrupt decision to cave in to angry mobs. Especially when we were not told it was coming, and still haven't been officially told. We had to find out the same way you did. From a surprise blog post by Valve. So yeah, I'm pretty pissed off at Valve right now.

digitaltrucker wrote: ...sort of like how the whole thing was sprung on the community as a whole without warning or prior discussion?

Yup, sux don't it?

Azza123 wrote: This is the internet. HUGE difference.

cornbreadtm wrote: Arthmoor, Just because other artists get 5%, doesn't make it right that modders got 25%.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

Don't justify it by bring up a negative aspect of the commission/freelance based artist world. Cause it just proves our point.

rekkhan wrote: @digitaltrucker: If you don't pay to test, where will your warnings and discussions come from? Who's going to pay those tester who paid to test and help the mod better?

jfisha wrote: Arthmoor,

I think dismissing ALL of us as just cheap mod users who don't want to pay anything for mods is a little bit patronizing. Over the last few days, I've donated way to much money for my own good. I, for one, was mostly worried that this would drive a lot of good modders away from the Nexus, a site that I really care a lot about.

If you made a million dollars, I could care less. That's being completely honest. There a lot of us, (yes, A LOT) who never said a word edge wise against you or anyone else that left. You can do whatever the hell you want, I don't care, but this wasn't just about free mods for users.

digitaltrucker wrote: ...huh?

rekkhan wrote: I'm sorry, I thought you replied my comment.

I don't begrudge you of your hopes that this would have all sorted itself in the end, but there has been some glossing over a pretty important fact: the Skyrim modding community has enjoyed free mods for over three years. Thinking that people won't be threatened by the the introduction of paid mods is rather naive in itself. Outside dynamics like what people ought paid for freelance commissions wouldn't really work because this situation is unique to this very established Skyrim modding community, where money wasn't even a factor unless you were trying to crowdfund a project or something. Call me cynical, but I don't even think that what people perceive as your paltry cut in mod earnings is something that bothers people, at least some of them. But it is one of the few things that most people can rally against on top of the other potential havok in introducing paid modding can do this community. Once people think their favourite modders have tried selling mods and liked the experience of it, there will be fear all of your subsequent and BEST work will be out of reach when it wasn't the case before.

Anyways, that's my take on it. This has been my first post about the paid mod situation since it started, so it might seem a little green around the edges.

[MurdermiesteR]

And I said they would never walk away from the money. I'm so happy to be wrong.

[Brasscatcher]

In response to post #24741069.

digitaltrucker wrote:

...Nope. I agree with you. Weapons are safed. :D

[Deathtoheaven731]

Passion, community, open-source, and altruism triumph over greed. What a lovely story.

 

I thank Dark0ne for his steadfast reasonable neutrality, if I ultimately disagreed with him, the modding community for standing up against the Great Workshop Paywall of 2015, and GabeN for being open to the voices of the community that made him so successful and revered. It was good to see you among the people in Reddit (I am not a user but appreciate that site nonetheless) answering our concerns, which were so many.

 

Valve and Bethesda... you done goofed. You two have been lights in the darkness of our current era of gaming and to see you take the path of the Paid DLCs broke my heart. Nonetheless, you have chosen to repent, and for that you have my thanks. Many companies would not do such a thing. I and many others will be watching your next choices closely, but I do believe that this was not an act of malice... rather an act of stupidity.

 

And to the modders who turned to the Paywall... you done goofed even more. Corporations are known to make short sighted decisions when they see a dollar as a matter of course and for them to take the long path is what earns them admiration. Individual humans, however, have a far greater bandwidth of ethics. Reading Chesko's story outraged me, because it was clear that all of you took a horrible deal. It is one thing to see monetary gain at the expense of an open source community that gave you praise and admiration for the joy you had coded, but it is another to do so for SO DIRT CHEAP. At least Occulus let itself be bought out despite ethical obligations to its Kickstarters at BILLIONS. You took a messily 25% cut, and a good portion of it from resources you didn't own. You set the worst precedent possible.

 

But yet, I also believe this too was an act of stupidity. In most cases. Some of you later on openly spited the community and joined after the fact.

 

No, you don't owe us the mods you create. Your creations are of your own free will, and you can add and remove them as you will. What you do owe us is basic respect, and by no means is that following the majority will. What that entails is considering what will hurt the community that has built you up... and not do it!!!

 

But yes, you have my forgiveness and I hope that of the others here as well in time.

 

Let us all come together to restitch this beautiful open source community of joy.

[Vesuvius1745]

In response to post #24738304. #24738404, #24738464, #24738479, #24738524, #24738604, #24738659, #24738679, #24738694, #24738739, #24738779, #24738799, #24738804, #24738919, #24738944, #24738974, #24739104, #24739184, #24739199, #24739204, #24739289, #24739329, #24739359, #24739394, #24739409, #24739474, #24739514, #24739544, #24739564, #24739609, #24739619, #24739639, #24739689, #24739759, #24739784, #24739884, #24739949, #24739999, #24740019, #24740029, #24740039, #24740124, #24740139, #24740174, #24740184, #24740199, #24740234, #24740349, #24740469, #24740494, #24740509, #24740569, #24740579, #24740584, #24740694, #24740734, #24740789, #24740809, #24740814, #24740834, #24740844, #24740859, #24740899, #24740939, #24740959, #24741039, #24741074, #24741079, #24741154, #24741159, #24741164 are all replies on the same post.

foster xbl wrote:

phantompally76 wrote: It will cull the greedy from the passionate, and you know what? That's just fine with me.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Modding has always been a labor of love--not a way to put a Porsche in the garage. If a modder is really skilled, and wants to get paid for his or her work, then they should get a job at a game company.

Korodic wrote: You can be passionate & compensated... why can't it be both?

Maybe I don't want a job at a game company. Maybe I'm content doing what I like... modding.

foster xbl wrote: because...... I guess

OiramX5 wrote: I dont think compensated is a word valid to a almost slavery job. 25 % is just ridiculous.

Korodic wrote: To be honest I've never felt more betrayed by the community. Reading all of these comments... people who shouted "MODS SHOULD BE FREE" to the point where I lost an *option* as a mod creator in what I can and can't do with my work - MY TIME.

The entitlement users have was literally so obvious I could vomit. It's really disappointing.

foster xbl wrote: where as 0% is more than fair?

sunshinenbrick wrote: I just donated to someone, I felt I wanted to. They have a mod I have not yet played (looks good though) but I was never asked to do it.

Korodic wrote: I 100% agree the price split was not fair, but that could have been worked on.

The arguement to remove paid mods wasn't the price split so much as it was people crying "but the spirit of modding" or "it's always been free why change now" as if the sky was falling and all mods would cost $.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Should writers of fan fiction be able to sell their work? Modding is in that same copyright-limbo state where the company looks the other way as long as people aren't trying to make a profit off of their intellectual property. Bethesda made the game and the tool you use to make the mods, and without the game those mods would be useless. Just because you enjoy doing something doesn't necessary mean you have a right to get paid for it. The enjoyment of creating mods is what motivates most people, and if you REALLY want to make a profit off of your "work", then the modding scene is not for you.

foster xbl wrote: "You can be passionate & compensated... why can't it be both?

Maybe I don't want a job at a game company. Maybe I'm content doing what I like... modding"

I could not agree more, I feel the exact same way, before I've even had time to decide weather or not I wanted to proceed with developing a paid mod, the decision was made for me.

digitaltrucker wrote: You haven't "lost an option". You have the same options you always had before now. What you've gained is an awareness of a problem that may now be addressed in a thoughtful, reasoned manner.

Korodic wrote: sunshinenbrick, it's nice that you donated to someone. Me personally, I've only ever received 1 donation despite 1000+ endorsements.

By no means did I get into modding for the $, but I am just proving the point that donations systems earnings don't equal the time you put in. I have 2,000 hours logged on the creation kit. The option to host paid mods could have really made a difference to someone like me. By no means would every mod cost $ either, but the larger ones could.

We could have tried to renegotiate the price split, but now the system is gone forever.

foster xbl wrote: "Should writers of fan fiction be able to sell their work"

This is a laughable point, the owners of said ip in this case were ok with the idea.
And furthermore, IMO if other 3rd parties are allowed to freely profit directly from their writings, then yes they should

Korodic wrote: How did mod authors not lose an option? Before we had a paid system, now we have none. That is definitely an option out the window.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think part of the problem has been the lack of prominence of the Donate button. This has had to be done on purpose I gather as this is the legal grey area Nexus has been dancing for a while now.

Before this all happened of course :P

EDIT: This is why we should perhaps try view this as paying for modding, not necessarily for mods...

rickerhk wrote: "Modding has always been a labor of love"
@Vesuvius1745
You and others keep repeating that. But it doesn't look like you have any mods posted here. Why would you think that 'labor of love' would mean you never want to make money from it?

phantompally76 wrote: Your sense of entitlement is 1000x more alarming than that of mod users who don't feel obligated to pay for mods.

No matter how hard you work on a mod, no matter how many thousands of hours you put into it, no matter how strongly you feel about its monetization.......

I don't owe you anything.

And you don't owe me anything.

That's the author/user relationship we have enjoyed until people like you got greedy.

Korodic wrote: Except there was no legal grey area now, we were given full permission, but the way people reacted destroyed any chance of that. Exactly in the way OP stated. You may be okay with a donate button, but that's you.

I wanted the paid option should I feel something I created deserved it.

I feel like people just shoved their beliefs down my throats and I lost rights as a mod author in the process. >.>

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Korodic

But you are a fully fledged modder I gather and I commend you for it.

The problem with the particular model that was tested on us over weekend was that it made modding very expensive for new modders who maybe using completely new sdk and game engines.

foster xbl wrote: That's actually probably not the case....
let's be honest, who will pay money for something free?
Granted there are exceptions, but in truth they are exceptions.

Before this happened, my mods totaling 15,565 endorsments, have received one donation.
Think about this, out of the hundreds of thousands of downloads, 15,000 cared enough to show a sign of thanks, of those 15,000.... 1 person felt it was worth showing more.
Donations are great, and in fact far more valuable ( to me ) than a paid price, (because it wasn't required) but overall a donation system will not be widely used.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: For those of you who thought you could get rich off of peddling your amateur mods on Valve, I have bad news for you: you would have never seen a cent. Your "payment" would have been in store credit. Even the most popular mods on the Nexus, minutes after being put on Valve, were on various torrent sites. The bottom line is people won't pay for mods in significant enough numbers to make it worthwhile.

You'll have better luck putting mods on the Nexus along with the donation button. If you get enough downloads, and people like your mod, you'll make much more than any store credit on valve (You get about 95% of the donation compared to 25% of the price on valve paid in store credit).

Personally, I think if your motivation is to make money, your mods probably will be rather shitty. The best mods are those done by people whose ONLY motivation is the joy of doing it. If you insist on getting paid, then again, you should do something else as the modding scene is not /that/.

flyingtiger16 wrote: @Korodic

IN your file list it only shows one mod, which mods exactly have thousands of people up-voted? I'm not trying to attack you here merely curious as to your modding experience...I for one have none and I appreciate the work of the community.

Korodic wrote: I've hidden all of my mods for the time being. I won't be coming back to the nexus for a long time (if ever) or until I feel otherwise. Too many people (who have never even made a single mod) feel entitled to the mods that we mod authors make.

It's ridiculous. I don't owe any of you anything, especially when all of the stuff I've provided up until this point is completely free. We should be supported & celebrated. Instead we were called greedy and told to "go get a real job."

People should have fought to get us a better price split instead of fighting the idea of paid mods themselves.

Whatever, guess I will go invest my time elsewhere. Any work I make from now on will be private.

Bye I guess.

-nlm (-.-) mln-

foster xbl wrote: "Your sense of entitlement is 1000x more alarming than that of mod users who don't feel obligated to pay for mods."

And no-one ever had to pay. It was a choice, do you have to buy every DLC for every game?

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Oh, and to the guy who made the backhanded insult about me not having any mods up--I haven't modded for Skyrim, but I have modded for years on Morrowind and other games. But none of that matters because even non-modders are allowed to have an opinion on this for obvious reasons.

sovs wrote: Why can't we have a optionable subscription based model on Nexus added to the premium services ?

Then you can truly see who has donated and not, the majority will never donate a dime as it stands now.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Isn't this about a sense of morality, which is what a community brings? Did people not see how quickly mods were ripped off and then flooded into piratebay? How has this been minimised in the past? By people looking out for each other and respecting each others work. I know it may not be a perfect system, and this weekend has shown there are things we can learn from, but it is probably one of the most creative and respectful gaming communities in the world.

foster xbl wrote: It doesn't matter how many mods he has made, the point is his point of view should've mattered.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Korodic, you're a hypocrite, and I'll explain why: I will wager dollars to donuts you have used other people's FREE mods. You probably also dissected those mods to teach yourself how to mod, and you've also probably "borrowed" code or other resources from other people's work. That is the nature of open source. And now you want to take your marbles and go home because you can't peddle stuff on Valve that you only could have created by standing on the shoulders of others. Well don't let the door hit your ass on the way out (and you might also want to delete every free mod you are using as well).

rickerhk wrote: @phantompally76
So you are saying my sense of entitlement is 1000x more alarming than yours?
I have thousands of hours making mods.
@phantompally76, Vesuvius1745
Never mind. I don't know why I'm wasting my time on trolls. Carry on.

flyingtiger16 wrote: As a person who has admittedly been more excited to try out the mod rather then support the author post download, I feel I owe the modding community an apology. A fair question though, If a financially challenged individual enjoys the hard work and labors of love that go into making his gaming experience that much more rich (to the point where bethesda games are only purchased because of the great modding community). Should he be excluded from that community because tat person cannot afford to pay 2.99 for the over 150+ mods they have on an average load list?

flyingtiger16 wrote: @ foster

Your one hundred percent correct, I was over zealous and jumped the gun a bit there. unfortunately everyone who weighs in on this matter declares themselves a modder.

@ Korodic

apologies

phantompally76 wrote: Here's another thought.

If you want to get more donations for your mods, perhaps you need to step up your game and actually make mods that are worth donating for.

I appreciate your talent. But I'm not paying for an apple retexture, or an unsupported mod full of bugs, or a mod that's still in development, or a mod that overreaches the parameters of the game engine and corrupts saves with bloat.

And I'm certainly not paying for mods from self-entitled whiners who somehow think I owe them a living. I owe you nothing. And you know what? I don't have to use your mods even if they're free, either.

so get. off. your. high. horse.

foster xbl wrote: Nock to Tip
True Bound armors
Knocked up
Fat Bastards
Fully animated meals and potions
Baby Mommas

None of these are apple retextures, and if they're not worth your time
feel free to skip, but you should not be allowed to tell others it's not worth theres

WarfighterShaun wrote: You could argue it is equally as greedy for people wanting these mods always for free. In fact it is not even equal. The big mods like Isoku's, Chesko's and the like still had their current versions on the nexus for free which were awesome mods, now just because they then released new "paid" versions in which they hoped to get some investment from it. Maybe they thought it would allow them to mod for a living, allowing them to make bigger better mods in the future. Truth of the matter is they have already given a lot to the community and thus they are way less greedy than the lot of you who are accusing them of being so and outright saying you will not support the monetization of quality mods.

Simply put if people do not want to pay for mods that is fine, do not get the paid versions, however then trying to make the authors look bad just because their new version is not free is downright stupid and even more greedy.

Phantompally you are right in that with free mods, modders don't owe you anything however I would say users owe the modder appreciation for even the fact they chose to share it even if you don't like it.

That is my take on it, hate me if you will.

Smith099 wrote: The modders getting "profits" from their work on the Steam Workshop were never going to be able to make a real living off of this.

From everything I heard on various sites about the pay system it worked as follows:
Modder sets price for mod.
Valve gets 30% of money from each sale. (Minus 1%-5% that go to "Service Providers." )
ZeniMaxMedia/BethSoft gets remaining 70% and cuts modder 25% of that.
Modder sees money only after their cut reaches $100.

A part time job at the local burger joint is going to pay more in a week than any modder was going to see from any of those mods in two months.

This was NOT a way to help modders make a profit, this was a way to help Valve and BethSoft make a profit. And THAT is the problem.

Smith099 wrote: @rickerhk
And maybe you should check sites like Oblivion Nexus and Morrowind Nexus, not just Skyrim Nexus.

foster xbl wrote: @WarfighterShaun
exactly, these guys gave big time, and were ripped to pieces by the very community they gave so much to

jet4571 wrote: So I get shafted when parts of the 300 or so models in my building kit resource gets put up in a house mod on Steam and I see no money from the sale. Is that fair? Or I sell the kit and they make a hundred houses in separate mods and make bank off each one while I made enough to buy a beer. Is that fair? Just so you can make indentured servant wages even though it is plain and simply a bad deal for the whole community. Yeah I guess calling Valve and Bethesda out on their bull is a mistake if you do not care about everyone else.

foster xbl wrote: @jet4571
I can see your point as a resource author, but tell me this, didn't you make said resources
for others to use?

jfisha wrote: Korodic,

Holy hell, man. Did the nails hurt when you were hanging on the cross?

Paid mod scene is not going away. I have a feeling it's only been delayed until the next Bethesda game comes out. No one is telling you you have to give your mods away for free. You can: 1. Not make any mods or 2. Host them on your own web page and charge for them.

I don't like the idea of paid mods, but I could care less if any modders went to steam. I planned on showing my disapproval basically only by not buying mods on steam.

Calm down, man, for the love of God

phantompally76 wrote: "Nock to Tip
True Bound armors
Knocked up
Fat Bastards
Fully animated meals and potions
Baby Mommas

None of these are apple retextures, and if they're not worth your time
feel free to skip, but you should not be allowed to tell others it's not worth theres"

I never said they weren't worth my time, or anyone else's.

But they're absolutely NOT worth my money.

I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings. I fully realize you think you're a unique snowflake and that you deserve recognition. But you're confusing recognition with monetary compensation. You have recognition. That's all you're getting from me.

And if that isn't good enough for you....to quote Benjamin Franklin......"Tough".

Vesuvius1745 wrote: @War Chesko and the others created those mods without expecting to get paid for them. Same with Foster. If the money thing is such a problem, why did they create those mods and offer them on the Nexus if they knew they wouldn't get paid for them? People have been creating great mods for years without any monetary incentive.

But you know what? Modders DO get paid. They get paid in the form of all the other mods in the modding community. These modders have enjoyed mods others have put up for free, and in many cases were inspired by them to mod themselves, or to dissect those mods to learn, and even "borrow" code or resources from other people's work. And this is all fine. Sharing is what happens when you have an "open source" community.

But frankly, modders now whining about how they aren't getting paid reeks of greed and selfishness--especially since they themselves have benefited as much as everyone else from the body of work that has been introduced into the community for free.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'll keep saying it, as long as this is the part you all want to cling to. Modding: "Entitled", " deserves", "work" none of these terms apply. Nobody here is entitled to diddly. That goes for content creators as well as just users. Nobody deserves anything, except to have a place in the community where they can play without being abused. This isn't "work" because nobody hired you. You want a paycheck? Get a job. You want modeling/voice acting/scripting/whatever to be your job? Take your portfolio and shop it to devs. license an engine and make a game. Is modding too much effort or occupying too much time that it's cutting in to your lifestyle? STOP. That's unhealthy. If you go, we'll miss you, but we'll survive. There will be more creators, more users coming up behind you who could use the sunshine made in your absence to potentially flourish. If they too outgrow the modding scene, they'll be missed too, and so on.

Entitlement is such a childish, disgusting concept. No wonder it was easy for bethsoft and valve to fleece you people! Yeesh!

OiramX5 wrote: Kodoric and Foster Xbl

I understand your point of view, but I really dont agree in slavery labor for Bethesda and Valve. You and other modders just will turn in developers of DLC's of low costs to them, dont you see that?

You have spent hundreds of hours modding, but answer me this, you was waiting money for that? Or just having fun making mods?

A lot of modders do AWESOME mods and should receive some money of that, I agree, but paid mods system is never gonna work (For a lot of reasons), we just see that this last days, we lost much (Modders and mods, like yours, and was really good mods).

I think is for the best this, will spare much trouble and headache for everyone, and I really dont wanna risk another "Horse Armor" incident.

uglykidcid wrote: Foster I agree with you. If you listen to both Chesko and Isoku there is a barrier between modding as a hobby and modding at the next level. Time is money and one can only put so much time into any project without losing money. Many modders are already at the point of quitting because they have gone as far as they will go for a hobbie. The community's premature overreaction has pushed many good modders away. As you say it's a wake up call. I spend a good 40 hours a week modding and have been modding for a decade but I share very little because to be honest the aggravation of support is not worth my time.

foster xbl wrote: No mod i released was ever created with money in mind, period this is true.
which is also why I stated my mods would remain free here, and on steam too.
However I was considering the possibility of adding new mods to the workshop which were intended as pay mods from the get go. Once the option was available, how is it not my right to purse it if choose?

BlueCorvid wrote: "Modding has always been a labor of love--not a way to put a Porsche in the garage."

You think modders are after a PORSCHE? You know what people are after when they start asking people to pay for work they've done? Yeah, sometimes they want help making a big purchase -- a new tablet or a new PC, maybe a new game they really want but aren't really comfortable spending the money on -- but usually they just want to buy a burger, or a beer, or put a tank of gas in their car, or feed their cat.

Furthermore: I keep seeing things like, "If modders charge money for their mods, then players with no money won't be able to use those mods!" Do you think players are the only ones with no money? I don't know where you live, but it's gotten pretty tough around here the last few years. If you can't afford things, I get that. Man, I GET it. I've got pennies in my checking account. I get it. Here's the thing though: we are not entitled to free stuff, and content creators ARE entitled to ASK FOR compensation for their work.

There will always, ALWAYS, be wonderful people who make free stuff for the good of the community -- people with the means and passion to say, "No, it's fine, I don't need anything back." These acts are noble and charitable, and as a person who can't afford to buy content, I appreciate it with everything I have.

While I wasn't particularly happy with the way Bethesda et al sprang this on the community and the way it was implemented, I think the reactions of community members speak rather more volumes more about THEIR greed than that of either Bethesda or modders. In this world we live in, where money is quite literally life, you cannot with good conscience say that people don't deserve to be compensated for their time or their intellectual property.

There is this weird misconception going on that it's "modder who does it for the love of the game and would never take compensation just on principle" versus "modder who doesn't love anything but really wants to get rich and is holding his modding skills hostage." The truth is really more like "modder who loves the game" versus "modder who also loves the game, but needs gas money." For that matter, Bethesda itself is not some giant faceless behemoth just devouring cash like a woodchipper -- it has workers and game developers that all need to be paid -- again, mostly just people who just want to be able to buy a burger or a beer, or put a tank of gas in their car, or feed their cat.

I am a person of little means, to be honest. I don't want to pay for mods. I can't afford to pay for mods. But I am also a content creator -- not a modder, obviously, but an artist -- and the little money I have in my bank account is due entirely to people who were willing to pay me for my services. That money feeds my cat, it bought my mother a birthday gift, sometimes it buys me a burger.

When people refuse to pay content creators, content creators who can't afford to work for free either stop creating content or starve.

Should CREATING or CONSUMING content be the luxury? Those are the only options.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @OiramX5

This is so true, for many of us who are seriously into our hobbies this is about the future of modding (with Bethesda games at least) and the dicey area of their developers free loading their work on to the modding community, For a fraction of the cost. Then when people complain things don't work they have a scapegoat.

I want as much of the money I pay for a mod to go to the person/s who created it.

foster xbl wrote: "I never said they weren't worth my time, or anyone else's.

But they're absolutely NOT worth my money."

this says it all.

WarfighterShaun wrote: Foster it is completely your right. It does not make you look any less noble or whatever unless of course it happened to be buggy and you refused to support it but I am pretty sure you would not do that :P.

foster xbl wrote: Edit: double post-sorry

fftfan wrote: @jfisha
"Paid mod scene is not going away. I have a feeling it's only been delayed until the next Bethesda game comes out. No one is telling you you have to give your mods away for free. You can: 1. Not make any mods or 2. Host them on your own web page and charge for them.

I don't like the idea of paid mods, but I could care less if any modders went to steam. I planned on showing my disapproval basically only by not buying mods on steam.

Calm down, man, for the love of God"

I hope not, though I think it's a good sign they were so fast to remove the system. And that they even refunded everybody who bought mods from it. Bethesda/Valve could easily have just waited a number of months before considering removing the Paid option and/or not refunded anyone.

IF they do actually bring it back for TES VI/FO4, I simply won't be buying the game. I oppose micro-transactions on principle. I'm a huge fan of Elder Scrolls & Fallout but I was and still am willing to say goodbye to both if the Paid Workshop returns.

Shadow_Dragyn wrote: Yeah, I'm certainly done releasing mods. This is ridiculous.
I don't know if I'll even remove the ones I already have out or not... Over the course of a single week, the community I once loved became something I despise more than anything.

OiramX5 wrote: Foster

Well, from where I standing, you removed your content of nexus (Steam I really dont like much) so is contradictory what you are saying about keep them here.

I agree, you have the right of want that (You really want that 25% dont ya?), and I also have the right of disagree with that kind business, we are democratic creatures (Or least try most of time) and if the major part of community (even modders) dont agree with that so be it, is the will of majority.

I recognize your work (Really like your mods, sad you remove they), agree about some modders should receive for the AWESOME work, but unfortunately the system of paid mods never gonna work. Is better that way.

Thaiauxn wrote: @phantompally76, Vesuvius1745
RickerHK has put more of his life hours into making my mod than anyone else. We're talking YEARS; and he offered his help out out of the blue one day with no strings attached. I tried to pay him once. He told me to keep my money, and did it anyway, and at a quality that can't be beat. Do you know what it takes to make a sacrifice like that? What kind of dedication it shows? Dude has put his free time and health on the line for us since 2012. I've never met him, but I'd die for that guy.

RickerHK is irreplaceable to me. I can't say the same for you. You have a right to post on these forum. I have the right to make you think twice about coming back.

Don't cross my people.

phantompally76 wrote: Yes, it does. It may have sailed WAY over your head, but it does.

Bottom line, you're blocked, and I'll never download, test, endorse, or even SEE any of your mods ever again.

We done?

foster xbl wrote: "Yeah, I'm certainly done releasing mods. This is ridiculous.
I don't know if I'll even remove the ones I already have out or not... Over the course of a single week, the community I once loved became something I despise more than anything. "


I do wonder how may other authors, myself included have removed, (or in my case hidden their mods, until they make a final decision) because of this backlash

Korodic wrote: jfisha haha, I hope it can one day come back. Hopefully better explained, fair %, and in a more planned way. I'm not dying over here. I'm currently in the process of a new and improved arena mod. I'm just debating whether or not I feel like sharing. You can't tell me you don't see it (the sense of entitlement) in these comment threads?

On Facebook people were far less civil and far worse.

Vesuvius1745 - Thank you for pointing out what a hypocrite I am (without any evidence to your claim).

Vesuvius1745 wrote: "When people refuse to pay content creators, content creators who can't afford to work for free either stop creating content or starve."

Modders have been modding for over a decade without getting paid a single cent. There are some wonderful, professional mods that have been given to the community for free (Wyrmstooth, Perkus etc.) I used to mod for Morrowind. Modders do it as a hobby, in our free time, like painting, or planting award-winning roses, or *insert hobby here*. If what you said was correct, this site would never have existed.

But it does. Modders will come and go for whatever reasons, but there will always be new modders to take their places, and there will always be people who have used and enjoyed mods from the community who are willing to give something back to that same community in the form of their own creations. That is the nature of this. I made some decent mods back in the day, but I don't think of it as giving my stuff away for free--I have downloaded and enjoyed mods other people have uploaded. This is the thing some people just can't comprehend about an "open source" community like the modding scene.

MoonSpot wrote: After reading bethesda's blog and seeing the numbers that they posted, I'm feeling like an even bigger pile of poo than I did before.
I hope that they try again on much better footing. They said that they're flexible with their share based on the numbers and community. So I'm more inclined to think of this a step one, rather than square one.
If the cuts and prices can get to a point that this worldwide and diverse community can shoulder while remaining inclusive, then I'm all for it. Like the idea, did not at all care for how it was done...thus far, on the steam workshop.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: @Korodic I thought it was clear, but let me spell it out for you:

By whining about not being able to sell your mods when you have used the free mods of other people for years (and probably used the work of others in one way or another for your own mods), makes you a hypocrite.

foster xbl wrote: @OiramX5

My mods have not been removed, they were hidden until I think on the matter some more.

Ventry wrote: @foster xbl

Doesn't what happened give you a clear indication of what the public are willing/not willing to accept in regards to modding?

If you are modding for the money then you have made an error in judgement.

Modding was humming along just swimmingly until money was introduced.
Now look where we are.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Oh, and Korodic, if you you donate $1.99 to every author of every mod you are using in your Skyrim game right now, I will apologize for calling you a hypocrite.

foster xbl wrote: "@Korodic I thought it was clear, but let me spell it out for you:

By whining about not being able to sell your mods when you have used the free mods of other people for years (and probably used the work of others in one way or another for your own mods), makes you a hypocrite."


Another foolish point of view..... by this reasoning anyone who writes a book and sells it is a hypocrite for "standing on the shoulders' of the person to taught them to read, right?

Korodic wrote: @OiramX5 I don't agree with the current system and would not have used it in its current state. I only wanted it to be adjusted. But that's only half of the problem.

The other half is the people trying to deny us an option OFFICIALLY given to us because they feel modding should be free (regardless of what anyone else may think). This ideology is even present within this thread.

jet4571 wrote: @foster xbl
For free non paid mods. I did not make them so somebody could make a profit. If I made them so someone could make a profit they would be on TurboSquid with the rest of my models I am selling.

I made them so people can make houses that are not the exact same as any other farmhouse and furnish them with a complete set of furniture. To give away for free so players can have a new and unique home.

Another reason they are here and not at TurboSquid is so I can get some pleasure seeing them used and how they are used.

foster xbl wrote: "Doesn't what happened give you a clear indication of what the public are willing/not willing to accept in regards to modding?"

the same things were said from day one (and still are) of DLC, and like it
or not, Dlc has been fully accepted and become the new norm.

Foster "My mods have been removed"

It is your right to take your marbles and run home, but if you would like to prove this isn't just a temper tantrum, and you want to stand by your convictions, then you should delete every free mod you have, and every resource you have benefited from which was provided to the community for free (such as SKSE, ENB etc.).

[Arthmoor]

In response to post #24736644. #24737469, #24739084, #24739339, #24739754, #24740069, #24740154, #24740309, #24740314, #24740394, #24740474, #24740484, #24740639, #24741189 are all replies on the same post.

UberSmaug wrote:

Anduniel wrote: I quite agree with your "craft fair" analogy. Well said, all :)

I have no problem at all with modders wishing to make a little money on their art. People don't HAVE to buy it, it's still totally your choice. What I definitely DON'T like is that the modder would only get 25% (or less) of the price. The modder who does the work should get AT LEAST 50%, maybe 60%. But distribution doesn't work like that, unless the artist/modder does it all themself.

There are a great many mods I think are amazing and which I would have paid a few bucks for. And just to be clear I am NOT against free modding in any way. If not for that I would never have become a modder, OR gotten into voice acting. May free modding live on!

Arthmoor wrote: A very good analogy. I like it. It's exactly what this stood to become. I'd even wager the first Craft Fair had its share of problems but instead of scrapping the idea the involved parties worked out the kinks and made it better for everyone.

That's what should have happened here, but instead a whole lot of people just used it as an opportunity to rage and throw a fit. Over what? A few dollars?

With all the truly stupid things people pay for on Steam, one wouldn't have expected mods to be one of those things they WON'T pay for. Yes, guilty as charged, I've bought some of those dumb trading cards and other virtual bling before. What Valve did today makes me wish I had every last penny of it back now.

Someone on another part of this thread also asked if it means some of us will be withdrawing from Nexus. I have to be honest. I'm deeply considering it. I didn't get a whole lot of personal flak for my decisions, but that's just it, they were MY decisions and I feel like the community betrayed my right to make such a decision. That includes many of my fellow authors, whom I expected better of.

I feel as though Valve betrayed me and the other participants most of all by first telling us to stick with it and ride out the BS and then turning around hours later and pulling the plug WITHOUT TELLING US. Whatever your feelings on the matter of paid mods, really, that kind of thing should tell you a lot about the character of the company. I was willing to give them a chance, and this is how they repaid it.

Anyway, there it is. What's done is done, and now everyone has new decisions to make.

Azulyn wrote: to be fair, you were only getting a measly share of the cut, provided you sold enough copies of the mod...
THAT kind of thing should tell you a lot about the character of the company

rekkhan wrote: People working in the studio love game. But the companies, they don't, they love your money.
And I have to remind you that selling an independent product is ok, but you cannot cut a part from a system and sell it. I believe that you and many many people on nexus had spent a lot of time to make more than 50 mods work together and not f**k your game up. I totally agree that a modder should be reward for his/her work, but selling a mod without any assurance that it will work well with your (modded) game is wrong.
Beth did a good work when they release Skyrim, but not good enough to charge people more. Skyrim is incomplete, I wonder if any of us could play Skyrim again excitedly with no mod installed. So my opinion is no to paid mod, especially when our money fall into the company account while they have nothing to do with the mods.
(sorry for my bad English)

Arthmoor wrote: There are details most people against this fail to consider, but there's not much point in mentioning them now. Suffice it to say that I have talked to enough people who do freelance art work recently who were downright jealous that we were going to get a 25% cut. While I was appalled that a lot of people who publish creative works, even ORIGINAL creative works that are not derived from others, are getting as little as 5% of the proceeds.

Once this was made clear, I was more willing to accept it. It's not often you get the chance to get paid for making derivative works of someone else's IP. Especially when they've removed all of the potential legal hurdles from your path ahead of time. No idea what that cost them, but it couldn't have been cheap.

What I'm not the least bit happy about is the abrupt decision to cave in to angry mobs. Especially when we were not told it was coming, and still haven't been officially told. We had to find out the same way you did. From a surprise blog post by Valve. So yeah, I'm pretty pissed off at Valve right now.

digitaltrucker wrote: ...sort of like how the whole thing was sprung on the community as a whole without warning or prior discussion?

Yup, sux don't it?

Azza123 wrote: This is the internet. HUGE difference.

cornbreadtm wrote: Arthmoor, Just because other artists get 5%, doesn't make it right that modders got 25%.

2 wrongs don't make a right.

Don't justify it by bring up a negative aspect of the commission/freelance based artist world. Cause it just proves our point.

rekkhan wrote: @digitaltrucker: If you don't pay to test, where will your warnings and discussions come from? Who's going to pay those tester who paid to test and help the mod better?

jfisha wrote: Arthmoor,

I think dismissing ALL of us as just cheap mod users who don't want to pay anything for mods is a little bit patronizing. Over the last few days, I've donated way to much money for my own good. I, for one, was mostly worried that this would drive a lot of good modders away from the Nexus, a site that I really care a lot about.

If you made a million dollars, I could care less. That's being completely honest. There a lot of us, (yes, A LOT) who never said a word edge wise against you or anyone else that left. You can do whatever the hell you want, I don't care, but this wasn't just about free mods for users.

digitaltrucker wrote: ...huh?

rekkhan wrote: I'm sorry, I thought you replied my comment.

Laereal wrote: I don't begrudge you of your hopes that this would have all sorted itself in the end, but there has been some glossing over a pretty important fact: the Skyrim modding community has enjoyed free mods for over three years. Thinking that people won't be threatened by the the introduction of paid mods is rather naive in itself. Outside dynamics like what people ought paid for freelance commissions wouldn't really work because this situation is unique to this very established Skyrim modding community, where money wasn't even a factor unless you were trying to crowdfund a project or something. Call me cynical, but I don't even think that what people perceive as your paltry cut in mod earnings is something that bothers people, at least some of them. But it is one of the few things that most people can rally against on top of the other potential havok in introducing paid modding can do this community. Once people think their favourite modders have tried selling mods and liked the experience of it, there will be fear all of your subsequent and BEST work will be out of reach when it wasn't the case before.

Anyways, that's my take on it. This has been my first post about the paid mod situation since it started, so it might seem a little green around the edges.

That's just it. I don't consider it a case of two wrongs making anything.

The fact is, 25% is considered quite generous by a large community of folks who are making a living doing what they love. THEY still have that choice, even if it's only 5%. We don't.

Also, I didn't say EVERYONE was being a trollish pig about this. I think it should be kind of obvious that when someone says "trolls ruined this" they're talking about the ones who actually spoke up and were being trolls. We all know who they are. I'd even bet that most of them weren't even involved in the Skyrim community at all and just showed up to make trouble. I think we all know who THEY are too.

If it makes me a giant asshole for being mad that I no longer have the option due to people who had no business telling me I couldn't, then so be it.

[Brasscatcher]

In response to post #24740829.

maybenexttime wrote:

Must feel pretty powerful, thinking you have a corporation backing you up. Sucks that their loyalties were poorly chosen. I'd rather be here having a laugh than trying to squeeze pennies out of you all any day.

[ZeroSaber39]

In response to post #24732344. #24732604, #24732704, #24732709, #24732774, #24732869, #24732879, #24733044, #24733464, #24733739, #24733824, #24733844, #24734224, #24734679, #24734879, #24734924, #24735019, #24735179, #24735629, #24736304, #24736494, #24736934, #24737124, #24737349, #24737389, #24737689, #24737719, #24738774, #24739954, #24740119, #24740274, #24740514, #24740549 are all replies on the same post.

CelticPaladin wrote:

calfurius wrote: I know quite a few modders became disgusted with the way some members of the modding community treated them. I'm mostly concerned if Chesko is coming back or not, he didn't deserve anywhere near the level of hate that he got.

phantompally76 wrote: I hope that's not the case.

I do, however, hope that in future they think twice about arrogantly condescending mod users looking for assistance with their mods in comments sections, like they have in the past. I'd stopped using some of their mods before this crap ever started because of that.

Riprock wrote: Hopefully time will make him realize that words on the internet are just words. We put way too much stock in typed messages.

CelticPaladin wrote: The number of vitriol and death threats were insane. I couldn't blame them for leaving this community behind. It'd be depressing, but there you go.

meredithmiles wrote: What I don't understand is why Arthmoor, Chesko and Isoku don't already have job offers in hand. Seriously, they are all three hardworking, dedicated and skilled. If I ran a game company I'd have snatched them up ages ago.

This is a great time to donate to them, I think.

jfisha wrote: Each team only lost a handful of endorsements. Yes, there was some angry vitriol, but most people respectfully disagreed with what they did. No more, no less.

BarnabasCollins wrote: I don't even see why people were targeting the modders anyway. For me this was never even about the modders, but the future of modding itself. The modders are innocent.

oblivion104 wrote: I stayed away from the melodrama and only sign the petition,but what happened to chesko??

Also, what happened to the paid mods? Did they take it down?

phantompally76 wrote: heh, apt user name there.

Wait, there are mods for Skyrim??????

Noortje wrote: They would never have updated skyui if it wasn't for the pay offer. I doubt they will finish skyui 5.0 and release it now, but it's not like it was ever going to be free in the first place.

Saije wrote: f*#@ that... We weren't black hearted. They were when they gave us a big green middle finger.

SNSDLOVER wrote: Honestly if they love modding and love sharing their mods to us, I doubt theyll leave. Modding could be their hobby or passion so Im certain this wont make them go away.

redrat07 wrote: there were d-threats to people who left to go to the paid system ?

phantompally76 wrote: @redrat, not in the quantities that people here want you to believe.

There was certainly some of it.....there always is. But the vast majority of butthurt mod authors and white knights are including irate mod users who posted "uninstalled and unendorsed, shame on you" along with any amount of criticism in that category. And THOSE comments grossly outnumbered any sort of threats, and were perfectly fair and justified.

BluemaxDR wrote: Oh, they won't stop developing mods. Just stop posting.

Arendella wrote: Chesko I don't have a problem with.

Isoku and SkyUi? definitely will never use their mods again *Will just use old version of SkyUi*. Was just a big slap in the face when he was all giddy about putting his mods up on Steam Workshop just pissing everyone off even more.

jfisha wrote: Thumbs up, Phantompally.

There are some mod authors that are going pull an Anita Sarkeesian and chastise our entire community because of a very small amount of very angry comments, but if you go back and look at comments, you'll notice most of them are people just saying they're disappointed and unendorsing.

Azulyn wrote: jfisha + phantompally76
Amen.
Most of the comments I saw were reasonable criticisms and/or remarks of disappointment, not frothing rage and threats of death and venngeeeaanncceee as all these white knights would have you believe.

tem1980 wrote: Unfortunately, that's the nature of the internet. 90% outrage and ass-holism, 5% controlled nonsense, 5% rational measured thought.

Its actually a pretty decent mirror of the real population, except real people only say the s#*! they do on the internet in RL when they dont think they can be identified or held accountable. Or you know, what the internet allows.

Everyone should try and tune out all the rage and insane s#*!.

jfisha wrote: I'll actually disagree with that, tem. I just think the very angry among us happen to also be the most inclined to write a comment.

WarfighterShaun wrote: May I ask what Isoku did? I have heard of Arthmoor kind of taking the piss out of some people.

sovs wrote: Chesko I don't have a problem with.

Isoku and SkyUi? definitely will never use their mods again *Will just use old version of SkyUi*. Was just a big slap in the face when he was all giddy about putting his mods up on Steam Workshop just pissing everyone off even more.

Same here, Midas Magic was by far one of the most popular mods in Oblivion, i have a hard time believing that he only received enough donations to barely cover fraps as he said.

rickerhk wrote: They made a quite normal assumption that they could get some compensation from their hours and hours of hard work. But the self-entitled toxic Skyrim 'Community' would have nothing of it.

tem1980 wrote: @ jfisha

I just meant the quality of the expression of the anger, not that the 90% were the only ones angry.

phantompally76 wrote: I'm gonna be perfectly honest here, I don't use Arthmoor's mods, and it has nothing to do with this scam.

I just don't like the way he treats mod users asking for help. Even if it's a stupid question that's covered a thousand times in the description or FAQ, a mod author isn't entitled to insult and abuse the people who are doing him a favor by testing and playing with his mods.

Now he's certainly not the only mod author like that. There are a lot of top-100 mods on here I won't use on principle because their authors are total jerks, and again, that has nothing to do with the past 5 days. Their propensity to belittle, condescend and arrogantly patronize mod users over the years is 1000x times worse than the chastisement mod authors have received in the past week.

The point here is that abuse works both ways, and many high-profile mod authors have gotten away with it for far too long, standing on top of their pedestals of superiority. Well, hopefully one of the positives that comes out of this mess is that perhaps mod authors will have a little more appreciation for the mod users who made them famous, and recognize the fact that those same mod users can make them infamous just as easily.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: The community got upset. Some things were said that shouldn't have been, but for the most part I believe the outrage was justified. Some of the modders did get to show their true colors, and some of those colors weren't so great. If they decide they don't want to come back to the Nexus, well good luck to them, and we thank them for what they have done before all of this.

Modding is a labor of love. People do it because they enjoy it. Some people do it as a stepping stone to acquire the skills to get a job at a game company. But the bottom line is if you want to get paid for your "work", the modding scene is not the best place for you. Sharpen up your skills and try and get a job at a game company. Most of us have given thousands of dollars to Bethesda over the years. With Skyrim they really dropped the ball--they released an unfinished and buggy game that actually required the modding community to fix it. Trying to squeeze more pennies out of us Elder Scroll fans was a bad idea. If anything, Bethesda should be the ones paying the modders for finishing their game for them.

elrofrost wrote: I hope they don't. Most of us "users" didn't participate in the "debate". It would be a shame if this silliness ended Skyrim modding. I understand feelings were hurt. And people (on both sides) feel betrayed.

But frankly, if Beth and Value had handled this correctly I doubt there would've been so much drama. Some hate, sure- I mean, after all, this is the internet.

But the way Chesko was handled was shocking and downright wrong.

westsidekidd wrote: @phantompally76
Very well said. I too have noticed this behavior by mod authors more than one time and I thought that they should be ashamed of themselves. Who are they, to treat people like that? They are making mods, they are no gods!

sunshinenbrick wrote: @phantompally76

This is an important point that is seldom made.

fftfan wrote: @phantompally76
"Very well said. I too have noticed this behavior by mod authors more than one time and I thought that they should be ashamed of themselves. Who are they, to treat people like that? They are making mods, they are no gods!"

Other than cases of a user trolling a mod's comment section, I've always been saddened by the sight of a mod author being abusive to a new user's honest questions. Both by the vitriol of the abusive comment and by the probable result being that the new user who might otherwise have greatly enjoyed the creations of the community(and maybe inspired to mod themselves) may instead quit modding the game, leaving Nexus forever.

Farvahar wrote: Why wouldn't they seize the moment of the "all is forgiven" and make a glorious return?

phantompally76 wrote: It's actually made all the time, but the authors do a fairly thorough job of purging it from their comment sections, and from their minds.

I had issues with the latest version of Run For Your Lives, and rather than try to get help troubleshooting it, I simply removed it. I knew better than to try. I knew I would be reprimanded for not reading 100 pages of comments to figure it out myself. There's no way in Hell I'd pay for a mod when I have strong reservations from even asking for support from the author, whom I have to bite my lip every single time I read his vitriol against his own playtesters.

And I'm reasonably sure I'm not the only one.

@phantompally76:

Totally agree, personally never had any issue with Arthmoor personally (though I have found that his "run for your lives" mod simply does not work for me) But I did have an issue with another "high profile" modder, well I say high profile but really the guy has only made 1 mod that is really popular and sits on a high horse acting like his mod is infallible.

I found a issue with with his mod where some npcs added were invisible and even found the ID's of the invisible npcs and provided them for him to take a look at and he refused to even respond to my posts. (he certainly had no issue responding to other peoples posts but mine, he couldn't be bothered)

And I ended up being stuck trading messages with some guy who essentially made it his life mission to sit in said mod authors mod thread and suck the guy's virtual dick, in fact when I first went to the mod thread to report the issue there was another guy who had reported the same issue and was getting abused being told that the issue is that he didn't know how to mod his game properly or that he had overloaded his load order and broke something or that his PC wasn't powerful enough.

Interesting that when I came to the guys defense with evidence that this wasn't an isolated incident and that something was broken in the mod they decided to clam up and ignore me. (Well at least I got them leave the guy who reported the issue before me alone.) Edited April 28, 2015 by ZeroSaber39

[jfisha]

In response to post #24738304. #24738404, #24738464, #24738479, #24738524, #24738604, #24738659, #24738679, #24738694, #24738739, #24738779, #24738799, #24738804, #24738919, #24738944, #24738974, #24739104, #24739184, #24739199, #24739204, #24739289, #24739329, #24739359, #24739394, #24739409, #24739474, #24739514, #24739544, #24739564, #24739609, #24739619, #24739639, #24739689, #24739759, #24739784, #24739884, #24739949, #24739999, #24740019, #24740029, #24740039, #24740124, #24740139, #24740174, #24740184, #24740199, #24740234, #24740349, #24740469, #24740494, #24740509, #24740569, #24740579, #24740584, #24740694, #24740734, #24740789, #24740809, #24740814, #24740834, #24740844, #24740859, #24740899, #24740939, #24740959, #24741039, #24741074, #24741079, #24741154, #24741159, #24741164, #24741289 are all replies on the same post.

foster xbl wrote:

phantompally76 wrote: It will cull the greedy from the passionate, and you know what? That's just fine with me.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Modding has always been a labor of love--not a way to put a Porsche in the garage. If a modder is really skilled, and wants to get paid for his or her work, then they should get a job at a game company.

Korodic wrote: You can be passionate & compensated... why can't it be both?

Maybe I don't want a job at a game company. Maybe I'm content doing what I like... modding.

foster xbl wrote: because...... I guess

OiramX5 wrote: I dont think compensated is a word valid to a almost slavery job. 25 % is just ridiculous.

Korodic wrote: To be honest I've never felt more betrayed by the community. Reading all of these comments... people who shouted "MODS SHOULD BE FREE" to the point where I lost an *option* as a mod creator in what I can and can't do with my work - MY TIME.

The entitlement users have was literally so obvious I could vomit. It's really disappointing.

foster xbl wrote: where as 0% is more than fair?

sunshinenbrick wrote: I just donated to someone, I felt I wanted to. They have a mod I have not yet played (looks good though) but I was never asked to do it.

Korodic wrote: I 100% agree the price split was not fair, but that could have been worked on.

The arguement to remove paid mods wasn't the price split so much as it was people crying "but the spirit of modding" or "it's always been free why change now" as if the sky was falling and all mods would cost $.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Should writers of fan fiction be able to sell their work? Modding is in that same copyright-limbo state where the company looks the other way as long as people aren't trying to make a profit off of their intellectual property. Bethesda made the game and the tool you use to make the mods, and without the game those mods would be useless. Just because you enjoy doing something doesn't necessary mean you have a right to get paid for it. The enjoyment of creating mods is what motivates most people, and if you REALLY want to make a profit off of your "work", then the modding scene is not for you.

foster xbl wrote: "You can be passionate & compensated... why can't it be both?

Maybe I don't want a job at a game company. Maybe I'm content doing what I like... modding"

I could not agree more, I feel the exact same way, before I've even had time to decide weather or not I wanted to proceed with developing a paid mod, the decision was made for me.

digitaltrucker wrote: You haven't "lost an option". You have the same options you always had before now. What you've gained is an awareness of a problem that may now be addressed in a thoughtful, reasoned manner.

Korodic wrote: sunshinenbrick, it's nice that you donated to someone. Me personally, I've only ever received 1 donation despite 1000+ endorsements.

By no means did I get into modding for the $, but I am just proving the point that donations systems earnings don't equal the time you put in. I have 2,000 hours logged on the creation kit. The option to host paid mods could have really made a difference to someone like me. By no means would every mod cost $ either, but the larger ones could.

We could have tried to renegotiate the price split, but now the system is gone forever.

foster xbl wrote: "Should writers of fan fiction be able to sell their work"

This is a laughable point, the owners of said ip in this case were ok with the idea.
And furthermore, IMO if other 3rd parties are allowed to freely profit directly from their writings, then yes they should

Korodic wrote: How did mod authors not lose an option? Before we had a paid system, now we have none. That is definitely an option out the window.

sunshinenbrick wrote: I think part of the problem has been the lack of prominence of the Donate button. This has had to be done on purpose I gather as this is the legal grey area Nexus has been dancing for a while now.

Before this all happened of course :P

EDIT: This is why we should perhaps try view this as paying for modding, not necessarily for mods...

rickerhk wrote: "Modding has always been a labor of love"
@Vesuvius1745
You and others keep repeating that. But it doesn't look like you have any mods posted here. Why would you think that 'labor of love' would mean you never want to make money from it?

phantompally76 wrote: Your sense of entitlement is 1000x more alarming than that of mod users who don't feel obligated to pay for mods.

No matter how hard you work on a mod, no matter how many thousands of hours you put into it, no matter how strongly you feel about its monetization.......

I don't owe you anything.

And you don't owe me anything.

That's the author/user relationship we have enjoyed until people like you got greedy.

Korodic wrote: Except there was no legal grey area now, we were given full permission, but the way people reacted destroyed any chance of that. Exactly in the way OP stated. You may be okay with a donate button, but that's you.

I wanted the paid option should I feel something I created deserved it.

I feel like people just shoved their beliefs down my throats and I lost rights as a mod author in the process. >.>

sunshinenbrick wrote: @Korodic

But you are a fully fledged modder I gather and I commend you for it.

The problem with the particular model that was tested on us over weekend was that it made modding very expensive for new modders who maybe using completely new sdk and game engines.

foster xbl wrote: That's actually probably not the case....
let's be honest, who will pay money for something free?
Granted there are exceptions, but in truth they are exceptions.

Before this happened, my mods totaling 15,565 endorsments, have received one donation.
Think about this, out of the hundreds of thousands of downloads, 15,000 cared enough to show a sign of thanks, of those 15,000.... 1 person felt it was worth showing more.
Donations are great, and in fact far more valuable ( to me ) than a paid price, (because it wasn't required) but overall a donation system will not be widely used.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: For those of you who thought you could get rich off of peddling your amateur mods on Valve, I have bad news for you: you would have never seen a cent. Your "payment" would have been in store credit. Even the most popular mods on the Nexus, minutes after being put on Valve, were on various torrent sites. The bottom line is people won't pay for mods in significant enough numbers to make it worthwhile.

You'll have better luck putting mods on the Nexus along with the donation button. If you get enough downloads, and people like your mod, you'll make much more than any store credit on valve (You get about 95% of the donation compared to 25% of the price on valve paid in store credit).

Personally, I think if your motivation is to make money, your mods probably will be rather shitty. The best mods are those done by people whose ONLY motivation is the joy of doing it. If you insist on getting paid, then again, you should do something else as the modding scene is not /that/.

flyingtiger16 wrote: @Korodic

IN your file list it only shows one mod, which mods exactly have thousands of people up-voted? I'm not trying to attack you here merely curious as to your modding experience...I for one have none and I appreciate the work of the community.

Korodic wrote: I've hidden all of my mods for the time being. I won't be coming back to the nexus for a long time (if ever) or until I feel otherwise. Too many people (who have never even made a single mod) feel entitled to the mods that we mod authors make.

It's ridiculous. I don't owe any of you anything, especially when all of the stuff I've provided up until this point is completely free. We should be supported & celebrated. Instead we were called greedy and told to "go get a real job."

People should have fought to get us a better price split instead of fighting the idea of paid mods themselves.

Whatever, guess I will go invest my time elsewhere. Any work I make from now on will be private.

Bye I guess.

-nlm (-.-) mln-

foster xbl wrote: "Your sense of entitlement is 1000x more alarming than that of mod users who don't feel obligated to pay for mods."

And no-one ever had to pay. It was a choice, do you have to buy every DLC for every game?

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Oh, and to the guy who made the backhanded insult about me not having any mods up--I haven't modded for Skyrim, but I have modded for years on Morrowind and other games. But none of that matters because even non-modders are allowed to have an opinion on this for obvious reasons.

sovs wrote: Why can't we have a optionable subscription based model on Nexus added to the premium services ?

Then you can truly see who has donated and not, the majority will never donate a dime as it stands now.

sunshinenbrick wrote: Isn't this about a sense of morality, which is what a community brings? Did people not see how quickly mods were ripped off and then flooded into piratebay? How has this been minimised in the past? By people looking out for each other and respecting each others work. I know it may not be a perfect system, and this weekend has shown there are things we can learn from, but it is probably one of the most creative and respectful gaming communities in the world.

foster xbl wrote: It doesn't matter how many mods he has made, the point is his point of view should've mattered.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Korodic, you're a hypocrite, and I'll explain why: I will wager dollars to donuts you have used other people's FREE mods. You probably also dissected those mods to teach yourself how to mod, and you've also probably "borrowed" code or other resources from other people's work. That is the nature of open source. And now you want to take your marbles and go home because you can't peddle stuff on Valve that you only could have created by standing on the shoulders of others. Well don't let the door hit your ass on the way out (and you might also want to delete every free mod you are using as well).

rickerhk wrote: @phantompally76
So you are saying my sense of entitlement is 1000x more alarming than yours?
I have thousands of hours making mods.
@phantompally76, Vesuvius1745
Never mind. I don't know why I'm wasting my time on trolls. Carry on.

flyingtiger16 wrote: As a person who has admittedly been more excited to try out the mod rather then support the author post download, I feel I owe the modding community an apology. A fair question though, If a financially challenged individual enjoys the hard work and labors of love that go into making his gaming experience that much more rich (to the point where bethesda games are only purchased because of the great modding community). Should he be excluded from that community because tat person cannot afford to pay 2.99 for the over 150+ mods they have on an average load list?

flyingtiger16 wrote: @ foster

Your one hundred percent correct, I was over zealous and jumped the gun a bit there. unfortunately everyone who weighs in on this matter declares themselves a modder.

@ Korodic

apologies

phantompally76 wrote: Here's another thought.

If you want to get more donations for your mods, perhaps you need to step up your game and actually make mods that are worth donating for.

I appreciate your talent. But I'm not paying for an apple retexture, or an unsupported mod full of bugs, or a mod that's still in development, or a mod that overreaches the parameters of the game engine and corrupts saves with bloat.

And I'm certainly not paying for mods from self-entitled whiners who somehow think I owe them a living. I owe you nothing. And you know what? I don't have to use your mods even if they're free, either.

so get. off. your. high. horse.

foster xbl wrote: Nock to Tip
True Bound armors
Knocked up
Fat Bastards
Fully animated meals and potions
Baby Mommas

None of these are apple retextures, and if they're not worth your time
feel free to skip, but you should not be allowed to tell others it's not worth theres

WarfighterShaun wrote: You could argue it is equally as greedy for people wanting these mods always for free. In fact it is not even equal. The big mods like Isoku's, Chesko's and the like still had their current versions on the nexus for free which were awesome mods, now just because they then released new "paid" versions in which they hoped to get some investment from it. Maybe they thought it would allow them to mod for a living, allowing them to make bigger better mods in the future. Truth of the matter is they have already given a lot to the community and thus they are way less greedy than the lot of you who are accusing them of being so and outright saying you will not support the monetization of quality mods.

Simply put if people do not want to pay for mods that is fine, do not get the paid versions, however then trying to make the authors look bad just because their new version is not free is downright stupid and even more greedy.

Phantompally you are right in that with free mods, modders don't owe you anything however I would say users owe the modder appreciation for even the fact they chose to share it even if you don't like it.

That is my take on it, hate me if you will.

Smith099 wrote: The modders getting "profits" from their work on the Steam Workshop were never going to be able to make a real living off of this.

From everything I heard on various sites about the pay system it worked as follows:
Modder sets price for mod.
Valve gets 30% of money from each sale. (Minus 1%-5% that go to "Service Providers." )
ZeniMaxMedia/BethSoft gets remaining 70% and cuts modder 25% of that.
Modder sees money only after their cut reaches $100.

A part time job at the local burger joint is going to pay more in a week than any modder was going to see from any of those mods in two months.

This was NOT a way to help modders make a profit, this was a way to help Valve and BethSoft make a profit. And THAT is the problem.

Smith099 wrote: @rickerhk
And maybe you should check sites like Oblivion Nexus and Morrowind Nexus, not just Skyrim Nexus.

foster xbl wrote: @WarfighterShaun
exactly, these guys gave big time, and were ripped to pieces by the very community they gave so much to

jet4571 wrote: So I get shafted when parts of the 300 or so models in my building kit resource gets put up in a house mod on Steam and I see no money from the sale. Is that fair? Or I sell the kit and they make a hundred houses in separate mods and make bank off each one while I made enough to buy a beer. Is that fair? Just so you can make indentured servant wages even though it is plain and simply a bad deal for the whole community. Yeah I guess calling Valve and Bethesda out on their bull is a mistake if you do not care about everyone else.

foster xbl wrote: @jet4571
I can see your point as a resource author, but tell me this, didn't you make said resources
for others to use?

jfisha wrote: Korodic,

Holy hell, man. Did the nails hurt when you were hanging on the cross?

Paid mod scene is not going away. I have a feeling it's only been delayed until the next Bethesda game comes out. No one is telling you you have to give your mods away for free. You can: 1. Not make any mods or 2. Host them on your own web page and charge for them.

I don't like the idea of paid mods, but I could care less if any modders went to steam. I planned on showing my disapproval basically only by not buying mods on steam.

Calm down, man, for the love of God

phantompally76 wrote: "Nock to Tip
True Bound armors
Knocked up
Fat Bastards
Fully animated meals and potions
Baby Mommas

None of these are apple retextures, and if they're not worth your time
feel free to skip, but you should not be allowed to tell others it's not worth theres"

I never said they weren't worth my time, or anyone else's.

But they're absolutely NOT worth my money.

I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings. I fully realize you think you're a unique snowflake and that you deserve recognition. But you're confusing recognition with monetary compensation. You have recognition. That's all you're getting from me.

And if that isn't good enough for you....to quote Benjamin Franklin......"Tough".

Vesuvius1745 wrote: @War Chesko and the others created those mods without expecting to get paid for them. Same with Foster. If the money thing is such a problem, why did they create those mods and offer them on the Nexus if they knew they wouldn't get paid for them? People have been creating great mods for years without any monetary incentive.

But you know what? Modders DO get paid. They get paid in the form of all the other mods in the modding community. These modders have enjoyed mods others have put up for free, and in many cases were inspired by them to mod themselves, or to dissect those mods to learn, and even "borrow" code or resources from other people's work. And this is all fine. Sharing is what happens when you have an "open source" community.

But frankly, modders now whining about how they aren't getting paid reeks of greed and selfishness--especially since they themselves have benefited as much as everyone else from the body of work that has been introduced into the community for free.

Brasscatcher wrote: I'll keep saying it, as long as this is the part you all want to cling to. Modding: "Entitled", " deserves", "work" none of these terms apply. Nobody here is entitled to diddly. That goes for content creators as well as just users. Nobody deserves anything, except to have a place in the community where they can play without being abused. This isn't "work" because nobody hired you. You want a paycheck? Get a job. You want modeling/voice acting/scripting/whatever to be your job? Take your portfolio and shop it to devs. license an engine and make a game. Is modding too much effort or occupying too much time that it's cutting in to your lifestyle? STOP. That's unhealthy. If you go, we'll miss you, but we'll survive. There will be more creators, more users coming up behind you who could use the sunshine made in your absence to potentially flourish. If they too outgrow the modding scene, they'll be missed too, and so on.

Entitlement is such a childish, disgusting concept. No wonder it was easy for bethsoft and valve to fleece you people! Yeesh!

OiramX5 wrote: Kodoric and Foster Xbl

I understand your point of view, but I really dont agree in slavery labor for Bethesda and Valve. You and other modders just will turn in developers of DLC's of low costs to them, dont you see that?

You have spent hundreds of hours modding, but answer me this, you was waiting money for that? Or just having fun making mods?

A lot of modders do AWESOME mods and should receive some money of that, I agree, but paid mods system is never gonna work (For a lot of reasons), we just see that this last days, we lost much (Modders and mods, like yours, and was really good mods).

I think is for the best this, will spare much trouble and headache for everyone, and I really dont wanna risk another "Horse Armor" incident.

uglykidcid wrote: Foster I agree with you. If you listen to both Chesko and Isoku there is a barrier between modding as a hobby and modding at the next level. Time is money and one can only put so much time into any project without losing money. Many modders are already at the point of quitting because they have gone as far as they will go for a hobbie. The community's premature overreaction has pushed many good modders away. As you say it's a wake up call. I spend a good 40 hours a week modding and have been modding for a decade but I share very little because to be honest the aggravation of support is not worth my time.

foster xbl wrote: No mod i released was ever created with money in mind, period this is true.
which is also why I stated my mods would remain free here, and on steam too.
However I was considering the possibility of adding new mods to the workshop which were intended as pay mods from the get go. Once the option was available, how is it not my right to purse it if choose?

BlueCorvid wrote: "Modding has always been a labor of love--not a way to put a Porsche in the garage."

You think modders are after a PORSCHE? You know what people are after when they start asking people to pay for work they've done? Yeah, sometimes they want help making a big purchase -- a new tablet or a new PC, maybe a new game they really want but aren't really comfortable spending the money on -- but usually they just want to buy a burger, or a beer, or put a tank of gas in their car, or feed their cat.

Furthermore: I keep seeing things like, "If modders charge money for their mods, then players with no money won't be able to use those mods!" Do you think players are the only ones with no money? I don't know where you live, but it's gotten pretty tough around here the last few years. If you can't afford things, I get that. Man, I GET it. I've got pennies in my checking account. I get it. Here's the thing though: we are not entitled to free stuff, and content creators ARE entitled to ASK FOR compensation for their work.

There will always, ALWAYS, be wonderful people who make free stuff for the good of the community -- people with the means and passion to say, "No, it's fine, I don't need anything back." These acts are noble and charitable, and as a person who can't afford to buy content, I appreciate it with everything I have.

While I wasn't particularly happy with the way Bethesda et al sprang this on the community and the way it was implemented, I think the reactions of community members speak rather more volumes more about THEIR greed than that of either Bethesda or modders. In this world we live in, where money is quite literally life, you cannot with good conscience say that people don't deserve to be compensated for their time or their intellectual property.

There is this weird misconception going on that it's "modder who does it for the love of the game and would never take compensation just on principle" versus "modder who doesn't love anything but really wants to get rich and is holding his modding skills hostage." The truth is really more like "modder who loves the game" versus "modder who also loves the game, but needs gas money." For that matter, Bethesda itself is not some giant faceless behemoth just devouring cash like a woodchipper -- it has workers and game developers that all need to be paid -- again, mostly just people who just want to be able to buy a burger or a beer, or put a tank of gas in their car, or feed their cat.

I am a person of little means, to be honest. I don't want to pay for mods. I can't afford to pay for mods. But I am also a content creator -- not a modder, obviously, but an artist -- and the little money I have in my bank account is due entirely to people who were willing to pay me for my services. That money feeds my cat, it bought my mother a birthday gift, sometimes it buys me a burger.

When people refuse to pay content creators, content creators who can't afford to work for free either stop creating content or starve.

Should CREATING or CONSUMING content be the luxury? Those are the only options.

sunshinenbrick wrote: @OiramX5

This is so true, for many of us who are seriously into our hobbies this is about the future of modding (with Bethesda games at least) and the dicey area of their developers free loading their work on to the modding community, For a fraction of the cost. Then when people complain things don't work they have a scapegoat.

I want as much of the money I pay for a mod to go to the person/s who created it.

foster xbl wrote: "I never said they weren't worth my time, or anyone else's.

But they're absolutely NOT worth my money."

this says it all.

WarfighterShaun wrote: Foster it is completely your right. It does not make you look any less noble or whatever unless of course it happened to be buggy and you refused to support it but I am pretty sure you would not do that :P.

foster xbl wrote: Edit: double post-sorry

fftfan wrote: @jfisha
"Paid mod scene is not going away. I have a feeling it's only been delayed until the next Bethesda game comes out. No one is telling you you have to give your mods away for free. You can: 1. Not make any mods or 2. Host them on your own web page and charge for them.

I don't like the idea of paid mods, but I could care less if any modders went to steam. I planned on showing my disapproval basically only by not buying mods on steam.

Calm down, man, for the love of God"

I hope not, though I think it's a good sign they were so fast to remove the system. And that they even refunded everybody who bought mods from it. Bethesda/Valve could easily have just waited a number of months before considering removing the Paid option and/or not refunded anyone.

IF they do actually bring it back for TES VI/FO4, I simply won't be buying the game. I oppose micro-transactions on principle. I'm a huge fan of Elder Scrolls & Fallout but I was and still am willing to say goodbye to both if the Paid Workshop returns.

Shadow_Dragyn wrote: Yeah, I'm certainly done releasing mods. This is ridiculous.
I don't know if I'll even remove the ones I already have out or not... Over the course of a single week, the community I once loved became something I despise more than anything.

OiramX5 wrote: Foster

Well, from where I standing, you removed your content of nexus (Steam I really dont like much) so is contradictory what you are saying about keep them here.

I agree, you have the right of want that (You really want that 25% dont ya?), and I also have the right of disagree with that kind business, we are democratic creatures (Or least try most of time) and if the major part of community (even modders) dont agree with that so be it, is the will of majority.

I recognize your work (Really like your mods, sad you remove they), agree about some modders should receive for the AWESOME work, but unfortunately the system of paid mods never gonna work. Is better that way.

Thaiauxn wrote: @phantompally76, Vesuvius1745
RickerHK has put more of his life hours into making my mod than anyone else. We're talking YEARS; and he offered his help out out of the blue one day with no strings attached. I tried to pay him once. He told me to keep my money, and did it anyway, and at a quality that can't be beat. Do you know what it takes to make a sacrifice like that? What kind of dedication it shows? Dude has put his free time and health on the line for us since 2012. I've never met him, but I'd die for that guy.

RickerHK is irreplaceable to me. I can't say the same for you. You have a right to post on these forum. I have the right to make you think twice about coming back.

Don't cross my people.

phantompally76 wrote: Yes, it does. It may have sailed WAY over your head, but it does.

Bottom line, you're blocked, and I'll never download, test, endorse, or even SEE any of your mods ever again.

We done?

foster xbl wrote: "Yeah, I'm certainly done releasing mods. This is ridiculous.
I don't know if I'll even remove the ones I already have out or not... Over the course of a single week, the community I once loved became something I despise more than anything. "


I do wonder how may other authors, myself included have removed, (or in my case hidden their mods, until they make a final decision) because of this backlash

Korodic wrote: jfisha haha, I hope it can one day come back. Hopefully better explained, fair %, and in a more planned way. I'm not dying over here. I'm currently in the process of a new and improved arena mod. I'm just debating whether or not I feel like sharing. You can't tell me you don't see it (the sense of entitlement) in these comment threads?

On Facebook people were far less civil and far worse.

Vesuvius1745 - Thank you for pointing out what a hypocrite I am (without any evidence to your claim).

Vesuvius1745 wrote: "When people refuse to pay content creators, content creators who can't afford to work for free either stop creating content or starve."

Modders have been modding for over a decade without getting paid a single cent. There are some wonderful, professional mods that have been given to the community for free (Wyrmstooth, Perkus etc.) I used to mod for Morrowind. Modders do it as a hobby, in our free time, like painting, or planting award-winning roses, or *insert hobby here*. If what you said was correct, this site would never have existed.

But it does. Modders will come and go for whatever reasons, but there will always be new modders to take their places, and there will always be people who have used and enjoyed mods from the community who are willing to give something back to that same community in the form of their own creations. That is the nature of this. I made some decent mods back in the day, but I don't think of it as giving my stuff away for free--I have downloaded and enjoyed mods other people have uploaded. This is the thing some people just can't comprehend about an "open source" community like the modding scene.

MoonSpot wrote: After reading bethesda's blog and seeing the numbers that they posted, I'm feeling like an even bigger pile of poo than I did before.
I hope that they try again on much better footing. They said that they're flexible with their share based on the numbers and community. So I'm more inclined to think of this a step one, rather than square one.
If the cuts and prices can get to a point that this worldwide and diverse community can shoulder while remaining inclusive, then I'm all for it. Like the idea, did not at all care for how it was done...thus far, on the steam workshop.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: @Korodic I thought it was clear, but let me spell it out for you:

By whining about not being able to sell your mods when you have used the free mods of other people for years (and probably used the work of others in one way or another for your own mods), makes you a hypocrite.

foster xbl wrote: @OiramX5

My mods have not been removed, they were hidden until I think on the matter some more.

Ventry wrote: @foster xbl

Doesn't what happened give you a clear indication of what the public are willing/not willing to accept in regards to modding?

If you are modding for the money then you have made an error in judgement.

Modding was humming along just swimmingly until money was introduced.
Now look where we are.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Oh, and Korodic, if you you donate $1.99 to every author of every mod you are using in your Skyrim game right now, I will apologize for calling you a hypocrite.

foster xbl wrote: "@Korodic I thought it was clear, but let me spell it out for you:

By whining about not being able to sell your mods when you have used the free mods of other people for years (and probably used the work of others in one way or another for your own mods), makes you a hypocrite."


Another foolish point of view..... by this reasoning anyone who writes a book and sells it is a hypocrite for "standing on the shoulders' of the person to taught them to read, right?

Korodic wrote: @OiramX5 I don't agree with the current system and would not have used it in its current state. I only wanted it to be adjusted. But that's only half of the problem.

The other half is the people trying to deny us an option OFFICIALLY given to us because they feel modding should be free (regardless of what anyone else may think). This ideology is even present within this thread.

jet4571 wrote: @foster xbl
For free non paid mods. I did not make them so somebody could make a profit. If I made them so someone could make a profit they would be on TurboSquid with the rest of my models I am selling.

I made them so people can make houses that are not the exact same as any other farmhouse and furnish them with a complete set of furniture. To give away for free so players can have a new and unique home.

Another reason they are here and not at TurboSquid is so I can get some pleasure seeing them used and how they are used.

foster xbl wrote: "Doesn't what happened give you a clear indication of what the public are willing/not willing to accept in regards to modding?"

the same things were said from day one (and still are) of DLC, and like it
or not, Dlc has been fully accepted and become the new norm.

Vesuvius1745 wrote: Foster "My mods have been removed"

It is your right to take your marbles and run home, but if you would like to prove this isn't just a temper tantrum, and you want to stand by your convictions, then you should delete every free mod you have, and every resource you have benefited from which was provided to the community for free (such as SKSE, ENB etc.).

Why are people making this a mod user vs. mod author fight? What about all the mod authors of very popular mods who flat out refuse to take money? Where do these men and women fit into your idea of why paid modding might not be a great idea?

[Deathtoheaven731]

In response to post #24731849.

Riprock wrote:

Big amen!