Left-Wing, Right-wing, or Central?

[HeyYou]

Class Warfare; REALLY? :laugh:

That's exactly what we have. And the rich are most certainly winning.

 

I don't expect anything to change either, as the only folks that can actually change it, are the very same people that benefit the most by NOT changing it.

[WursWaldo]

The wealthy provide jobs and pay the majority of taxes (fact). According to the CBO the top 40% of income earners pay 84.3% of the taxes. According to the Department of Labor the top %1 of the wealthiest Americans create 40% of the jobs. The wealthy are doing their part and then some. Class warfare is simply something the Leftists use to get votes by appealling to angst. It's a smoke screen intended to trick gullible people, and it works.

 

Everything in the Da Vinci Code is true. The Pyramids were built by slaves. Humans are responsible for climate change. Lizard people at the center of the earth control world governments. Rich people are to blame for everything wrong, so if we make them poor it will be better for all of us.

 

(I wish I had bben's tin foil hat smile face for this post.)

[MotoSxorpio]

So, cuz we feel a way, we can just link up a full movie and stuff?

[WursWaldo]

I do not believe anyone here is a member of one of the Bilderberg familes so that means they are not part of the progressive elite. I lived in country that was invaded by Marxists. Westerners who wish for leftist social justice do not understand reality. They are not the elite, they are the ones to be controlled or eliminated.

They do not know what it is to live with out electricity or running water because Leftist rebels destroyed everything. They do not know what it is to be truly hungry and there not be any food anywhere. They do not know what it is to be afraid to go outside. They do not know what it is to sit in their house and be afraid for their lives. They do not know what it is to leave their homes with one suit case and never return. They do not know these things, but they support the Leftist ideals that make these things happen. They are fools and no one argues with or gives consideration to fools.

[JimboUK]

I pretty much agree on all of that except I am still wary that by only letting certain people enter the country (people with money usually) may just exasperate the problem we already have where an ever growing elitist class, that really only see poor people (which is relatively most of us) as slaves to thier bank accounts.

 

I think a fairer system may have be a 'point system' of sorts but one that let a wider demographic emmigrate here while keeping it transparent so we don't just end up with a country run by billionaires and cheap labour. These things need to be rationally and openly discussed more widely because I worry that 'immigration control' could just become a false flag, where the government can say 'hey look we are fixing the issue' but are actually NOT addressing the real problems like you describe, transport, education, energy, pensions, health etc... etc... The real crux of this is however, is that we already have quite a comprehensive immigration policy but it is just used and perverted to the will of those in power.

 

I think there is a real conflict of interests, not only here, but in the 'developed' world generally. Money-driven big business banking seems to have crushed and replaced many of our human values and has all but scraped our souls out from the bottom of the deepest barrel.

 

I only hope it's not all too late! :sad:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVd-zAXACrU

 

The current set up only benefits the wealthy by pushing wages down, the EU's free movement of people is doing exactly that, cheap labour comes from the east and pushes wages down in the west.

[sunshinenbrick]

Left and Right is only a paradigm...

 

Are we not allowed to post links?

 

Are we not allowed to feel a certain way?

 

EDIT: May I also add (if I am allowed that is) to say that not all 'conspiracy theories' are the same, some are complete whack, some turned out not to be. I think it is important to remain open-minded to all sides of the argument. Just because someone may believe something at one time of their life does not mean their point of view will always be the same... Santa Claus is a good example :D

[Ironman5000]

I'm chicken-wing. (sorry I would hate myself if I didn't post this...i'm sad)

 

I wouldn't pigeon-hole myself as left or right, people tend to make assumptions and judgments based on personal circumstance and hold a narrow minded view of people on the 'other side of the fence' not by any fault of their own it's just the way the world works and people can't help but be ignorant to societies and cultures outside of their own. This is commonly reinforced through our media, which is pretty much telling us how we need to act and behave and judge - anyone else notice the flood of reality tv centered on poeple "on the dole" since Cameron came to power? That's no coincidence, and the news also reflects this by shadowing over public protests and demonstrations like it's not even an issue. I don't follow popular media for obvious reasons, but I watch the people who do and their reliance on such matter does indeed make them seem little more than idiotic sheep, they are behaving exactly how they are told to behave.

 

So yeah that makes me sound like a lefty, but thats more of an objective viewpoint based on facts rather than a rant. I dont for a second believe the state owe people a living i'm right behind the thought that people should work for what they get, me and partner have been hard workers all our lives until she fell ill so theres little choice for us. The thing is the system for supporting people has gotten out of control because it's ill-organised, it shouldnt be a series of handouts it should be support in a real sense because throwing a small amount of money at the problem doesn't fix things, in some cases it enables the problem and is taken advantage of to encourage unemployment. So because of this I can see things from the politicians point of view to change the system, however sadly it's been executed poorly and caused a lot of suffering which has caused more hostility and division, primarily between poorer and richer folk or 'the class system' which to illustrate my point causes much talk and debate where people commonly portray themselves as a lefty or a righty based on information fed to them via the media.

 

To conclude I guess i'm central...did I make any sense or did I waffle on like a madman again?

[HeyYou]

Have a read here for what folks are paying taxes, and why.

 

From that article: The vast majority of those not paying taxes, are the very young, and the very old. (working age.) Over their lifetimes though, they pay in more than they get paid out.

 

Yes, the rich folks create the jobs, but, look at what they have been doing to the jobs market. The once-good-paying jobs have been outsourced to their world countries, thanks to free trade agreements. This was supposed to make products less expensive. It didn't. It made them cheap junk. fully 70 percent of the jobs created in the last five years, have been service industry, low-wage, no-skill, part-time jobs, with no benefits. This is due to the free-trade agreements that ONLY benefit those 'job creators'....... Did dodge trucks get cheaper when production was moved to mexico? Nope, the price went UP. Where is the savings we were promised? In the rich folks pockets. That's where.

 

It IS class warfare, the rich are waging it, buying politicians, and winning.

[sunshinenbrick]

Those are some really interesting figures! Taxes at the high end is a bit of a red herring in the main media, and not the only thing to keep an eye on. I'm wondering about the motives behind all this ' lifting the tax threshold' and plans to abolish National Insurance. I am not sure about you but even I was only on minimum wage I would hope to pay only a small amount of tax (0.5 - 1%) and National Insurance if it gaurantees me access to State Pension, National Health Service, free and quality education, a good transport network, free legal aid, and unemployment benefit should I ever get unfortunate to be put out of work.

 

Oh! Look, Mr. Bloggs! You haven't paid enough taxes to us.... Goodbye.

 

I fear 'lowering' people out of tax bands and being able to pay into the system is not something to celebrate. What will happen to these people when they become unemployed, ill or homless? Then there is the age old 'scroungers' witch hunt, which now includes practically half of the population! The state/corporations are actually the biggest sponges in a country, and they don't always give the money back... hmm maybe we should charge interest or withold payements... but wait, we can't!!

[WursWaldo]

Okay, class warfare is a 'reality'. So what should we do to the rich people to make them pay us back for everthing they've stolen? They are the problem they must be punished. How do we do that? And how do we keep them in their home countries once the punishment phase begins? Taxing them out of existence doesn't work; the wealthy fled Greece, France, and South Africa once the redistribution taxing started. Not only did they leave, but their money and the jobs they create left with them. People can cry about class warfare, but all they can do is cry because there isn't a tenable and civilized solution.

 

For this mythical class warfare to be resolved in our favor we do need solutions. I guess we could take their travel visas and passports and freeze all of their assets. Then we could do secret midnight arrests and have closed tribunals to determine guilt or innocence. They are already guilty of being rich so it would be a short trial. After their appointments with Madame Guillotine and we have all of their money; what then? Who are we going blame next for all of our problems? And as for problems, how are we going to convince the average citizen that violating people's rights stealing from other citizens is for the common good?

 

This is the common sense dilema Liberals and Leftists have. There are all of these 'problems' and they don't have any answers other than recycling one another's angst and misguided moral outrage. Emotion as a point of reasoning works on the internet, 24 hour news channels and college campuses; it doesn't work anywhere else.

 

And here I am trying to reason with Socialist/Marxist/Facists/Communists; and mindset of people who willing defy reason. Serious waste of my time.