Regarding Site Listed as Pirate Site and more.

[DoctaSax]

I'm an LL modder and moderator. Not here 'officially' obviously, just pointing out this isn't a throwaway account. I'm quite puzzled by what's going in this thread.

Nexus has a responsibility to provide a reasonable experience for its users, some are underage and others might find such content very objectionable. It is a simple matter of providing appropriate service for its users as the reason for not allowing this site to be linked / mentioned. I am sure those that want to know about this site and its content can easily use a search engine to find it and its mods. There is no need to plaster banners of it across Nexus or for Nexus to even provided for links to competition, what little competition that would be. (being an adult modding porn site :wink:). By all means those individuals that are interested in this content, have at it. but complaining about not being able to link to that site is just petty.

Ask anyone who knows me, I'm not into the territorial nonsense, neither drink or serve Kool Aid. I'm a serious person, and I'm all about the modding, not this song and dance about us being the 'competition'. People don't seem to realize that there are LL modders' fingerprints on Nexus mods, and the other way around.
Sure, the people who keep bringing the issue up tend to be ex bannees and what not, with an axe to grind, and this whole 'yay LL' thing does get on my nerves too. It's hardly 'petty' though to point out this site ban is overkill and hampers people who collaborate across the divide from observing the common courtesies like giving credit and a link back, or be able to expand your options by linking to a resource. I'm not even mentioning the implied judgment. If people are getting tired of seeing this site ban questioned, maybe consider alternatives.

The lack of any sort of age gateway/confirmation is the major problem, not the ads themselves e.g. there are XXX ads on the front page of the site without the user having to login and say "I'm over 18". Yes, it's really easy for kids to access content like this if they want to online, but a bare minimum age gateway of that type goes a long way to show you, as the site admin, have washed your hands of the situation by ensuring you've made it very clear, from the get-go, that the content on the site is for people aged 18 or over and if the user accepts that, they gain entry under that proviso. It also ensures people who've come to the site "innocently", without knowing anything about LL, don't go blind/their heads don't explode/they don't have an aneurysm and whatever else looking at porn does to people.

If you want to talk about those ads or an age gate, I'd like to as well, actually. Maybe hoping we could get to a practical alternative, hoping to cut down on the drama a little.
Frankly, though, perhaps that's better done in pm? After all, some of my counterparts here muddy the water, tacking on fresh reasons and being quite unreasonable:

It only takes a few minutes to search and find ripped (illegal) content on that site.

There is a difference between "easy to find" and "best and most prominent LL has to offer" and I have never said the latter. As a staff member who routinely deals with ripped content and knows where to find ripped meshes/textures and extraction tools on the internet, I can easily spot such mods and check them. And in regard to such content, we have rules that the staff is expected to enforce ("Do not post links to/advertise a third-party site that is unrelated to the mission of Nexus, or is engaged in selling products or offering services of a dubious nature, or hosts or provides access to illegal content" and "...you may not link to sites or files where you can download files that do not adhere to copyright laws. Examples include sites that include files with rips from other games and stolen work from other mod authors without the authors permission. Ignorance is not an excuse. Before you link to a site YOU should ensure that it is safe to link to. A simple search of the site should tell you very quickly whether its acceptable or not."), not to mention a fairly detailed explanation in Dark0ne's post about ported content.

There is ripped content on LL, and for that reason, as the rules dictate, we are obliged to block links to that site.
<snip> Nobody is perfect, and I certainly do not claim perfection. We enforce rules, and when we make a mistake, we do apologize. Dark0ne regularly reviews moderation actions, and ensures that they are well documented.

As we said, the reason why LL is blocked:
a) its pornographic ads;
b) the hosted ripped and other unauthorized content or content that violates UK law;

There are indeed talented people there. They are not shunned here in any way as long as they follow the old adage: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". Nexus has different, more stringent rules, but these rules are in the Terms of Service and moderator action is always based on those rules.

How can you expect of LL that it should not have a single kB of unauthorized copyrighted content when Nexus could never hope to say the same of itself either. Surely this can't be Nexus's official position. It took me less than a minute to find 300 megs of Bob Marley music that's been hosted on Nexus for almost a year. By LadyMilla's reasoning, this is proof of such common, continued, willful criminal negligence on her own part that - rules are rules, your hands are tied - Nexus should go blacklist itself. How could anyone not see or resent the double standard.

Thandal says we wipe our behinds with reports. Well, whether he believes it or not, whether it's hearsay or a grudge over a single case that may've been mishandled, saying it's unofficial policy is irresponsible. Contributing to that image of us contributes to illegal content finding its way to us. And discourages Nexus modders with legit complaints from coming over and seeking redress. I could tell you stories about what that leads to in practice.

[LadyMilla]

I'm an LL modder and moderator. Not here 'officially' obviously, just pointing out this isn't a throwaway account. I'm quite puzzled by what's going in this thread.

 

Nexus has a responsibility to provide a reasonable experience for its users, some are underage and others might find such content very objectionable. It is a simple matter of providing appropriate service for its users as the reason for not allowing this site to be linked / mentioned. I am sure those that want to know about this site and its content can easily use a search engine to find it and its mods. There is no need to plaster banners of it across Nexus or for Nexus to even provided for links to competition, what little competition that would be. (being an adult modding porn site :wink:). By all means those individuals that are interested in this content, have at it. but complaining about not being able to link to that site is just petty.

Ask anyone who knows me, I'm not into the territorial nonsense, neither drink or serve Kool Aid. I'm a serious person, and I'm all about the modding, not this song and dance about us being the 'competition'. People don't seem to realize that there are LL modders' fingerprints on Nexus mods, and the other way around.

Sure, the people who keep bringing the issue up tend to be ex bannees and what not, with an axe to grind, and this whole 'yay LL' thing does get on my nerves too. It's hardly 'petty' though to point out this site ban is overkill and hampers people who collaborate across the divide from observing the common courtesies like giving credit and a link back, or be able to expand your options by linking to a resource. I'm not even mentioning the implied judgment. If people are getting tired of seeing this site ban questioned, maybe consider alternatives.

 

The lack of any sort of age gateway/confirmation is the major problem, not the ads themselves e.g. there are XXX ads on the front page of the site without the user having to login and say "I'm over 18". Yes, it's really easy for kids to access content like this if they want to online, but a bare minimum age gateway of that type goes a long way to show you, as the site admin, have washed your hands of the situation by ensuring you've made it very clear, from the get-go, that the content on the site is for people aged 18 or over and if the user accepts that, they gain entry under that proviso. It also ensures people who've come to the site "innocently", without knowing anything about LL, don't go blind/their heads don't explode/they don't have an aneurysm and whatever else looking at porn does to people.

If you want to talk about those ads or an age gate, I'd like to as well, actually. Maybe hoping we could get to a practical alternative, hoping to cut down on the drama a little.

Frankly, though, perhaps that's better done in pm? After all, some of my counterparts here muddy the water, tacking on fresh reasons and being quite unreasonable:

 

It only takes a few minutes to search and find ripped (illegal) content on that site.

There is a difference between "easy to find" and "best and most prominent LL has to offer" and I have never said the latter. As a staff member who routinely deals with ripped content and knows where to find ripped meshes/textures and extraction tools on the internet, I can easily spot such mods and check them. And in regard to such content, we have rules that the staff is expected to enforce ("Do not post links to/advertise a third-party site that is unrelated to the mission of Nexus, or is engaged in selling products or offering services of a dubious nature, or hosts or provides access to illegal content" and "...you may not link to sites or files where you can download files that do not adhere to copyright laws. Examples include sites that include files with rips from other games and stolen work from other mod authors without the authors permission. Ignorance is not an excuse. Before you link to a site YOU should ensure that it is safe to link to. A simple search of the site should tell you very quickly whether its acceptable or not."), not to mention a fairly detailed explanation in Dark0ne's post about ported content.

There is ripped content on LL, and for that reason, as the rules dictate, we are obliged to block links to that site.

<snip> Nobody is perfect, and I certainly do not claim perfection. We enforce rules, and when we make a mistake, we do apologize. Dark0ne regularly reviews moderation actions, and ensures that they are well documented.

 

As we said, the reason why LL is blocked:

a) its pornographic ads;

b) the hosted ripped and other unauthorized content or content that violates UK law;

 

There are indeed talented people there. They are not shunned here in any way as long as they follow the old adage: "When in Rome, do as the Romans do". Nexus has different, more stringent rules, but these rules are in the Terms of Service and moderator action is always based on those rules.

How can you expect of LL that it should not have a single kB of unauthorized copyrighted content when Nexus could never hope to say the same of itself either. Surely this can't be Nexus's official position. It took me less than a minute to find 300 megs of Bob Marley music that's been hosted on Nexus for almost a year. By LadyMilla's reasoning, this is proof of such common, continued, willful criminal negligence on her own part that - rules are rules, your hands are tied - Nexus should go blacklist itself. How could anyone not see or resent the double standard.

 

Thandal says we wipe our behinds with reports. Well, whether he believes it or not, whether it's hearsay or a grudge over a single case that may've been mishandled, saying it's unofficial policy is irresponsible. Contributing to that image of us contributes to illegal content finding its way to us. And discourages Nexus modders with legit complaints from coming over and seeking redress. I could tell you stories about what that leads to in practice.

 

Thanks for bringing that mod to our attention. I have already removed it. Unfortunately you were the very first user to report it. However, I must say considering the size of the Nexus sites (120,309 files for 195 games from 49,481 mod authors) it is entirely conceivable that there are more of these mods that stayed under the radar. It is one of the cases when our community, which is quite adept otherwise at recognizing mods that violate our rules did not report a certain file. However, I must point out that finding a file that avoided attention does not invalidate our reasons for blocking LL and many other sites. It would be like complaining to the policeman who stopped you for speeding: "Hey, if you don't catch all of them, you have no right to pester me".

[rblood01]

 

Ask anyone who knows me, I'm not into the territorial nonsense, neither drink or serve Kool Aid. I'm a serious person, and I'm all about the modding, not this song and dance about us being the 'competition'. People don't seem to realize that there are LL modders' fingerprints on Nexus mods, and the other way around.

Sure, the people who keep bringing the issue up tend to be ex bannees and what not, with an axe to grind, and this whole 'yay LL' thing does get on my nerves too. It's hardly 'petty' though to point out this site ban is overkill and hampers people who collaborate across the divide from observing the common courtesies like giving credit and a link back, or be able to expand your options by linking to a resource. I'm not even mentioning the implied judgment. If people are getting tired of seeing this site ban questioned, maybe consider alternatives.

-DoctaSax

You do have a point that I didn't think of. The authors here might also work on other mods or use some parts of mods etc and need to link back for common courtesies. My statement was purely from a user's standpoint. I now understand why this keeps on popping up.

 

How can you expect of LL that it should not have a single kB of unauthorized copyrighted content when Nexus could never hope to say the same of itself either. Surely this can't be Nexus's official position. It took me less than a minute to find 300 megs of Bob Marley music that's been hosted on Nexus for almost a year. By LadyMilla's reasoning, this is proof of such common, continued, willful criminal negligence on her own part that - rules are rules, your hands are tied - Nexus should go blacklist itself. How could anyone not see or resent the double standard. -DoctaSax

 

Thanks for bringing that mod to our attention. I have already removed it. Unfortunately you were the very first user to report it. However, I must say considering the size of the Nexus sites (120,309 files for 195 games from 49,481 mod authors) it is entirely conceivable that there are more of these mods that stayed under the radar. It is one of the cases when our community, which is quite adept otherwise at recognizing mods that violate our rules did not report a certain file. However, I must point out that finding a file that avoided attention does not invalidate our reasons for blocking LL and many other sites. It would be like complaining to the policeman who stopped you for speeding: "Hey, if you don't catch all of them, you have no right to pester me". -LadyMilla

I'd imagine both sites rely on reports to root out all content that might be questionable. When presented with a mod that has violated the rules LadyMilla removed it promptly. Is this also the case at LL? Can someone report and expect quick action on the content if violating copy-write rules at LL? Perhaps even someone that isn't a member report this content? If that is the case then the answer is simple for those that have complaints on LL having copyrighted materials just needs to report them.

[WursWaldo]

I wasn’t aware of ‘LL’ before reading this thread one week ago. Out of curiosity I registered there and this is what I have discovered;

Piracy

There are no traces of pirated games or other media on the site that I could find. I didn’t see any posts requesting help with getting pirated games to function, no links to pirate torrents, or anything else to suggest piracy is allowed there. The accusations of piracy are false.

Copyright Protected Game Content

I only found two instances of ripped content at LL; one is a mod for adding the Oblivion iron armor to Skyrim. The other was a very old Oblivion mod featuring 3DPoser models and textures. After a Google search I found the same mod is available here at Nexus.

In comparison I have found over 20 gun mods for Nexus New Vegas alone that are obvious rips from Black Ops and Ghost Recon. I recognize these meshes and textures because I own both games and I have used them for my own renders at Renderosity. Ubisoft and Activision do not allow their software to be redistributed by end users.

The accusations of LL hosting ripped content are minimally true, though using that as an excuse to not allow linking is laughably hypocritical considering the volume of ripped content there versus what can be found here.

Adult Ads

Yes, I was greeted with animated adult ads. I am married so it wasn’t anything I haven’t seen before, though I did feel ambushed. The site needs an age gateway, in my opinion.

Other Considerations

Over the last week I have made comparisons in member traffic between the two sites. No matter the day or time, LL had three times as many registered members active as did Nexus. If we had 220 members logged in and using the site, they had 660. I have no explanation for this since both sites host mods for the same games. Also, the volume of traffic is about the same for both sites, though in some instances they had more. The majority of people looking at Nexus at any given time are visitors who are not logged in. They are simply looking and are not downloading or participating.

Something else I noticed is the lack of internet drama at LL. From what I could gather, they do not allow politics, political correctness or SJW internet activism. I have the impression LL functions as a community and not simply as a place to download mods. I also believe their users are older than ours. They are certainly more well-behaved.

Also, their users seem more well-connected than ours. I saw information there about games and mods we simply don’t have.

My last point is the mods at LL. I find a lot of them offensive, but I find some mods hosted here offensive. With that, there several mods at LL (very good non-adult ones) that are not hosted here. One case in particular is the XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended mod. That mod was made almost two years ago and it is only now available at Nexus. It is one of the top rated files for Nexus Skyrim at this time and we are treating it like it is new. LL has been hosting a lot of clothing, armor and body mods meant to be used specifically with that skeleton for a long time now. We are behind the times is some cases and that bothers me some.

I don’t know if anything I’ve typed here will be helpful. I wanted to see for myself what LL is about. The only things I can see as being ‘wrong’ is some of the more extreme sexual game content and the lack of an age gateway. Other than that, LL has qualities Nexus is lacking. They are doing something right, but I don’t know what that is.

Edited for spelling:

Edited August 4, 2015 by WursWaldo

[LadyMilla]

 

I wasn’t aware of ‘LL’ before reading this thread one week ago. Out of curiosity I registered there and this is what I have discovered;

Piracy

There are no traces of pirated games or other media on the site that I could find. I didn’t see any posts requesting help with getting pirated games to function, no links to pirate torrents, or anything else to suggest piracy is allowed there. The accusations of piracy are false.

Copy Right Protected Game Content

I only found two instances of ripped content at LL; one is a mod for adding the Oblivion iron armor to Skyrim. The other was a very old Oblivion mod featuring 3DPoser models and textures. After a Google search I found the same mod is available here at Nexus.

In comparison I have found over 20 gun mods for Nexus New Vegas alone that are obvious rips from Black Ops and Ghost Recon. I recognize these meshes and textures because I own both games and I have used them for my own renders at Renderosity. Ubisoft and Activision do not allow their software to be redistributed by end users.

The accusations of LL hosting ripped content are minimally true, though using that as an excuse to not allow linking is laughably hypocritical considering the volume of ripped content there versus what can be found here.

Adult Adds

Yes, I was greeted with animated adult ads. I am married so it wasn’t anything I haven’t seen before, though I did feel ambushed. The site needs an age gateway, in my opinion.

Other Considerations

Over the last week I have made comparisons in member traffic between the two sites. No matter the day or time, LL had three times as many registered members active as did Nexus. If we had 220 members logged in and using the site, they had 660. I have no explanation for this since both sites host mods for the same games. Also, the volume of traffic is about the same for both sites, though in some instances they had more. The majority of people looking at Nexus at any given time are visitors who are not logged in. They are simply looking and are not downloading or participating.

Something else I noticed is the lack of internet drama at LL. From what I could gather, they do not allow politics, political correctness or SJW internet activism. I have the impression LL functions as a community and not simply as a place to download mods. I also believe their users are older than ours. They are certainly more well-behaved.

Also, their users seem more well-connected than ours. I saw information there about games and mods we simply don’t have.

My last point is the mods at LL. I find a lot of them offensive, but I find some mods hosted here offensive. With that, there several mods at LL (very good non-adult ones) that are not hosted here. One case in particular is the XP32 Maximum Skeleton Extended mod. That mod was made almost two years ago and it is only now available at Nexus. It is one of the top rated files for Nexus Skyrim at this time and we are treating it like it is new. LL has been hosting a lot of clothing, armor and body mods meant to be used specifically with that skeleton for a long time now. We are behind the times is some cases and that bothers me some.

I don’t know if anything I’ve typed here will be helpful. I wanted to see for myself what LL is about. They only things I can see as being ‘wrong’ is some of the more extreme sexual game content and the lack of an age gateway. Other than that, LL has qualities Nexus is lacking. They are doing something right, but I don’t know what that is.

 

 

"Pirate site" is a phrase that the original poster used in the title of his topic. We simply refer to LL and the other blocked sites as "blacklisted".

 

As to instances of ripped content, obviously you did not look hard enough if you only found two. There are definitely more, and it should be the responsibility of their own community and admins to find them and remove them. With only 1800+ hosted files their task is much easier. Also, you are welcome to report those gun mods and the suspected 3DPoser mod that you found on Nexus and we will remove them if they are indeed ripped content from other games or if they were used without permission.

 

Traffic comparison: comparing the number of active members listed at the bottom of the forum pages is pointless. Nexus members who are only active on the file sites (and that includes making posts in mod comment topics) are not listed on our forum pages as active users. LL does not have a dedicated file host so everyone, including those who only visited LL to download a single file, are listed as active at the given moment. As long as we receive 25,000 completed questionnaires in a two and a half day period, I am not worried about our user base.

[Dark0ne]

This thread has detracted massively from the original point of the post. It's not about a penis size comparison.

 

I've already stated my reason for the site being blacklisted. That's the only reason why the site is blacklisted. I already addressed "pirated" content and asked if anyone could confirm pirated content had been reported and nothing had been done about it on LL. No one responded to that. We have "pirated" content here; we must have, it's a statistical definite. We've got a crap-ton of files and some pirated content is going to slip through the cracks. We can't judge other sites for having the same problem we have unless it can be confirmed that the moderation at LL do nothing about it when reported. I've seen nothing to suggest that's the case so it's a completely moot point which only serves to make us look silly by continuing to argue it, despite it's pointlessness.

 

The main issue is that of the porn ads and the lack of an age gateway. Why there's not an age gateway isn't my problem; we wouldn't allow people to directly link to porn sites/other sites with porn ads that didn't have an age gateway, and the same applies to LL. If that's addressed then I really don't see a reason to continue the blacklisting. If it's not addressed then LL will remain blacklisted. It's pretty simple really.

 

This thread has derailed because people have been arguing points that are completely superfluous to the original point of discussion.

 

I've said the reason for the blacklisting, it can either be resolved or it can't.

[WursWaldo]

"Pirate site" is a phrase that the original poster used in the title of his topic. We simply refer to LL and the other blocked sites as "blacklisted".

I did not state that anyone on the staff called LL a pirate site. Though bben did effectively state as much.

I think you missed the point. piracy is not the only reason a site may be proscribed here, There are actually several other reasons. You are making the assumption that because a site is proscribed it absolutely must be for piracy. And in this case - not so. A site may be proscribed for pushing malware, for allowing people to upload someone elses work without permission, for allowing rips from other games, for allowing copyright infringement, for not following age restrictions that are required by law in the UK & US as well as piracy, and possibly a few other reasons. But not ONLY piracy.

 

 

As to instances of ripped content, obviously you did not look hard enough if you only found two.

I admit I only did a surface level search. There I found two, here I found over 20.

 

There are definitely more, and it should be the responsibility of their own community and admins to find them and remove them. With only 1800+ hosted files their task is much easier. Also, you are welcome to report those gun mods and the suspected 3DPoser mod that you found on Nexus and we will remove them if they are indeed ripped content from other games or if they were used without permission.

If the staff and community at LL are to blame for ripped content hosted there, where does the blame lie here at Nexus for ripped content? You are very quick to point fingers and are holding another forum to a standard higher than one you hold for yourself or the Nexus membership.

As to reporting the mods I have found here, no thank you. Why should the duty fall on me to report something the staff should be aware of? If I may make a suggestion, rooting out these mods is a chance for you to prove your mettle. I will not do your job for you.

 

Traffic comparison: comparing the number of active members listed at the bottom of the forum pages is pointless. Nexus members who are only active on the file sites (and that includes making posts in mod comment topics) are not listed on our forum pages as active users. LL does not have a dedicated file host so everyone, including those who only visited LL to download a single file, are listed as active at the given moment. As long as we receive 25,000 completed questionnaires in a two and a half day period, I am not worried about our user base.

I did not compare downloads to downloads. Nexus is huge and that would be silly. What I compared were the forums where the communities participate. They have a more active community than we do. I never said they have more mods or get more downloads. I understand the community side of Nexus is less important than the individual game sections where people download and upload.

 

I don't understand why this topic makes you so upset. You're addressing me as if I attacked you or Nexus and that wasn't the case. One thing is clear, you have a blatant dislike for LL, otherwise you wouldn't react the way you do. Your reasons are your own, but if someone can't post in this thread objectively without you tearing their heads off then maybe the thread is toxic and should be locked.

[WursWaldo]

@ Dark0ne

I apologize for including the 'Other Considerations' section of my post. They were more casual observations and musings than anything else. They were not intended to offend anyone.

[LadyMilla]

 

One thing is clear, you have a blatant dislike for LL, otherwise you wouldn't react the way you do. Your reasons are your own, but if someone can't post in this thread objectively without you tearing their heads off then maybe the thread is toxic and should be locked.

 

 

I do not have a blatant dislike for LL. I do have a blatant dislike for ripped content (for reasons beyond the simple fact that, when they are used without permission, they violate somebody's copyright). That is why I'm sorry to hear that you are unwilling to report those that you've found on Nexus. We rely heavily on user reports as browsing through 120,00+ files to find content that should not be here in addition to handling the usual daily reports would require a full-time staff and we are only volunteers who moderate the Nexus sites in our free time.

 

Dark0ne has already posted the reason for blacklisting LL. I freely admit that my sarcastic response to foss4's statement about LL hosting only original content derailed the discussion and brought up a subject that had no bearing on the reason for blacklisting them, and for that I apologize.

[DoctaSax]

Yes, it is my own fault.

I'm really sorry for never truly seeing it that way.

Literally nobody ever reads the OP, not even the people who never have a feel for anything.

I'll own that straight up: always the punchline to my own jokes, trying to be liked by my peers.

But who puts someone like me in charge? I do, obviously.

Happy to help.