Regarding Site Listed as Pirate Site and more.

[Dark0ne]

I imagine they just took a leaf out of the Fox News book on how to represent statistics to suit your agenda (I know Fox News is an easy target/they're not the only ones by half, but still....).

[bben46]

Having taken a graduate level statistics course, the first thing the instructor showed us was how to use the exact same set of data to prove both side of the same question. And that anyone trying to prove their own point by using statistics was very probably lying to you. Then he taught us how to do a very good looking statistical analysis by cherry picking the data points to show whatever we wanted to show. And dropping those data sets that showed contrary as "irrelevant to this specific study". The next thing to know about statistics is a lot of them are either made up on the spot or fudged to show what they want you to see. Statistics can be a legitimate tool. But far too often, like any tool, statistics can be misused.

 

The simplest example of using data to mislead is the old joke about how they had a race in Russia, An American corvette against a Russian Zil. The Russian news proudly reported that the Russian car came in second place, and the American next to last. Both statements absolutely true.

[Arthmoor]

Dark0ne, LadyMilla, Arthmoor...every moderator and mod maker on the Nexus and abroad I'm begging you; please we cannot be divided on this. If we continue to bicker with LL over petty disagreements (don't kid yourself BOTH sides are guilty of some pretty childish antics) we'll completely ignore the very serious threat that is beginning to rear its butt ugly head. Remember the quote of the Arthashastra;

 

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend." I don't want to see the Nexus become, "This mod will cost you $1.99 to download; please input your credit card number and billing address."

You appear to have mistake me for:

 

1. Someone who opposes paid mods.

2. Someone who cares whether or not LL is blacklisted.

 

I posted merely to point out the flaw in the comparisons of traffic analysis on LL vs what the forum shows you here.

 

They'd obviously only been checking the Skyrim Workshop stats to come to that figure as I had no email from them asking for detailed stats to help them in their research. Another set back in a string of "Valve/Steam Workshop is all our community is about" blunders from Bethesda. For comparison, the most popular mod on Skyrim Workshop has 1.53 million unique page views, the most popular mod on Skyrim Nexus has 8 million unique downloads (probably the closest thing to compare rather than "subscribers").

I suspect the reason they rely on Workshop numbers is because it's tied to official APIs which they can easily access to see how many of their users download the CK, use it, then upload a mod for others. Given what we as modders can see for subscriber rates, download numbers, and the financial data we had on hand for the paid mods thing, I can only imagine how much MORE analytics data a publisher has access to.

 

Nexus obviously doesn't provide this to them, so it wouldn't be prudent for them to draw any conclusions from the data here without that same kind of system being available.

 

That said, yes, basing statistics on only those who get mods from the Workshop falls short of the true numbers by some large margin. What other reliable method do they have though?

[aeonthraen]

 

Dark0ne, LadyMilla, Arthmoor...every moderator and mod maker on the Nexus and abroad I'm begging you; please we cannot be divided on this. If we continue to bicker with LL over petty disagreements (don't kid yourself BOTH sides are guilty of some pretty childish antics) we'll completely ignore the very serious threat that is beginning to rear its butt ugly head. Remember the quote of the Arthashastra;

 

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend." I don't want to see the Nexus become, "This mod will cost you $1.99 to download; please input your credit card number and billing address."

You appear to have mistake me for:

 

1. Someone who opposes paid mods.

2. Someone who cares whether or not LL is blacklisted.

 

I posted merely to point out the flaw in the comparisons of traffic analysis on LL vs what the forum shows you here.

 

They'd obviously only been checking the Skyrim Workshop stats to come to that figure as I had no email from them asking for detailed stats to help them in their research. Another set back in a string of "Valve/Steam Workshop is all our community is about" blunders from Bethesda. For comparison, the most popular mod on Skyrim Workshop has 1.53 million unique page views, the most popular mod on Skyrim Nexus has 8 million unique downloads (probably the closest thing to compare rather than "subscribers").

I suspect the reason they rely on Workshop numbers is because it's tied to official APIs which they can easily access to see how many of their users download the CK, use it, then upload a mod for others. Given what we as modders can see for subscriber rates, download numbers, and the financial data we had on hand for the paid mods thing, I can only imagine how much MORE analytics data a publisher has access to.

 

Nexus obviously doesn't provide this to them, so it wouldn't be prudent for them to draw any conclusions from the data here without that same kind of system being available.

 

That said, yes, basing statistics on only those who get mods from the Workshop falls short of the true numbers by some large margin. What other reliable method do they have though?

 

No Arthmoor you completely missed the point good sir. I wasn't trying to imply LL gets more traffic or the Nexus does. While its relevant yes I'm afraid you missed the overall meaning of what I stated. A divided community is a weak community and constantly bickering with LL could potentially lead to modding community as a whole being suddenly subjected to a corporate mentality that can only end in disaster. I'm trying to help Nexus mend bridges with LL if at all possible.

 

As for trying to get accurate statistics that would encourage Bethesda to realize the current model works better than the Paid Mod model as I stated before it would not be as simple as tracing an IP and watching the traffic (that could result in possible legal issues). About the only alternative would be to contact said people on those mod sites and acquire a concrete Spreadsheet of monthly or possibly yearly activity. Getting them to willingly cooperate with the Nexus though, that's the Pandora's Box. Look I don't like iterating this but some elements on the Nexus have left some very raw feelings and a lot of people out there feeling very salty about it all but this is still important.

 

We need to take a step back and offer a hand in friendship, not animosity. If they bite that hand well its their loss. I've been part of this community since 2006 and in all that time it was only recently that I started hearing of people that are hurt and disgruntled at some of the Nexus' actions. Most might be false granted, but the sheer volume of people complaining can't simply be a fluke. I'm reminded of a quote from Bablyon 5, "Understanding is a three edged sword; there's their understanding, there's your understanding and then there's the truth." I know most of the slander must be baseless and immature but not 100% of it. Please ladies and gentlemen of the Nexus, we need offer the olive branch to those willing to accept it because a bigger shadow of ill intentions is on the horizon.

 

Also Arthmoor if you thought I mistook you for someone who supported said actions no sir, I never implied that. If that's the idea you got then I'm sorry for that. I didn't mean to unnerve or upset you and that goes for all the moderators here. I'm...just trying to play Mother Teresa I think for the modding community as a whole. I don't want us to be divided Y>Y

Edited September 6, 2015 by aeonthraen

[Arthmoor]

Seems to me LL has already been given the conditions under which the blacklist entry would be removed. Ball seems to be in their court, which means it's up to them how this plays out now.

 

I will say though that it's not just rumor and speculation that you can find unauthorized mods there (in the sense that the author doesn't want it there) because the last few times I lurked I saw stuff I know the authors don't want distributed anywhere but here. I'm not one to support single host uploads, which is why I mirror everything I make to multiple sites. Less likely one going belly up can mess with things, but LL is not one of those sites I'd use because I don't want to send people to sites that deliver porn ads and/or only pay lip service to the anti-piracy debate. It doesn't take much to look through the listings to find these things either. And no, I'm not going to go back to look for it and/or register to report it.

[JimboUK]

 

I've been part of this community since 2006 and in all that time it was only recently that I started hearing of people that are hurt and disgruntled at some of the Nexus' actions. Most might be false granted, but the sheer volume of people complaining can't simply be a fluke.

 

 

What have you experienced or seen that suggests the level of unfairness some complain of? the bans and warnings are public here for everyone to see, have a look through them and I bet you'll struggle to find evidence of what people complain about. What you'll find are pirates, spammers, content thieves, the chronically self entitled, those who abuse authors, those who set out to make things unpleasant for other people and those with the social skills of a baboon, do we really want these kinds of people in the community?

 

The Nexus provides an environment where decent civilised people can express themselves, share their creations and enjoy their hobby without halfwits spoiling everything, start turning a blind eye to the type of people currently shown the door and it won't be long before the place is as poisonous as YouTube.

[aeonthraen]

 

 

I've been part of this community since 2006 and in all that time it was only recently that I started hearing of people that are hurt and disgruntled at some of the Nexus' actions. Most might be false granted, but the sheer volume of people complaining can't simply be a fluke.

 

 

What have you experienced or seen that suggests the level of unfairness some complain of? the bans and warnings are public here for everyone to see, have a look through them and I bet you'll struggle to find evidence of what people complain about. What you'll find are pirates, spammers, content thieves, the chronically self entitled, those who abuse authors, those who set out to make things unpleasant for other people and those with the social skills of a baboon, do we really want these kinds of people in the community?

 

The Nexus provides an environment where decent civilised people can express themselves, share their creations and enjoy their hobby without halfwits spoiling everything, start turning a blind eye to the type of people currently shown the door and it won't be long before the place is as poisonous as YouTube.

 

Well for one on LL there's an entire thread on General Discussion of pages and pages of people who feel they have been treated unfairly not to mention the entire population almost of LL as a whole. Don't you think that's just a little odd to you? One or two people okay that's just something twisting in the wind but hundreds of pages of disgruntled banned members? Some of which have stated they were banned simply out of spite? I don't want to quote any names but just look at the General Discussion thread and you'll see what I mean. There are a lot of hurt people over there. Of course we don't want malcontents at the Nexus but ....all of them are malcontents? What about the one who created the Skyrim Romance Mod? She openly tried to apologize on many different occasions for attempting to make a Kickstarter; she was ignored and IP banned.

 

That is what you call a civilized community?

 

Look I don't want to come off as someone accusing the Nexus of being abusive. If I did I'm sorry. I'm only trying to find a sense of peace between both communities. Arthmoor is right; the ball is in their court and I am sensing some animosity on their side and unwillingness to meet the Nexus half-way but seriously can you blame them?

Edited September 7, 2015 by aeonthraen

[Thandal]

There's a whole thread on LL from people who have been treated entirely fairly here, they just don't like the fact that we actually enforce our Terms of Service. Every Ban, every Formal Warning, every "Strike" (back in the old days) is made public. Anyone, and I mean ANYONE, (even "guests" who do not log-on to the Nexus) can view every single one of them. Starting about three years ago, Dark0ne asked that the Staff include specifics of the activities that drew the Ban or Warning, so for anything since then everyone can read the gory details as well.

 

There are currently 23,668 Ban and/or Warning posts (which also include most of the account Reinstatement notices for those who made successful appeals.) That works out to 0.25% of the over 9.5M current members, and some of those are duplicates (one-or-more Warnings were issued to the same member before we dropped the Banhammer.) An additional large percentage (too hard to determine from the regular user interface, it would take Admin access to do so accurately) are bans of Spammers/Spambots/Bugmenot accounts.

 

Leaving a total of significantly less than one-quarter of one percent of the actual people who use the Nexus having managed to misbehave severely enough to warrant formal Staff action of one sort or another. And as a result, the rest of the membership enjoys a relatively troll-free, polite experience.

 

So we aren't too worried about our reputation on LL. :armscrossed:

[Dark0ne]

Last time I viewed that thread (or one similar) on LL a couple of years back it was just the worst of the worst of the banned members from the Nexus riling up all the others in to a laughably silly rage storm, using (mostly) lies, horrible slander, false statistics and amusing prophecies of the Nexus's downfall to pat each other on the back for having the foresight to get banned from the Nexus before the Nexus closed its doors. Like rats leaving a sinking ship, despite the fact it wasn't sinking at all. Any members who tried to shine some logic and reason in to the thread were quickly shot down. I just rolled my eyes and moved on.

 

We're aware of what's written there. I get messages about it from time to time, but I don't bother to click the links that get sent to me. I seriously don't care to read the sort of mindless crap I've read there before on this topic.

 

I don't doubt that some banned members actually have a good reason to be disgruntled. We've always said we're not perfect and we do get it wrong from time to time. Hence why we have an unbanning system and I've overturned lots of bans personally myself from personal communication from the wronged/misunderstood person. Normally I do a quick Google Search to see what they've been saying elsewhere before I think about it; if it turns out they've been lying about why they were banned and riling up hatred elsewhere, nah, they can stay out. That happens a lot. I'm not expecting someone to sing the Nexus's praises if they get banned from here, but if you're going to talk about why you were banned, be honest about it. And that includes the classic "lying through omission", which typically happens the most. Leaving out pertinent details which explain the ban because it shines the person in a bad light. Like the age old "I got banned for uploading a picture with one nipple in it!!!", and forgetting to add they were personally warned not to do it already.

 

Some of the people who are the most prolific and most outspoken Nexus haters on LL are also the biggest liars about why they were banned and fail to mention the amount of times they were warned to chill the hell out and stop being dicks. Their actions and the horrible things they've said since only help to vindicate the decision to ban them in the first place.

 

But once again, this topic is digressing in to an "us and them" thread again. Anything written above has absolutely no bearing on why LL is blocked on the Nexus at the moment. It's simply, once again, the porn ads and no age gateway being used on obviously 18+ content.

 

Frankly, I'm glad there's somewhere for banned members from the Nexus to go and vent. Saves us having to deal with them trying to make multiple profiles to get back on the site and argue about their ban, and keeps the ranting away from us. I'm just sorry the LL people have to deal with it.

[DrakeTheDragon]

Well for one on LL there's an entire thread on General Discussion of pages and pages of people who feel they have been treated unfairly not to mention the entire population almost of LL as a whole. Don't you think that's just a little odd to you? One or two people okay that's just something twisting in the wind but hundreds of pages of disgruntled banned members? Some of which have stated they were banned simply out of spite? I don't want to quote any names but just look at the General Discussion thread and you'll see what I mean. There are a lot of hurt people over there. Of course we don't want malcontents at the Nexus but ....all of them are malcontents? What about the one who created the Skyrim Romance Mod? She openly tried to apologize on many different occasions for attempting to make a Kickstarter; she was ignored and IP banned.

 

That is what you call a civilized community?

Slight correction, it's "hundreds of pages" by only a "handful" in comparison of people repeating themselves over and over. Go have a read and count their names. They're a minority even over there.

 

Additionally, everybody else from LL so far popping up inside this thread and trying to tell them what they did was wrong and they shouldn't have done that was immediately driven out with the most vile of insults and personal attacks you can imagine through 3+ pages of replies by the same handful of people. Go and have an actual read. You don't want this kind of people hanging around you or on here, trust me.

 

 

Not getting involved in this with yet more off-topic and irrelevant statements, as like was said the ball is on their side now and this topic can rest,

but if you actually read what the small vocal minority of the site in the topic you mentioned is regularly posting about the "typical Nexus member" in general over there, you

a) will need a lot of bleach for your eyes for several hours afterwards, and

b) I'm failing to see any sound reason whatsoever for why a typical Nexus member would even "want" to risk getting into contact with "those". And I don't even know them. Only seeing what they did, and still do, is enough for me, and I'm honestly wondering how it possibly couldn't for you.

 

Only for comparison: There's been several topics like the one and with similar Anti-Nexus statements which a while ago have all been locked by the moderators. Only this one though is still up and running and nobody seems to mind it much. Sorry, have to correct myself here, it's not this thread, which has been locked a year ago actually, but its direct continuation under a different title, which started as a discussion about the Nexus servers and potatoes like around page 1 and then quickly devolved into name calling and attacks again on the following 89 pages, which is still up and running and nobody seems to mind it much. Neither do I, actually, but would they be doing this in a topic here on Nexus, attacking LL, its staff and admins and its general group of members as vile and personally as they have it going over there, they'd been banned all over again ages ago!

Just go and have an actual read.

 

This topic you're referring to cannot, and must not, be used to represent all of LL.

 

edit: Dark0ne put it better than me.

 

edit2: Had to correct a topic mix-up of mine. The topic you're talking of has long ago been locked as well, the topic I was talking of, which is still going on, is a differently titled continuation of the same. (I mixed them up because the open one is like #2 of the locked one in my mind.)