Why we can't use Patreon, and talking about donations and doing more to support mod authors

[DorkDiva]

How is this still even a thing? Should it really be a thing at all? Would it not be better to let it lay quietly so the modding world and the ones modding can get back to normal, at least to some degree? The purity and fun of modding has been tainted because of all of this stuff. I think time out should be taken for things to heal up. At least a little. Seeing people cry about compensation for mods they made and worked on... what? Never have I ever made a mod with any sense of entitlement or dollar as a goal.

 

Sure, and I can confirm this, time, emotion, passion, heart, love and more go into creating mods. But if one is serious about getting paid for making something for games, perhaps go to school and get a job in the industry? Making mods should be fun, for sharing with friends, making things more fun...just plain old fun in general, not crazy serious with dollar signs as a goal. Honestly this is saddening and painful to see and read. What happened to fun? Where did it go? Maybe we all should go and find it! I thought that is why we played games, and modded for them? Not for a hunger for donations or "paid modding"...

 

Money should have no place in modding, at all. Ever. Period.

 

It just dose not feel...right. I don't know.

 

Maybe I am over reacting but it feels wrong.

Edited September 13, 2015 by DorkDiva

[macintroll]

In response to post #28651299.

DorkDiva wrote: How is this still even a thing? Should it really be a thing at all? Would it not be better to let it lay quietly so the modding world and the ones modding can get back to normal, at least to some degree? The purity and fun of modding has been tainted because of all of this stuff. I think time out should be taken for things to heal up. At least a little. Seeing people cry about compensation for mods they made and worked on... what? Never have I ever made a mod with any sense of entitlement or dollar as a goal.

Sure, and I can confirm this, time, emotion, passion, heart, love and more go into creating mods. But if one is serious about getting paid for making something for games, perhaps go to school and get a job in the industry? Making mods should be fun, for sharing with friends, making things more fun...just plain old fun in general, not crazy serious with dollar signs as a goal. Honestly this is saddening and painful to see and read. What happened to fun? Where did it go? Maybe we all should go and find it! I thought that is why we played games, and modded for them? Not for a hunger for donations or "paid modding"...

Money should have no place in modding, at all. Ever. Period.

It just dose not feel...right. I don't know.

Maybe I am over reacting but it feels wrong.

Damn, open your eyes,
Modding already generate money, yes free mods can generate money.

Websites like this one, holding mods, make money (ads, memberships) they are companies, not individuals. It's a business.

Youtubers, writers, make money doing mod showcases (ads again)
Bethesda himself make money
- selling more games for a longer time period.
- recycling modders ideas without ever giving something in return.
And even Paypal take his toll for each donation

The only ones who are not even allowed to take some bucks or to say something are the ones who allow this business by providing free contents and making free support...the modders themselves.

And we are the ones considered as greed ?

[diosoth]

Patreon doesn't really work as a "tip jar" anymore. Too many people who use it have taken to deliberately using it as a forced paywall to access their content, or demanding money to continue making content.

 

I also question the legality of actually making money off game mods, since more often than not for many games, you really don't own the mod you created. I know that as far as Minecraft goes, their TOS gives them full ownership of all user-created content(which maybe explains why 90% of the new stuff they add in updates was taken from mods) and I'd wager that most game companies have similar clauses. Not only does it stop mod creators from selling their content(and you have to admit that users making mods is more of an allowed courtesy on the part of the game company- they do not have to allow users to make mods whatsoever) but if you remember the 90s, it also put an end to random companies compiling mods off the internet and selling them as commercial CD-ROM packs- of which they often did without the mod authors' knowledge or any license from the company.

 

Plus it also eliminates a lot of drama and bad feelings if mods are suddenly being sold- there are those in the Doom community who still aren't happy that Final Doom was switched from a pack of freeware levels to a commercial product at the last minute, and that happened almost 20 years ago.

[sheson]

 

In response to post #28651299.

 

 

 

DorkDiva wrote: How is this still even a thing? Should it really be a thing at all? Would it not be better to let it lay quietly so the modding world and the ones modding can get back to normal, at least to some degree? The purity and fun of modding has been tainted because of all of this stuff. I think time out should be taken for things to heal up. At least a little. Seeing people cry about compensation for mods they made and worked on... what? Never have I ever made a mod with any sense of entitlement or dollar as a goal.

 

Sure, and I can confirm this, time, emotion, passion, heart, love and more go into creating mods. But if one is serious about getting paid for making something for games, perhaps go to school and get a job in the industry? Making mods should be fun, for sharing with friends, making things more fun...just plain old fun in general, not crazy serious with dollar signs as a goal. Honestly this is saddening and painful to see and read. What happened to fun? Where did it go? Maybe we all should go and find it! I thought that is why we played games, and modded for them? Not for a hunger for donations or "paid modding"...

 

Money should have no place in modding, at all. Ever. Period.

 

It just dose not feel...right. I don't know.

 

Maybe I am over reacting but it feels wrong.

Damn, open your eyes,

Modding already generate money, yes free mods can generate money.

 

Websites like this one, holding mods, make money (ads, memberships) they are companies, not individuals. It's a business.

 

Youtubers, writers, make money doing mod showcases (ads again)

Bethesda himself make money

- selling more games for a longer time period.

- recycling modders ideas without ever giving something in return.

And even Paypal take his toll for each donation

 

The only ones who are not even allowed to take some bucks or to say something are the ones who allow this business by providing free contents and making free support...the modders themselves.

 

And we are the ones considered as greed ?

 

 

I fail to see how anyone is strong armed creating something for free so others can get rich?

[macintroll]

In response to post #28655914.

sheson wrote:

 

In response to post #28651299.

DorkDiva wrote: How is this still even a thing? Should it really be a thing at all? Would it not be better to let it lay quietly so the modding world and the ones modding can get back to normal, at least to some degree? The purity and fun of modding has been tainted because of all of this stuff. I think time out should be taken for things to heal up. At least a little. Seeing people cry about compensation for mods they made and worked on... what? Never have I ever made a mod with any sense of entitlement or dollar as a goal.

Sure, and I can confirm this, time, emotion, passion, heart, love and more go into creating mods. But if one is serious about getting paid for making something for games, perhaps go to school and get a job in the industry? Making mods should be fun, for sharing with friends, making things more fun...just plain old fun in general, not crazy serious with dollar signs as a goal. Honestly this is saddening and painful to see and read. What happened to fun? Where did it go? Maybe we all should go and find it! I thought that is why we played games, and modded for them? Not for a hunger for donations or "paid modding"...

Money should have no place in modding, at all. Ever. Period.

It just dose not feel...right. I don't know.

Maybe I am over reacting but it feels wrong.

Damn, open your eyes,
Modding already generate money, yes free mods can generate money.

Websites like this one, holding mods, make money (ads, memberships) they are companies, not individuals. It's a business.

Youtubers, writers, make money doing mod showcases (ads again)
Bethesda himself make money
- selling more games for a longer time period.
- recycling modders ideas without ever giving something in return.
And even Paypal take his toll for each donation

The only ones who are not even allowed to take some bucks or to say something are the ones who allow this business by providing free contents and making free support...the modders themselves.

And we are the ones considered as greed ?

 

 

I fail to see how anyone is strong armed creating something for free so others can get rich?

I'm not sure to understand what you mean ?

[ivanthesoso]

In response to post #28627094. #28636674 is also a reply to the same post.

mcguffin wrote: Donation was the hypocritical answer to the paid mod system in steam.
Players said, "dont sell mods, give us a way to donate."
What a joke.

Todays, around the internet, only containers get money:
Sell devices, you get everything.
Sell content, you are screwed.
Not only mod, but anything: music, arts, design, movies... anything that is content is screwed.

People says they can't give anything, but they have internet... and, here, a gaming computer.
The reality is that most people doesnt even bother to simply says something ("thank you" or an endorsement).
They just dont give a s#*! of anything
They take. Period.

fraquar wrote: If 1,000 people donated just $1.00 to a mod author, that's $100,000 (crazy money). So the real question is what is an acceptable amount if I did donate that wouldn't piss people like you (a modder who sounds like he's expecting to be paid) off?

Correction: Had too much to drink, that $1,000 but hopefully you get my point when there are 1,000,000 people plus downloading a mod.

Here's my problem with this - there are "unofficial" mods that the rest of the modders consider "official". Those "unofficial" mods are constantly changing, making mods I've paid for that I really like eventually break the game - lest I become a "shadetree modder" myself fixing the very mods I've paid for?

Another question, is a language conversion of an existing mod considered modding? If so, which author is entitled to X share of the donation?

1,000 X 1 = 1,000

[TehKaoZ]

In response to post #28627094. #28636674, #28656994 are all replies on the same post.

mcguffin wrote: Donation was the hypocritical answer to the paid mod system in steam.
Players said, "dont sell mods, give us a way to donate."
What a joke.

Todays, around the internet, only containers get money:
Sell devices, you get everything.
Sell content, you are screwed.
Not only mod, but anything: music, arts, design, movies... anything that is content is screwed.

People says they can't give anything, but they have internet... and, here, a gaming computer.
The reality is that most people doesnt even bother to simply says something ("thank you" or an endorsement).
They just dont give a s#*! of anything
They take. Period.

fraquar wrote: If 1,000 people donated just $1.00 to a mod author, that's $100,000 (crazy money). So the real question is what is an acceptable amount if I did donate that wouldn't piss people like you (a modder who sounds like he's expecting to be paid) off?

Correction: Had too much to drink, that $1,000 but hopefully you get my point when there are 1,000,000 people plus downloading a mod.

Here's my problem with this - there are "unofficial" mods that the rest of the modders consider "official". Those "unofficial" mods are constantly changing, making mods I've paid for that I really like eventually break the game - lest I become a "shadetree modder" myself fixing the very mods I've paid for?

Another question, is a language conversion of an existing mod considered modding? If so, which author is entitled to X share of the donation?

ivanthesoso wrote: 1,000 X 1 = 1,000

If I had to guess the problem is that 1,000 people using a mod aren't donating anything. Closer to 1 of 1,000 actually give anything. No one's expecting any individual person to donate an absurd amount of money, but rather that more people as a whole consider donating.

[okroulek]

As a modder and mod author both I can honestly say that this whole paid mod scenario is ruinous. I can only think of a handful of mods I would even consider paying for, especially with how buggy so many mods are. Those few good ones I might consider throwing a dollar their way to show appreciation, but lets face it, modding is not a viable career for the vast majority of mod authors. Trying to make modding a self-contained industry in its own right in an attempt to put developers to work who didn't make the cut in the actual gaming industry is just silly. It won't work because the content doesn't stand on its own, and is not professionally supported. I love modding, and this is a great site, but if required to pay my browser would never hit this site again.

[bethjunkie]

In response to post #28651299. #28652059 is also a reply to the same post.

DorkDiva wrote: How is this still even a thing? Should it really be a thing at all? Would it not be better to let it lay quietly so the modding world and the ones modding can get back to normal, at least to some degree? The purity and fun of modding has been tainted because of all of this stuff. I think time out should be taken for things to heal up. At least a little. Seeing people cry about compensation for mods they made and worked on... what? Never have I ever made a mod with any sense of entitlement or dollar as a goal.

Sure, and I can confirm this, time, emotion, passion, heart, love and more go into creating mods. But if one is serious about getting paid for making something for games, perhaps go to school and get a job in the industry? Making mods should be fun, for sharing with friends, making things more fun...just plain old fun in general, not crazy serious with dollar signs as a goal. Honestly this is saddening and painful to see and read. What happened to fun? Where did it go? Maybe we all should go and find it! I thought that is why we played games, and modded for them? Not for a hunger for donations or "paid modding"...

Money should have no place in modding, at all. Ever. Period.

It just dose not feel...right. I don't know.

Maybe I am over reacting but it feels wrong.

macintroll wrote: Damn, open your eyes,
Modding already generate money, yes free mods can generate money.

Websites like this one, holding mods, make money (ads, memberships) they are companies, not individuals. It's a business.

Youtubers, writers, make money doing mod showcases (ads again)
Bethesda himself make money
- selling more games for a longer time period.
- recycling modders ideas without ever giving something in return.
And even Paypal take his toll for each donation

The only ones who are not even allowed to take some bucks or to say something are the ones who allow this business by providing free contents and making free support...the modders themselves.

And we are the ones considered as greed ?

I agree, DorkDiva. I wish we could go back to March before any of this happened. Every time another of these topics comes up, I die a little inside. Nobody's mind is ever changed.

But sticking to the subject of donations, I would be interested in donating if it could be completely anonymous. Money changing hands changes the relationship between modder/player and between friends and collaborators. I'd rather not even have a recipient know my username, much less my real name.

[CardTaken]

Legality aside, the issue with mod authors *asking* for donations is all in the quality. There is a small percentage of mods that are *almost* on par with an officially released/supported game. But most are not anywhere near that realm of quality.

 

Most mods offer:

A) No support

B) No (or limited) bug fixes

C) No (or limited) accounting for compatibility

 

This is not meant as an insult to mod authors. There is a lot of work done that I really respect and has given me tons of extra hours of gameplay, especially in Skyrim, which seems to be the biggest one of all for modding.

 

But I am already iffy about dropping $20 bucks on a game that might turn out to be crap and that's from *professional and paid* developers, whose entire livelihood depends on both releasing and supporting a quality product.

 

So sure, legality aside, if I really really like a really really well-put-together mod, I might be apt to support it. But I'm not rich and I have enough trouble deciding what games to throw money at. I know the pain of doing creative stuff for no reward, but to me, the lack of money in modding is a big part of what makes it work. There is no obligation of quality, so people can learn as they go and enjoy what is provided.