ScytheBearer Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 On 11/1/2022 at 5:55 PM, HeyYou said: They are called "Collections" here, and are supported by Vortex, Nexus own mod manager. Probably not quite what you are looking for, but, 'mod packs' like you are talking about are not a popular topic among mod authors. Truth be told, "Collections" are just "mod packs" with a "different name and a different face". The only reason that "Collections" are a "popular" topic is simply because most of the authors who were/are opposed to "collections" have left NexusMods and taken their mods with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worm82075 Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 1 hour ago, ScytheBearer said: Truth be told, "Collections" are just "mod packs" with a "different name and a different face". No, that isn't true. What we call a "collection" is just that a collection of loose files that can be mixed and matched as we see fit because that is the nature of Bethesda's engine. Most other game engines are closed source and the data and assets have to be 'packed' into an encrypted archive the engine can access hence the name Mod Pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 6 hours ago, ScytheBearer said: Truth be told, "Collections" are just "mod packs" with a "different name and a different face". The only reason that "Collections" are a "popular" topic is simply because most of the authors who were/are opposed to "collections" have left NexusMods and taken their mods with them. There are subtle differences between Nexus Collections, and Mod Packs though. A mod pack was a single package that actually contained all the mods. It was a single download, and you just dumped the package into the appropriate folder. Collections, on the other hand, are a selection of links to the mod authors page, to download the file. For premium members, the entire process can be automated, for standard members though, they would have to visit each page, and then click the link to download the file. Most of the objections to collections were due to the 'automated' process. (premium members only) The user would never have to visit the authors mod page. There was talk (at the time) of an 'opt out' option, but, I don't recall if that was ever implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScytheBearer Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 10 hours ago, worm82075 said: No, that isn't true. What we call a "collection" is just that a collection of loose files that can be mixed and matched as we see fit because that is the nature of Bethesda's engine. Most other game engines are closed source and the data and assets have to be 'packed' into an encrypted archive the engine can access hence the name Mod Pack. 5 hours ago, HeyYou said: There are subtle differences between Nexus Collections, and Mod Packs though. A mod pack was a single package that actually contained all the mods. It was a single download, and you just dumped the package into the appropriate folder. Collections, on the other hand, are a selection of links to the mod authors page, to download the file. For premium members, the entire process can be automated, for standard members though, they would have to visit each page, and then click the link to download the file. Most of the objections to collections were due to the 'automated' process. (premium members only) The user would never have to visit the authors mod page. There was talk (at the time) of an 'opt out' option, but, I don't recall if that was ever implemented. potato, potato, tomato, tomato. The linguistic gymnastics used to separate "collections" from "modpacks" was one of the first objections to "collections". Calling an "aircraft crash" a "high speed impact with the ground" doesn't really change what occurred. Calling a "modpack" a "collection" doesn't change what it really is. The major objection for a good number of mod makers never changed; and had nothing to do with automated downloads or mod page visits or download counts or DP points or any of the several half truths used to obfuscate the real issue mod makers had. For most mod makers, it boiled down to the "uncontrolled and uncontrollable associations" of mods; in spite of any branding by a mod author. A perfectly innocent mod gets associated with "thinly veiled pornography" by being included in a "collection" which contains a preponderance of T'n'A mods and has a resulting "Adult" branding. Mod makers did not want their mods ever associated to "adult" branding and when mod makers objected to such "uncontrolled and uncontrollable associations", the official response from NexusMods amounted to little more the backhanded V and associated "bugger off". Now, I have no hope of changing anyone's mind, because the ardent sycophants stayed behind when the majority who objected to "collections" took their mods and departed. Those who remained behind are perfectly welcome to delude yourself with any "collection" of fantasies they wish. Just don't try selling me dehydrated raindrops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worm82075 Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 59 minutes ago, ScytheBearer said: potato, potato, tomato, tomato. Indeed. Being a fence sitter on this topic (having no strong feeling one way or the other) i am in a position to see things as they actually are on both sides. The difference between collections and mod packs are exactly as we described and it is the objectors that had to perform linguistic gymnastics to conflate the two. The real crux of the objection to collections is the loss of recognition from not being able to serve your file directly to your user and the increased demand for technical support from users that blindly installed your files. These are fair objections that unfortunately lost when placed on the scale against the need for the user base to grow. This too i am sure you object to but the fact remains that had we not opened the door to the masses and kept this little club exclusive we might be withering away or not be here at all. Which begs the question... As a conscientious objector, why are YOU still here? Probably for the same reason every revolutionary in history petitioned the people for a new system, completely oblivious to the fact that the current system is the only reason they have the ability to petition in the first place. Often after realizing this they persist in their revolution anyway because "if the system doesn't serve me personally then fuk it, burn it all down." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 1 hour ago, ScytheBearer said: potato, potato, tomato, tomato. The linguistic gymnastics used to separate "collections" from "modpacks" was one of the first objections to "collections". Calling an "aircraft crash" a "high speed impact with the ground" doesn't really change what occurred. Calling a "modpack" a "collection" doesn't change what it really is. The major objection for a good number of mod makers never changed; and had nothing to do with automated downloads or mod page visits or download counts or DP points or any of the several half truths used to obfuscate the real issue mod makers had. For most mod makers, it boiled down to the "uncontrolled and uncontrollable associations" of mods; in spite of any branding by a mod author. A perfectly innocent mod gets associated with "thinly veiled pornography" by being included in a "collection" which contains a preponderance of T'n'A mods and has a resulting "Adult" branding. Mod makers did not want their mods ever associated to "adult" branding and when mod makers objected to such "uncontrolled and uncontrollable associations", the official response from NexusMods amounted to little more the backhanded V and associated "bugger off". Now, I have no hope of changing anyone's mind, because the ardent sycophants stayed behind when the majority who objected to "collections" took their mods and departed. Those who remained behind are perfectly welcome to delude yourself with any "collection" of fantasies they wish. Just don't try selling me dehydrated raindrops. I was there in the mod author forum when this all went down. What I mentioned was indeed an issue, as was your point about associations. I think the biggest issue with authors leaving though, was the fact that deleting their mods was no longer possible. They would simply be 'archived' instead. Nexus reasoning for this was to make sure that "collections" would always be available.... It was also the fact that this was an UNANNOUNCED change, that mod authors discovered when one tried to delete one of his mods, and discovered he couldn't..... and then got an 'oh, by the way' from Nexus staff. It wasn't simply that Nexus was usurping control of peoples work, it was that they never even bothered to mention that it was going to happen... and only admitted it after the fact, when caught. THAT particular bit of chicanery caused a fair few folks to pull their work, and move on from Nexus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScytheBearer Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 6 minutes ago, worm82075 said: Indeed. Being a fence sitter on this topic (having no strong feeling one way or the other) i am in a position to see things as they actually are on both sides. The difference between collections and mod packs are exactly as we described and it is the objectors that had to perform linguistic gymnastics to conflate the two. The real crux of the objection to collections is the loss of recognition from not being able to serve your file directly to your user and the increased demand for technical support from users that blindly installed your files. These are fair objections that unfortunately lost when placed on the scale against the need for the user base to grow. This too i am sure you object to but the fact remains that had we not opened the door to the masses and kept this little club exclusive we might be withering away or not be here at all. Which begs the question... As a conscientious objector, why are YOU still here? Probably for the same reason every revolutionary in history petitioned the people for a new system, completely oblivious to the fact that the current system is the only reason they have the ability to petition in the first place. Often after realizing this they persist in their revolution anyway because "if the system doesn't serve me personally then fuk it, burn it all down." 3 minutes ago, HeyYou said: I was there in the mod author forum when this all went down. What I mentioned was indeed an issue, as was your point about associations. I think the biggest issue with authors leaving though, was the fact that deleting their mods was no longer possible. They would simply be 'archived' instead. Nexus reasoning for this was to make sure that "collections" would always be available.... It was also the fact that this was an UNANNOUNCED change, that mod authors discovered when one tried to delete one of his mods, and discovered he couldn't..... and then got an 'oh, by the way' from Nexus staff. It wasn't simply that Nexus was usurping control of peoples work, it was that they never even bothered to mention that it was going to happen... and only admitted it after the fact, when caught. THAT particular bit of chicanery caused a fair few folks to pull their work, and move on from Nexus. "ardent sycophants", "obfuscating". Like I said Quote Now, I have no hope of changing anyone's mind, because the ardent sycophants stayed behind when the majority who objected to "collections" took their mods and departed. Those who remained behind are perfectly welcome to delude yourself with any "collection" of fantasies they wish. Just don't try selling me dehydrated raindrops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 22 minutes ago, ScytheBearer said: "ardent sycophants", "obfuscating". Like I said Now I remember why I blocked you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
worm82075 Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 1 hour ago, HeyYou said: I was there in the mod author forum when this all went down. What I mentioned was indeed an issue, as was your point about associations. I think the biggest issue with authors leaving though, was the fact that deleting their mods was no longer possible. They would simply be 'archived' instead. Nexus reasoning for this was to make sure that "collections" would always be available.... It was also the fact that this was an UNANNOUNCED change, that mod authors discovered when one tried to delete one of his mods, and discovered he couldn't..... and then got an 'oh, by the way' from Nexus staff. It wasn't simply that Nexus was usurping control of peoples work, it was that they never even bothered to mention that it was going to happen... and only admitted it after the fact, when caught. THAT particular bit of chicanery caused a fair few folks to pull their work, and move on from Nexus. I certainly didn't condone those actions when they occurred and stopped participating in the debate because of it. BUT i am a realist and don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water and have since forgiven Robin for allowing that to happen and have reinvested my faith in the man to not do such a thing again. Some might think he doesn't deserve such faith but i remember years of selfless service prior to that transgression and i feel he had earned my forgiveness. 47 minutes ago, ScytheBearer said: "ardent sycophants", "obfuscating". Like I said Now, I have no hope of changing anyone's mind ...and yet you continue to comment with no counterpoint which means you are only here to sow dissent and chaos. Just pissing into the wind and bitterly wallowing in self loathing and hoping not to be alone in your misery. Too bad there isn't a support group for gamers disaffected by Nexus Mods. You should start a 4chan page, i hear they are super receptive of self absorbed nonsense over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScytheBearer Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 2 hours ago, worm82075 said: Indeed. Being a fence sitter on this topic (having no strong feeling one way or the other) i am in a position to see things as they actually are on both sides. The difference between collections and mod packs are exactly as we described and it is the objectors that had to perform linguistic gymnastics to conflate the two. The real crux of the objection to collections is the loss of recognition from not being able to serve your file directly to your user and the increased demand for technical support from users that blindly installed your files. These are fair objections that unfortunately lost when placed on the scale against the need for the user base to grow. This too i am sure you object to but the fact remains that had we not opened the door to the masses and kept this little club exclusive we might be withering away or not be here at all. Which begs the question... As a conscientious objector, why are YOU still here? Probably for the same reason every revolutionary in history petitioned the people for a new system, completely oblivious to the fact that the current system is the only reason they have the ability to petition in the first place. Often after realizing this they persist in their revolution anyway because "if the system doesn't serve me personally then fuk it, burn it all down." 50 minutes ago, worm82075 said: I certainly didn't condone those actions when they occurred and stopped participating in the debate because of it. BUT i am a realist and don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water and have since forgiven Robin for allowing that to happen and have reinvested my faith in the man to not do such a thing again. Some might think he doesn't deserve such faith but i remember years of selfless service prior to that transgression and i feel he had earned my forgiveness. ...and yet you continue to comment with no counterpoint which means you are only here to sow dissent and chaos. Just pissing into the wind and bitterly wallowing in self loathing and hoping not to be alone in your misery. Too bad there isn't a support group for gamers disaffected by Nexus Mods. You should start a 4chan page, i hear they are super receptive of self absorbed nonsense over there. At this point, you and your ad hominem attacks deserve nothing more than the NexusMods official expression of compassion; a backhanded V and the associated "bugger off". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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