"Solving" the 4-options dialogue system

[TeamBacon]

I don't really have the energy right now to explain to you the vast world of using mechanics inside a game to tell a story, but I can give you a video to explain it to you.

 

 

Thinking that game decisions come down to menus and dialogue only is a very limiting mindset.

 

 

 

This is a game, the things you do define you as a character even more than the things you read.

[anbeegod]

 

Not really.

you could gun down a fringe in FO4 maybe they are more like that, but I have horrible recall of anything that happen if a week has passed.

 

Edit:

If you melee a gas can, it will blow up.

 

 

There are occasions that only dialogues can create the scenery.

 

Like "Die, pay for your crimes!" or straightly kill the criminal.

 

 

 

Sure, you can walk away. But the side quest Timmy's Stuck In A Well stays open in your journal in perpetuity.

 

You can tell Preston to go to hell when you meet him. He'll get pissy with you. You can leave the area. For hours. Days. Months. But if you wonder back into Concord, accidentally kill the Deathcaw, Preston will thank you for saving them and offer you to help him further in Sanctuary.

 

In my opinion, a mod that would actually kill Preston and the minutemen if you abandoned them would work way better for my immersion, then a million dialogue options. I think the current voiced dialogue (at least from NPC's) could be sufficient to make a mod like this work. Without adding dozens of new dialogue options, and then trying to link the NPC responses to each one.

 

 

The Minutemen questline works as a fail-safe to complete the main quests in case you piss all other 3 factions off, just like the Yes-Man questline, as you can happily try and fail in making the fail-safe faction hate you. I agree that Preston Garvey should rot in the Glowing Sea though. "I want you to do everything while I chill at the Castle. Oh, you're the general aren't you? Tell you what, I'm the President."

[TeamBacon]

 

 

Expect if you walked away.

Why no ever tries walking away?

 

 

Sure, you can walk away. But the side quest Timmy's Stuck In A Well stays open in your journal in perpetuity.

 

You can tell Preston to go to hell when you meet him. He'll get pissy with you. You can leave the area. For hours. Days. Months. But if you wonder back into Concord, accidentally kill the Deathcaw, Preston will thank you for saving them and offer you to help him further in Sanctuary.

 

In my opinion, a mod that would actually kill Preston and the minutemen if you abandoned them would work way better for my immersion, then a million dialogue options. I think the current voiced dialogue (at least from NPC's) could be sufficient to make a mod like this work. Without adding dozens of new dialogue options, and then trying to link the NPC responses to each one.

 

 

A consequence for walking away is a much better way to tell a story than a bunch of dialogue options and talking to Preston Garvey.

 

I agree with you on where Fallout 4 struggles from a storytelling perspective. I very much disagree with the original post and the idea that having a whole bunch of options fixes anything.

[Boombro]

 

Moral dilemma/grey areas enrich a story's depth, especially in games like the series Fallout.

You said this and didn't notice FO4 is more grey than fallout 3? Even more than FNV main quest factions that were black and white?

 

 

The Carbot House quest doesn't really have moral issue involved, because you're required to choose between a psycho old guy and his family which want to make use of him.

To you.

 

Moral dilemma is up to the RP and the players themselves. Let say morally I think the RR are just stealing robots and killed some of the INTS for no reasons that makes sense, so I have no problem killing them off.

Who says that old man is even crazy? That his son just wants to make use of him? Maybe the don't think that helm even works and jack is the crazy one for tapping his dad?

 

 

Name 2 F3 quests that makes people think? Tenpenny Tower and Arefu.

Hardly, the very clear answer to blood ties is to make the dudes defend Arefu expect if you were playing a bad guy or a law loving dude. Same goes for tenpenny, they always this clear answer, the only factor is to pick is based on your wanted RP.

 

 

Though honestly, neither F3 or F4 are good Fallouts anyways.

 

Hardly bothers me, fallout games are not that good after all. They are pretty much above average.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Boombro

[anbeegod]

I don't really have the energy right now to explain to you the vast world of using mechanics inside a game to tell a story, but I can give you a video to explain it to you.

 

 

Thinking that game decisions come down to menus and dialogue only is a very limiting mindset.

 

 

 

This is a game, the things you do define you as a character even more than the things you read.

 

 

I was not denying what you were trying to say. You can't disagree that not everything can be told by actions, right? Yes, actions usually speak louder than words, but not always.

 

My point is the same from the beginning - 4 options limit everything. No one knows or minds if you can make the story proceed within 4 options, but as long as the limitation stands there, we are not free, and the possibilities are truly limited.

[Boombro]

 

I was not denying what you were trying to say. You can't disagree that not everything can be told by actions, right? Yes, actions usually speak louder than words, but not always.

My point is the same from the beginning - 4 options limit everything. No one knows or minds if you can make the story proceed within 4 options, but as long as the limitation stands there, we are not free, and the possibilities are truly limited.

True, but we have to adopt to it and makes use of it.

 

Like:

Agree> different replies.

Rude> rude replies.

[TeamBacon]

 

I was not denying what you were trying to say. You can't disagree that not everything can be told by actions, right? Yes, actions usually speak louder than words, but not always.

 

My point is the same from the beginning - 4 options limit everything. No one knows or minds if you can make the story proceed within 4 options, but as long as the limitation stands there, we are not free, and the possibilities are truly limited.

 

 

Not everything can be told by actions, but yes, everything can be told by a combination of actions and 3 dialogue options. The 4th isn't even needed.

 

I have worked in enough videogame engines on enough different projects to know that we are never going to be truly free... That is just some grade school dream, like thinking you can grow up and be a famous actor.

[Boombro]

 

 

Not everything can be told by actions, but yes, everything can be told by a combination of actions and 3 dialogue options. The 4th isn't even needed.

True, even FNV don't throw more than 4 most of the time, even less than three.

[JTL2]

 

The Minutemen questline works as a fail-safe to complete the main quests in case you piss all other 3 factions off, just like the Yes-Man questline, as you can happily try and fail in making the fail-safe faction hate you. I agree that Preston Garvey should rot in the Glowing Sea though. "I want you to do everything while I chill at the Castle. Oh, you're the general aren't you? Tell you what, I'm the President."

 

Well, I don't really like that. The "fail-safe" should be to fail the quest and wander the wasteland. Besides, after you find Shaun:

You should be able to kill him, escape, and never go back; or join him/The Institute.

After that, what really is left of the main quest?

 

I guess, if you piss off every faction, you loose out on all those awesome radiant quests which let you grind to level 100.

 

I wanted to shoot Yes-Man in the face, take over the dam myself, and make myself king with an army of robots. Which basically is the Yes-Man quest, but his smiling face bothered me. I always felt he was hiding some nonferrous schemes behind that digital smile.

[TeamBacon]

 

 

The Minutemen questline works as a fail-safe to complete the main quests in case you piss all other 3 factions off, just like the Yes-Man questline, as you can happily try and fail in making the fail-safe faction hate you. I agree that Preston Garvey should rot in the Glowing Sea though. "I want you to do everything while I chill at the Castle. Oh, you're the general aren't you? Tell you what, I'm the President."

 

Well, I don't really like that. The "fail-safe" should be to fail the quest and wander the wasteland. Besides, after you find Shaun:

You should be able to kill him, escape, and never go back; or join him/The Institute.

After that, what really is left of the main quest?

 

I guess, if you piss off every faction, you loose out on all those awesome radiant quests which let you grind to level 100.

 

I wanted to shoot Yes-Man in the face, take over the dam myself, and make myself king with an army of robots. Which basically is the Yes-Man quest, but his smiling face bothered me. I always felt he was hiding some nonferrous schemes behind that digital smile.

 

 

The fail safe should be Kent Connoly giving you a way into the Institute and taking it down as the Silver Shroud by yourself.