Fallout 4 Creation Kit Beta info on bethsite

[BlackRoseOfThorns]

 

Your information is right, but it has nothing to do with what I was saying...

 

The point is, being passionate about making a good product and making money shouldn't be viewed as mutually exclusive things. People who make good stuff should be rewarded for it.

 

 

I was simply making a point about the false belief that the Creation Kit making TOS and Fallout better selling titles means that the developers only care about the money.

 

 

But hey, you can lecture me on the importance of having fresh fruit in my diet the next time I tell someone about the dangers of having low tread on their tires.

 

 

The point is general public will see a company only as money grabers or altruistic saviors. There is no middle ground here and with the restrictions I was talking about in most cases it's not doable for them to not get mud thrown at by media and consumers. That's the current reality. All we can do is point this over and over again, but we will never reach the average Joe that only reads PC magazines and believes in everything they say in the reviews. Even when you can clearly see how dependant the magazine is on paid commercial pages of well known studios or brands who view others in the same line of work as potential rivals. Sometimes a game will get a very poor review when it's simply too similar and interfers with release of other big title.

 

You read too much into my previous post and got some strange ideas.

[JTL2]

How many mods broke every time Bethesda uploaded a new patch? How many players using mods whined on the forums about how the latest patch broke their precious mod? How many mods (and mod plans) have to be changed/altered or are now irrelevant thanks to the new Survival Mode?

 

It seems obvious to me why it took so long to get the CK out to us. And quite frankly (since I had a "survival" type mod in the planning stages) I'm glad they waited. I've made mods for New Vegas and Skyrim before, and I can tell you, sometimes when you go into a make one simple change, it break all kinds of things. And worse, sometimes previous versions of your own mod aren't compatible.

 

So let the CK marinate in it's closed beta for a few more weeks. It just means than when I get my hands on it, it'll be shake and bake on the outset.

[BlackRoseOfThorns]

How many mods broke every time Bethesda uploaded a new patch? How many players using mods whined on the forums about how the latest patch broke their precious mod? How many mods (and mod plans) have to be changed/altered or are now irrelevant thanks to the new Survival Mode?

 

It seems obvious to me why it took so long to get the CK out to us. And quite frankly (since I had a "survival" type mod in the planning stages) I'm glad they waited.

 

I agree. Can't imagine proper CK testing and modding enviroment without having Survival Mode features up and running.

[PoliteRaider]

 

How many mods broke every time Bethesda uploaded a new patch? How many players using mods whined on the forums about how the latest patch broke their precious mod? How many mods (and mod plans) have to be changed/altered or are now irrelevant thanks to the new Survival Mode?

 

It seems obvious to me why it took so long to get the CK out to us. And quite frankly (since I had a "survival" type mod in the planning stages) I'm glad they waited.

 

I agree. Can't imagine proper CK testing and modding enviroment without having Survival Mode features up and running.

 

 

Actually I've been playing around with editing it and Survival Mode is surprisingly low-impact. It's much more 'mod' than it is patch or DLC. Almost all of the survival mode features are contained in just a couple of surprisingly simple papyrus scripts (and some .swf changes). I kept expecting to find a lot of survival mode being dependent on changes in the game's base code but there's practically nothing done within the game engine itself. Yes it adds a couple of global variables and a few new actor variables in the .esm, but that's the only changes they've made.

 

(Note: This is purely Survival mode as compared to the 1.5 beta, which DOES make changes but those changes aren't really linked to survival mode at all).

 

Not bringing this up to argue your points or anything, I'm glad they waited to give us a properly tested program as well but it wasn't really the Survival mode that made the impact.

Edited April 13, 2016 by PoliteRaider

[mac2636]

 

 

Bethesda is great.

Found the Bethdrone

 

Stay on denial all you want, but if you guys have at least a brain would know that this CK delay is absolutely bulls*** to milk one more dlc, there was people over this forum saying that this would happen, and guess what, It happened. Yet you guys still defend Todd and his lies, like, holy f***.

The CK is in private beta testing right now. It isn't artificially delayed.

 

They aren't just "allowing us" to mod their game, people mod any game, regardless of what the creators decide. They are actively helping us mod their game, absolutely for free, which I think is amazing on their part.

I don't think it's all that amazing. It's a huge benefit to gamers, absolutely. But modders are also an asset to Bethesda. If Bethesda didn't make money in the long run from releasing the CK/Geck, they wouldn't do it. It's a smart business move.

The amount of money that Bethesda has made, previously, from releasing the CK / GECK is probably a lot lower than we might think. As I showed earlier, the number of (Skyrim) PC users is very tiny compared to the number of console users. So the amount of money Beth could have gotten from mods adding to their bottom line is probably a smaller percentage of the total (Skyrim) PC userbase (around 3 million or so). That discrepancy is partly why we are seeing such a push by Bethesda to get mods on consoles and the whole paid modding fiasco last year - they, most likely, want to increase the number of gamers using mods and then figure out a way to charge for that (which is why they first tried the paid modding thing).

Might want to check with Todd Howard on whether mods contributed significantly to increased sales of Skyrim.

[Reneer]

Might want to check with Todd Howard on whether mods contributed significantly to increased sales of Skyrim.

Even if mods contributed 50% to (PC) Skyrim sales, that only means that (and I'm inflating the numbers) out of the 4 million Skyrim PC users, approximately 2 million were influenced to buy Skyrim because of mods. That's only 9% of total sales (23 million for both console and PC). So, again, mods don't matter as much to Bethesda's bottom line as people like to think they do. And I'm being quite generous with my math. Edited April 13, 2016 by Reneer

[isseymiyake]

Honestly, I feel like the world and the people and their entitled attitude is disgusting.

 

Do you like Fallout 4? Then you should be on your hands and knees with humbleness and appreciation that Bethesda exists at all and they made a game such as Fallout 4. Let alone that they are putting out a mod to allow the average Joe to make something really cool for their game.

 

Its like spending 7 years of your life building a classic hot rod, just the way you want it and then handing it over to a community center and saying "Do whatever you want and I'll pay for it."

 

That's incredibly generous and unselfish and staggeringly amazing for game developers to do.

couldn't agree more! i'm looking for "gardening" news several times a day - but im not going on about all sorts of irellevant crap - stick to the point! the game is awesome, i've played fallout since Fallout arrived 1st time - own em all in original shapes - i stuffed 75€ in a envelope when F4 was announced for the sole purpose of buying it! preordered it once it was possible!...

play the game - Honor the creator! Ad' Victorium!.... Oh, and yes, the brotherhood is the good guys! screw the screws outta the "robo-brains!" (maybe except for 2 wich i wont say here in case a new player aint got that far! ^^ )

 

Hail Elder Maxson! both the High Elder from Fallout 1 (John Maxson) and Fallout 4 (Arthur Maxson) -Last living descendant of "Roger Maxson, the 1st High Elder, and grandfather to John Maxson" just if any1 wanted a bit of Lore! :)

Edited April 13, 2016 by isseymiyake

[mac2636]

 

Might want to check with Todd Howard on whether mods contributed significantly to increased sales of Skyrim.

Even if mods contributed 50% to (PC) Skyrim sales, that only means that (and I'm inflating the numbers) out of the 4 million Skyrim PC users, approximately 2 million were influenced to buy Skyrim because of mods. That's only 9% of total sales (23 million for both console and PC). So, again, mods don't matter as much to Bethesda's bottom line as people like to think they do. And I'm being quite generous with my math.

Actually 9% growth in sales would be considered very significant by most companies. Also, 50% isn't necessarily "quite generous."

 

If it didn't add potential for significant increases in sales the leadership at Beth wouldn't have dedicated a significant amount of the company's resources to being modding to consoles.

 

Quote from Howard himself.

Skyrim did better than weve ever done on PC by a large, large number. And thats where the mods are. That feeds the game for a long time."

 

Do you really think you're more knowledgeable about the company's sales performance than Howard and the current leadership team?

[Moksha8088]

 

 

 

The point is general public will see a company only as money grabers or altruistic saviors.

Wonder if how vigorously and thoroughly the money is grabbed might affect that perception? No one begrudges Bethesda for selling good games. It does concern me however if Bethesda sought to corner the market on mod sales via their final release creation kit EULA. Forking over money for something as awesome as mods from Someguy2000, Kris Takahashi, LlamaRCA, Arthmoor, and the legendary Djmystro would be no brainers if priced reasonably. Heck, the parents of young console players might be willing to fork over a bit more if it keeps the kids happy and out of mischief.

 

(BTW, will Bethesda.net have summer sales on these mods?)

Edited April 14, 2016 by Moksha8088

[Reneer]

Actually 9% growth in sales would be considered very significant by most companies. Also, 50% isn't necessarily "quite generous."

 

If it didn't add potential for significant increases in sales the leadership at Beth wouldn't have dedicated a significant amount of the company's resources to being modding to consoles.

 

Quote from Howard himself.

Skyrim did better than weve ever done on PC by a large, large number. And thats where the mods are. That feeds the game for a long time."

 

Do you really think you're more knowledgeable about the company's sales performance than Howard and the current leadership team?

Let's get one or two things straight here.

 

1. Bethesda is devoting a lot of time, money and energy towards bringing mods to consoles because, surprise, they are eventually going to monetize player-made mods. Maybe not with Fallout 4, but further down the line they will be revisiting paid mods. Will bringing mods to consoles boost sales? Likely, yes. But monetizing them will produce an even bigger return on investment.

 

2. In order to make the most return-on-investment on paid mods, they will want to control as much of the process as they can. Thus, Bethesda.Net was born. This cuts out the middleman (Steam / Valve) and puts Bethesda into a much better position to control how everything works.

 

3. That quote from Todd Howard says absolutely nothing about how mods did or did not impact Skyrim PC sales. It simply says that Skyrim did better in terms of PC sales than Oblivion did. Which did better than Morrowind. Which did better than Daggerfall. If anything, Todd is making a claim without any evidence - he is assuming that Skyrim did better than Oblivion on the PC because of mods. There is no way to know whether that claim is true or not, short of polling a vast majority of Skyrim PC players.

 

4. We could just as easily attribute any "rise" in Skyrim PC sales (compared to Oblivion PC sales) to the aging of the Xbox 360 and the PS3. By the time Skyrim was released in November of 2011, the Xbox 360 was already six years old. It was already showing its age at that point in time.

 

5. Mods are a source of revenue for Bethesda. They just are not the end-all-be-all source of revenue. If mods were a necessary component to Bethesda's success, you would not see the immense difference in sales numbers between PC sales (which have mods) and console sales (which do not have mods), at least from a historical / Skyrim perspective.

 

5. I'm certainly not more knowledgeable in the sales performance of Bethesda than the people in the actual company. But then again, neither are you. All I'm doing is applying some simple math to the sales numbers.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Reneer