Male or Female PC? How come?

[Signette]

 

i actually think that this whole issue about less female gamers is mostly because of the prejudices on the female side. Females are usually a lot more concerned than males about what society thinks about them and how people perceive them. And in most mainstream media gaming is depicted as something childish nerdy time wasting antisocial ridiculous boyish stuff and is set as the opposite of the ideal female (pretty, sexy, cute, naive, a bit dumb, needs help from males) and male (strong, sporty, romantic, popular, has some nice career, has sex with a lot of hot women) depicted by the mainstream media. Sadly the biggest fear of a lot of females is being not accepted by the society that surrounds them, and even more sadly the avereage person kinda believes what they see in the media, and as long as gaming is depicted as something undesirable, it is hard to change that mindset.

 

What i dont understand that gaming is a huge business with a lot of money in it, why don't they try harder to change this?

 

Huh, "slutmakeup" was a bit harsh, i meant that they made her a makeup more fitting for someone on a photoshoot than for a soldier. Now they show the default fem in the trailer with an acceptable makeup and she looks kinda pretty but i can believe she is a soldier.

Also they admitted that they named the main character after some famous american female astronaut (maybe the first one).

The main problem here is that this kind of person: (pretty, sexy, cute, naive, a bit dumb, needs help from males) and this: (strong, sporty, romantic, popular, has some nice career, has sex with a lot of hot women) doesn't walk the earth. I mean separately, sure, but all-in-one pack? Isn't it little too much if females really trying to be some crazy fairytale or show/movie characters?... This is all too weird, because by society, yes, gaming is really considered "childish nerdy time wasting antisocial ridiculous boyish stuff", but still, most dudes don't care, not trying to be fairies and enjoy themselves. What you say makes me so sad...

 

Maybe big corps are just afraid to go for risks and lose potential clients who wants stuff they've been doing for ages, but indie market is pretty big now too, and has a lot of hype, but you will rarely see some game which may interest both genders, but it's almost non-existent to see something made purely for female pop. That's strange...

 

And yeah, I checked trailer and kinda see what you mean, it's nice change, no argument here.

 

 

Abut playing as the opposite gender, to be honest i can't really tell even to myself what is the main thing why i enjoy it more as a male roleplayer. i just guess it is because of the novelty and the challenge. If i had to live my real life in a male body from now on, i guess i would consider killing myself (all my simpathy goes to the transgender community). I guess it is about experiencing life from a males point of wiew, with a male mindset, something like acting. And yes, it is challenging sometimes.

Heh, it is hard to resist not to do screenshots in skyrim, since it looks so damn epic. I do have a few them, but they are mostly scenery, sometimes with my characters placed in action somwhere on them so they have a story too (and if i remeber correctly i have a screens showing the naked grey butt of my dark elf while thaking a bath near riverwood). But really not a lot, i made them when i installed some fancy environment mods. Also, now that i think about it, i even had some pics from mass effect because i thought that my male char looked so much better that the default male (he didn't) and i was proud of myself :smile: So mostly i drool over how awesome i am for making such an epic stuff :smile: But those where a while ago, now i only sometimes make screens for my mods.

Well, asari look almost like human, and a sexy hot female human especially (which is stupid and immersion breaking imho). Not only ther looks but their shallow fan-service racial traits make them poular sex-dreams (they are bisexual and promiscuous). There are "sicker" stuff in there. With my female i actually did the Garrus romance plot :D I only did that because he was the most interesting character to pick from the love interests imho (and i liked the buddies to lovers storyline). And i didn't have the slightest sexual interest (only my character did :smile: ), but he has a massive female fanbase. And he looks like the lovechild of a chicken and a deathclaw.

Also pixel people can't attract me either, and i'll never get it, but many people managed to "relieve themself" to lara croft from the first tomb raider. She literally had triangles for boobs. I guess that the pixel beauty is in their control and that the player is in charge in every way makes them somehow more attractive. But it is just a guess.

Ya know, being male isn't that bad, so you don't have to kill yourself... but honestly, if I would turn female right now and would have to live like this, I would probs kill myself too, so I'm with you on this one. :tongue:

To be serious, it's interesting things you say. You probably understand that you have no idea how male brain functions, what our real thoughts and desires are, same as any male would never understand opposite in depth. But curiosity is there, and I bet many ppl (myself included) are interested in this kind of subject. Game (built by males generally and for males mostly) may be some kind of prism to experience it, I can see that, but personally for me, level of discomfort wins over by huge margin. And also there's a small part indicating lost cause, because it's impossible to reach any kind of understanding through this "prism" IMO, too abstract.

 

Oh, I thought I was the only one bathing my characters lol... And yeah, I had huge collection of cool screens from Morrowind to Oblivion to Skyrim once, than it was purged with careless format C:/

 

To be honest, I think alien design done by Bioware is pretty good, it's not so awkward as Star Wars or StarTrek (forgive me fans) but their ridiculous sexual applications to aliens goes a bit overboard. And it may come as a shock, but in fact very few males are attracted by promiscuous females, there's actually very unpleasant definition for them... And from what I know, fanbase is divided by most favorite romance characters this way: Most girls prefer - Garrus, most boys prefer (surprise!) - Tali. And coming to the first question, according to this, there's still something wrong in stereotypes, don't you agree? I mean Garrus obviously isn't (strong, sporty, romantic, popular, has some nice career, has sex with a lot of hot women), in fact he's pretty shy guy, maybe strong, or rather good shot, but that's it, and as you said: "lovechild of a chicken and a deathclaw", which is pretty much true. So, how come?

 

 

I am not an anime fan either, and i know that not all of them are like that, but it seems kind of a standard in animes to have at least one child looking adult female character. and it is so pathetic how they try to make it look legit, like "she is a 10000 years old fairy".

The fact that the child anime beauty is getting mainstream is problematic for two reasons. The first one, that i've already mentioned, it legitimizes pedophilia. "It is in this popular cartoon, so it is not that wrong, is it?" The other problem is, that this is becoming beauty standard, like porn actresses and then fashion models did, those young stupid males grow up on these thinking that this is what they need and desire and what they are entitled to. So they find out that real women act like adults, look like adults, have normal human proportions, they age, their boobs are not melon sized and don't bounce when they breathe, and their eyeballs fit into their skull, so these boys become disappointed and bitter and have a real hard time to get into a normal relationship. I think most of them gets over it after a certain age, but sometimes it happens at a higher age than accaptable (like 30 instead of 16)

(and yes, most of those mods are based on japanese anime culture)

 

-snip-

Hah, you really make some epic posts sometimes, do you write? If not, you should, definitely (seriously).

On subject, well, I'm not so sure, maybe it's really connected to Japanese people specifics? I doubt their entire modern culture is basically promotes pedophilia and everyone are in that sort of thing... That's crazy thing to consider, I mean look at their females. They are generally small, rarely have ordinary euro/slavic women features and maybe it's me, but I could never tell their age. It is pretty scary how our culture takes it in, and those applications you mention are pretty much the case, yeah... It's just too weird, honestly - I don't get it. And considering what you say about males, and how they perceive this... well, it may be true for VERY small percentage of truly stupid and completely retarded individuals, but real issue is a lot deeper, believe me. I don't think it would be really good idea to dive into it though.

 

Considering dialogues, I personally prefer text only WAY over voiced ones, always did. Not only they are more complicated and interesting, but also very immersive as practice shows. And I don't think Beth don't have talented writers, I believe they just avoid them, It's obvious where they are pushing their games, so I don't think they would generally need good writing. It will only drive off their new fanbase along with new potential fans. And yes, I see endings and plot much like you describe it, no matter how sad it may sound.

 

About mod thefts, case is still going, would be curious to see how (if) this will be solved.

 

For a second I though I was looking at FO4 mods, huh. Very high quality textures, good job overall and mainly very lore friendly. Yeah, I'm not much into dressing up, but some of those outfits could be good addition in my collection. Thanks for the links.

[hagyjalbeken]

 

The main problem here is that this kind of person: (pretty, sexy, cute, naive, a bit dumb, needs help from males) and this: (strong, sporty, romantic, popular, has some nice career, has sex with a lot of hot women) doesn't walk the earth. I mean separately, sure, but all-in-one pack? Isn't it little too much if females really trying to be some crazy fairytale or show/movie characters?... This is all too weird, because by society, yes, gaming is really considered "childish nerdy time wasting antisocial ridiculous boyish stuff", but still, most dudes don't care, not trying to be fairies and enjoy themselves. What you say makes me so sad...

 

Maybe big corps are just afraid to go for risks and lose potential clients who wants stuff they've been doing for ages, but indie market is pretty big now too, and has a lot of hype, but you will rarely see some game which may interest both genders, but it's almost non-existent to see something made purely for female pop. That's strange...

 

And yeah, I checked trailer and kinda see what you mean, it's nice change, no argument here.

 

 

Of course these ideals are unrealistic and unreachable, but that is the point of commercialism, media sets incredibly high standards and they make you think you can reach it through consuming products. Also the whole thing happens mostly on a subconcious level so it more or less affects everyone, even intelligent people who are aware of the harmfulness of advertisements. The whole mass media is one giant advertisement for consuming. It affects males the same amount it does females, just a different way, it doesnt revolve around males looks, social behaviours and habits, it is more like they are made to believe they have to be super successful and get rich and famous to be considered a human being. I think that the gamer stereotype is depicted as less confilcting with this male idol picture than with the female (possibly because of the competitive nature of gaming).

Also there are certain genres, like football games and some shooters, that are shown as more common and less nerdy for guys, but only for guys. (f.e. if you play fifa or call of duty you can still be "cool" as a guy)

Also i think it is a bigger "shame" for a female to be considered "boyish" than a male, so maybe also that is why males care less about negative gaming stereotypes.

But i do hope that big game devs and indies both slowly discover the potential female base, so they might do something abut the nerdy boy gamer stereotype, and the gap will be smaller. But there will always be more males.

That is why i tend to bring up mass effect, that series seems to accept females as potential fans of the frachise more and more imho.

What i dont undertand is that how and why gaming became considered as it is now in the first place.

 

 

 

Ya know, being male isn't that bad, so you don't have to kill yourself... but honestly, if I would turn female right now and would have to live like this, I would probs kill myself too, so I'm with you on this one. :tongue:

To be serious, it's interesting things you say. You probably understand that you have no idea how male brain functions, what our real thoughts and desires are, same as any male would never understand opposite in depth. But curiosity is there, and I bet many ppl (myself included) are interested in this kind of subject. Game (built by males generally and for males mostly) may be some kind of prism to experience it, I can see that, but personally for me, level of discomfort wins over by huge margin. And also there's a small part indicating lost cause, because it's impossible to reach any kind of understanding through this "prism" IMO, too abstract.

 

Oh, I thought I was the only one bathing my characters lol... And yeah, I had huge collection of cool screens from Morrowind to Oblivion to Skyrim once, than it was purged with careless format C:/

 

To be honest, I think alien design done by Bioware is pretty good, it's not so awkward as Star Wars or StarTrek (forgive me fans) but their ridiculous sexual applications to aliens goes a bit overboard. And it may come as a shock, but in fact very few males are attracted by promiscuous females, there's actually very unpleasant definition for them... And from what I know, fanbase is divided by most favorite romance characters this way: Most girls prefer - Garrus, most boys prefer (surprise!) - Tali. And coming to the first question, according to this, there's still something wrong in stereotypes, don't you agree? I mean Garrus obviously isn't (strong, sporty, romantic, popular, has some nice career, has sex with a lot of hot women), in fact he's pretty shy guy, maybe strong, or rather good shot, but that's it, and as you said: "lovechild of a chicken and a deathclaw", which is pretty much true. So, how come?

 

 

I'm not looking for understanding males through roleplaying, it is clear that i wont be able to do that without a male brain in my head :) . But the same thing goes when i roleplay as a female thief or assassin or even a reckless adrenaline junkie adventurer who doesnt mind going into dungeons killing bandits for loot, i dont think i can truly understand the real life motivations and desires of such a person. But i can try to imagine and figure out from books or movies or another games and of course real life experience. And i find challenging and fun and satisfying if i feel that i made that character believeable and interesting. Maybe i pick males because this challenge is the biggest with them.

Another reason i guess i'm a bit like an author when i roleplay, like i write his personal story while i am playing, and for some reason i can get more creative with a male character, maybe because my own personal preferences dont give me that many boundaries.

i think you might feel discomfort as a female because you approach roleplaying differently than me, but most people do, they think of the character of an avatar of themselves, at least a little bit, but i don't, i try to fully separate myself from the character, but that is not the common approach. I think males who play as females either approach it as i do, or at least similar, or they do it for the sexuality, maybe both. And neither of the playstyles are good or bad, if it is only about your sexual desires it is kinda pathetic though, but as long as you enjoy and dont harm others, there is nothing to judge.

 

I agree about bioware alien design, the only problematic race is asari imho, no way they can look so human and be sexy for every race, and there are theories and one drunk background conversation at a club that says every race perceives them differently, so they look more closely to one of them, but many texts and happenings and the game mechanics show that it is not so. So they sacrificed believeability for teen male desires.

I know that Tali is the most popular with the fans. And if you think of Liara, who is the second most popular, she may look cute-ish, but she isnt sexyfied either, mostly shy (at least with romance), she doesn't dress revealing, and her romance plot is interesting and kinda romantic. So those romance plots might drive teen boys in with the opportunity of space sex, but their main function is mostly to give the franchise a bigger dedicated hardcore fanbase with the possibility of fan fictions and head canon etc, not actual literal sexual attraction. The Garrus romance fits into this well, even more so that he is for females, who are a lot less interested in looks and more in personality, and even though he is shy in love life, he is generally "badass", and shyness makes that even more "sexy".

But i am sure that the presence the asari race in general is more for the young casual gamers, and they did their job as a bait for teen boys well i think, and there are booby asari everywhere and the game keeps reminding you how sexy and promiscuous they are supposed to be.

 

 

 

Hah, you really make some epic posts sometimes, do you write? If not, you should, definitely (seriously).

On subject, well, I'm not so sure, maybe it's really connected to Japanese people specifics? I doubt their entire modern culture is basically promotes pedophilia and everyone are in that sort of thing... That's crazy thing to consider, I mean look at their females. They are generally small, rarely have ordinary euro/slavic women features and maybe it's me, but I could never tell their age. It is pretty scary how our culture takes it in, and those applications you mention are pretty much the case, yeah... It's just too weird, honestly - I don't get it. And considering what you say about males, and how they perceive this... well, it may be true for VERY small percentage of truly stupid and completely retarded individuals, but real issue is a lot deeper, believe me. I don't think it would be really good idea to dive into it though.

 

Considering dialogues, I personally prefer text only WAY over voiced ones, always did. Not only they are more complicated and interesting, but also very immersive as practice shows. And I don't think Beth don't have talented writers, I believe they just avoid them, It's obvious where they are pushing their games, so I don't think they would generally need good writing. It will only drive off their new fanbase along with new potential fans. And yes, I see endings and plot much like you describe it, no matter how sad it may sound.

 

About mod thefts, case is still going, would be curious to see how (if) this will be solved.

 

For a second I though I was looking at FO4 mods, huh. Very high quality textures, good job overall and mainly very lore friendly. Yeah, I'm not much into dressing up, but some of those outfits could be good addition in my collection. Thanks for the links.

 

 

Believe me, it is not that small percentage of males, it is not common though, and i am sorry that i seemed to generalize, but below a certain age and experience i can say it is a trend. Not anime child loving, but preferring what media tries to push down your throat as desireable. And since anime is gaining poularity, and presents those childlike abominations as the sexiest thing, that is what they will look for. Why aninme as a whole genre is getting so popular is beyond me, as far as i know most series or films have a completely different style and storyline, some of them have purposely ugly drawings, some of them look beautiful, the only thing i see many of these have in common is the little girl beauty standard, which i doubt is enough for it to gain popularity (even with many females). I could understand if a few of them were popular with different groups and some of them widely, but the fact that most fans, while having a fav genre, like almost all of them at once, and they are getting more and more popular widespread, is a mistery. But we really should drop this topic because a hardcore fan soon will show up to the smell of anime criticising, and they can get more offended than a catholic priest from the sight of a burning bible.

 

About dialogues, i do prefer it written too. Mainly because i can relate more to my imagination while still staying immersed in the story.

I dont see why a better fleshed out story would aliente any new fans. I am not talking about more complex choices, i see why that can be sadly troublesome with a certain audience, and it is a pity that it is less common, but that is what happens if you try to appeal to a huge audience. i am talking about... well, an example, oblivion ending. At that point, the problem wasn't (only) that you didn't have complex choices and consequences. For example, the forced predictable and absolutely avoidable sacrifice of the main character, i mean being like 5 minutes late for lighting up those dumb fires just because little martin and friends, who kept rushing you in panic for all the other parts of the game, decided to play politician and check in with the nonexistent council instead of logically and reasonably getting to the temple asap. Because, according to little martin, that chancellor guy, whose only deed in the darkest hours of the empire was sending the council home when they were needed the most, and not giving a sorry-ass soldier to protect the only person who can save the world when there are more guards than civilians in the city, deserves that much. Also what happens after the ending outro is ridiculous, i mean a giant red monster god and some guy turned into a golden dragon just did a waltz in front of the whole imperial city, stomping half of the citizens flat, almost ending the world, and everyones immediate reaction was a big fat nothing. No, wait, that mentally challenged chancellor potato gives you a cookie... erm, armor, with a dumb and terribly voice acted speech, yay. The whole story is like that though, i just wanted to give an example of what they did badly not because of the lack of choices or dialogue lines or depth but simple laziness.

(and i do have an idea of a better ending, but that would be five more columns...)

 

If you decide to use one of my mods, have fun, and i hope you'll like it :) ( i did go for lore-friendly with most of them, so thanks)

[Signette]

 

Of course these ideals are unrealistic and unreachable, but that is the point of commercialism, media sets incredibly high standards and they make you think you can reach it through consuming products. Also the whole thing happens mostly on a subconcious level so it more or less affects everyone, even intelligent people who are aware of the harmfulness of advertisements. The whole mass media is one giant advertisement for consuming. It affects males the same amount it does females, just a different way, it doesnt revolve around males looks, social behaviours and habits, it is more like they are made to believe they have to be super successful and get rich and famous to be considered a human being. I think that the gamer stereotype is depicted as less confilcting with this male idol picture than with the female (possibly because of the competitive nature of gaming).

Also there are certain genres, like football games and some shooters, that are shown as more common and less nerdy for guys, but only for guys. (f.e. if you play fifa or call of duty you can still be "cool" as a guy)

Also i think it is a bigger "shame" for a female to be considered "boyish" than a male, so maybe also that is why males care less about negative gaming stereotypes.

But i do hope that big game devs and indies both slowly discover the potential female base, so they might do something abut the nerdy boy gamer stereotype, and the gap will be smaller. But there will always be more males.

That is why i tend to bring up mass effect, that series seems to accept females as potential fans of the frachise more and more imho.

What i dont undertand is that how and why gaming became considered as it is now in the first place.

I'm not sure the modern media is the culprit here. There always were unreachable and unrealistic standards for both looks and especially wealth. In every semi-civilized society, if you are wealthy than you are worthy to be called a human being, otherwise you are dirt under the boots. Nothing really changes, it will always be like that I think. Considering gaming, to depict this in a big picture - it's just the same way of pastime or entertainment as books, theater, music, movies. I simply don't understand why it got such, I dunno, non-standard meaning? Never heard women reading books, listening music, or watching something, even sports like football if you want, got criticized for those activities. As for Call of Duty, that was funny, "cool"? I don't know... those series have big rep of being rather for mentally retarded, and I'm sure you pretty much aware of why, heh.

 

And as you keep bringing this up, from what you say, looks like media is really pushing gaming as "boyish", which is completely illogical by any account, and any female can ask herself, why is it may be "boyish"? I'm sure non will find any intelligible answer for it. In my opinion, main problem is specific individual mind, rather than stereotypes. It's very good that EA pushing fem audience, and that might be few steps in the right direction, but this still won't get them anywhere anytime soon. Most girls will still be locked up in those stupid "for females" boundaries, and they won't be discovering what gaming world has to offer. ME or DA aren't bad games, but those aren't good either. I'm really sorry about females who haven't really looked farther than that and some Beth/other EA titles...

 

 

 

I'm not looking for understanding males through roleplaying, it is clear that i wont be able to do that without a male brain in my head :smile: . But the same thing goes when i roleplay as a female thief or assassin or even a reckless adrenaline junkie adventurer who doesnt mind going into dungeons killing bandits for loot, i dont think i can truly understand the real life motivations and desires of such a person. But i can try to imagine and figure out from books or movies or another games and of course real life experience. And i find challenging and fun and satisfying if i feel that i made that character believeable and interesting. Maybe i pick males because this challenge is the biggest with them.

Another reason i guess i'm a bit like an author when i roleplay, like i write his personal story while i am playing, and for some reason i can get more creative with a male character, maybe because my own personal preferences dont give me that many boundaries.

i think you might feel discomfort as a female because you approach roleplaying differently than me, but most people do, they think of the character of an avatar of themselves, at least a little bit, but i don't, i try to fully separate myself from the character, but that is not the common approach. I think males who play as females either approach it as i do, or at least similar, or they do it for the sexuality, maybe both. And neither of the playstyles are good or bad, if it is only about your sexual desires it is kinda pathetic though, but as long as you enjoy and dont harm others, there is nothing to judge.

 

I agree about bioware alien design, the only problematic race is asari imho, no way they can look so human and be sexy for every race, and there are theories and one drunk background conversation at a club that says every race perceives them differently, so they look more closely to one of them, but many texts and happenings and the game mechanics show that it is not so. So they sacrificed believeability for teen male desires.

I know that Tali is the most popular with the fans. And if you think of Liara, who is the second most popular, she may look cute-ish, but she isnt sexyfied either, mostly shy (at least with romance), she doesn't dress revealing, and her romance plot is interesting and kinda romantic. So those romance plots might drive teen boys in with the opportunity of space sex, but their main function is mostly to give the franchise a bigger dedicated hardcore fanbase with the possibility of fan fictions and head canon etc, not actual literal sexual attraction. The Garrus romance fits into this well, even more so that he is for females, who are a lot less interested in looks and more in personality, and even though he is shy in love life, he is generally "badass", and shyness makes that even more "sexy".

But i am sure that the presence the asari race in general is more for the young casual gamers, and they did their job as a bait for teen boys well i think, and there are booby asari everywhere and the game keeps reminding you how sexy and promiscuous they are supposed to be.

Huh, some pretty interesting philosophical ideas here. You say you detach character from your own personality and try to relieve it as abstract experience, I can't quite understand it. Stuff I do in games are usually stuff I cannot do in real life but I gladly would, it's some kind of reliving your real self, not bounded by social and law enforcement boundaries. If we forget about obvious stuff like we don't live in fantasy world, when I go on killing spree, robbery, insulting and screwing with NPCs, the only thing stopping me from doing this in real life is that I could get killed or in prison, nothing else. I dunno, maybe I'm psychopath, but I think lots of people see it the way I do. Don't you ever perceive games like I described? Of course there are also some more heroic deeds I enjoy to commit in games, but that feeling, so you can cut the head off from any annoying person is like complete, unlimited freedom we lack so much in our daily life. I dunno how ppl restrained themselves from crimes when games weren't around (jk... kinda :tongue:).

 

Going back to ME, it's actually pretty curious. I'm probably too old fashioned or thick in the head to develop some real sexual attraction by blue tentacled thingies very distantly reminding of a woman, but looking at ME fans I must be in huge minority here. That means looks aren't that important as media trying to present it, right? In entire Asari context it really looks silly, but Liara or Tali are pretty good personalities from what I can judge, if some boys like them not only for boobs, that isn't that bad IMO. To be honest it's hard for me to judge it properly, not big fan of romances in games, so my theories are mostly based of what little I've seen and heard about those interactions. Also I don't get all this hate towards Cortez, he seemed like a pretty good guy to me, if a little too soft (cried a lot).

 

 

 

Believe me, it is not that small percentage of males, it is not common though, and i am sorry that i seemed to generalize, but below a certain age and experience i can say it is a trend. Not anime child loving, but preferring what media tries to push down your throat as desireable. And since anime is gaining poularity, and presents those childlike abominations as the sexiest thing, that is what they will look for. Why aninme as a whole genre is getting so popular is beyond me, as far as i know most series or films have a completely different style and storyline, some of them have purposely ugly drawings, some of them look beautiful, the only thing i see many of these have in common is the little girl beauty standard, which i doubt is enough for it to gain popularity (even with many females). I could understand if a few of them were popular with different groups and some of them widely, but the fact that most fans, while having a fav genre, like almost all of them at once, and they are getting more and more popular widespread, is a mistery. But we really should drop this topic because a hardcore fan soon will show up to the smell of anime criticising, and they can get more offended than a catholic priest from the sight of a burning bible.

 

About dialogues, i do prefer it written too. Mainly because i can relate more to my imagination while still staying immersed in the story.

I dont see why a better fleshed out story would aliente any new fans. I am not talking about more complex choices, i see why that can be sadly troublesome with a certain audience, and it is a pity that it is less common, but that is what happens if you try to appeal to a huge audience. i am talking about... well, an example, oblivion ending. At that point, the problem wasn't (only) that you didn't have complex choices and consequences. For example, the forced predictable and absolutely avoidable sacrifice of the main character, i mean being like 5 minutes late for lighting up those dumb fires just because little martin and friends, who kept rushing you in panic for all the other parts of the game, decided to play politician and check in with the nonexistent council instead of logically and reasonably getting to the temple asap. Because, according to little martin, that chancellor guy, whose only deed in the darkest hours of the empire was sending the council home when they were needed the most, and not giving a sorry-ass soldier to protect the only person who can save the world when there are more guards than civilians in the city, deserves that much. Also what happens after the ending outro is ridiculous, i mean a giant red monster god and some guy turned into a golden dragon just did a waltz in front of the whole imperial city, stomping half of the citizens flat, almost ending the world, and everyones immediate reaction was a big fat nothing. No, wait, that mentally challenged chancellor potato gives you a cookie... erm, armor, with a dumb and terribly voice acted speech, yay. The whole story is like that though, i just wanted to give an example of what they did badly not because of the lack of choices or dialogue lines or depth but simple laziness.

(and i do have an idea of a better ending, but that would be five more columns...)

 

If you decide to use one of my mods, have fun, and i hope you'll like it :smile: ( i did go for lore-friendly with most of them, so thanks)

Below a certain age girls think that they will meet a knight on the white horse in shining armor who will they marry with at once and live long and happy life. When they grow up, they meet a real, flesh and blood man, and it's like entire world crumbling on their heads. Some remain in this fantasy world for pretty long time, waiting for this fairy tale prince who will save them... Won't go too deep in the psychology, but beyond certain age, both boys and girls views are far from reality, and either of them usually change, and start looking at thing in more realistic manner. If not, than it's not entirely normal person, and there can be little done to help them. I don't talk about some sexual deviations person might have, since it's completely different story, and from what I've seen, media has absolutely no connection to it, so I'm not sure what are you referring to. Maybe I just don't clearly see your point, and if so may you elaborate a bit more on this?

 

And considering anime, I would actually be glad if some fanboy (or fangirl) would appear here, because maybe they'll say something we both don't see about it? I'm pretty curious why it is getting so popular too, and why pretty much grown men and women are chasing pokemons in the streets right now.

 

That's curious you mentioned "immersion", I actually can't get immersed well in heavily written RPGs, I enjoy it more like some kind of interactive book with choices, and I only prefer written over voiced because of sheer number of content you get. Voicing with current technology level is way too limited, and considering immersion itself, that would be my 5 columns, so not sure it's worth discussing here.

Though I completely agree on lazyness, in Oblivion, and FO3 with Skyrim suffers from it too, but that's the entire point. Those games aren't supposed to have deep stories and interesting events/endings, those more like huge sandboxes with mediocre script as some kind of a bait or demo for players to be drawn in. Anyway, that's how I see it, so you can freely dispute that. :wink:

 

On FNV mods, I do like it, thanks. Though I gotta little question, I'll ask in PM not to flood here, if that's ok.

Edited August 4, 2016 by Signette

[skubblebubble]

I play both, but, if I have to stare at the ass end of a toon, well, I'm gonna make it female, and shapely. (wiggly, cuddly... I better stop now)

:))

 

I'm a guy. beef, beer, babe, bazookas.

we be good.

:P

[hagyjalbeken]

 

I'm not sure the modern media is the culprit here. There always were unreachable and unrealistic standards for both looks and especially wealth. In every semi-civilized society, if you are wealthy than you are worthy to be called a human being, otherwise you are dirt under the boots. Nothing really changes, it will always be like that I think. Considering gaming, to depict this in a big picture - it's just the same way of pastime or entertainment as books, theater, music, movies. I simply don't understand why it got such, I dunno, non-standard meaning? Never heard women reading books, listening music, or watching something, even sports like football if you want, got criticized for those activities. As for Call of Duty, that was funny, "cool"? I don't know... those series have big rep of being rather for mentally retarded, and I'm sure you pretty much aware of why, heh.

 

And as you keep bringing this up, from what you say, looks like media is really pushing gaming as "boyish", which is completely illogical by any account, and any female can ask herself, why is it may be "boyish"? I'm sure non will find any intelligible answer for it. In my opinion, main problem is specific individual mind, rather than stereotypes. It's very good that EA pushing fem audience, and that might be few steps in the right direction, but this still won't get them anywhere anytime soon. Most girls will still be locked up in those stupid "for females" boundaries, and they won't be discovering what gaming world has to offer. ME or DA aren't bad games, but those aren't good either. I'm really sorry about females who haven't really looked farther than that and some Beth/other EA titles...

 

Well, it is not modern media that started these idols for sure, and they have always been in the human culture in some form, but today these stereotypes are maintained and enforceed through mass media. And i am mad at mass medfia because it has all the possibilites and resources to finally erase all this bullsh* that has been present in human history for too long, but instead it strenghtens it more. The "culprit" is greed i think, but it goes more deep and complicated here... Sometimes i feel like you think the majority of people is individually developed, self concious and strong minded enough to separate themselves from these social stereotypes, but in my experience this is not the case. (I think i just called the majority of people dumb, i am tired, sorry). Also you say most people think call of duty is retarded.. well, sales say completely otherwise... it is the biggest cash grab. so it is clearly not a small circle of mentally handicapped nerdboys who are spending their money on it.

But we talk about gaming especially. I think we can agree that it is mass media that keeps putting gaming into this stupid boyish geeky category, and we both find it weird and not understandable why it happens, how it started, and why it is so slowly changing. I totally agree that it doesn't make sense why it is so, but as long as it doesn't change, i don't expect to see many more female gamers. I see that gaming isnt different from reading, but i also see that females are being constantly shamed for playing games.

And i think that ME, DA and Beth games are not only good, but great games (even with their huge flaws), there are indeed tons of other great and even better games that are compltley overlooked by females.

 

 

 

Huh, some pretty interesting philosophical ideas here. You say you detach character from your own personality and try to relieve it as abstract experience, I can't quite understand it. Stuff I do in games are usually stuff I cannot do in real life but I gladly would, it's some kind of reliving your real self, not bounded by social and law enforcement boundaries. If we forget about obvious stuff like we don't live in fantasy world, when I go on killing spree, robbery, insulting and screwing with NPCs, the only thing stopping me from doing this in real life is that I could get killed or in prison, nothing else. I dunno, maybe I'm psychopath, but I think lots of people see it the way I do. Don't you ever perceive games like I described? Of course there are also some more heroic deeds I enjoy to commit in games, but that feeling, so you can cut the head off from any annoying person is like complete, unlimited freedom we lack so much in our daily life. I dunno how ppl restrained themselves from crimes when games weren't around (jk... kinda :tongue:).

 

Going back to ME, it's actually pretty curious. I'm probably too old fashioned or thick in the head to develop some real sexual attraction by blue tentacled thingies very distantly reminding of a woman, but looking at ME fans I must be in huge minority here. That means looks aren't that important as media trying to present it, right? In entire Asari context it really looks silly, but Liara or Tali are pretty good personalities from what I can judge, if some boys like them not only for boobs, that isn't that bad IMO. To be honest it's hard for me to judge it properly, not big fan of romances in games, so my theories are mostly based of what little I've seen and heard about those interactions. Also I don't get all this hate towards Cortez, he seemed like a pretty good guy to me, if a little too soft (cried a lot).

 

 

Yeah that is what i meant as the "different approach", what most people play these games as. Like an avatar of yourself, that can do what you can't and don't want to in reality because of shame or social acceptance or punishment or morals or simply because there are no dragons (Also you are not mentally disabled and have the ability do distinguish between reality and virtual world). You say you might be psycho but i think that is quite normal. It is just human nature. I do that too, but it is a bit different, like i said, as i was writng a book, the characters main purpose isn't to experiece things i can't but to develop their own story, but i actually actively do the things they do, it is me who pushes the button, so it is impossible not to live with the character, and that is how i want it. Also i don't think book authors are completely detached from thier characters, they are pretty much attached, just a different way. Not that i am a book author, but there are many similarities. Well, there is this character, i am making up his story, the game gives the background, but it has still popped out of my own head. There are reasons why i find that story interesting. Also f. e. when i blow up an annoying npc, it is because it makes my characters story more developed, but i still do enjoy it :) (Again, i am only talking about rpgs or games with significant rpg elements, i guess i play other games like everyone else)

 

As i said, asari are pretty close to hot human female, they look like a chick with an "ideal" body shape, they're just blue and have the weird stuff instead of hair. i cant judge fairly since i am not attracted to females, but i dont think they have any features that makes them look gross for the general male public. You might find them too weird (and that is reasonable of course, many girls find the twilight vampire guy attractive but i puke at his sight), but for the general audience they look hot. I am sure almost every casual ME player romanced Liara. Fans are other case, they go more for story imo, as i said. BTW Cortez cried only once as far as i can remember, that crying scene was badly animated though.

 

 

 

Below a certain age girls think that they will meet a knight on the white horse in shining armor who will they marry with at once and live long and happy life. When they grow up, they meet a real, flesh and blood man, and it's like entire world crumbling on their heads. Some remain in this fantasy world for pretty long time, waiting for this fairy tale prince who will save them... Won't go too deep in the psychology, but beyond certain age, both boys and girls views are far from reality, and either of them usually change, and start looking at thing in more realistic manner. If not, than it's not entirely normal person, and there can be little done to help them. I don't talk about some sexual deviations person might have, since it's completely different story, and from what I've seen, media has absolutely no connection to it, so I'm not sure what are you referring to. Maybe I just don't clearly see your point, and if so may you elaborate a bit more on this?

 

And considering anime, I would actually be glad if some fanboy (or fangirl) would appear here, because maybe they'll say something we both don't see about it? I'm pretty curious why it is getting so popular too, and why pretty much grown men and women are chasing pokemons in the streets right now.

 

That's curious you mentioned "immersion", I actually can't get immersed well in heavily written RPGs, I enjoy it more like some kind of interactive book with choices, and I only prefer written over voiced because of sheer number of content you get. Voicing with current technology level is way too limited, and considering immersion itself, that would be my 5 columns, so not sure it's worth discussing here.

Though I completely agree on lazyness, in Oblivion, and FO3 with Skyrim suffers from it too, but that's the entire point. Those games aren't supposed to have deep stories and interesting events/endings, those more like huge sandboxes with mediocre script as some kind of a bait or demo for players to be drawn in. Anyway, that's how I see it, so you can freely dispute that. :wink:

 

On FNV mods, I do like it, thanks. Though I gotta little question, I'll ask in PM not to flood here, if that's ok.

 

I am sorry, i was excluding females from my example, it is relevant to both genders. I am trying to say that this far fetched idol, let it be overly romantic knight or irrealistically beautiful princess, is getting more and more ridiculous, the male example is anime-ish plastic sexdolls, and the female is sparkly yet macho romancemachines, and it is also pushed more and more down our throats, making people (both genders) facing irrelistical expectations, and it somehow seems to go away at a higher age in general. I was bringing up the male side because we were talking about the anime boob stuff, and i think it is a bit more harmful since child beauty is getting involved.

 

About dialogues, more content actually makes me feel more immersed for a while, but of course too much text can feel like a book, it depends on the writing :)

 

Bethesda game writing, i don't think focusing on the sadboxing justifies the bad writing or lazyness. Would a really simple but coherent and interesting questline that makes sense alienate any player? They'd just gain more fans or keep more old ones. As i tried to point out in the oblivion example (that got too long, oops), being dull or unintersting or cliche is not the (only) problem, it doesnt actually makes much sense and looks ridiculous and out of place. Fixing the latter would benefit everyone.

Oblivion also suffered from horrible voice acting, like making all the breton males sound like old men because that makes sense and making all the elf males (which are like 1/4 of the population) sound like annoying smuggy spoiled overethusiastic brats, just so i want to rip my ear off every five minutes until i avoid to talk to elf males completely (What did they think when they came up with the idea to give a shared voice not to a character type but to a whole race?). Also Fallout 4, dont make someone talk if what s/he needs to say doesnt fit on the game disc (dialogue "options" that seem different but actually exactly the same when spoken).

[Signette]

 

Well, it is not modern media that started these idols for sure, and they have always been in the human culture in some form, but today these stereotypes are maintained and enforceed through mass media. And i am mad at mass medfia because it has all the possibilites and resources to finally erase all this bullsh* that has been present in human history for too long, but instead it strenghtens it more. The "culprit" is greed i think, but it goes more deep and complicated here... Sometimes i feel like you think the majority of people is individually developed, self concious and strong minded enough to separate themselves from these social stereotypes, but in my experience this is not the case. (I think i just called the majority of people dumb, i am tired, sorry). Also you say most people think call of duty is retarded.. well, sales say completely otherwise... it is the biggest cash grab. so it is clearly not a small circle of mentally handicapped nerdboys who are spending their money on it.

 

 

But we talk about gaming especially. I think we can agree that it is mass media that keeps putting gaming into this stupid boyish geeky category, and we both find it weird and not understandable why it happens, how it started, and why it is so slowly changing. I totally agree that it doesn't make sense why it is so, but as long as it doesn't change, i don't expect to see many more female gamers. I see that gaming isnt different from reading, but i also see that females are being constantly shamed for playing games.

And i think that ME, DA and Beth games are not only good, but great games (even with their huge flaws), there are indeed tons of other great and even better games that are compltley overlooked by females.

You are probably right about greed here, creating and pushing stereotypes makes it easier to sell certain merchandise, like: "you don't have an iPhone? jeez are you living under the rock?" I'm not saying this device is bad, but it becomes idol for some, like making people into clones. So your reference to silliness of majority is not unjustified.

Yeah, we agree on media pushing this ridiculous stereotype about gaming in masses, but it really eludes me why. What's the point? On logical side giant entertainment corps would only benefit if this stereotype wasn't around, but it feels more of not only media, but some kind of a common attitude towards something shameful, like how people see alcoholics or drug addicts... It's a big no-no for females, sure, but it has bad spot for both genders mostly, even though gaming now is basically everywhere. Weird.

Considering CoD, a lot of people know that fast food is bad for health, yet business in booming. When crowd admires something, it doesn't necessarily mean quality, right?

 

 

 

Yeah that is what i meant as the "different approach", what most people play these games as. Like an avatar of yourself, that can do what you can't and don't want to in reality because of shame or social acceptance or punishment or morals or simply because there are no dragons (Also you are not mentally disabled and have the ability do distinguish between reality and virtual world). You say you might be psycho but i think that is quite normal. It is just human nature. I do that too, but it is a bit different, like i said, as i was writng a book, the characters main purpose isn't to experiece things i can't but to develop their own story, but i actually actively do the things they do, it is me who pushes the button, so it is impossible not to live with the character, and that is how i want it. Also i don't think book authors are completely detached from thier characters, they are pretty much attached, just a different way. Not that i am a book author, but there are many similarities. Well, there is this character, i am making up his story, the game gives the background, but it has still popped out of my own head. There are reasons why i find that story interesting. Also f. e. when i blow up an annoying npc, it is because it makes my characters story more developed, but i still do enjoy it :smile: (Again, i am only talking about rpgs or games with significant rpg elements, i guess i play other games like everyone else)

 

As i said, asari are pretty close to hot human female, they look like a chick with an "ideal" body shape, they're just blue and have the weird stuff instead of hair. i cant judge fairly since i am not attracted to females, but i dont think they have any features that makes them look gross for the general male public. You might find them too weird (and that is reasonable of course, many girls find the twilight vampire guy attractive but i puke at his sight), but for the general audience they look hot. I am sure almost every casual ME player romanced Liara. Fans are other case, they go more for story imo, as i said. BTW Cortez cried only once as far as i can remember, that crying scene was badly animated though.

Now that you mention it, see, I got this "book" approach too, the biggest difference between us is probably the way we perceive those games. For me Beths' FO and TES are mostly sandboxes, I got some roleplaying too but it usually going on in my head, because we don't really have some good means to express it to the game world and gain minimal feedback from NPC (if any at all). But at the same time I enjoy it because these games are extremely immersive for me. I play exclusively from 1st person, with realism mods like food, drinks and sleep, cold/radiation whatever, and when I enter a dark cave at night, wind blowing snow in your face, vision gets blurry, I almost freezing and hungry, with torch in my hand and rusty sword... well, I think you get the picture.

But in some cRPGs I perceive it almost as you do. When I create my party or character, I tend to write the back story. It's pretty extensive usually, like small biographic novel. It doesn't do anything for gameplay, but it's there to give me this "writing the character story" feeling you describe. People actually tend to do that in tabletop games from what I heard and pen&parer or digital cRPGs too.

 

This "ideal" body you mention gave me a smile. I know what you're saying, and that's true for most teenager boys brainwashed by magazines and the like, but it really falls off very quickly. You would be surprised about the range of "ideal body" favorites adult minded dudes admire. So there's no "ideal" anymore, it's always made me cringe things like beauty competitions, like what are you deciding there? Most subjective concept in the universe?... Sad jokes.

 

 

I am sorry, i was excluding females from my example, it is relevant to both genders. I am trying to say that this far fetched idol, let it be overly romantic knight or irrealistically beautiful princess, is getting more and more ridiculous, the male example is anime-ish plastic sexdolls, and the female is sparkly yet macho romancemachines, and it is also pushed more and more down our throats, making people (both genders) facing irrelistical expectations, and it somehow seems to go away at a higher age in general. I was bringing up the male side because we were talking about the anime boob stuff, and i think it is a bit more harmful since child beauty is getting involved.

 

About dialogues, more content actually makes me feel more immersed for a while, but of course too much text can feel like a book, it depends on the writing :smile:

 

Bethesda game writing, i don't think focusing on the sadboxing justifies the bad writing or lazyness. Would a really simple but coherent and interesting questline that makes sense alienate any player? They'd just gain more fans or keep more old ones. As i tried to point out in the oblivion example (that got too long, oops), being dull or unintersting or cliche is not the (only) problem, it doesnt actually makes much sense and looks ridiculous and out of place. Fixing the latter would benefit everyone.

Oblivion also suffered from horrible voice acting, like making all the breton males sound like old men because that makes sense and making all the elf males (which are like 1/4 of the population) sound like annoying smuggy spoiled overethusiastic brats, just so i want to rip my ear off every five minutes until i avoid to talk to elf males completely (What did they think when they came up with the idea to give a shared voice not to a character type but to a whole race?). Also Fallout 4, dont make someone talk if what s/he needs to say doesnt fit on the game disc (dialogue "options" that seem different but actually exactly the same when spoken).

I wouldn't say it's actually dangerous, because as the kid grows up (considering he or she don't have any deviations from "norma") they getting attracted of someone their age. Plainly said, grown up man can't be attracted by little girls if he isn't pedophile, and you can't make person pedophile or any other kind of -phile by media, I'm absolutely certain of that. Many young girls are completely crazy about dudes like Twilight Edward guy, some girls I met actually told me how they've been all over Biberoids when they were young, but it falls off later on (usually). Considering anime boob stuff, I'm pretty sure that it's more of an indicator of mod user age and gender (teenager boys), I don't think lots of regular grown up dudes are really attracted by it. They might download it for laughs maybe, but that's it, clearly not target audience. On the other hand, maybe you actually met some mature guys with such "tastes"? Well, that would be clearly not normal and creepy as hell...

 

Sometimes (rarely but still) writing in games beats books by miles. :wink:

 

Getting back to Beth, I dunno. Take a look at CoD, maybe they think: "why should we hire lots of good voice actors and writers, let's just throw in more pew-pew?!" I haven't played FO4, but from what I've seen and heard, the only improvement of it over FO3 and NV is shooting/fighting mechanics. I'm sure you know about dialogue system, tendency is there, what more proof can there be? Well, on some point I agree on lazyness with you, but also greed. And yes, high quality quests may attract some old hand fans, but high quality pew-pew will attract so much more. It's basic effort : profit ratio as I see it.

 

Also, no need to be sorry about long posts, I like reading. :laugh:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Oblivionaddicted]

I play female characters since I discovered some mods.

[hagyjalbeken]

 

You are probably right about greed here, creating and pushing stereotypes makes it easier to sell certain merchandise, like: "you don't have an iPhone? jeez are you living under the rock?" I'm not saying this device is bad, but it becomes idol for some, like making people into clones. So your reference to silliness of majority is not unjustified.

Yeah, we agree on media pushing this ridiculous stereotype about gaming in masses, but it really eludes me why. What's the point? On logical side giant entertainment corps would only benefit if this stereotype wasn't around, but it feels more of not only media, but some kind of a common attitude towards something shameful, like how people see alcoholics or drug addicts... It's a big no-no for females, sure, but it has bad spot for both genders mostly, even though gaming now is basically everywhere. Weird.

Considering CoD, a lot of people know that fast food is bad for health, yet business in booming. When crowd admires something, it doesn't necessarily mean quality, right?

 

I havent tought much about this "why media presents gaming as ridiculous and/or masculine" issu before, but it is more than weird. I mean gaming makes a lot of money and it grows fast while music and cinema industry declines. It doesnt make the smallest sense that gaming industry doesn't push social media and standard mass media towards a positive attitude more. The same thing happened to comic book superheroes, they were considered nery and childish, but big companies smelled money in it and used the pontential, now there is a superhero movie every month, and everyone goes batshit crazy about them, even females (even my bookworm female friend is an iron man fan).

Any yeah apple is the lord of making simple stuff appear as the best thing ever. i dont say iphones are bad, but they are clearly no better than any other smartphone, but with less features and incompatible with everything, for a much higher price. You basically pay for that little apple logo on the back. Almost the same thing with cod, it is the same boring simple plie of garbage reskinned every year, yet it is popular. I think its all about advertising. (I dont hate many things but i hate advertismenets with passion).

 

 

 

 

Now that you mention it, see, I got this "book" approach too, the biggest difference between us is probably the way we perceive those games. For me Beths' FO and TES are mostly sandboxes, I got some roleplaying too but it usually going on in my head, because we don't really have some good means to express it to the game world and gain minimal feedback from NPC (if any at all). But at the same time I enjoy it because these games are extremely immersive for me. I play exclusively from 1st person, with realism mods like food, drinks and sleep, cold/radiation whatever, and when I enter a dark cave at night, wind blowing snow in your face, vision gets blurry, I almost freezing and hungry, with torch in my hand and rusty sword... well, I think you get the picture.

But in some cRPGs I perceive it almost as you do. When I create my party or character, I tend to write the back story. It's pretty extensive usually, like small biographic novel. It doesn't do anything for gameplay, but it's there to give me this "writing the character story" feeling you describe. People actually tend to do that in tabletop games from what I heard and pen&parer or digital cRPGs too.

 

This "ideal" body you mention gave me a smile. I know what you're saying, and that's true for most teenager boys brainwashed by magazines and the like, but it really falls off very quickly. You would be surprised about the range of "ideal body" favorites adult minded dudes admire. So there's no "ideal" anymore, it's always made me cringe things like beauty competitions, like what are you deciding there? Most subjective concept in the universe?... Sad jokes.

 

I do enjoy sanboxing the same way you do, and it is true that most things happen in the players head, but also very immersive. This feeling of "i can do whatever i want" actually inspres me to do the thing the book writing way. I like that even though there is no real response from the world, i can do almost anything the way i want it. The thing i realy dislike in crpgs is the constant dice rolling. Sometimes you are totally out of control of what happens, it is only damn luck. If i want to gamble (and i dont), i go to a casino. When i attack something and the game starts to roll dices, that kinda feels as the opposte as a well written story and world for me, it disconnects me from my character and throws me out of the game. Stats calculating is fine, but when your succes only depends on the menial task of constantly calculating your skill developement and luck, that is not immersive. The perfect rpg would be for me something like morrowind with a combat system that still depends a lot on your stats but not a hit-and-miss style, and more lively npcs.

What you say about ideal body in real life, yes, it sometimes gets irrelevant when someone falls in love, but i havent met a sinlge male who doesn't start to describe his ideal partner with being pretty, and by pretty they almost always mean thin and doll faced, with nice boobs and butt as optional. Intelligent and funny is secondary, and by that a lot of them mean she admires their brain and humor. I don't say it is better with females and their ideal of a super romantic yet tough and macho alpha man, it is just that they put this nonexistent personality first, and looks the second.

 

 

 

I wouldn't say it's actually dangerous, because as the kid grows up (considering he or she don't have any deviations from "norma") they getting attracted of someone their age. Plainly said, grown up man can't be attracted by little girls if he isn't pedophile, and you can't make person pedophile or any other kind of -phile by media, I'm absolutely certain of that. Many young girls are completely crazy about dudes like Twilight Edward guy, some girls I met actually told me how they've been all over Biberoids when they were young, but it falls off later on (usually). Considering anime boob stuff, I'm pretty sure that it's more of an indicator of mod user age and gender (teenager boys), I don't think lots of regular grown up dudes are really attracted by it. They might download it for laughs maybe, but that's it, clearly not target audience. On the other hand, maybe you actually met some mature guys with such "tastes"? Well, that would be clearly not normal and creepy as hell...

 

Sometimes (rarely but still) writing in games beats books by miles. :wink:

 

Getting back to Beth, I dunno. Take a look at CoD, maybe they think: "why should we hire lots of good voice actors and writers, let's just throw in more pew-pew?!" I haven't played FO4, but from what I've seen and heard, the only improvement of it over FO3 and NV is shooting/fighting mechanics. I'm sure you know about dialogue system, tendency is there, what more proof can there be? Well, on some point I agree on lazyness with you, but also greed. And yes, high quality quests may attract some old hand fans, but high quality pew-pew will attract so much more. It's basic effort : profit ratio as I see it.

 

Also, no need to be sorry about long posts, I like reading. :laugh:

 

As i said, the child beauty is dangerous because it constantly appearing and accepted by those young males might make being attracted to child girls in general as acceptable, like some borderline pedo guy might think that there is nothing wrong with him hoping to rape the 11 year old girl next door because those mainstream cartoons and stuff are full of sexy children. But i hope i am wrong.

And yeah, i did meet some adult guys (mature. less) with a taste for tiny animated squeaky shiny porn dolls, who were also educated and otherwise seemed intelligent. I also met many guys who dislike this stuff much though( like most of my friends). Actually, the latter is the majority, but there is a significant numer of guys who are into this animated japanese schoolgirl stuff. And they all act like it was okay, some of them even think that their personal taste should be the mainstream.

About bad writing and voice acting, i still think that it is because of lazyness and the lack of passion towards the product, since having a better story and voice acting while keeping the pew-pew is very possible and by having both in the game would attract more players so they'd make more money. A bit more effort, much more profit.

[Signette]

 

I havent tought much about this "why media presents gaming as ridiculous and/or masculine" issu before, but it is more than weird. I mean gaming makes a lot of money and it grows fast while music and cinema industry declines. It doesnt make the smallest sense that gaming industry doesn't push social media and standard mass media towards a positive attitude more. The same thing happened to comic book superheroes, they were considered nery and childish, but big companies smelled money in it and used the pontential, now there is a superhero movie every month, and everyone goes batshit crazy about them, even females (even my bookworm female friend is an iron man fan).

 

Any yeah apple is the lord of making simple stuff appear as the best thing ever. i dont say iphones are bad, but they are clearly no better than any other smartphone, but with less features and incompatible with everything, for a much higher price. You basically pay for that little apple logo on the back. Almost the same thing with cod, it is the same boring simple plie of garbage reskinned every year, yet it is popular. I think its all about advertising. (I dont hate many things but i hate advertismenets with passion).

Heh, not really a fan of comic stuff, can't really remember reading any, but I have became somewhat admirer of Iron Man too, simply because Robert Downey jr. is SO good actor. I remember watching some Marvel cartoons on TV when I was a kid, and Iron Man was always so bland and uninteresting, the way they made him in the movie makes you really fall in love with this character. There seems to be really talented people in this industry, hope some of them turn to gaming and actually improve situation as they did with all this comic stuff. Good points here.

 

And considering Apple products, what you said is my concern with it too. I'm android user mostly and it's so easy and cool to root device, use custom ROMs, use apps from whatever source you'd like to, have ONLY apps you need and be able to delete everything else and so on... I don't get these iPhone fans to be honest.

 

 

 

I do enjoy sanboxing the same way you do, and it is true that most things happen in the players head, but also very immersive. This feeling of "i can do whatever i want" actually inspres me to do the thing the book writing way. I like that even though there is no real response from the world, i can do almost anything the way i want it. The thing i realy dislike in crpgs is the constant dice rolling. Sometimes you are totally out of control of what happens, it is only damn luck. If i want to gamble (and i dont), i go to a casino. When i attack something and the game starts to roll dices, that kinda feels as the opposte as a well written story and world for me, it disconnects me from my character and throws me out of the game. Stats calculating is fine, but when your succes only depends on the menial task of constantly calculating your skill developement and luck, that is not immersive. The perfect rpg would be for me something like morrowind with a combat system that still depends a lot on your stats but not a hit-and-miss style, and more lively npcs.

 

What you say about ideal body in real life, yes, it sometimes gets irrelevant when someone falls in love, but i havent met a sinlge male who doesn't start to describe his ideal partner with being pretty, and by pretty they almost always mean thin and doll faced, with nice boobs and butt as optional. Intelligent and funny is secondary, and by that a lot of them mean she admires their brain and humor. I don't say it is better with females and their ideal of a super romantic yet tough and macho alpha man, it is just that they put this nonexistent personality first, and looks the second.

It's really not like that in cRPGs, I can't say for sure, but feels like you haven't spent enough time around them. To bust some myths:

Firstly DnD based game (or any type of dice rolling one) isn't necessary an RPG, it's just a game system, can be even a Dungeon Crawler for what it's worth. The only real indicator of RPG is to be able to actually roleplay. It doesn't touch combat even remotely, only interaction between player and NPCs > World. Secondly, I dunno which RPG you were referring to in your post but those are RARELY so hard on RNG as you describe. Those dice rolls there are basically only for flavor, unless you set hardest difficulty to get constantly raped... On the basis - rolls are very adequate, you just need to be more attentive and use a bit of math when levelling, everything game throws at you can be countered with ease. Or you can simply powerlevel through any dangers you face (outlevel your foes), as it works in most RPGs. But overall modern cRPGs very rarely use this dice roll system, if ever...

Also pretty surprising you don't remember, but you had a chance to miss on hit in Morrowind if didn't met certain requirements, so you can safely count RNG here as well, they only got rid of this system in Oblivion. FO3 had "rolls" on some actions too IIRC.

 

Ouch, some of us, males, are real jerks, eh? And to reflect on this, problems of female perception doesn't start with "alpha male macho" stuff, surprisingly they don't care about looks as most males do, but it's even more complicated and brainf****d than this... Biggest advantage of males here is that we are mostly simple, not like females.

 

 

As i said, the child beauty is dangerous because it constantly appearing and accepted by those young males might make being attracted to child girls in general as acceptable, like some borderline pedo guy might think that there is nothing wrong with him hoping to rape the 11 year old girl next door because those mainstream cartoons and stuff are full of sexy children. But i hope i am wrong.

And yeah, i did meet some adult guys (mature. less) with a taste for tiny animated squeaky shiny porn dolls, who were also educated and otherwise seemed intelligent. I also met many guys who dislike this stuff much though( like most of my friends). Actually, the latter is the majority, but there is a significant numer of guys who are into this animated japanese schoolgirl stuff. And they all act like it was okay, some of them even think that their personal taste should be the mainstream.

About bad writing and voice acting, i still think that it is because of lazyness and the lack of passion towards the product, since having a better story and voice acting while keeping the pew-pew is very possible and by having both in the game would attract more players so they'd make more money. A bit more effort, much more profit.

 

Erm... dude that thinks this way needs some real medical treatment, but most importantly he needs to be isolated from society. You really describe some sick whacko, no offence. Those types of people usually end up in jail, thankfully laws are in action and no "mainstream" can change that. No psychically normal person can think some actions are acceptable and ok because he watched it in some anime cartoon. It's the same as people tend to blame video games violence for crimes. Seriously, like before video games and violent movies were with us, there were no crimes whatsoever and we all lived in paradise. C'mon...

 

Yep, agree that some people I know (me included) will certainly look at next Beth product differently and in more positive way if they focus on pure gameplay and RPG aspects both, but obviously they didn't yet, and I don't know why. Hard to argue here, you have some valid points.

[hagyjalbeken]

 

Heh, not really a fan of comic stuff, can't really remember reading any, but I have became somewhat admirer of Iron Man too, simply because Robert Downey jr. is SO good actor. I remember watching some Marvel cartoons on TV when I was a kid, and Iron Man was always so bland and uninteresting, the way they made him in the movie makes you really fall in love with this character. There seems to be really talented people in this industry, hope some of them turn to gaming and actually improve situation as they did with all this comic stuff. Good points here.

 

And considering Apple products, what you said is my concern with it too. I'm android user mostly and it's so easy and cool to root device, use custom ROMs, use apps from whatever source you'd like to, have ONLY apps you need and be able to delete everything else and so on... I don't get these iPhone fans to be honest.

 

I've never been a comic book fan either, but i do enjoy some of those superhero movies sometimes. My only problem with them is that studios should rethink the quality-quantity ratio and maybe come up with some new ideas, rebooting spiderman shouldnt be an annual event. They'll end up degrading the genre into pathetic money-grab low quality trash movies about baby spiderman with a radioactive golden retirever sidekick fighting against captain amreica who was turned evil by global warming.

About apple products, i am sure people buy them as some kind of fashion accesory, like it was the hipster gucci bag.

 

 

 

 

It's really not like that in cRPGs, I can't say for sure, but feels like you haven't spent enough time around them. To bust some myths:

 

 

Firstly DnD based game (or any type of dice rolling one) isn't necessary an RPG, it's just a game system, can be even a Dungeon Crawler for what it's worth. The only real indicator of RPG is to be able to actually roleplay. It doesn't touch combat even remotely, only interaction between player and NPCs > World. Secondly, I dunno which RPG you were referring to in your post but those are RARELY so hard on RNG as you describe. Those dice rolls there are basically only for flavor, unless you set hardest difficulty to get constantly raped... On the basis - rolls are very adequate, you just need to be more attentive and use a bit of math when levelling, everything game throws at you can be countered with ease. Or you can simply powerlevel through any dangers you face (outlevel your foes), as it works in most RPGs. But overall modern cRPGs very rarely use this dice roll system, if ever...

Also pretty surprising you don't remember, but you had a chance to miss on hit in Morrowind if didn't met certain requirements, so you can safely count RNG here as well, they only got rid of this system in Oblivion. FO3 had "rolls" on some actions too IIRC.

 

Ouch, some of us, males, are real jerks, eh? And to reflect on this, problems of female perception doesn't start with "alpha male macho" stuff, surprisingly they don't care about looks as most males do, but it's even more complicated and brainf****d than this... Biggest advantage of males here is that we are mostly simple, not like females.

 

I am sorry but i completely missed a sentence or something, but that is not what i wanted to write :tongue: (i am on a holiday and have limited time with a pc, i didnt re-read what i wrote and wasnt paying attention)

What i meant to write and missed was: I really like this book writing aspect of classic table-top rpgs too, but i am not much into table-top rpgs. I really dislike the dice-rolling, and that in some crpgs too. (instead of "the thing i dislkie in crpgs is the constant dice rolling") So i was mainly talking about table tops and a few games, especially morrowind, as in the example in the end i said it wold be perfect without the hit-and miss dice rolling system.

I dont know if it was there because of the engine limitations or they wanted it to look like table-top more, but it was a bad decision. It was so hard at the beginning of the game, almost all my fights depended on damn luck.

 

Heh, "alpha male macho" doesnt refer exactly to looks, it is more like a behaviour that females find attractive. But it is not a trait you are born with, it can be learned. Something like mathemathics, some have it easy, some hard, but anyone can learn it to some level at least. But many females expect men to have this skill at maths professor genius level. also i said "nonexistent personality" because it is mostly acting, it is always fake. However, females are doomed if they are ugly faced. You can lose weight, get healthy, get a nice clothing style, have a great hair, but you cant chage a non attractive face even with makeup (and that has to be washed off sometimes). So it is a bit more "unfair" on the female side. Not that i am angry, i stopped caring about these expectations (also i look "acceptable" to standards and i don't look for this fake macho personality in males), it is just really pathethic and sad.

 

 

 

Erm... dude that thinks this way needs some real medical treatment, but most importantly he needs to be isolated from society. You really describe some sick whacko, no offence. Those types of people usually end up in jail, thankfully laws are in action and no "mainstream" can change that. No psychically normal person can think some actions are acceptable and ok because he watched it in some anime cartoon. It's the same as people tend to blame video games violence for crimes. Seriously, like before video games and violent movies were with us, there were no crimes whatsoever and we all lived in paradise. C'mon...

 

 

Yep, agree that some people I know (me included) will certainly look at next Beth product differently and in more positive way if they focus on pure gameplay and RPG aspects both, but obviously they didn't yet, and I don't know why. Hard to argue here, you have some valid points.

 

I didnt say that showing sexy cartoon children will make more people pedo, i only assumed that some already deviant people who oppressed their unnatural desires more or less see these kinds of stuff in cartoons and might start to feel that their sexual preferences might not be so unhealthy and instead of seeking professional help they just accept it and might even "act" later. However, i dont think that this can become a significant widespread phenomenon, but it can be harmful, and i dont see any positive side of it. It is not a huge problem, but the world would be a little bit better place without it.

 

Heh, i actualy stopped to be excited about any future beth game. Or any game at all. It is a bad habit that only leads to disappointment.

Edited August 16, 2016 by hagyjalbeken