Male or Female PC? How come?

[HeyYou]

Trouble is, the average gamer is in his/her twenties...... So, appealing to the 'teenage boys' is only a... well, not 'small', but, not 'large' either, percentage of their audience. Me? I am 55, and still love playin' vid games. I don't care about romance in games at all. It's an aspect of role playing I have no desire to indulge in. I just wanna kill stuff. :D (only kind of kidding there..... a good story makes up for a lot of failings in vid games. One of the reasons I liked Morrowind so much.)

[hagyjalbeken]

Trouble is, the average gamer is in his/her twenties...... So, appealing to the 'teenage boys' is only a... well, not 'small', but, not 'large' either, percentage of their audience. Me? I am 55, and still love playin' vid games. I don't care about romance in games at all. It's an aspect of role playing I have no desire to indulge in. I just wanna kill stuff. :D (only kind of kidding there..... a good story makes up for a lot of failings in vid games. One of the reasons I liked Morrowind so much.)

The average "gamer" ( i dislike this word) is probalbly in their twenties, but i am under the impression that teenage boys spend the most money on them. You have to admit that for a significant amount of games they are the target audience, or at least they are becoming that more and more.

i only mentioned romance as a possible option to attract more females to gaming the way sexy content attracts males. I personally think about it as a nice little option to add to the story of you character if well done and fits the character i play, but otherwise ignore it. I'm there for the andventure, story, and yes, killing (but i've never been a "girly girl").

(BTW morrowind is still my favourite bethesda game, and not because of "nostalgia glasses", i played oblivion first, it is because of the setting and the story)

[Signette]

 

Regarding romance, i've talked about ME already, especially ME1. Where you have two chicks for a male, and one poorly written guy and a chick for females. They were expecting a teenage male who is into lesbian sex more than an actual female player. Even if Liara is quite "nice", her race is a shameless fan service for teen boys, and thanks to that, the whole race makes no sense. Its a bit better with later MEs and DA though.

Those other games you mentioned are unpoplurar with females because they are labeled as "strategy", and the whole genre is unpopular, sadly, but i am not sure. (haven't playe them yet but i plan to)

Still, yes, romance could be a "bait" for females, but it would be the same "shallow" as the boobie content, i think.

Also, look at fallout, they slowly turning a cool rpg into a brainless shooter, because of teen boys who have grown up on callofduty.

And according to the hairstyle mods and some popular male makeover mods for skyrim, there are already plenty of bieber-looking dragonborns out there... (or more like skinny-shiny anime vampires)

So there's improvement = bait's getting bigger, huh? I have played all MEs and DAs, but I can't really remember who you can romance, for me it left impression that everyone (or almost everyone) is complete bisexual. Though I have to admit, when in DAO my black bold mage with smiley face triggered "sex" scene with Zevran practiacally by accident (I wasn't really "romancing" anyone) it was very amusing to watch, and funny, but building game around it? I dunno... And thanks to the Nine, I haven't seen those Bieber-oids and anime-vampire males in my game. :happy:

 

On Fallout, IMO since Bethesda adopted brand, it was nothing but brainless shooter sadly... FO4 is just where FO3 was heading from the start.

 

 

Sadly it is a growing trend amongst parents that instead of real parenting they buy the kiddos any stuff they want (not only games, but also phones, clothes, everything they want), so the "shut up", and seem happy (they are not). Also while the kid sits in front of the screen he doesn't bother them and also doesn't go to "drug-sex parties" (or they think so). It is not (only) my experience, i have many teacher friends who say that, and i've heard many professionals talk about this issue with worry. Everything is getting to be made for kids and teens today because parents buy expensive stuff for them more than for themselves.

And steam sales are not based on teenagers because they can pirate the games. Consoles however, much harder to pirate. Also much "easier" to use than a pc, considered cooler and les "nerdy" than a pc, so teens go for that, so devs will push that too.

Hm, curious, that must be wealthy European thingy which I'm totally unfamiliar with and looks like completely different reality for me. Parents I know are practically pushing kids to these "drug-sex parties", because dads and moms think their children spend too much time infront of the monitor and less time outside, also not many families can actually spend money on entertainment devices and games too. Most, but not all kids have smartphones, some low/mid-range PCs and weak laptops are more widespread here, consoles not so much.

I wouldn't get into piracy, that's iffy topic and you cannot really measure anything with it, but regarding consoles, well, those who have them are treated as mentally disabled, and humilated, like... massively. So not too popular and definitely not cool.

 

 

Indie devs and people who invest in them are looking for popularity and profit too, so they inevitably are going to push towards teenage boys, but clearly they are a lot more open-minded. And you are right, the chances of reaching an actual female audience are much higher here than with a well-known aaa dev who are too afraid to try something new.

Also, it would help a lot if there were more female game developers, but since there are lot a less females who are interested programming or anything related (partially because of menitoned stereotypes), it is hard to find one. But then they could look for female writers. Look at harry potter, written by a female, and very poular with both genders.

That's funny, because from what I know there are lots of female modders here on Nexus. That's not gamedev, but close to it I think. Mod making is not "girly" as far as stereotypes go and basically programming at it's core. If this "girl power" gonna band up, I think some decent projects can come outta this. :wink:

 

-Youtube vid-

Lol'd but true.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Signette

[hagyjalbeken]

 

So there's improvement = bait's getting bigger, huh? I have played all MEs and DAs, but I can't really remember who you can romance, for me it left impression that everyone (or almost everyone) is complete bisexual. Though I have to admit, when in DAO my black bold mage with smiley face triggered "sex" scene with Zevran practiacally by accident (I wasn't really "romancing" anyone) it was very amusing to watch, and funny, but building game around it? I dunno... And thanks to the Nine, I haven't seen those Bieber-oids and anime-vampire males in my game. :happy:

 

Well i originally brought up romance as an example for how games are aimed towards young males, like even in the most "girly" aspect, romance, they think first about teen boys. And however a game that is based around some shallow romance plot could possibly attract many females imho, it is the same mistake as building a game around boobs, they might be popular, buuuuut.... i don't think that is what devs should do, it was just an example. i think it would be the best if they simplly considered femlaes as a possible large audience while creating the game. BTW dragon age is kinda "girly" imho, with many female players, (actually the only game my female friends even considered playing besides sims), and if they keep contiuning that way, they will reach many more females.

 

 

On Fallout, IMO since Bethesda adopted brand, it was nothing but brainless shooter sadly... FO4 is just where FO3 was heading from the start.

 

i don't blame bethesda (solely), any big game dev would have done the same, or even worse i think. I was just kinda hoping that they wouldn't dumb it down anymore (like removing anything that resembles a conversation). And even though i don't think that fnv is that much better than f3 as many people here claim, it was clearly an improvement, and i was under the impression that they might add popular features to their new game from it, like the rep. system or skill checks in coversations. But clearly they tried to reach more teen boys with short attention span instead.

 

 

Hm, curious, that must be wealthy European thingy which I'm totally unfamiliar with and looks like completely different reality for me. Parents I know are practically pushing kids to these "drug-sex parties", because dads and moms think their children spend too much time infront of the monitor and less time outside, also not many families can actually spend money on entertainment devices and games too. Most, but not all kids have smartphones, some low/mid-range PCs and weak laptops are more widespread here, consoles not so much.

I wouldn't get into piracy, that's iffy topic and you cannot really measure anything with it, but regarding consoles, well, those who have them are treated as mentally disabled, and humilated, like... massively. So not too popular and definitely not cool.

 

Well, i am not from a wealthy european country, more like a "poor, pityful neighbour, eating glue in the corner" european country, and not many people can afford the newest stuff, but as in many western countries, spoiling your kid with buying them the best stuff you can afford instead of actually raising them, is sadly a growing trend. And while consoles and other new hi-tech items aren't common where i live, it is in the wealthier parts of the usa, eu, japan etc., and that is where the money comes from. And i wonder which place in the world is where consoles are not considered as "cool" under the age of 18.

And sadly, piracy IS a great issue for pc gaming. One of the reasons developers aim for consoles more and more.

 

 

That's funny, because from what I know there are lots of female modders here on Nexus. That's not gamedev, but close to it I think. Mod making is not "girly" as far as stereotypes go and basically programming at it's core. If this "girl power" gonna band up, I think some decent projects can come outta this. :wink:

 

Modding is a hobby, and it doesn't necessarily require advanced programming skills, or any coding at all. But actually developing a game does.

By modding you can make armours, weapons, objects, houses, landscapes, even small quests without any programming experience. Even i made some mods (they're all armour and clothing though), and plan to learn basic scripting, even though mathematics (and anything related) and me are mortal enemies.

But gaming development requires at least a degree and experience in tech.

There are female devs though, and as i said, that is not the only thing women can do for game developement, there are many writers, 3d artists etc. It requires a lot of effort for a "girl power" team to get inside the game dev mancave, but is not impossible.

[Signette]

 

Well i originally brought up romance as an example for how games are aimed towards young males, like even in the most "girly" aspect, romance, they think first about teen boys. And however a game that is based around some shallow romance plot could possibly attract many females imho, it is the same mistake as building a game around boobs, they might be popular, buuuuut.... i don't think that is what devs should do, it was just an example. i think it would be the best if they simplly considered femlaes as a possible large audience while creating the game. BTW dragon age is kinda "girly" imho, with many female players, (actually the only game my female friends even considered playing besides sims), and if they keep contiuning that way, they will reach many more females.

Okay, but what about quality? DAO was good, DA2 was acceptable (I actually like it even more than DAO), but DAI is just BAD. And it's not just me. While you playing, it feels like some generic korean MMO ripoff with fancy graphics (thanks to Frostbite), but gameplay is such a slog... Doesn't it turn off females? Because most dudes I know feel exactly the same way about it.

 

That's really-really peculiar, why do girls have such common gaming preferences? You just keep confirming it. I haven't yet seen ONE who is in gaming and didn't play either SIMS, DA or ME... Mindblowing. I mean it's pretty hard to find game which ALL guys are playing no matter what.

 

 

i don't blame bethesda (solely), any big game dev would have done the same, or even worse i think. I was just kinda hoping that they wouldn't dumb it down anymore (like removing anything that resembles a conversation). And even though i don't think that fnv is that much better than f3 as many people here claim, it was clearly an improvement, and i was under the impression that they might add popular features to their new game from it, like the rep. system or skill checks in coversations. But clearly they tried to reach more teen boys with short attention span instead.

Probabaly yeah, you're right. And FNV was Obsidians' doing mostly, who knows a thing about RPG, but it's not that easy to completely overhaul system in a project with already existing setting. And yes, I don't see too much improvement in FNV over FO3 too. On a sidenote, Wasteland 2 is pretty good, I don't think after that I could touch any Beth Post-Apocalyptic game ever. I haven't personally played FO4 yet and not even planning to btw.

 

 

Well, i am not from a wealthy european country, more like a "poor, pityful neighbour, eating glue in the corner" european country, and not many people can afford the newest stuff, but as in many western countries, spoiling your kid with buying them the best stuff you can afford instead of actually raising them, is sadly a growing trend. And while consoles and other new hi-tech items aren't common where i live, it is in the wealthier parts of the usa, eu, japan etc., and that is where the money comes from. And i wonder which place in the world is where consoles are not considered as "cool" under the age of 18.

And sadly, piracy IS a great issue for pc gaming. One of the reasons developers aim for consoles more and more.

Huh, amusing definition of EU country if I ever heard one.

On places where consoles are overly not cool no matter the age would be modern RU, and post-USSR territory too I reckon. Being "savvy" is too priceless among kids and adults both, and you cannot be one while simply inserting DVD in a player, I mean, you cannot even overclock this prehistorian console hardware, aye?

 

 

Modding is a hobby, and it doesn't necessarily require advanced programming skills, or any coding at all. But actually developing a game does.

By modding you can make armours, weapons, objects, houses, landscapes, even small quests without any programming experience. Even i made some mods (they're all armour and clothing though), and plan to learn basic scripting, even though mathematics (and anything related) and me are mortal enemies.

But gaming development requires at least a degree and experience in tech.

There are female devs though, and as i said, that is not the only thing women can do for game developement, there are many writers, 3d artists etc. It requires a lot of effort for a "girl power" team to get inside the game dev mancave, but is not impossible.

Of course, I'm not saying gamedev is all about programming. In some projects I bet actual design and writing are much more important than coding itself. And those "mancave" notions really makes me smile. :wink:

But even making clothes and armors takes skill, and there are some notible cases of modders hired by big dev studious.

 

 

 

[sunshinenbrick]

Many games have a wide demographic. Things like Sonic, Mario, Wii Sports, Zelda, Final Fantasy, Skyrim, puzzle games, shooting games, racing games, 'mobile games', appeal to an incredible number and variety of people. The primary market has always been the main target for these things, but now we have niches for almost every corner of our (post)human desire.

[Tidus44]

I was in Calgary last week for the Congress of the Humanities and Social Sciences and one of the sessions involved the Conference of the Canadian Game Studies Association (CGSA) on research conducted regarding the choice of avatar in video games. Four papers were presented:

“Shut up, and play or get out: A Pedagogy of gendered digital identities in video gaming”

“Identity Tourism in Virtual Space: The Virtual Identity Play Dress up Box”

“The Play is the Thing: Virtual Embodiment and the Player/Avatar Relationship in Digital Games”

“Playing in Drag: A Study on Gender Choice in Virtual and Non-Virtual Gaming”

 

While esthetics is a part of the reasoning for males to choose a female avatar, the research found much more complex reasoning behind player choices.

 

Part of the research identified the age and gender of gamers (based research by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Emory University and Andrews University).

The highest percentage was 30% for 18-35 year olds.

26% of gamers are 50+ years old.

26% under 18 years.

18% 36-49 years.

The average age of a gamer is 35 years old for males and 43 for females.

The gender of gamers is 56% male and 44% female.

 

The bad part is gamers were more likely to be socially withdrawn, sacrificing real-life social activities to play video games, and were more likely to lead a sedentary lifestyle and be overweight. Add that females tend to suffer from depression more than non-gaming females.

 

The largest reason for a gender swapped avatar was to experience the game differently followed by fantasy role-play allowing the individual to choose their own narrative in the game. Individuals who practice alternative lifestyles were the most likely to choose a gender swapped avatar, followed closely by older and more experienced gamers.

 

The significant difference in regards to choice of avatar was for on-line games as females were the most likely to choose a swapped avatar to avoid harassment or unwanted attention and “fit in” assuming that many games are male dominated. Statistics are apparently skewed in this area as researchers found many females would not admit to gender swapping avatars due to the stigma of being a gamer. However, there appears to be more and more females coming forward as the Gamergate controversy fades into memory and the stigma associated with female gamers becomes less and less.

Males tended to choose a female in order to gain certain advantages, especially in aggressive type games. Other players tend to expect less of females, especially in mostly male guilds, and accept a female member quicker than a male that isn’t a significantly good player.

 

While there are a number of unanswered questions about avatar selection I would think it safe to surmise that the reasons for avatar choices are as diverse as the persons who game. It all comes down to why one plays and what they enjoy while playing.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Tidus44

[hagyjalbeken]

 

Okay, but what about quality? DAO was good, DA2 was acceptable (I actually like it even more than DAO), but DAI is just BAD. And it's not just me. While you playing, it feels like some generic korean MMO ripoff with fancy graphics (thanks to Frostbite), but gameplay is such a slog... Doesn't it turn off females? Because most dudes I know feel exactly the same way about it.

 

That's really-really peculiar, why do girls have such common gaming preferences? You just keep confirming it. I haven't yet seen ONE who is in gaming and didn't play either SIMS, DA or ME... Mindblowing. I mean it's pretty hard to find game which ALL guys are playing no matter what.

DA2 is a bit better than DAO imho :) I haven't tried DAI yet, but my female friend who played DAI told me positive things about it, but she was complainig about gameplay though.

I havent played sims for long, i actually only tried sims2 but i was bored after i created my first family. I prefer ME over DA, and i played both simply beacause i love RPGs (or things that try to resemble one at least), not because they are supposed to be "girly" (as i told you i was under the imprssion that ME is actually very much "boy territory" before i played it).

And maybe, just maybe, most girls tend to play the mentioned games because those are the ones that are actually a little bit made for them too, while males have a much wider variety to choose from.

(and now i am not talking about portable consoles, wii, mobile games and facebook crap like candy crush, but popular aaa games for pc and consoles)

Also, i might be the wrong person in this topic, since im am not a typical "girl gamer".

 

 

Huh, amusing definition of EU country if I ever heard one.

On places where consoles are overly not cool no matter the age would be modern RU, and post-USSR territory too I reckon. Being "savvy" is too priceless among kids and adults both, and you cannot be one while simply inserting DVD in a player, I mean, you cannot even overclock this prehistorian console hardware, aye?

 

My country wasn't technically the part of USSR, but we have a cemetery for lenin and stalin statues and war monuments with muscular soldiers and red stars, that says something... When i was a teen a poverful pc was a lot more cooler than a console here too, but not any more today. However, this "savvy" mentality is clearly present though, but it is more like buying-the-console-for-half-prize-on-the-black-market-savvy :)

 

 

Of course, I'm not saying gamedev is all about programming. In some projects I bet actual design and writing are much more important than coding itself. And those "mancave" notions really makes me smile. :wink:

But even making clothes and armors takes skill, and there are some notible cases of modders hired by big dev studious.

 

Yup, there are some very talented female 3d artists out there. However, most of them, at least the ones i've heard of, are males, and have also some coding background too.

I don't really think game devs pay attention on mods. Most games aren't even moddable without serious tinkering and sometimes it is even illegal. The only case i've heard a modder was hired (from nexus) was Falksaar.

[Signette]

 

DA2 is a bit better than DAO imho :smile: I haven't tried DAI yet, but my female friend who played DAI told me positive things about it, but she was complainig about gameplay though.

I havent played sims for long, i actually only tried sims2 but i was bored after i created my first family. I prefer ME over DA, and i played both simply beacause i love RPGs (or things that try to resemble one at least), not because they are supposed to be "girly" (as i told you i was under the imprssion that ME is actually very much "boy territory" before i played it).

And maybe, just maybe, most girls tend to play the mentioned games because those are the ones that are actually a little bit made for them too, while males have a much wider variety to choose from.

(and now i am not talking about portable consoles, wii, mobile games and facebook crap like candy crush, but popular aaa games for pc and consoles)

Also, i might be the wrong person in this topic, since im am not a typical "girl gamer".

Whow, people usually start throwing rotten tomatos at you when you say that DA2 is better than DAO, totally unexpected!

But I still don't get how they identify those "little bit made for them"? You said youreself, you had no idea about ME before you got into it, and covers or posters usually don't feature: "for women too" or something like that, right? Then again, as I mentioned already, gender neutral games, like 4x strategies, go completely unnoticed... Also low fem player count in cRPGs, where you have ability to create character, and have much more roleplay options than in blockbusters such as ME or DA, where you always have to be manly-girl-leader-figher.

 

 

My country wasn't technically the part of USSR, but we have a cemetery for lenin and stalin statues and war monuments with muscular soldiers and red stars, that says something... When i was a teen a poverful pc was a lot more cooler than a console here too, but not any more today. However, this "savvy" mentality is clearly present though, but it is more like buying-the-console-for-half-prize-on-the-black-market-savvy :smile:

Well, Red Army monuments can be found in many places across war ridden Europe along with cemereries, but Stalin statues? Jeez... I don't think many Stalin memorials can be found in this country, non in my city at least...

But idea of "savvyness" haven't change here a bit, rather: buying-top-end-PC-parts-somewhere-in-EU-coz-prices-here-are-overtheroof.

 

 

Yup, there are some very talented female 3d artists out there. However, most of them, at least the ones i've heard of, are males, and have also some coding background too.

I don't really think game devs pay attention on mods. Most games aren't even moddable without serious tinkering and sometimes it is even illegal. The only case i've heard a modder was hired (from nexus) was Falksaar.

Yeah, it's just A.J.Velicky is a famous example, but I'm pretty sure I heard some other stories like that. If anything, while modding you learn something, get new skills and have more chances to apply for the job then the guy next to you I think.

 

@Tidus44

I'm really curious of where those statistics have been taken from? Seems like several small cities of similar population structure... I remember here on Nexus was voting on this matter, female % was SO laughably low, something like 94/6% but still, very realistic. It reflects what you can expect meeting ppl IRL usually, but those 56/44% really doesn't look legit at all...

Edited June 8, 2016 by Signette

[hagyjalbeken]

 

Whow, people usually start throwing rotten tomatos at you when you say that DA2 is better than DAO, totally unexpected!

But I still don't get how they identify those "little bit made for them"? You said youreself, you had no idea about ME before you got into it, and covers or posters usually don't feature: "for women too" or something like that, right? Then again, as I mentioned already, gender neutral games, like 4x strategies, go completely unnoticed... Also low fem player count in cRPGs, where you have ability to create character, and have much more roleplay options than in blockbusters such as ME or DA, where you always have to be manly-girl-leader-figher.

 

Yeah it is like saying "mass effects ending didn't suck that much" :D

Actually i found out what kind of game ME actually is by bumping into posts about it on some forums and also one of my (male) friends was playing it and told me about it.

And strategy games, as i told before, are not considered gender neutral, even though some of them are not masculine at all.

About cRPGs, i am under the impression that they are mostly played by peope who played tabletop role playing games before (like dungeons and dragons), and those are mostly played by males and considered a bit "boyish" (at least that is my experience, any time i've tred to join a group, they were almost all boys).

 

 

 

Yeah, it's just A.J.Velicky is a famous example, but I'm pretty sure I heard some other stories like that. If anything, while modding you learn something, get new skills and have more chances to apply for the job then the guy next to you I think.

 

Yeah, true, it looks nice on your CV if you already have more serious developing experience too i guess, but otherwise, they don't really care about modding community. But that is ok because most people think about it as a nice hobby.

 

 

 

@Tidus44

I'm really curious of where those statistics have been taken from? Seems like several small cities of similar population structure... I remember here on Nexus was voting on this matter, female % was SO laughably low, something like 94/6% but still, very realistic. It reflects what you can expect meeting ppl IRL usually, but those 56/44% really doesn't look legit at all...

I think it isn't the location, but the games they used as a base for the survey. i guess they took examples from every entertainment that is technically considered as a "game", which includes mobile apps or facebook games like candy crush, farmville angry birds etc., also more "family friendly" consoles, like Wii. That explains the high percent and average age of female gamers i think. But that is just a guess.