Fallout 4 Creation Kit Beta and an Important Notice to Survival Testers

[TravisTech32]

In response to post #37090155. #37090490, #37091030, #37091305, #37092990, #37093400, #37093605, #37096005, #37098855 are all replies on the same post.

Travis999 wrote: To all the Bethsoft fanboys...

Regarding the lore, if you're sooo knowledgeable, i suppose you've also played falout 1, 2, Tactics, 3 and the PnP game? You own original artbooks from the series? You know what Van Buren was supposed to be? Bottom line is they broke the continuity so badly that there isn't even any meaningful reference to lore from the other games, hence broken lore (no lore).

As for the GECK (yeah i'm still gonna call it that till the day i die, this is fallout not the bible), don't be surprised when suddenly you have to pay a monthly subscription to Bethesda to keep your game up to date.

ErosLogos wrote: Then write an article. I've been putting one off myself. Just for the record; I have in no way been defending Bethesda as such. If you look through my posts carefully, I have been pretty backhanded; in the end, I do agree they are scummy as a company, but what I am criticizing is people's expectations that a profit making company can behave in any other way.

I do, however, praise it's creative staff and largely stick up for their programmers; they're both doing as well as can be expected laboring under Bethesda's management, who have goals that inherently conflict with theirs.

I also call it the GECK, and think "Creation Kit" is stupid. But whatever.

I'll also be tackling a number of myths about New Vegas, such as the vaunted player freedom aspect. Bottom line? You didn't have as much freedom as you thought you did in New Vegas.

Oddball_E8 wrote: Hell, they pretty much broke the lore between 1 and 2...

But yeah, I wasn't fond of the pretty massive lore breaking that was going on in 3... but it's not like it was the first game to dump on the lore.

ErosLogos wrote: @Oddball_E8

Yeah, Black Isle Studios broke the lore in their own games. But maybe none of the lore is broken that badly; maybe it would make more sense for people to stop treating lore as unalterable holy writ. That it is mostly important to stick to the spirit of the lore as opposed to their word.

eros555 wrote: You need to stop butthurting kid.

baneburst wrote: I agree with that f4 f*#@ up the lore pretty bad but you cant pretend like interplay didnt f*#@ the lore just as bad after f2. fallout tactics had deathclaws with fur, BoS with enclave power armor and cars... Freakin cars, it was at least believable in f2 with fusion cell conversion thing but tactics literally threw working cars without any logic behind it.

Tbh bethesda did alot less worse than i thought they would by not introducing anything too radical, they didnt mention or deny any of the previous games, and in general they played it safe concerning the core themes of the series. I even like how they made the game look more 50's ish retro future than f3 or NV did. With all that said the flaws story/lore can forgiven and salvaged the true sin of bethesda is the striping of the RPG elements of the game, the forced narrative, lame radiant quest, dull characters, handicapped ai, and much more all waiting for the modders to pick up slack of the developers yet again. I consider the open beta of the creation kit the true release of fallout 4 and wish the best for the mod community.

Travis999 wrote: In terms of my major gripes,

+the stealthboy is a sphere, not a lunchbox,
+the assault rifle is the assault rifle not... whatever that is,
+changing ammo types is normal and shouldn't need a mod to do,
+a fireaxe or crowbar are standard wasteland hardware, again shouldn't have to get a mod for either,
+Survival mode worked just fine in New Vegas and should have been included from the very beginning,

Lastly, Fallout has always been and will always be primarily played by PC gamers, destroying a worthwhile concept in favour of increased sales and distribution is mistake.
If Fallout was meant to function and be modded on consoles, it would/should have been programmed using consoles.

Other than that, the game itself is rather buggy, but overall quite promising and not without creative merit.

Triaxx2 wrote: That Assault Rifle? F4's actually looks like some of the WW1 era machine guns, like the Lewis or the Maxim. That's why the big, weird looking barrel shroud. Technically should be a Light Machine Gun, rather than an Assault Rifle. Combat Rifle is what should be the Assault Rifle.

I have played 1,2,3 and Tactics. Don't own but have seen the art books. I do know what Van Buren was meant to be.

That said, while these might not have been the Fallouts we wanted, I'm glad to still be getting new Fallouts at all.

illovich wrote: You could always call it FOCK...

The only issue I have here is that Fallout 4 is not a primarily PC-played title. From the data I can scrape together, somewhere between 70 and 90% of sales were on consoles. Much as I love this series on PC, and couldn't imagine playing it anywhere else, the simple fact is that PC players are a minority group in the industry now. The most dedicated and often most passionate minority group, mind, but a minority nonetheless. My only hope is that they never completely take this or Elder Scrolls away from PC.

[ErosLogos]

In response to post #37090155. #37090490, #37091030, #37091305, #37092990, #37093400, #37093605, #37096005, #37098855, #37099635 are all replies on the same post.

Travis999 wrote: To all the Bethsoft fanboys...

Regarding the lore, if you're sooo knowledgeable, i suppose you've also played falout 1, 2, Tactics, 3 and the PnP game? You own original artbooks from the series? You know what Van Buren was supposed to be? Bottom line is they broke the continuity so badly that there isn't even any meaningful reference to lore from the other games, hence broken lore (no lore).

As for the GECK (yeah i'm still gonna call it that till the day i die, this is fallout not the bible), don't be surprised when suddenly you have to pay a monthly subscription to Bethesda to keep your game up to date.

ErosLogos wrote: Then write an article. I've been putting one off myself. Just for the record; I have in no way been defending Bethesda as such. If you look through my posts carefully, I have been pretty backhanded; in the end, I do agree they are scummy as a company, but what I am criticizing is people's expectations that a profit making company can behave in any other way.

I do, however, praise it's creative staff and largely stick up for their programmers; they're both doing as well as can be expected laboring under Bethesda's management, who have goals that inherently conflict with theirs.

I also call it the GECK, and think "Creation Kit" is stupid. But whatever.

I'll also be tackling a number of myths about New Vegas, such as the vaunted player freedom aspect. Bottom line? You didn't have as much freedom as you thought you did in New Vegas.

Oddball_E8 wrote: Hell, they pretty much broke the lore between 1 and 2...

But yeah, I wasn't fond of the pretty massive lore breaking that was going on in 3... but it's not like it was the first game to dump on the lore.

ErosLogos wrote: @Oddball_E8

Yeah, Black Isle Studios broke the lore in their own games. But maybe none of the lore is broken that badly; maybe it would make more sense for people to stop treating lore as unalterable holy writ. That it is mostly important to stick to the spirit of the lore as opposed to their word.

eros555 wrote: You need to stop butthurting kid.

baneburst wrote: I agree with that f4 f*#@ up the lore pretty bad but you cant pretend like interplay didnt f*#@ the lore just as bad after f2. fallout tactics had deathclaws with fur, BoS with enclave power armor and cars... Freakin cars, it was at least believable in f2 with fusion cell conversion thing but tactics literally threw working cars without any logic behind it.

Tbh bethesda did alot less worse than i thought they would by not introducing anything too radical, they didnt mention or deny any of the previous games, and in general they played it safe concerning the core themes of the series. I even like how they made the game look more 50's ish retro future than f3 or NV did. With all that said the flaws story/lore can forgiven and salvaged the true sin of bethesda is the striping of the RPG elements of the game, the forced narrative, lame radiant quest, dull characters, handicapped ai, and much more all waiting for the modders to pick up slack of the developers yet again. I consider the open beta of the creation kit the true release of fallout 4 and wish the best for the mod community.

Travis999 wrote: In terms of my major gripes,

+the stealthboy is a sphere, not a lunchbox,
+the assault rifle is the assault rifle not... whatever that is,
+changing ammo types is normal and shouldn't need a mod to do,
+a fireaxe or crowbar are standard wasteland hardware, again shouldn't have to get a mod for either,
+Survival mode worked just fine in New Vegas and should have been included from the very beginning,

Lastly, Fallout has always been and will always be primarily played by PC gamers, destroying a worthwhile concept in favour of increased sales and distribution is mistake.
If Fallout was meant to function and be modded on consoles, it would/should have been programmed using consoles.

Other than that, the game itself is rather buggy, but overall quite promising and not without creative merit.

Triaxx2 wrote: That Assault Rifle? F4's actually looks like some of the WW1 era machine guns, like the Lewis or the Maxim. That's why the big, weird looking barrel shroud. Technically should be a Light Machine Gun, rather than an Assault Rifle. Combat Rifle is what should be the Assault Rifle.

I have played 1,2,3 and Tactics. Don't own but have seen the art books. I do know what Van Buren was meant to be.

That said, while these might not have been the Fallouts we wanted, I'm glad to still be getting new Fallouts at all.

illovich wrote: You could always call it FOCK...

Nick_Revanstrafe wrote: The only issue I have here is that Fallout 4 is not a primarily PC-played title. From the data I can scrape together, somewhere between 70 and 90% of sales were on consoles. Much as I love this series on PC, and couldn't imagine playing it anywhere else, the simple fact is that PC players are a minority group in the industry now. The most dedicated and often most passionate minority group, mind, but a minority nonetheless. My only hope is that they never completely take this or Elder Scrolls away from PC.

@baneburst

What do you mean by "stripped out the RPG elements"? All the essential mechanics are there: leveling, experience points, skills, stats, etc. There is no rule that says that rpgs have to be turned-based or have poor real time combat. If you mean player freedom, player freedom isn't essential to roleplaying games. In fact, it doesn't exist; whether you play DnD or console/PC RPGs, you can only follow the path set for you. It makes no difference whether that path is set by game developers or a GM. If you are given choices, they are only apparent choices; different routes to the same destination. Even in New Vegas; Obsidian's clever writers do a good job of tricking the player into thinking they actually have choices.

As for forced narrative? That's a vague term; but I get the sense you feel as if any narrative is forced. Another thing; players who are parents or even just married felt the story was quite compelling. I am neither married or a parent, but I am inclined to agree with them.

While this game's companion characters are still not as deep as NV's, they are still a major step forward for Bethesda; certainly improvements over the one-dimensional meat shields of FO3. I am disappointed that our super mutant companion is a step down from Fawkes; I think there is a lot of missed opportunities with strong. The radiant quest system can be annoying, but thinking about it I would rather have FO4 with them than without them; it's hard to keep a regular supply of caps without them, esp. before you have a decent set of settlements with shops and the like.

I won't argue with the AI being s#*!, but a funny thing; on my very first playthrough, I had no AI issues. Everyone did what they were supposed to. It was after subsequent playthroughs that things got weird. So yeah, there is something that needs to be addressed. And I am certain they will be addressed by the modding community and Bethesda.

[theTATHmeister]

Hey, just curious if I can use NMM mods while on the 1.5 beta.

[ErosLogos]

In response to post #37090155. #37090490, #37091030, #37091305, #37092990, #37093400, #37093605, #37096005, #37098855, #37099635, #37100275 are all replies on the same post.

Travis999 wrote: To all the Bethsoft fanboys...

Regarding the lore, if you're sooo knowledgeable, i suppose you've also played falout 1, 2, Tactics, 3 and the PnP game? You own original artbooks from the series? You know what Van Buren was supposed to be? Bottom line is they broke the continuity so badly that there isn't even any meaningful reference to lore from the other games, hence broken lore (no lore).

As for the GECK (yeah i'm still gonna call it that till the day i die, this is fallout not the bible), don't be surprised when suddenly you have to pay a monthly subscription to Bethesda to keep your game up to date.

ErosLogos wrote: Then write an article. I've been putting one off myself. Just for the record; I have in no way been defending Bethesda as such. If you look through my posts carefully, I have been pretty backhanded; in the end, I do agree they are scummy as a company, but what I am criticizing is people's expectations that a profit making company can behave in any other way.

I do, however, praise it's creative staff and largely stick up for their programmers; they're both doing as well as can be expected laboring under Bethesda's management, who have goals that inherently conflict with theirs.

I also call it the GECK, and think "Creation Kit" is stupid. But whatever.

I'll also be tackling a number of myths about New Vegas, such as the vaunted player freedom aspect. Bottom line? You didn't have as much freedom as you thought you did in New Vegas.

Oddball_E8 wrote: Hell, they pretty much broke the lore between 1 and 2...

But yeah, I wasn't fond of the pretty massive lore breaking that was going on in 3... but it's not like it was the first game to dump on the lore.

ErosLogos wrote: @Oddball_E8

Yeah, Black Isle Studios broke the lore in their own games. But maybe none of the lore is broken that badly; maybe it would make more sense for people to stop treating lore as unalterable holy writ. That it is mostly important to stick to the spirit of the lore as opposed to their word.

eros555 wrote: You need to stop butthurting kid.

baneburst wrote: I agree with that f4 f*#@ up the lore pretty bad but you cant pretend like interplay didnt f*#@ the lore just as bad after f2. fallout tactics had deathclaws with fur, BoS with enclave power armor and cars... Freakin cars, it was at least believable in f2 with fusion cell conversion thing but tactics literally threw working cars without any logic behind it.

Tbh bethesda did alot less worse than i thought they would by not introducing anything too radical, they didnt mention or deny any of the previous games, and in general they played it safe concerning the core themes of the series. I even like how they made the game look more 50's ish retro future than f3 or NV did. With all that said the flaws story/lore can forgiven and salvaged the true sin of bethesda is the striping of the RPG elements of the game, the forced narrative, lame radiant quest, dull characters, handicapped ai, and much more all waiting for the modders to pick up slack of the developers yet again. I consider the open beta of the creation kit the true release of fallout 4 and wish the best for the mod community.

Travis999 wrote: In terms of my major gripes,

+the stealthboy is a sphere, not a lunchbox,
+the assault rifle is the assault rifle not... whatever that is,
+changing ammo types is normal and shouldn't need a mod to do,
+a fireaxe or crowbar are standard wasteland hardware, again shouldn't have to get a mod for either,
+Survival mode worked just fine in New Vegas and should have been included from the very beginning,

Lastly, Fallout has always been and will always be primarily played by PC gamers, destroying a worthwhile concept in favour of increased sales and distribution is mistake.
If Fallout was meant to function and be modded on consoles, it would/should have been programmed using consoles.

Other than that, the game itself is rather buggy, but overall quite promising and not without creative merit.

Triaxx2 wrote: That Assault Rifle? F4's actually looks like some of the WW1 era machine guns, like the Lewis or the Maxim. That's why the big, weird looking barrel shroud. Technically should be a Light Machine Gun, rather than an Assault Rifle. Combat Rifle is what should be the Assault Rifle.

I have played 1,2,3 and Tactics. Don't own but have seen the art books. I do know what Van Buren was meant to be.

That said, while these might not have been the Fallouts we wanted, I'm glad to still be getting new Fallouts at all.

illovich wrote: You could always call it FOCK...

Nick_Revanstrafe wrote: The only issue I have here is that Fallout 4 is not a primarily PC-played title. From the data I can scrape together, somewhere between 70 and 90% of sales were on consoles. Much as I love this series on PC, and couldn't imagine playing it anywhere else, the simple fact is that PC players are a minority group in the industry now. The most dedicated and often most passionate minority group, mind, but a minority nonetheless. My only hope is that they never completely take this or Elder Scrolls away from PC.

ErosLogos wrote: @baneburst

What do you mean by "stripped out the RPG elements"? All the essential mechanics are there: leveling, experience points, skills, stats, etc. There is no rule that says that rpgs have to be turned-based or have poor real time combat. If you mean player freedom, player freedom isn't essential to roleplaying games. In fact, it doesn't exist; whether you play DnD or console/PC RPGs, you can only follow the path set for you. It makes no difference whether that path is set by game developers or a GM. If you are given choices, they are only apparent choices; different routes to the same destination. Even in New Vegas; Obsidian's clever writers do a good job of tricking the player into thinking they actually have choices.

As for forced narrative? That's a vague term; but I get the sense you feel as if any narrative is forced. Another thing; players who are parents or even just married felt the story was quite compelling. I am neither married or a parent, but I am inclined to agree with them.

While this game's companion characters are still not as deep as NV's, they are still a major step forward for Bethesda; certainly improvements over the one-dimensional meat shields of FO3. I am disappointed that our super mutant companion is a step down from Fawkes; I think there is a lot of missed opportunities with strong. The radiant quest system can be annoying, but thinking about it I would rather have FO4 with them than without them; it's hard to keep a regular supply of caps without them, esp. before you have a decent set of settlements with shops and the like.

I won't argue with the AI being s#*!, but a funny thing; on my very first playthrough, I had no AI issues. Everyone did what they were supposed to. It was after subsequent playthroughs that things got weird. So yeah, there is something that needs to be addressed. And I am certain they will be addressed by the modding community and Bethesda.

@Nick_Revanstrafe

I wouldn't worry about this too much. The profits made from the consoles sales are more than enough to support making versions for PC. They still make plenty of money from us in the minority after all. Good job on the reality check for everyone here; fact is, PC players do not exist in large enough numbers to support a AAA company in the modern game industry.

[Phnx]

In response to post #37072310. #37072940, #37073560, #37080710, #37087165 are all replies on the same post.

Phnx wrote:

NMM does an incorrect formatting of the plugins.txt for the 1.5 beta!

 

The correct format is: e.g.

# This file is used by Fallout4 to keep track of your downloaded content.
# Please do not modify this file.
*ArmorKeywords.esm
*CROSS_CosmeticFramework.esm
*Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
*BetterModDescriptions.esp

Please note that the correct format has no "Fallout4.esm", "DLCRobot.esm" and "DLCworkshop01.esm" entries in the file and uses * !

SirSalami wrote:

In response to post #37072310.

Phnx wrote:

NMM does an incorrect formatting of the plugins.txt for the 1.5 beta!

The correct format is: e.g.

# This file is used by Fallout4 to keep track of your downloaded content.
# Please do not modify this file.
*ArmorKeywords.esm
*CROSS_CosmeticFramework.esm
*Unofficial Fallout 4 Patch.esp
*BetterModDescriptions.esp

Please note that the correct format has no "Fallout4.esm", "DLCRobot.esm" and "DLCworkshop01.esm" entries in the file and uses * !

Please update to NMM 0.61.20 here: http://nmm.nexusmods.com/Releases/4.5/Nexus%20Mod%20Manager-0.61.20.exe

Phnx wrote: Still does not wrong. How do I tell NMM that I'm using the beta?

DuskDweller wrote: I can't replicate this issue on 0.61.20 (nor 0.61.19), NMM properly ignores those plugins .
I also tried to manually sabotage it (adding those lines manually) but when I go into NMM and change something in the loadorder it will properly fix the file.

This is what NMM does on my system:

# This file is used by Fallout4 to keep track of your downloaded content.
# Please do not modify this file.
*Homemaker.esm
*SettlementKeywords.esm
*ArmorKeywords.esm
*Robot Home Defence.esm
*BetterGenerators.esp
*BetterModDescriptions.esp
*BetterSettlersNoLollygagging.esp
*BetterSettlers.esp
*ValdacilsItemSorting-00-ValsPicks.esp


These may be possible causes for your issue:
1. You're using an older NMM version
2. Another software is messing with it
3. NMM is not pointing to the FO4 beta or a legit FO4 exe .
4. Your system is preventing NMM from interacting with the plugins.txt file.
5. You're checking the wrong Plugins.txt file.

juanplay wrote: I have the same problem, NMM does not recognize that im the beta, it still shows DLC robot.esm and DLCWorkshop01.esm

Found the issue. I did a clean install and now it works. Thanks! :)

[GamingGeek2020]

In response to post #37089600. #37093165 is also a reply to the same post.

Gaming_Geek wrote: So I have to ask...

What do people normally see when they boot up the Bethesda program? Because all I see is the splash screen - that then does nothing.

Their forums aren't helping me solve this, my question was removed.

esrafael wrote: I had that problem, I had to go into my network settings and disable IPv6.

Well damn, that did it. Thank you!

[RadoGamer]

The new CK Wiki can be found here. This is different than the old Skyrim Wiki. http://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=Landing_page

[rayhne]

My plugin.txt does not have the asterisks; should I go in and add them or leave it be? Or is that just needed for the beta? Edited April 27, 2016 by rayhne

[miscdude]

In response to post #37095705. #37096075, #37096180 are all replies on the same post.

tygerchylde wrote: I am confused.

I am not on the Survival Beta. I am not on the 1.5 Beta. I manually install all of my mods. I don't plan to use the GECK myself, because modding is beyond me as I can't into scripts, textures or modelling.

Do I need to update my plugins.txt by adding asterisks and removing the vanilla .esm files, too?
Does it matter?

miscdude wrote: No, both versions are beta updates. As soon as the first official update drops, unless you disable updates, you will have to add asterisks into your plugins file unless they abandon that change.

tygerchylde wrote: So, would it make a difference if I did it now?
I guess so since the plugin handler hasn't changed yet.

Thanks for the reply!

If you go to the creation kit beta page (first link,) they detail out how to opt into the beta. My guess is that they'll have an official update roll out in a couple of weeks, but until then, if you haven't opted into either betas, don't see [beta] next to Fallout 4 in your library listing, then adding asterisks now would, I assume, break your load order. It might just handle them like a comment and ignore them, but I wouldn't go in and do it if you don't need to. There is a .bat file on the mod here on the nexus detailing how to re-enable mods for survival, and if you download that file it can go in and either asterisk everything for you or revert to a backup. Unless you have experienced issues today, I wouldn't worry about it.

[delanrobinson]

In response to post #37097840. #37099495 is also a reply to the same post.

delanrobinson wrote: *Help* I can run fallout 4 and do the usual business on the main menu but as soon as I load or create a a save It just cuts out and kicks me off. I have disabled all my mods on the Nexus MM and re-ticked the DLC files obviously all I have done is use the mod downloader in the main menu and downloaded a couple of mods " Does that work yet?" Please help me? I'm an idiot I know :D

izon87604 wrote: I coudlnt load a saved game or start a new one. so i deleted the ini files in my documents\my games\fallout 4. ran the games launcher so it would detect settings etc and therefore create new inis and then loaded up the game and now it all works. has to do this last time i updated

Thanks for the reply I will try this and get back to you