Fallout 4 Creation Kit Beta and an Important Notice to Survival Testers

[ErosLogos]

In response to post #37090155.

Travis999 wrote: To all the Bethsoft fanboys...

Regarding the lore, if you're sooo knowledgeable, i suppose you've also played falout 1, 2, Tactics, 3 and the PnP game? You own original artbooks from the series? You know what Van Buren was supposed to be? Bottom line is they broke the continuity so badly that there isn't even any meaningful reference to lore from the other games, hence broken lore (no lore).

As for the GECK (yeah i'm still gonna call it that till the day i die, this is fallout not the bible), don't be surprised when suddenly you have to pay a monthly subscription to Bethesda to keep your game up to date.

Then write an article. I've been putting one off myself. Just for the record; I have in no way been defending Bethesda as such. If you look through my posts carefully, I have been pretty backhanded; in the end, I do agree they are scummy as a company, but what I am criticizing is people's expectations that a profit making company can behave in any other way.

I do, however, praise it's creative staff and largely stick up for their programmers; they're both doing as well as can be expected laboring under Bethesda's management, who have goals that inherently conflict with theirs.

I also call it the GECK, and think "Creation Kit" is stupid. But whatever.

I'll also be tackling a number of myths about New Vegas, such as the vaunted player freedom aspect. Bottom line? You didn't have as much freedom as you thought you did in New Vegas. Edited April 27, 2016 by ErosLogos

[ErosLogos]

In response to post #37064095. #37064415, #37065340, #37065605, #37065985, #37075475, #37076185, #37077320, #37077780, #37080260, #37087740, #37088035, #37088850 are all replies on the same post.

jpsimonetti wrote: Experiment in imagination - Picture those sales numbers from last year if Bethesda admitted to the world the Creation Kit wouldn't be available until May of 2016. That was a whole lot of dirty sales tactics to not admit the lifeblood of all Bethesda games - modding - would be stifled for 6 months, twice as long as even New Vegas (which was worth waiting for).

Sevaanos wrote: I remember them saying that the CK wouldn't be out till Spring of 2016, and guess what, its spring of 2016. So I say they were pretty on point.

jpsimonetti wrote: "The Fallout 4 Creation Kit, the software tool that allows PC modders to go wild, is set to arrive at the beginning of 2016."

Repeat in every news article from September 2015 through January of 2016.

In February, it was announced that the CK was being released in April, starting with the PC, then moving to consoles.

Pretty sure Fallout 4 had been out for 3 months by then. They let us believe it would be around in January - until January actually arrived. That is an underhanded sales tactic. They know how the modding community makes their games what they are. They basically promised their game would get better in 3 months after release. Aaaand nope.

Samurok wrote: actually no, only some people believed it was coming in january based on the "begining of 2016" part. well its april, the 4th month of the year...so yeah, still the begining. think about it for a sec

ErosLogos wrote: Please don't get a swollen head.

I played the game three times before I got into modding, so I thought Fallout 4 was pretty much the greatest game I ever played then. I like mods, but I hate how so many users and modders have these enormous egos, thinking themselves as the reason why any Bethesda game is good. Guess what?

The game was pretty much fun without mods.

I get mods to make the game more fun to play. Not to fix a broken game.

As for dirty sales techniques? No such thing as a dirty sales technique; capitalism is an inherently underhanded and dishonest system. As long as it isn't explicitly illegal, anything goes. It's the name of the game. But I'd say it was technically on point; it arrived at the end of April, juusstt within the early 2016 window.

By the way, New Vegas was made by Obsidian; Bethesda had nothing to do with it. And while I liked New Vegas, and think it was this great game, I don't get how everyone is suddenly dickriding it. I remember when it wasn't all that popular to say that you liked it.

Taiolu wrote: Because new vegas followed lore the best it can. Where as bethesda stopped being able to do lore well ever since oblivion.

Sytron wrote: It was originally said it would be released in the "First Quarter" of 2016. Which is a 3 month time frame, this is already into the second quarter and not near the beginning either. So the OP has a valid point about time frames.

Aikospacerogue wrote: Why, why do those months mater if they'd bought it anyway its not like the game had any kind of sale, if anything the'd be lucky they picked up the Season pass early before the price went up. Does it make any difference ? It sure doesn't to your wallet.

No to mention the Dev's are really really busy with several IP's ,this devkit, AND making it so mods can go on concoles, this isn't a small feat you know, I'm sure they didn't enjoy delaying, its not something anyone enjoys at all. the Devs like mods too, or they wouldn't be doing this.

cjqnsnyc wrote: It's here NOW, so enjoy it.

They didn't HAVE to give us ANYTHING you know. Not to mention the fact that it's FREE.

Again, it's here now. Just think of all the great mods that will come instead of going on the offensive against one of the few companies that support pc modding, okay?

vlaka wrote: ugh just way too many fanboys justifying Bethesda's scummy tactics.
>.<

Wonder how they're going to justify paid mods.

ErosLogos wrote: I think Fallout 4 followed the lore just fine. And I've played Fallout New Vegas.

J.O.D. wrote: [sarcasm]Yes, and of course it has nothing to do with a possibility that things got more complicated both on Creation Kit and Bethesda.net sites, so that that the mod support and CK had to be postponed untill it actually worked at least as beta...[sarcasm/]

jake1976 wrote: Wow such an un-original insult, Fanboy. You do realize they dont have to allow us to mod the game. They dont have release the content creator for free.

@vlaka Gladly.

Personally I am against paid mods, but look at it this way. They're hosting Bethesda.net mods on their servers; servers that they own. You'd only access them with their permission; their servers are their property. In addition, modders content is only hosted there with Bethesda's permission. Content must comply with their rules, which they are in their rights to set. They are well within their rights to start charging access fees to users and rent to modders; considering the server load and the costs of upgrading to something that can handle it, it would make sense from their perspective. Besides, modders might want to be compensated; even if it is a hobby, it is a time and labor consuming one. It'd be nice to be paid for their work, don't you think?

But I am against paid modding. Just pointing out that there is a solid case for it.

[OddballE8]

In response to post #37090155. #37090490 is also a reply to the same post.

Travis999 wrote: To all the Bethsoft fanboys...

Regarding the lore, if you're sooo knowledgeable, i suppose you've also played falout 1, 2, Tactics, 3 and the PnP game? You own original artbooks from the series? You know what Van Buren was supposed to be? Bottom line is they broke the continuity so badly that there isn't even any meaningful reference to lore from the other games, hence broken lore (no lore).

As for the GECK (yeah i'm still gonna call it that till the day i die, this is fallout not the bible), don't be surprised when suddenly you have to pay a monthly subscription to Bethesda to keep your game up to date.

ErosLogos wrote: Then write an article. I've been putting one off myself. Just for the record; I have in no way been defending Bethesda as such. If you look through my posts carefully, I have been pretty backhanded; in the end, I do agree they are scummy as a company, but what I am criticizing is people's expectations that a profit making company can behave in any other way.

I do, however, praise it's creative staff and largely stick up for their programmers; they're both doing as well as can be expected laboring under Bethesda's management, who have goals that inherently conflict with theirs.

I also call it the GECK, and think "Creation Kit" is stupid. But whatever.

I'll also be tackling a number of myths about New Vegas, such as the vaunted player freedom aspect. Bottom line? You didn't have as much freedom as you thought you did in New Vegas.

Hell, they pretty much broke the lore between 1 and 2...

But yeah, I wasn't fond of the pretty massive lore breaking that was going on in 3... but it's not like it was the first game to dump on the lore.

[OddballE8]

In response to post #37079190.

jacko6400 wrote: not sure if you guys are using multiple masters in the geck, if so, you need to add bAllowMultipleMasterLoads=1 in creationkit.ini

Thanks. Did a quick check for it in the .ini files this morning and noticed it wasn't in them, but I didn't have time to add it and test before going to work.

[ErosLogos]

In response to post #37090155. #37090490, #37091030 are all replies on the same post.

Travis999 wrote: To all the Bethsoft fanboys...

Regarding the lore, if you're sooo knowledgeable, i suppose you've also played falout 1, 2, Tactics, 3 and the PnP game? You own original artbooks from the series? You know what Van Buren was supposed to be? Bottom line is they broke the continuity so badly that there isn't even any meaningful reference to lore from the other games, hence broken lore (no lore).

As for the GECK (yeah i'm still gonna call it that till the day i die, this is fallout not the bible), don't be surprised when suddenly you have to pay a monthly subscription to Bethesda to keep your game up to date.

ErosLogos wrote: Then write an article. I've been putting one off myself. Just for the record; I have in no way been defending Bethesda as such. If you look through my posts carefully, I have been pretty backhanded; in the end, I do agree they are scummy as a company, but what I am criticizing is people's expectations that a profit making company can behave in any other way.

I do, however, praise it's creative staff and largely stick up for their programmers; they're both doing as well as can be expected laboring under Bethesda's management, who have goals that inherently conflict with theirs.

I also call it the GECK, and think "Creation Kit" is stupid. But whatever.

I'll also be tackling a number of myths about New Vegas, such as the vaunted player freedom aspect. Bottom line? You didn't have as much freedom as you thought you did in New Vegas.

Oddball_E8 wrote: Hell, they pretty much broke the lore between 1 and 2...

But yeah, I wasn't fond of the pretty massive lore breaking that was going on in 3... but it's not like it was the first game to dump on the lore.

@Oddball_E8

Yeah, Black Isle Studios broke the lore in their own games. But maybe none of the lore is broken that badly; maybe it would make more sense for people to stop treating lore as unalterable holy writ. That it is mostly important to stick to the spirit of the lore as opposed to their word.

[eros555]

In response to post #37090155. #37090490, #37091030, #37091305 are all replies on the same post.

Travis999 wrote: To all the Bethsoft fanboys...

Regarding the lore, if you're sooo knowledgeable, i suppose you've also played falout 1, 2, Tactics, 3 and the PnP game? You own original artbooks from the series? You know what Van Buren was supposed to be? Bottom line is they broke the continuity so badly that there isn't even any meaningful reference to lore from the other games, hence broken lore (no lore).

As for the GECK (yeah i'm still gonna call it that till the day i die, this is fallout not the bible), don't be surprised when suddenly you have to pay a monthly subscription to Bethesda to keep your game up to date.

ErosLogos wrote: Then write an article. I've been putting one off myself. Just for the record; I have in no way been defending Bethesda as such. If you look through my posts carefully, I have been pretty backhanded; in the end, I do agree they are scummy as a company, but what I am criticizing is people's expectations that a profit making company can behave in any other way.

I do, however, praise it's creative staff and largely stick up for their programmers; they're both doing as well as can be expected laboring under Bethesda's management, who have goals that inherently conflict with theirs.

I also call it the GECK, and think "Creation Kit" is stupid. But whatever.

I'll also be tackling a number of myths about New Vegas, such as the vaunted player freedom aspect. Bottom line? You didn't have as much freedom as you thought you did in New Vegas.

Oddball_E8 wrote: Hell, they pretty much broke the lore between 1 and 2...

But yeah, I wasn't fond of the pretty massive lore breaking that was going on in 3... but it's not like it was the first game to dump on the lore.

ErosLogos wrote: @Oddball_E8

Yeah, Black Isle Studios broke the lore in their own games. But maybe none of the lore is broken that badly; maybe it would make more sense for people to stop treating lore as unalterable holy writ. That it is mostly important to stick to the spirit of the lore as opposed to their word.

You need to stop butthurting kid.

[esrafael]

In response to post #37089600.

Gaming_Geek wrote: So I have to ask...

What do people normally see when they boot up the Bethesda program? Because all I see is the splash screen - that then does nothing.

Their forums aren't helping me solve this, my question was removed.

I had that problem, I had to go into my network settings and disable IPv6.

[baneburst]

In response to post #37090155. #37090490, #37091030, #37091305, #37092990 are all replies on the same post.

Travis999 wrote: To all the Bethsoft fanboys...

Regarding the lore, if you're sooo knowledgeable, i suppose you've also played falout 1, 2, Tactics, 3 and the PnP game? You own original artbooks from the series? You know what Van Buren was supposed to be? Bottom line is they broke the continuity so badly that there isn't even any meaningful reference to lore from the other games, hence broken lore (no lore).

As for the GECK (yeah i'm still gonna call it that till the day i die, this is fallout not the bible), don't be surprised when suddenly you have to pay a monthly subscription to Bethesda to keep your game up to date.

ErosLogos wrote: Then write an article. I've been putting one off myself. Just for the record; I have in no way been defending Bethesda as such. If you look through my posts carefully, I have been pretty backhanded; in the end, I do agree they are scummy as a company, but what I am criticizing is people's expectations that a profit making company can behave in any other way.

I do, however, praise it's creative staff and largely stick up for their programmers; they're both doing as well as can be expected laboring under Bethesda's management, who have goals that inherently conflict with theirs.

I also call it the GECK, and think "Creation Kit" is stupid. But whatever.

I'll also be tackling a number of myths about New Vegas, such as the vaunted player freedom aspect. Bottom line? You didn't have as much freedom as you thought you did in New Vegas.

Oddball_E8 wrote: Hell, they pretty much broke the lore between 1 and 2...

But yeah, I wasn't fond of the pretty massive lore breaking that was going on in 3... but it's not like it was the first game to dump on the lore.

ErosLogos wrote: @Oddball_E8

Yeah, Black Isle Studios broke the lore in their own games. But maybe none of the lore is broken that badly; maybe it would make more sense for people to stop treating lore as unalterable holy writ. That it is mostly important to stick to the spirit of the lore as opposed to their word.

eros555 wrote: You need to stop butthurting kid.

I agree with that f4 f*#@ up the lore pretty bad but you cant pretend like interplay didnt f*#@ the lore just as bad after f2. fallout tactics had deathclaws with fur, BoS with enclave power armor and cars... Freakin cars, it was at least believable in f2 with fusion cell conversion thing but tactics literally threw working cars without any logic behind it.

Tbh bethesda did alot less worse than i thought they would by not introducing anything too radical, they didnt mention or deny any of the previous games, and in general they played it safe concerning the core themes of the series. I even like how they made the game look more 50's ish retro future than f3 or NV did. With all that said the flaws story/lore can forgiven and salvaged the true sin of bethesda is the striping of the RPG elements of the game, the forced narrative, lame radiant quest, dull characters, handicapped ai, and much more all waiting for the modders to pick up slack of the developers yet again. I consider the open beta of the creation kit the true release of fallout 4 and wish the best for the mod community.

[Travis999]

In response to post #37090155. #37090490, #37091030, #37091305, #37092990, #37093400 are all replies on the same post.

Travis999 wrote: To all the Bethsoft fanboys...

Regarding the lore, if you're sooo knowledgeable, i suppose you've also played falout 1, 2, Tactics, 3 and the PnP game? You own original artbooks from the series? You know what Van Buren was supposed to be? Bottom line is they broke the continuity so badly that there isn't even any meaningful reference to lore from the other games, hence broken lore (no lore).

As for the GECK (yeah i'm still gonna call it that till the day i die, this is fallout not the bible), don't be surprised when suddenly you have to pay a monthly subscription to Bethesda to keep your game up to date.

ErosLogos wrote: Then write an article. I've been putting one off myself. Just for the record; I have in no way been defending Bethesda as such. If you look through my posts carefully, I have been pretty backhanded; in the end, I do agree they are scummy as a company, but what I am criticizing is people's expectations that a profit making company can behave in any other way.

I do, however, praise it's creative staff and largely stick up for their programmers; they're both doing as well as can be expected laboring under Bethesda's management, who have goals that inherently conflict with theirs.

I also call it the GECK, and think "Creation Kit" is stupid. But whatever.

I'll also be tackling a number of myths about New Vegas, such as the vaunted player freedom aspect. Bottom line? You didn't have as much freedom as you thought you did in New Vegas.

Oddball_E8 wrote: Hell, they pretty much broke the lore between 1 and 2...

But yeah, I wasn't fond of the pretty massive lore breaking that was going on in 3... but it's not like it was the first game to dump on the lore.

ErosLogos wrote: @Oddball_E8

Yeah, Black Isle Studios broke the lore in their own games. But maybe none of the lore is broken that badly; maybe it would make more sense for people to stop treating lore as unalterable holy writ. That it is mostly important to stick to the spirit of the lore as opposed to their word.

eros555 wrote: You need to stop butthurting kid.

baneburst wrote: I agree with that f4 f*#@ up the lore pretty bad but you cant pretend like interplay didnt f*#@ the lore just as bad after f2. fallout tactics had deathclaws with fur, BoS with enclave power armor and cars... Freakin cars, it was at least believable in f2 with fusion cell conversion thing but tactics literally threw working cars without any logic behind it.

Tbh bethesda did alot less worse than i thought they would by not introducing anything too radical, they didnt mention or deny any of the previous games, and in general they played it safe concerning the core themes of the series. I even like how they made the game look more 50's ish retro future than f3 or NV did. With all that said the flaws story/lore can forgiven and salvaged the true sin of bethesda is the striping of the RPG elements of the game, the forced narrative, lame radiant quest, dull characters, handicapped ai, and much more all waiting for the modders to pick up slack of the developers yet again. I consider the open beta of the creation kit the true release of fallout 4 and wish the best for the mod community.

In terms of my major gripes,

+the stealthboy is a sphere, not a lunchbox,
+the assault rifle is the assault rifle not... whatever that is,
+changing ammo types is normal and shouldn't need a mod to do,
+a fireaxe or crowbar are standard wasteland hardware, again shouldn't have to get a mod for either,
+Survival mode worked just fine in New Vegas and should have been included from the very beginning,

Lastly, Fallout has always been and will always be primarily played by PC gamers, destroying a worthwhile concept in favour of increased sales and distribution is mistake.
If Fallout was meant to function and be modded on consoles, it would/should have been programmed using consoles.

Other than that, the game itself is rather buggy, but overall quite promising and not without creative merit.

[Cepherit]

In response to post #37085455. #37086305, #37089565 are all replies on the same post.

Cepherit wrote: Can Survival Beta testers use mods now?

CausticFox98 wrote: Yeah

DavyJ12 wrote: They could always use mods.

No man, esp.-files were disabled by the survival beta patch for clean testing.
Is that still so? I've loaded up Homemaker and several other mods yet there are no changes so it would seem so. Could anyone confirm this, or is it just my settings that are messed up?