Transgender Our rights as opposed to those who look the part.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

Trans men are men; trans women are women. Simple. It's only confusing if you're coming from a bigoted standpoint to begin with.

Lets not get into a contest of terminologies here. I'm transgender and I call myself male to female transgender because the first is what people percieve and the last is what I am. I don't think that bigots are confused about anything, because they seem to be the one's who refuse the terminology and claim that I am confused because I think I'm a women and I clearly look like a man, to them.

 

All you have to do is look between your legs, and you should realize that you are indeed a man.

 

Can you tell the state of the mind from the exterior? What is there is in a realm all it's own.

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

Trans men are men; trans women are women. Simple. It's only confusing if you're coming from a bigoted standpoint to begin with.

Lets not get into a contest of terminologies here. I'm transgender and I call myself male to female transgender because the first is what people percieve and the last is what I am. I don't think that bigots are confused about anything, because they seem to be the one's who refuse the terminology and claim that I am confused because I think I'm a women and I clearly look like a man, to them.

 

All you have to do is look between your legs, and you should realize that you are indeed a man.

 

Can you tell the state of the mind from the exterior? What is there is in a realm all it's own.

 

But changes nothing. You are still male. That is physiology, not psychology.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

 

 

Trans men are men; trans women are women. Simple. It's only confusing if you're coming from a bigoted standpoint to begin with.

Lets not get into a contest of terminologies here. I'm transgender and I call myself male to female transgender because the first is what people percieve and the last is what I am. I don't think that bigots are confused about anything, because they seem to be the one's who refuse the terminology and claim that I am confused because I think I'm a women and I clearly look like a man, to them.

 

All you have to do is look between your legs, and you should realize that you are indeed a man.

 

Can you tell the state of the mind from the exterior? What is there is in a realm all it's own.

 

But changes nothing. You are still male. That is physiology, not psychology.

 

Yes it changes everything, since the mind controls everything, including the perceptions of ourselves and the outside world. I'm fairly sure there have been brain scans that activly map the brain activity of homosexual and hetrosexual people, as well as transgender and from what I remember each brain paterns were unique, though I think that gays came close to that of the opposite sex. It's been a while since I looked into it.

[JimboUK]

 

 

 

 

 

Trans men are men; trans women are women. Simple. It's only confusing if you're coming from a bigoted standpoint to begin with.

Lets not get into a contest of terminologies here. I'm transgender and I call myself male to female transgender because the first is what people percieve and the last is what I am. I don't think that bigots are confused about anything, because they seem to be the one's who refuse the terminology and claim that I am confused because I think I'm a women and I clearly look like a man, to them.

 

All you have to do is look between your legs, and you should realize that you are indeed a man.

 

Can you tell the state of the mind from the exterior? What is there is in a realm all it's own.

 

But changes nothing. You are still male. That is physiology, not psychology.

 

Yes it changes everything, since the mind controls everything, including the perceptions of ourselves and the outside world. I'm fairly sure there have been brain scans that activly map the brain activity of homosexual and hetrosexual people, as well as transgender and from what I remember each brain paterns were unique, though I think that gays came close to that of the opposite sex. It's been a while since I looked into it.

 

 

If my mind tells me I'm a banana it doesn't actually make me one.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trans men are men; trans women are women. Simple. It's only confusing if you're coming from a bigoted standpoint to begin with.

Lets not get into a contest of terminologies here. I'm transgender and I call myself male to female transgender because the first is what people percieve and the last is what I am. I don't think that bigots are confused about anything, because they seem to be the one's who refuse the terminology and claim that I am confused because I think I'm a women and I clearly look like a man, to them.

 

All you have to do is look between your legs, and you should realize that you are indeed a man.

 

Can you tell the state of the mind from the exterior? What is there is in a realm all it's own.

 

But changes nothing. You are still male. That is physiology, not psychology.

 

Yes it changes everything, since the mind controls everything, including the perceptions of ourselves and the outside world. I'm fairly sure there have been brain scans that activly map the brain activity of homosexual and hetrosexual people, as well as transgender and from what I remember each brain paterns were unique, though I think that gays came close to that of the opposite sex. It's been a while since I looked into it.

 

 

If my mind tells me I'm a banana it doesn't actually make me one.

I'm not going down this road with you guys if you are going to reach to the extremes with this. We are talking about human beings here. To take this into the realm of fruit is simply disrespect for the issue. I'm sorry that some of you can't understand this, but I'm not advocating it, just trying to explain what it is.

 

My original post was about disrespecting women who look the part and those, like me but only think of themselves. I think I've made myself clear here.

[HeyYou]

The thing is, your perception of yourself isn't going to change anyone elses perception of you. If you go to the ladies john, and whip out your schlong, the ladies are going to take issue with that. (the ones with the correct equipment.) Go into the mens room, and no one will even bat an eye.

 

Sure, brain scans are going to come up differently for people that have different views of themselves. I would even expect that you would get different results if you re-scanned the same folks periodically over time. (years.) That doesn't really prove anything. I would be much more interested in a comparison of blood chemistry, and the levels of selected hormones..... :)

 

Your sex is a physical trait. it's not something you can simply decide to change, and expect society at large to accept it. Your brain activity has absolutely nothing to do with what is between your legs, as that can't change it either.

[kvnchrist]

The thing is, your perception of yourself isn't going to change anyone elses perception of you. If you go to the ladies john, and whip out your schlong, the ladies are going to take issue with that. (the ones with the correct equipment.) Go into the mens room, and no one will even bat an eye.

 

Sure, brain scans are going to come up differently for people that have different views of themselves. I would even expect that you would get different results if you re-scanned the same folks periodically over time. (years.) That doesn't really prove anything. I would be much more interested in a comparison of blood chemistry, and the levels of selected hormones..... :smile:

 

Your sex is a physical trait. it's not something you can simply decide to change, and expect society at large to accept it. Your brain activity has absolutely nothing to do with what is between your legs, as that can't change it either.

Congradulations. You've just said the same thing I did in my original post. I never have been and never will be for making other women uncomfortable and I've never been uncomfortable in using the men's room.

 

When did I say anything about wanting others to accept me? I think you came into this conversation with a preset ideal of my attitude here and your assumptions about me are way off. I am not a liberal and I damn sure am not an activist or and advocate for anything other than common sense and that common sense tells me that transgender people will have to go the extra mile to gain acceptance in this world. We have no right to push our way into society or demand that others move over for us and I posted the OP to reflect that.

 

I

[sunshinenbrick]

Gender is only one among many ways to differentiate between people, and likewise it is somewhat arbitrary in defining the personality or predisposition of said people.

 

As touched upon earlier (no pun intended!), just because I may where a dress when I go to the bathroom doesn't make me any more likely to be a 'risk' than if I wore a baseball cap and jeans. Adopting some such stereotypes for a second, I would in fact argue that empirically the exact opposite is usually true and it is the 'quiet one in the corner' who looks 'normal' that is the one you should be worried about. I mean look at the Church for example...unsettling business happens anyway as things are, and always have. There is a case to say that the increased openness in society might actually help, but as stated, mindsets (and physio-sets) can be slow to change. Very slow. But different we are, and conflict in our nature.

 

Now all this is of course actually a slightly different argument to the one about governments that make blanket decisions for people and then imposes it upon them, even when it actually only aggravates the situation. This is an issue that spreads into many aspects of society and I worry such legislation is really more a method of assimilation than it is upholding the rights of any person or people. It is important to distinguish between that which we are 'supposed to think' and that which we arrive at on our own, because otherwise we may actually end up promoting the loss of the very values we claim to hold dear.

 

'Freedom isn't free'

[RattleAndGrind]

:rolleyes: Don't blame the censors, I'm pretty sure Robin set them up ages ago and hasn't ever really updated them except to take "loverslab" off the list. On the other hand getting irate because you can't use a taboo word doesn't really paint you in the most sympathetic light.

 

Actually, any list of proscribed verbiage is unrealistic. The list here is primarily based on British and American English with a bit of "strine" thrown in for good measure.

 

But this is a multilingual forum. I have seen and participated in several Spanish based language discussions and some of them were quite ... ah ... colorful.

 

And what is worse, words that are fine in one language can be a proscribed word in another language when typed phonetically on a 101-keyboard.

 

So realistically, any list of proscribed words is really a fools dream. The list is simply too big and grows too rapidly.

[Harbringe]

 

The thing is, your perception of yourself isn't going to change anyone elses perception of you. If you go to the ladies john, and whip out your schlong, the ladies are going to take issue with that. (the ones with the correct equipment.) Go into the mens room, and no one will even bat an eye.

 

Sure, brain scans are going to come up differently for people that have different views of themselves. I would even expect that you would get different results if you re-scanned the same folks periodically over time. (years.) That doesn't really prove anything. I would be much more interested in a comparison of blood chemistry, and the levels of selected hormones..... :smile:

 

Your sex is a physical trait. it's not something you can simply decide to change, and expect society at large to accept it. Your brain activity has absolutely nothing to do with what is between your legs, as that can't change it either.

Congradulations. You've just said the same thing I did in my original post. I never have been and never will be for making other women uncomfortable and I've never been uncomfortable in using the men's room.

 

When did I say anything about wanting others to accept me? I think you came into this conversation with a preset ideal of my attitude here and your assumptions about me are way off. I am not a liberal and I damn sure am not an activist or and advocate for anything other than common sense and that common sense tells me that transgender people will have to go the extra mile to gain acceptance in this world. We have no right to push our way into society or demand that others move over for us and I posted the OP to reflect that.

 

Kvn is right he never once said how or what he is should be imposed on another in anyway . As for the physiology of ones sex vs mind/neurology of their sex there has been differences found , but as to why or how that happens nothing concrete has ever been established.

 

In my days at University there were two studies I saw on brain development , one specifically is relateable to this thread.

 

In South-east Asia (particularly India) there is a transgender community that goes back 4000 years. So in about 1983 the Indian Gov't commissioned a study to see if their brains were any different than heterosexual people , both male and female. The study involved taking 3500 male cadaver brains (control group) , 3500 female cadaver brains (control group) and 3500 transgender brains (focus group) and slicing each section of these brains into microscope slide pieces to be studied for any structural or neurological differences , it took 12 years to complete this study. Now I can't remember all the results (so long ago) but there were both structural and neurological differences in the trans brains and the control groups of male and female and they did lean more to a female leaning (but not always). Also there was one interesting finding , when they took the results of these 3 different groups and combined the structural/neurological markers by which they made determinations of feminine/masculine , they found the percentages almost matched the poplution of Indian society at large , it was an unexpected eureka moment that they did not expect.

 

Also the above was done on adult cadaver brains and that in no way explains how it came to be , just that it does exist.

 

Now this leads to the second part . It seems we have people out there that are initiating public policy of some very spurious claims , they are generally coming from your feminists/gender/SJW study types of people and their claims are beginning to give actual scientists pause , because if you think about it these people are really no more than social studies people (a subjective study) , practicing pseudoscience. Here is a paper on actual scientists and what they have to say and a little video that has been made.

 

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/number-50-fall-2016

 

 

So as these scientists say there is no evidence on a number of things people are doing in regard to transgenderism , as in public policy or private opinion. Many just seem to be taking some bit of data and running off or making assumptions as to what it means. This is a poor way to be implementing public policy or private actions. Personally I think this type of thinking is gonna lead to a generation of really screwed up people.