Future of EU...

[JimboUK]

 

What do you think the likelihood of a second Brexit vote is? I see all the folks that were on the losing side complaining, and claiming a second vote (that presumably votes to stay in the EU) would 'prove that democracy works', or some such nonsense..... So, what do they plan? Keep calling for new votes, until they get the result they want, and call it "a victory for democracy"??? That seems really hypocritical to me.

 

 

No sensible person thinks a second referendum is on and if there was one people would likely vote to leave in greater numbers, Remains campaign was built around fear, post vote it's been accepted that most of it was nonsense. I wouldn't take any notice of our media, they like the politicians are in a panic, not so much about the EU, more that people have stopped listening to them.

 

The UK government are in large part accountable for the problems of this country. Sorry if people cannot cope with that fact but you need a reality check.

 

Yeah by hell the EU has issues but so do all the individual countries. Passing the blame around is a political game, don't play it. Many people seem to think they can vote on a limited scope of decisions now and again expecting all to be rosy. Does 'democracy' make the 'other side's wrong? Not in a half and half split it doesn't, if ever. If it does then it becomes as meaningless as any other regime.

 

People need to wake the hell up and smell the coffee and stop getting on a high horse. The problems are complex and challenging, calling a second vote won't change things but neither will blowing off the discussion and then being first in line to complain when the novelty wears off and there is something else to complain about.

 

Nobody thinks everything is going to be rosy, the difference now is that we can remove a government if we don't like it.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

What do you think the likelihood of a second Brexit vote is? I see all the folks that were on the losing side complaining, and claiming a second vote (that presumably votes to stay in the EU) would 'prove that democracy works', or some such nonsense..... So, what do they plan? Keep calling for new votes, until they get the result they want, and call it "a victory for democracy"??? That seems really hypocritical to me.

 

No sensible person thinks a second referendum is on and if there was one people would likely vote to leave in greater numbers, Remains campaign was built around fear, post vote it's been accepted that most of it was nonsense. I wouldn't take any notice of our media, they like the politicians are in a panic, not so much about the EU, more that people have stopped listening to them.

 

The UK government are in large part accountable for the problems of this country. Sorry if people cannot cope with that fact but you need a reality check.

Yeah by hell the EU has issues but so do all the individual countries. Passing the blame around is a political game, don't play it. Many people seem to think they can vote on a limited scope of decisions now and again expecting all to be rosy. Does 'democracy' make the 'other side's wrong? Not in a half and half split it doesn't, if ever. If it does then it becomes as meaningless as any other regime.

People need to wake the hell up and smell the coffee and stop getting on a high horse. The problems are complex and challenging, calling a second vote won't change things but neither will blowing off the discussion and then being first in line to complain when the novelty wears off and there is something else to complain about.

 

Nobody thinks everything is going to be rosy, the difference now is that we can remove a government if we don't like it.

The leave campaign was equally based on fear.

 

Who can we trust to replace them with?

[JimboUK]

 

 

What do you think the likelihood of a second Brexit vote is? I see all the folks that were on the losing side complaining, and claiming a second vote (that presumably votes to stay in the EU) would 'prove that democracy works', or some such nonsense..... So, what do they plan? Keep calling for new votes, until they get the result they want, and call it "a victory for democracy"??? That seems really hypocritical to me.

No sensible person thinks a second referendum is on and if there was one people would likely vote to leave in greater numbers, Remains campaign was built around fear, post vote it's been accepted that most of it was nonsense. I wouldn't take any notice of our media, they like the politicians are in a panic, not so much about the EU, more that people have stopped listening to them.

 

The UK government are in large part accountable for the problems of this country. Sorry if people cannot cope with that fact but you need a reality check.

Yeah by hell the EU has issues but so do all the individual countries. Passing the blame around is a political game, don't play it. Many people seem to think they can vote on a limited scope of decisions now and again expecting all to be rosy. Does 'democracy' make the 'other side's wrong? Not in a half and half split it doesn't, if ever. If it does then it becomes as meaningless as any other regime.

People need to wake the hell up and smell the coffee and stop getting on a high horse. The problems are complex and challenging, calling a second vote won't change things but neither will blowing off the discussion and then being first in line to complain when the novelty wears off and there is something else to complain about.

Nobody thinks everything is going to be rosy, the difference now is that we can remove a government if we don't like it.

The leave campaign was equally based on fear.

 

Who can we trust to replace them with?

 

 

I am not explaining the basics of parliamentary democracy to you.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

 

I had to ROFL at Drake's bellyaching about ''realizing all the things you blamed the EU for were not their doing at all to begin with'', because it took even this thick English peasant a mere ten seconds to come up with British industries trashed by EU policies.

 

- As a result of the common fisheries policy, our trawler fleet has to tie up and is not allowed to earn a living most of the year, unless they have really large vessels capable of getting to the Grand Banks off Newfoundland. Because the British were never actually the naughty child of Europe as all you Europhiles like to tell it, we solemnly obeyed the rules whilst the Spanish plunder our waters with illegal small mesh nets and destroy the fish stocks. Oh to be at the harbourside in Brixham or Newlyn now when one of the Spanish boats tries to dock...those Devon and Cornwall boys are so pissed that they sailed up the Thames the other week, only to be abused by Saint Bob Geldof. I daresay they taught him a new word or two.

 

- In spite of the farming subsidies, the CAP and EU competition rules have cut a swathe through our farming industry. Not so long ago we could have been self sufficient in, for example, dairy products, but were forced to allow unrestricted imports of European product. And then there was the foot and mouth epidemic, in which I was involved as a member of the hunting community who had the distasteful task of assisting with the cull. One evening a Ministry vet who was in the pub with us was holding forth about how "they've got it all over Western Europe but call it staggers (a less serious animal disease) so as to avoid movement restrictions and a mass cull like the one we've been doing today." We hadn't had foot and mouth for years and then farmers got the fad for these continental breeds and all of a sudden back it was. Coincidence?

 

- The EU have stood by and done nothing whilst our steel and engineering has gone to hell in a handcart,often at the hands of our erstwhile partners in the EU (Bombardier for example). Well nothing until the plants have closed and the staff are on the dole and then they come in with regeneration projects to make them look magnanimous, but where the jobs created are just as likely to go to free movement of labour EU citizens as to the redundant Brits. The North Midlands where I live has had a particularly bad experience, and surprise surprise, voted 71% leave in my area.

What do you think the likelihood of a second Brexit vote is? I see all the folks that were on the losing side complaining, and claiming a second vote (that presumably votes to stay in the EU) would 'prove that democracy works', or some such nonsense..... So, what do they plan? Keep calling for new votes, until they get the result they want, and call it "a victory for democracy"??? That seems really hypocritical to me.

I think this statement by this Dragon speaks volumes and I think everybody in England should listen to how you guys are being treated. It is a spotlight on the true feelings towards you as a nation and a people that may have been there all along. I think you should listen to all the haters out there who are up in arms and sneering at you guys for enjoying your human right to self determination and see if you actually want to be partners with those types of people. If they sneer and spit at you now, how do you know they hadn't been doing that all along. What do you think will be the pound of flesh they would demand of you to return? Would they respect you as a people?

 

Character is something that really comes to light when things are not going all that well and if this is their character, do you really want to be associated with such people?

Have you even been engaged and involved with referendum campaign here? This kind of behaviour happens all over the country and across the political spectrum. Dividing people as 'us and 'them' is not going to solve anything at all.

 

It is not like everyone on one 'side' are some sort of shining knights of the dawn... that is the kind of arrogance the vote was supposedly in opposition to.

 

First of all it doesn't matter where you are from. I've seen my country, America turned into a hotbed of hatred and bigotry because of idealism,. This is not about what we do to eachother and what I am talking about here has nothing to do with the way you or any of your fellow countrymen feel about your own countrymen. It is about what other countries see you as that matters, especially when you have been under the control of those outside your country.

 

Please don't throw this us and them at me when all I am doing is pointing out what others are doing to you. I'm not seperating anyone out. I'm pointing out their behavior and remarking on that.

 

I don't know where you came up with this shining knight thing but I rarely comment on other peoples renditions of strawmen in the first place.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

 

What do you think the likelihood of a second Brexit vote is? I see all the folks that were on the losing side complaining, and claiming a second vote (that presumably votes to stay in the EU) would 'prove that democracy works', or some such nonsense..... So, what do they plan? Keep calling for new votes, until they get the result they want, and call it "a victory for democracy"??? That seems really hypocritical to me.

No sensible person thinks a second referendum is on and if there was one people would likely vote to leave in greater numbers, Remains campaign was built around fear, post vote it's been accepted that most of it was nonsense. I wouldn't take any notice of our media, they like the politicians are in a panic, not so much about the EU, more that people have stopped listening to them.

 

The UK government are in large part accountable for the problems of this country. Sorry if people cannot cope with that fact but you need a reality check.

Yeah by hell the EU has issues but so do all the individual countries. Passing the blame around is a political game, don't play it. Many people seem to think they can vote on a limited scope of decisions now and again expecting all to be rosy. Does 'democracy' make the 'other side's wrong? Not in a half and half split it doesn't, if ever. If it does then it becomes as meaningless as any other regime.

People need to wake the hell up and smell the coffee and stop getting on a high horse. The problems are complex and challenging, calling a second vote won't change things but neither will blowing off the discussion and then being first in line to complain when the novelty wears off and there is something else to complain about.

Nobody thinks everything is going to be rosy, the difference now is that we can remove a government if we don't like it.

The leave campaign was equally based on fear.

 

Who can we trust to replace them with?

 

 

I am not explaining the basics of parliamentary democracy to you.

 

 

I'm sorry, but what is this supposed to mean? My question was a genuine one, if not the Tories then who exactly? And what are they going to do? Deflecting the question does not change the reality... I thought this was all supposed to be about democracy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had to ROFL at Drake's bellyaching about ''realizing all the things you blamed the EU for were not their doing at all to begin with'', because it took even this thick English peasant a mere ten seconds to come up with British industries trashed by EU policies.

 

- As a result of the common fisheries policy, our trawler fleet has to tie up and is not allowed to earn a living most of the year, unless they have really large vessels capable of getting to the Grand Banks off Newfoundland. Because the British were never actually the naughty child of Europe as all you Europhiles like to tell it, we solemnly obeyed the rules whilst the Spanish plunder our waters with illegal small mesh nets and destroy the fish stocks. Oh to be at the harbourside in Brixham or Newlyn now when one of the Spanish boats tries to dock...those Devon and Cornwall boys are so pissed that they sailed up the Thames the other week, only to be abused by Saint Bob Geldof. I daresay they taught him a new word or two.

 

- In spite of the farming subsidies, the CAP and EU competition rules have cut a swathe through our farming industry. Not so long ago we could have been self sufficient in, for example, dairy products, but were forced to allow unrestricted imports of European product. And then there was the foot and mouth epidemic, in which I was involved as a member of the hunting community who had the distasteful task of assisting with the cull. One evening a Ministry vet who was in the pub with us was holding forth about how "they've got it all over Western Europe but call it staggers (a less serious animal disease) so as to avoid movement restrictions and a mass cull like the one we've been doing today." We hadn't had foot and mouth for years and then farmers got the fad for these continental breeds and all of a sudden back it was. Coincidence?

 

- The EU have stood by and done nothing whilst our steel and engineering has gone to hell in a handcart,often at the hands of our erstwhile partners in the EU (Bombardier for example). Well nothing until the plants have closed and the staff are on the dole and then they come in with regeneration projects to make them look magnanimous, but where the jobs created are just as likely to go to free movement of labour EU citizens as to the redundant Brits. The North Midlands where I live has had a particularly bad experience, and surprise surprise, voted 71% leave in my area.

What do you think the likelihood of a second Brexit vote is? I see all the folks that were on the losing side complaining, and claiming a second vote (that presumably votes to stay in the EU) would 'prove that democracy works', or some such nonsense..... So, what do they plan? Keep calling for new votes, until they get the result they want, and call it "a victory for democracy"??? That seems really hypocritical to me.

I think this statement by this Dragon speaks volumes and I think everybody in England should listen to how you guys are being treated. It is a spotlight on the true feelings towards you as a nation and a people that may have been there all along. I think you should listen to all the haters out there who are up in arms and sneering at you guys for enjoying your human right to self determination and see if you actually want to be partners with those types of people. If they sneer and spit at you now, how do you know they hadn't been doing that all along. What do you think will be the pound of flesh they would demand of you to return? Would they respect you as a people?

 

Character is something that really comes to light when things are not going all that well and if this is their character, do you really want to be associated with such people?

Have you even been engaged and involved with referendum campaign here? This kind of behaviour happens all over the country and across the political spectrum. Dividing people as 'us and 'them' is not going to solve anything at all.

 

It is not like everyone on one 'side' are some sort of shining knights of the dawn... that is the kind of arrogance the vote was supposedly in opposition to.

 

First of all it doesn't matter where you are from. I've seen my country, America turned into a hotbed of hatred and bigotry because of idealism,. This is not about what we do to eachother and what I am talking about here has nothing to do with the way you or any of your fellow countrymen feel about your own countrymen. It is about what other countries see you as that matters, especially when you have been under the control of those outside your country.

 

Please don't throw this us and them at me when all I am doing is pointing out what others are doing to you. I'm not seperating anyone out. I'm pointing out their behavior and remarking on that.

 

I don't know where you came up with this shining knight thing but I rarely comment on other peoples renditions of strawmen in the first place.

 

 

How is 'what other countries see you as' not an idealism??

 

Your comment/s appear to assume a highly presumptuous tone, so I was merely using such premises to try extrapolate this apparent idea around a 'wickerman', or was it simply a reiteration of ideas?

[HeyYou]

It doesn't matter which politician you use to replace some other politician. The problem is: They are both politicians. None of them are honest, none of them really care about anything beyond their own wallet, and the next election. That means that the only people they really pay attention to are the ones that dump huge piles of money into their campaign coffers. Advertising seems to win elections, not the merits of the candidates. It's the same everywhere.

 

In all reality, democracy does not work any better than any other form of government. Especially when money can be involved. Then, it becomes the rich folks buying politicians, and THEY become the effective government. Capitalism at its 'best'.

[Harbringe]

One thing I can say about the reaction to Brexit is that its been pretty hyperbolic . Read an article where they compared it to the Cuban Missile Crisis , as if leaving Europe and a nuclear apocalypse were comparable. And this was in Canadian press ... like jeez guys take a pill.

 

Next thing I'm waiting to hear is how there is a team of leprauchans from Ireland following the rainbow trying to find the plug to sink the place. (Prolly part of a long held Irish re-unification plan)

[kvnchrist]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had to ROFL at Drake's bellyaching about ''realizing all the things you blamed the EU for were not their doing at all to begin with'', because it took even this thick English peasant a mere ten seconds to come up with British industries trashed by EU policies.

 

- As a result of the common fisheries policy, our trawler fleet has to tie up and is not allowed to earn a living most of the year, unless they have really large vessels capable of getting to the Grand Banks off Newfoundland. Because the British were never actually the naughty child of Europe as all you Europhiles like to tell it, we solemnly obeyed the rules whilst the Spanish plunder our waters with illegal small mesh nets and destroy the fish stocks. Oh to be at the harbourside in Brixham or Newlyn now when one of the Spanish boats tries to dock...those Devon and Cornwall boys are so pissed that they sailed up the Thames the other week, only to be abused by Saint Bob Geldof. I daresay they taught him a new word or two.

 

- In spite of the farming subsidies, the CAP and EU competition rules have cut a swathe through our farming industry. Not so long ago we could have been self sufficient in, for example, dairy products, but were forced to allow unrestricted imports of European product. And then there was the foot and mouth epidemic, in which I was involved as a member of the hunting community who had the distasteful task of assisting with the cull. One evening a Ministry vet who was in the pub with us was holding forth about how "they've got it all over Western Europe but call it staggers (a less serious animal disease) so as to avoid movement restrictions and a mass cull like the one we've been doing today." We hadn't had foot and mouth for years and then farmers got the fad for these continental breeds and all of a sudden back it was. Coincidence?

 

- The EU have stood by and done nothing whilst our steel and engineering has gone to hell in a handcart,often at the hands of our erstwhile partners in the EU (Bombardier for example). Well nothing until the plants have closed and the staff are on the dole and then they come in with regeneration projects to make them look magnanimous, but where the jobs created are just as likely to go to free movement of labour EU citizens as to the redundant Brits. The North Midlands where I live has had a particularly bad experience, and surprise surprise, voted 71% leave in my area.

What do you think the likelihood of a second Brexit vote is? I see all the folks that were on the losing side complaining, and claiming a second vote (that presumably votes to stay in the EU) would 'prove that democracy works', or some such nonsense..... So, what do they plan? Keep calling for new votes, until they get the result they want, and call it "a victory for democracy"??? That seems really hypocritical to me.

I think this statement by this Dragon speaks volumes and I think everybody in England should listen to how you guys are being treated. It is a spotlight on the true feelings towards you as a nation and a people that may have been there all along. I think you should listen to all the haters out there who are up in arms and sneering at you guys for enjoying your human right to self determination and see if you actually want to be partners with those types of people. If they sneer and spit at you now, how do you know they hadn't been doing that all along. What do you think will be the pound of flesh they would demand of you to return? Would they respect you as a people?

 

Character is something that really comes to light when things are not going all that well and if this is their character, do you really want to be associated with such people?

Have you even been engaged and involved with referendum campaign here? This kind of behaviour happens all over the country and across the political spectrum. Dividing people as 'us and 'them' is not going to solve anything at all.

 

It is not like everyone on one 'side' are some sort of shining knights of the dawn... that is the kind of arrogance the vote was supposedly in opposition to.

 

First of all it doesn't matter where you are from. I've seen my country, America turned into a hotbed of hatred and bigotry because of idealism,. This is not about what we do to eachother and what I am talking about here has nothing to do with the way you or any of your fellow countrymen feel about your own countrymen. It is about what other countries see you as that matters, especially when you have been under the control of those outside your country.

 

Please don't throw this us and them at me when all I am doing is pointing out what others are doing to you. I'm not seperating anyone out. I'm pointing out their behavior and remarking on that.

 

I don't know where you came up with this shining knight thing but I rarely comment on other peoples renditions of strawmen in the first place.

 

 

How is 'what other countries see you as' not an idealism??

 

Your comment/s appear to assume a highly presumptuous tone, so I was merely using such premises to try extrapolate this apparent idea around a 'wickerman', or was it simply a reiteration of ideas?

 

I would appreciate you not throwing me a red herring. Also, using $50.00 words when $3.00 words would suffice doesn't impress me, especially since you said nothing in either case. If you want to have a discussion with me then say something worth me responding to. As you seem to have embarked on a path of evasion and dismissal I would suggest you just ignore my posts and we will leave it at that.

[kvnchrist]

It doesn't matter which politician you use to replace some other politician. The problem is: They are both politicians. None of them are honest, none of them really care about anything beyond their own wallet, and the next election. That means that the only people they really pay attention to are the ones that dump huge piles of money into their campaign coffers. Advertising seems to win elections, not the merits of the candidates. It's the same everywhere.

 

In all reality, democracy does not work any better than any other form of government. Especially when money can be involved. Then, it becomes the rich folks buying politicians, and THEY become the effective government. Capitalism at its 'best'.

Well being a politician is a occupation that requires the best face being displayed to the most people. Making hard decisions are a liability to these people, especially when the split in public opinion is so narrow. I'm sure they are brushing up on their tap dancing skills and crossing their fingers so hard they hurt.

[kvnchrist]

One thing I can say about the reaction to Brexit is that its been pretty hyperbolic . Read an article where they compared it to the Cuban Missile Crisis , as if leaving Europe and a nuclear apocalypse were comparable. And this was in Canadian press ... like jeez guys take a pill.

 

Next thing I'm waiting to hear is how there is a team of leprauchans from Ireland following the rainbow trying to find the plug to sink the place. (Prolly part of a long held Irish re-unification plan)

It's the equivalent of union busting over here, but on a larger scale. Those who are so enamored with the idea of unity and solidarity have a mental meltdown when their idealistic little masterpiece starts to unravel and fall apart. To them the idividual isn't important, it's the group as a whole. What's sad is they have such a hard time realizing that the group is made up of individuals and as such ignore them . They use intimidation and guilt trips to keep people in line and when that doesn't work they get very personal and nasty..

 

What is truly sad is these types of measures aren't necessary if they actually valued the people around you. Unfortunately those elites who run these things hardly think that's worth their time because they feel they are isolated by the rank and file beneath them.