Future of EU...

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had to ROFL at Drake's bellyaching about ''realizing all the things you blamed the EU for were not their doing at all to begin with'', because it took even this thick English peasant a mere ten seconds to come up with British industries trashed by EU policies.

 

- As a result of the common fisheries policy, our trawler fleet has to tie up and is not allowed to earn a living most of the year, unless they have really large vessels capable of getting to the Grand Banks off Newfoundland. Because the British were never actually the naughty child of Europe as all you Europhiles like to tell it, we solemnly obeyed the rules whilst the Spanish plunder our waters with illegal small mesh nets and destroy the fish stocks. Oh to be at the harbourside in Brixham or Newlyn now when one of the Spanish boats tries to dock...those Devon and Cornwall boys are so pissed that they sailed up the Thames the other week, only to be abused by Saint Bob Geldof. I daresay they taught him a new word or two.

 

- In spite of the farming subsidies, the CAP and EU competition rules have cut a swathe through our farming industry. Not so long ago we could have been self sufficient in, for example, dairy products, but were forced to allow unrestricted imports of European product. And then there was the foot and mouth epidemic, in which I was involved as a member of the hunting community who had the distasteful task of assisting with the cull. One evening a Ministry vet who was in the pub with us was holding forth about how "they've got it all over Western Europe but call it staggers (a less serious animal disease) so as to avoid movement restrictions and a mass cull like the one we've been doing today." We hadn't had foot and mouth for years and then farmers got the fad for these continental breeds and all of a sudden back it was. Coincidence?

 

- The EU have stood by and done nothing whilst our steel and engineering has gone to hell in a handcart,often at the hands of our erstwhile partners in the EU (Bombardier for example). Well nothing until the plants have closed and the staff are on the dole and then they come in with regeneration projects to make them look magnanimous, but where the jobs created are just as likely to go to free movement of labour EU citizens as to the redundant Brits. The North Midlands where I live has had a particularly bad experience, and surprise surprise, voted 71% leave in my area.

What do you think the likelihood of a second Brexit vote is? I see all the folks that were on the losing side complaining, and claiming a second vote (that presumably votes to stay in the EU) would 'prove that democracy works', or some such nonsense..... So, what do they plan? Keep calling for new votes, until they get the result they want, and call it "a victory for democracy"??? That seems really hypocritical to me.

I think this statement by this Dragon speaks volumes and I think everybody in England should listen to how you guys are being treated. It is a spotlight on the true feelings towards you as a nation and a people that may have been there all along. I think you should listen to all the haters out there who are up in arms and sneering at you guys for enjoying your human right to self determination and see if you actually want to be partners with those types of people. If they sneer and spit at you now, how do you know they hadn't been doing that all along. What do you think will be the pound of flesh they would demand of you to return? Would they respect you as a people?

 

Character is something that really comes to light when things are not going all that well and if this is their character, do you really want to be associated with such people?

Have you even been engaged and involved with referendum campaign here? This kind of behaviour happens all over the country and across the political spectrum. Dividing people as 'us and 'them' is not going to solve anything at all.

 

It is not like everyone on one 'side' are some sort of shining knights of the dawn... that is the kind of arrogance the vote was supposedly in opposition to.

 

First of all it doesn't matter where you are from. I've seen my country, America turned into a hotbed of hatred and bigotry because of idealism,. This is not about what we do to eachother and what I am talking about here has nothing to do with the way you or any of your fellow countrymen feel about your own countrymen. It is about what other countries see you as that matters, especially when you have been under the control of those outside your country.

 

Please don't throw this us and them at me when all I am doing is pointing out what others are doing to you. I'm not seperating anyone out. I'm pointing out their behavior and remarking on that.

 

I don't know where you came up with this shining knight thing but I rarely comment on other peoples renditions of strawmen in the first place.

 

 

How is 'what other countries see you as' not an idealism??

 

Your comment/s appear to assume a highly presumptuous tone, so I was merely using such premises to try extrapolate this apparent idea around a 'wickerman', or was it simply a reiteration of ideas?

 

I would appreciate you not throwing me a red herring. Also, using $50.00 words when $3.00 words would suffice doesn't impress me, especially since you said nothing in either case. If you want to have a discussion with me then say something worth me responding to. As you seem to have embarked on a path of evasion and dismissal I would suggest you just ignore my posts and we will leave it at that.

 

 

You started it, mate... English lessons are more expensive now. Sorry you are unable to answer simple questions or back up your statements. It's an obvious agenda so I guess we will be forced to leave it there.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had to ROFL at Drake's bellyaching about ''realizing all the things you blamed the EU for were not their doing at all to begin with'', because it took even this thick English peasant a mere ten seconds to come up with British industries trashed by EU policies.

 

- As a result of the common fisheries policy, our trawler fleet has to tie up and is not allowed to earn a living most of the year, unless they have really large vessels capable of getting to the Grand Banks off Newfoundland. Because the British were never actually the naughty child of Europe as all you Europhiles like to tell it, we solemnly obeyed the rules whilst the Spanish plunder our waters with illegal small mesh nets and destroy the fish stocks. Oh to be at the harbourside in Brixham or Newlyn now when one of the Spanish boats tries to dock...those Devon and Cornwall boys are so pissed that they sailed up the Thames the other week, only to be abused by Saint Bob Geldof. I daresay they taught him a new word or two.

 

- In spite of the farming subsidies, the CAP and EU competition rules have cut a swathe through our farming industry. Not so long ago we could have been self sufficient in, for example, dairy products, but were forced to allow unrestricted imports of European product. And then there was the foot and mouth epidemic, in which I was involved as a member of the hunting community who had the distasteful task of assisting with the cull. One evening a Ministry vet who was in the pub with us was holding forth about how "they've got it all over Western Europe but call it staggers (a less serious animal disease) so as to avoid movement restrictions and a mass cull like the one we've been doing today." We hadn't had foot and mouth for years and then farmers got the fad for these continental breeds and all of a sudden back it was. Coincidence?

 

- The EU have stood by and done nothing whilst our steel and engineering has gone to hell in a handcart,often at the hands of our erstwhile partners in the EU (Bombardier for example). Well nothing until the plants have closed and the staff are on the dole and then they come in with regeneration projects to make them look magnanimous, but where the jobs created are just as likely to go to free movement of labour EU citizens as to the redundant Brits. The North Midlands where I live has had a particularly bad experience, and surprise surprise, voted 71% leave in my area.

What do you think the likelihood of a second Brexit vote is? I see all the folks that were on the losing side complaining, and claiming a second vote (that presumably votes to stay in the EU) would 'prove that democracy works', or some such nonsense..... So, what do they plan? Keep calling for new votes, until they get the result they want, and call it "a victory for democracy"??? That seems really hypocritical to me.

I think this statement by this Dragon speaks volumes and I think everybody in England should listen to how you guys are being treated. It is a spotlight on the true feelings towards you as a nation and a people that may have been there all along. I think you should listen to all the haters out there who are up in arms and sneering at you guys for enjoying your human right to self determination and see if you actually want to be partners with those types of people. If they sneer and spit at you now, how do you know they hadn't been doing that all along. What do you think will be the pound of flesh they would demand of you to return? Would they respect you as a people?

 

Character is something that really comes to light when things are not going all that well and if this is their character, do you really want to be associated with such people?

Have you even been engaged and involved with referendum campaign here? This kind of behaviour happens all over the country and across the political spectrum. Dividing people as 'us and 'them' is not going to solve anything at all.

 

It is not like everyone on one 'side' are some sort of shining knights of the dawn... that is the kind of arrogance the vote was supposedly in opposition to.

 

First of all it doesn't matter where you are from. I've seen my country, America turned into a hotbed of hatred and bigotry because of idealism,. This is not about what we do to eachother and what I am talking about here has nothing to do with the way you or any of your fellow countrymen feel about your own countrymen. It is about what other countries see you as that matters, especially when you have been under the control of those outside your country.

 

Please don't throw this us and them at me when all I am doing is pointing out what others are doing to you. I'm not seperating anyone out. I'm pointing out their behavior and remarking on that.

 

I don't know where you came up with this shining knight thing but I rarely comment on other peoples renditions of strawmen in the first place.

 

 

How is 'what other countries see you as' not an idealism??

 

Your comment/s appear to assume a highly presumptuous tone, so I was merely using such premises to try extrapolate this apparent idea around a 'wickerman', or was it simply a reiteration of ideas?

 

I would appreciate you not throwing me a red herring. Also, using $50.00 words when $3.00 words would suffice doesn't impress me, especially since you said nothing in either case. If you want to have a discussion with me then say something worth me responding to. As you seem to have embarked on a path of evasion and dismissal I would suggest you just ignore my posts and we will leave it at that.

 

 

You started it, mate... English lessons are more expensive now. Sorry you are unable to answer simple questions or back up your statements. It's an obvious agenda so I guess we will be forced to leave it there.

 

Dude you want to be elitist that's your choice. You want to fabricate things that's your character. Trying to turn things around on me won't work. People can and do read these posts and they know the deal here.

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had to ROFL at Drake's bellyaching about ''realizing all the things you blamed the EU for were not their doing at all to begin with'', because it took even this thick English peasant a mere ten seconds to come up with British industries trashed by EU policies.

 

- As a result of the common fisheries policy, our trawler fleet has to tie up and is not allowed to earn a living most of the year, unless they have really large vessels capable of getting to the Grand Banks off Newfoundland. Because the British were never actually the naughty child of Europe as all you Europhiles like to tell it, we solemnly obeyed the rules whilst the Spanish plunder our waters with illegal small mesh nets and destroy the fish stocks. Oh to be at the harbourside in Brixham or Newlyn now when one of the Spanish boats tries to dock...those Devon and Cornwall boys are so pissed that they sailed up the Thames the other week, only to be abused by Saint Bob Geldof. I daresay they taught him a new word or two.

 

- In spite of the farming subsidies, the CAP and EU competition rules have cut a swathe through our farming industry. Not so long ago we could have been self sufficient in, for example, dairy products, but were forced to allow unrestricted imports of European product. And then there was the foot and mouth epidemic, in which I was involved as a member of the hunting community who had the distasteful task of assisting with the cull. One evening a Ministry vet who was in the pub with us was holding forth about how "they've got it all over Western Europe but call it staggers (a less serious animal disease) so as to avoid movement restrictions and a mass cull like the one we've been doing today." We hadn't had foot and mouth for years and then farmers got the fad for these continental breeds and all of a sudden back it was. Coincidence?

 

- The EU have stood by and done nothing whilst our steel and engineering has gone to hell in a handcart,often at the hands of our erstwhile partners in the EU (Bombardier for example). Well nothing until the plants have closed and the staff are on the dole and then they come in with regeneration projects to make them look magnanimous, but where the jobs created are just as likely to go to free movement of labour EU citizens as to the redundant Brits. The North Midlands where I live has had a particularly bad experience, and surprise surprise, voted 71% leave in my area.

What do you think the likelihood of a second Brexit vote is? I see all the folks that were on the losing side complaining, and claiming a second vote (that presumably votes to stay in the EU) would 'prove that democracy works', or some such nonsense..... So, what do they plan? Keep calling for new votes, until they get the result they want, and call it "a victory for democracy"??? That seems really hypocritical to me.

I think this statement by this Dragon speaks volumes and I think everybody in England should listen to how you guys are being treated. It is a spotlight on the true feelings towards you as a nation and a people that may have been there all along. I think you should listen to all the haters out there who are up in arms and sneering at you guys for enjoying your human right to self determination and see if you actually want to be partners with those types of people. If they sneer and spit at you now, how do you know they hadn't been doing that all along. What do you think will be the pound of flesh they would demand of you to return? Would they respect you as a people?

 

Character is something that really comes to light when things are not going all that well and if this is their character, do you really want to be associated with such people?

Have you even been engaged and involved with referendum campaign here? This kind of behaviour happens all over the country and across the political spectrum. Dividing people as 'us and 'them' is not going to solve anything at all.

 

It is not like everyone on one 'side' are some sort of shining knights of the dawn... that is the kind of arrogance the vote was supposedly in opposition to.

 

First of all it doesn't matter where you are from. I've seen my country, America turned into a hotbed of hatred and bigotry because of idealism,. This is not about what we do to eachother and what I am talking about here has nothing to do with the way you or any of your fellow countrymen feel about your own countrymen. It is about what other countries see you as that matters, especially when you have been under the control of those outside your country.

 

Please don't throw this us and them at me when all I am doing is pointing out what others are doing to you. I'm not seperating anyone out. I'm pointing out their behavior and remarking on that.

 

I don't know where you came up with this shining knight thing but I rarely comment on other peoples renditions of strawmen in the first place.

 

 

How is 'what other countries see you as' not an idealism??

 

Your comment/s appear to assume a highly presumptuous tone, so I was merely using such premises to try extrapolate this apparent idea around a 'wickerman', or was it simply a reiteration of ideas?

 

I would appreciate you not throwing me a red herring. Also, using $50.00 words when $3.00 words would suffice doesn't impress me, especially since you said nothing in either case. If you want to have a discussion with me then say something worth me responding to. As you seem to have embarked on a path of evasion and dismissal I would suggest you just ignore my posts and we will leave it at that.

 

 

You started it, mate... English lessons are more expensive now. Sorry you are unable to answer simple questions or back up your statements. It's an obvious agenda so I guess we will be forced to leave it there.

 

Dude you want to be elitist that's your choice. You want to fabricate things that's your character. Trying to turn things around on me won't work. People can and do read these posts and they know the deal here.

 

 

Takes one to know one, I assume? I get the game, know the deal, and yeah, I'll also admit I've played with it for a bit. If you want to to engage in perhaps a little more constructive and inclusive discussion about where things go from here, then I'll be happy to continue, otherwise I must bid thee a 'bon voyage!'

[JimboUK]

 

 

 

 

 

I am not explaining the basics of parliamentary democracy to you.

 

 

I'm sorry, but what is this supposed to mean? My question was a genuine one, if not the Tories then who exactly? And what are they going to do? Deflecting the question does not change the reality... I thought this was all supposed to be about democracy.

 

 

 

 

You're asking me to state the obvious, what for? the party with the most MPs will replace the party that lost, how hard is that to understand?

 

It doesn't matter which politician you use to replace some other politician. The problem is: They are both politicians. None of them are honest, none of them really care about anything beyond their own wallet, and the next election. That means that the only people they really pay attention to are the ones that dump huge piles of money into their campaign coffers. Advertising seems to win elections, not the merits of the candidates. It's the same everywhere.

 

In all reality, democracy does not work any better than any other form of government. Especially when money can be involved. Then, it becomes the rich folks buying politicians, and THEY become the effective government. Capitalism at its 'best'.

 

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.”

― Winston S. Churchill

[kvnchrist]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had to ROFL at Drake's bellyaching about ''realizing all the things you blamed the EU for were not their doing at all to begin with'', because it took even this thick English peasant a mere ten seconds to come up with British industries trashed by EU policies.

 

- As a result of the common fisheries policy, our trawler fleet has to tie up and is not allowed to earn a living most of the year, unless they have really large vessels capable of getting to the Grand Banks off Newfoundland. Because the British were never actually the naughty child of Europe as all you Europhiles like to tell it, we solemnly obeyed the rules whilst the Spanish plunder our waters with illegal small mesh nets and destroy the fish stocks. Oh to be at the harbourside in Brixham or Newlyn now when one of the Spanish boats tries to dock...those Devon and Cornwall boys are so pissed that they sailed up the Thames the other week, only to be abused by Saint Bob Geldof. I daresay they taught him a new word or two.

 

- In spite of the farming subsidies, the CAP and EU competition rules have cut a swathe through our farming industry. Not so long ago we could have been self sufficient in, for example, dairy products, but were forced to allow unrestricted imports of European product. And then there was the foot and mouth epidemic, in which I was involved as a member of the hunting community who had the distasteful task of assisting with the cull. One evening a Ministry vet who was in the pub with us was holding forth about how "they've got it all over Western Europe but call it staggers (a less serious animal disease) so as to avoid movement restrictions and a mass cull like the one we've been doing today." We hadn't had foot and mouth for years and then farmers got the fad for these continental breeds and all of a sudden back it was. Coincidence?

 

- The EU have stood by and done nothing whilst our steel and engineering has gone to hell in a handcart,often at the hands of our erstwhile partners in the EU (Bombardier for example). Well nothing until the plants have closed and the staff are on the dole and then they come in with regeneration projects to make them look magnanimous, but where the jobs created are just as likely to go to free movement of labour EU citizens as to the redundant Brits. The North Midlands where I live has had a particularly bad experience, and surprise surprise, voted 71% leave in my area.

What do you think the likelihood of a second Brexit vote is? I see all the folks that were on the losing side complaining, and claiming a second vote (that presumably votes to stay in the EU) would 'prove that democracy works', or some such nonsense..... So, what do they plan? Keep calling for new votes, until they get the result they want, and call it "a victory for democracy"??? That seems really hypocritical to me.

I think this statement by this Dragon speaks volumes and I think everybody in England should listen to how you guys are being treated. It is a spotlight on the true feelings towards you as a nation and a people that may have been there all along. I think you should listen to all the haters out there who are up in arms and sneering at you guys for enjoying your human right to self determination and see if you actually want to be partners with those types of people. If they sneer and spit at you now, how do you know they hadn't been doing that all along. What do you think will be the pound of flesh they would demand of you to return? Would they respect you as a people?

 

Character is something that really comes to light when things are not going all that well and if this is their character, do you really want to be associated with such people?

Have you even been engaged and involved with referendum campaign here? This kind of behaviour happens all over the country and across the political spectrum. Dividing people as 'us and 'them' is not going to solve anything at all.

 

It is not like everyone on one 'side' are some sort of shining knights of the dawn... that is the kind of arrogance the vote was supposedly in opposition to.

 

First of all it doesn't matter where you are from. I've seen my country, America turned into a hotbed of hatred and bigotry because of idealism,. This is not about what we do to eachother and what I am talking about here has nothing to do with the way you or any of your fellow countrymen feel about your own countrymen. It is about what other countries see you as that matters, especially when you have been under the control of those outside your country.

 

Please don't throw this us and them at me when all I am doing is pointing out what others are doing to you. I'm not seperating anyone out. I'm pointing out their behavior and remarking on that.

 

I don't know where you came up with this shining knight thing but I rarely comment on other peoples renditions of strawmen in the first place.

 

 

How is 'what other countries see you as' not an idealism??

 

Your comment/s appear to assume a highly presumptuous tone, so I was merely using such premises to try extrapolate this apparent idea around a 'wickerman', or was it simply a reiteration of ideas?

 

I would appreciate you not throwing me a red herring. Also, using $50.00 words when $3.00 words would suffice doesn't impress me, especially since you said nothing in either case. If you want to have a discussion with me then say something worth me responding to. As you seem to have embarked on a path of evasion and dismissal I would suggest you just ignore my posts and we will leave it at that.

 

 

You started it, mate... English lessons are more expensive now. Sorry you are unable to answer simple questions or back up your statements. It's an obvious agenda so I guess we will be forced to leave it there.

 

Dude you want to be elitist that's your choice. You want to fabricate things that's your character. Trying to turn things around on me won't work. People can and do read these posts and they know the deal here.

 

 

Takes one to know one, I assume? I get the game, know the deal, and yeah, I'll also admit I've played with it for a bit. If you want to to engage in perhaps a little more constructive and inclusive discussion about where things go from here, then I'll be happy to continue, otherwise I must bid thee a 'bon voyage!'

 

I'll mark that up as a non responce, much like the others. As I've stated. People do read these and know the score.

[kvnchrist]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not explaining the basics of parliamentary democracy to you.

 

 

I'm sorry, but what is this supposed to mean? My question was a genuine one, if not the Tories then who exactly? And what are they going to do? Deflecting the question does not change the reality... I thought this was all supposed to be about democracy.

 

 

 

 

You're asking me to state the obvious, what for? the party with the most MPs will replace the party that lost, how hard is that to understand?

 

It doesn't matter which politician you use to replace some other politician. The problem is: They are both politicians. None of them are honest, none of them really care about anything beyond their own wallet, and the next election. That means that the only people they really pay attention to are the ones that dump huge piles of money into their campaign coffers. Advertising seems to win elections, not the merits of the candidates. It's the same everywhere.

 

In all reality, democracy does not work any better than any other form of government. Especially when money can be involved. Then, it becomes the rich folks buying politicians, and THEY become the effective government. Capitalism at its 'best'.

 

“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.”

― Winston S. Churchill

 

He's trying to derail the post by asking inane questions from the peripheral. Sounds like someone who is really iritated that this thing has happened and wants it all to go away.

[HeyYou]

Seems so does John Kerry. He is now saying that even though the people have voted, and made their preference know, the government may simply not do it.

 

So much for democracy eh? "Sure, we want to know what you want, but then, we are going to do what WE want anyway."

[ginnyfizz]

One thing I can say about the reaction to Brexit is that its been pretty hyperbolic . Read an article where they compared it to the Cuban Missile Crisis , as if leaving Europe and a nuclear apocalypse were comparable. And this was in Canadian press ... like jeez guys take a pill.

 

Next thing I'm waiting to hear is how there is a team of leprauchans from Ireland following the rainbow trying to find the plug to sink the place. (Prolly part of a long held Irish re-unification plan)

ROFL....they were apprehended in my bathroom by my small tabby and white cat who also voted Brexit because if we reclaim our fishing grounds she can have fresh halibut for supper (well so she thinks...)

 

Sunshinebrick, it probably surprises you to know that not all of us Brexiteers are ill informed morons. Coming away from the polling station last week I overheard an ordinary working class guy in his twenties/early thirties saying "Well I really had to think hard about it, but I put me cross for Brexit cuz if I'm going ter be ruled by crooks at least let's have ones we can kick out on their arses at an election." And yes me duck, we really do speak like that where I come from. Clearly our lad there knew the score. As for myself, I am one of the breed that they would have you believe is in short supply in the Brexit camp, university educated and speaking two European languages in addition to my own, and I still say we did the right thing. I do not like being bullied, and sneer at the attitude of my late great Dad if you like, but the fact that the EU have never got the auditors to sign off their accounts for twenty years just goes to show how well...unaccountable they are. Oh and by the way, in the early years of the auditor refusing to sign off the accounts, they tried to retaliate by trying to fire the auditor. Speaks volumes.

 

HeyYou - agree with my honourable friends, second vote not going to happen. Those calling for it are the subject of loud hoots of derision and reminiscences of how they kept making the Danes and Irish vote again until they got it right. I have to laugh at the righteous indignation of the wee Sturgeon, First Minister of Scotland. Suck it up lassie, we in England have often had to put up with Labour governments because of Scotland tipping the balance, and we still have your MPs voting on English affairs while we can't vote on yours.

[Mandamus]

Alright, I'm not getting into the whole Brexit debate seeing as I don't think I know enough about the current economic/social situation in the UK to argue one way or another, but I wanted to ask UK citizens reading this thread what in their opinion would be the best possible outcome to negotiations with the EU.

Should the UK aim for EEA membership? What about banks based in London and their ability to operate within the EU's financial market, should that be a priority to protect? What about expats? There are many of them where I live.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Mandamus

[sunshinenbrick]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am not explaining the basics of parliamentary democracy to you.

 

 

I'm sorry, but what is this supposed to mean? My question was a genuine one, if not the Tories then who exactly? And what are they going to do? Deflecting the question does not change the reality... I thought this was all supposed to be about democracy.

 

 

 

 

You're asking me to state the obvious, what for? the party with the most MPs will replace the party that lost, how hard is that to understand?

 

So simply vote like before and hope the politicians can sort it all out? Some democracy. Personally, I think we might benefit from a less removed and a more equal representation, but I worry that the Tories have managed to muscle out all other parties from standing a chance.

 

Alright, I'm not getting into the whole Brexit debate seeing as I don't think I know enough about the current economic/social situation in the UK to argue one way or another, but I wanted to ask UK citizens reading this thread what in their opinion would be the best possible outcome to negotiations with the EU.

Should the UK aim for EEA membership? What about banks based in London and their ability to freely operate within the EU's financial market, should that be a priority to protect? What about expats? There are many of them where I live.

 

Personally, I hope there will be a halfway house and changes can happen both in the UK, and in the EU. They could learn so much from each other if they would actually listen and debate things properly and pragmatically. Also things would need to open up so people actually know what is what and whom is whom, and see the consequences of their decisions. They may not like it but can at least own the decision. I think this actually happens a lot of the time anyway becasue it's probably based on big data, but there is a definite disconnect which becomes unhealthy. There is also a very closely guarded narrative in the media too and it causes serious misconceptions and confusion. Yet these things have ALWAYS been the case of course and is nothing new, and if we have been screwed over it has been in large part by corruption among our own politicians and lobbyists. If they really didn't think something was in their own interests, they would not do it despite what they may say on television.

 

Of course the biggest potential obstacle I see in this case scenario, is if our politicians simply continue to point the finger when they have to go back on their promises. There is perhaps only one politician in UK politics who I could actually see saying something like 'Oops! We screwed up, sorry, but we'll make it up to you.', all the others seem too dogmatic and proud, but then even he is also in the Monopoly Party... (i.e. Tories).

 

It appears among people in general however, that they are the same on all sides and it is perhaps the political sphere itself that seem to be broken and has bubbled out of reach from most ordinary people. Right now is perhaps one of the most crucial times in our lives and futures. Having said that, there are also the possibility that greater world events may shift the focus of attention completely and throw into much starker contrast, the mood and direction of people.