On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[QuantumCurt]

This is an excellent explanation of this whole situation, and I really hope that EVERYONE who's been debating this issue these last few weeks takes the time to read every word of it. This is a very real problem that needs to be dealt with. Mod theft is not okay in general, and when this mod theft is being hosted nearly without restrictions on the official modding framework for the game, it goes far beyond simply not being okay.

 

This issue has been rife with irrationality on every side. On the one side we've got people blatantly stealing mods and a bunch of console players encouraging these people to continue blatantly stealing mods. On the other hand, we've got a bunch of PC Master Race f*#@tards who are framing this whole issue as the "console peasants" not even being deserving of mods, and only being deserving of straight up harsh ridicule.

 

I totally get it. I'm a PC gamer because in my opinion it is a vastly superior gaming platform. But that doesn't mean that I have to look down on those who choose to game on a console. Setting mods aside, we're playing the same damn game. Sure, we have way better graphics and a command console on PC, but there's nothing fundamentally different about the game. It's the same story, characters, quests, locations, items, game mechanics, etc. We should all be in this together, and we should all be working to find a solution together. That's what has driven the success of the Nexus. When problems arise, we actually collectively correct them. Your Far Harbor example couldn't possibly be more telling of this fact. As you said, hundreds of people reported it. I was one of them. Would I have loved to play Far Harbor a week early? Hell yeah, it's a f*#@ing awesome DLC. But simply being excited about playing it wasn't going to make me blatantly rip Bethesda off. I respect them because I love their games. That file didn't belong here, and we made sure that it didn't stay here.

 

Bethesda is finally taking some steps here. Requiring the mod uploaders have a Bethesda.net account that's linked to a Steam account is a big step in the right direction. However, they're still yet to really describe the action that will be taken. Is it going to be an immediate ban like it is here? Is it going to be a strike system? Time will tell, and I'm sure they're going to get it right, but the core of this issue is that it shouldn't even be an issue. There is more than enough precedent out there already for Bethesda to have gotten this right, and to have gotten it right upon first launching the system.

[badiyee85]

The way I look at it, it boils to greed, not because of lack of education.

 

There already are cases where mods are stolen and the thieves demand donation "for bringing it over", for which when hell breaks loose, they use the "i'm only trying to help the community because we can't see the pc master race bla bla bla". You just have to check out sections of the internet, and i'm sure you can see it.

 

However, I agree with Dark0ne's perception that why, all of a sudden Bethesda make an appearance and sink its claws / fangs / teeth into the modding community?

 

All because of this, there's a generated heaps of distrust and antipathy; the siege mindset of 'they're there to get us' (irregardless if you're a console player or a pc player), and somebody / entity *cough*Beth*cough profiteering in the middle (which in any case, the community of modders will still lose).

 

I feel that there should be a better give and take approach to things, but most importantly greed should be treated as a plague. Its these little problems that piling up creating the 'stand off'-ish situation. It won't be long before there are going to be modders who will make mods and with all intents and purposes insert codes from SKSE (or make it reliant on SKSE) which will serve as a detterant / revenge tool / troll move just in their assumption of "i want to protect these mods from getting stolen", which won't be fair to both communities.

[Bobothedinosaur]

I typically bought these games when they came out on console. Years back there was far more upheaval in hardware requirements than there has been the last few years. I still have a few consoles and pcs from a decade ago. Having finally built a good pc there's absolutely a difference but my decade old pcs are obsolete with no usable components outside of their hard drives and connectors. After FO4 I'm not sure... Probably won't again. While it was nice that they focused on their lore-unique items, they left an enormous void prior to mods atop the small feeling and the clumsy creation feel the game has not just in the settlements but throughout the map with glaring issues many places.

 

Frankly you have an enormous community that is incredibly diverse. Cannot imagine it's a part-time gig running the strings to keep it in line. I can't help but think that unfortunately these larger companies end up with lower staffs and with more difficulty creating comprehensive fair plans for dealing with content being used against permission. Hopefully Bethesda is able to get their act together. There's a lot that most people will want to do, much that people won't care about, and more that basically everyone will do. There's also what nobody will condone and what cannot be tolerated as well though, and not cracking down on it quickly and decisively will not do them favors. Some larger file hosts have successfully not cared for years- but for a publisher/developer to have stolen or obscenely explicit content on their site for long can't be tolerated for long. I hope that word choice conveys it well- obscenely explicit since it is a mature game, is rated for having intense violence and sexual themes but there are boundaries beyond legal and reasonable moral standards.

 

Unfortunately, in this day and age too many people do not understand "because I don’t want to and because I can do whatever I want and you have no right to tell me what to do" is still so very true and relevant to others as well as themselves.

[Huglarh]

In response to post #39487080. #39487315, #39487495 are all replies on the same post.

EnaiSiaion wrote: You seem to think thieves are not punished because Bethesda doesn't know what they are doing.

I believe Bethesda knows very well what they are doing. They know that console mods will increase sales by XYZ%. The hardship to mod creators is an externality and they didn't give any thought to accomodating them.

The players don't give a damn if a mod is stolen. The players see a mod and download it. This benefits Bethesda. So why would Bethesda give two shits that the author didn't want the mod there?

See also: requiring a DMCA takedown notice to discourage authors from filing complaints.

Khaoz7 wrote: It's almost as if a corporation's sole concern is that of making money.

shhfiftyfive wrote: simply put, bethesda should care, because the pc mod community (and media) has the power to take them to task in the media. bad pr hurts a company and hurt sales.

goodwill is more profitable than what you're suggesting bethesda has the right to do (suicide).

@Khaoz

I agree.

Making money is essential to running any business, but if the eyes are solely on money...

Well, the issue is still far more complex then I feel people are going to patient for, but you'll know things will go down hill, the content, merchandise and what have you will start to deteriorate.

It's a bad habit, I feel in my opinion, that businesses can still achieve what the Original Poster and what we have all being suggesting, and still make enough to stay up and running, pay themselves and the bills, and go towards whatever development project they have going next. But after a time, because they hired someone who will make the company solely focused on money, or because of under the temptation, just become so concerned with money in itself, will do or make anything to either make a quick buck or try and make royalty, even if they clearly have more than enough to sustain themselves and that excess cash can go elsewhere (coughhelpanothergamingcompanygetofftheground,feedthehungry,cloththenaked,helpinvestinmedicineinthesick,etccough).

I understand money is important... but when is it any more important to ignore your own dedicated community that clearly loves your content, but in some cases you treat them as though they are a one-minded entity (AKA. One person does something wrong to Bethesda in someway within the community: Clearly they all must be evil and deserve no mercy), and among the other cliche's that you begin to forget everything else and yourself, and neglect everything else for money... ... ... Then there is a problem, things have to change even if it costs some of that money or just having to go through good 'ol change, if that means fixing that and rectifying those wrongs.

...In the end, It's important to have an economy. I feel I've gotten way off track with my comment, but what I'm getting to is that money is important, it has a value. But it's not on gold alone but the fact we choose to value as such. In the end... it'll rot away, return to the ground and new printed one will take it's place. It's just a paper bank note with some distinct features that make them unique and those images or the print in the dollar itself is going to have historical value behind it too, it's a promise that this dollar/coin/whatever currency is a valuable amount to exchange for someone else's goods so they can do the same in return or to someone else...

In the end ... -let's the bill go and it drifts away- ... It's a bill. A piece of paper with ink on it. Though I'm sure if we could generate revenue with what we do, it'd be worth something. But we are not money in itself, and shouldn't be ignored because we don't make revenue, very little or none at all (take your pick). I'm not going to argue or go into every facet how I might be right or wrong, you all have common sense and can better interpret what I said without either being a jerk or being a nimrod to point out every flaw in my paragraphs. I would love to be corrected and hear different perspectives of how I can look at and/or how I can be wrong and why so, just so long as it's constructed and not a "lol you're comment sucks, dye n a river" comment. You know, actually constructive.

But I want to get to is that we're people. We're not spoiled, over entitled monsters but we're people who love and invest in what we do as part of the Skyrim - and by extension Bethesda's - community and share a similar interest in what we do. I would like to be heard and have my opinion valued in a discussion or an issue (If my input is necessary) without having to flash a wad of cash or without who I would like to hear me out on an issue only listen to me because I have money. Edited June 18, 2016 by Huglarh

[chinagreenelvis]

In response to post #39485330. #39488480, #39488735 are all replies on the same post.

MrJoseCuervo wrote: I urge modders to keep their console brothers in mind when they make mods. Make sure your mods are in good working order and safe for them to use. We don't want any consoles getting damaged due to poor modding.

alanlwilcox wrote: How can a PC modder EVER make a mod safe for console gaming? There are no tools for a console game as said in an earlier post. Consoles are a new world that only Bethesda may know enough about to mod for them. I would think that consoles would be at great risk and will blame these modders for problems caused by pirated mods.

A_name wrote: There are 0 tools for a modder to troubleshoot on a console. And frankly asking a modder to buy 2 consoles just to test his mods is ridiculous anyway.

Maybe we should encourage the thieves or pirates to do the testing?
I am pretty damn sure a handful of modders would be glad to outsource this to them.
If they ask first of course.

AFAIK there shouldn't be any difference. Console mod problems will come from the the same source as PC mod problems: load order. It's not like you can write a mod that will physically destroy a console.

[croc123]

How to address this from a modder's point of view...? I don't make mods, not really. However, I DO have some IP out there, and have had to engage in some legal jousting with some rather large Goliath-types. And that is what this is about, not mods per se' but about IP. Yours.

 

It seems to me, reading this commentary, that Bethesda are not really taking the issue seriously. So DO start filing DMCA notices. Meanwhile, take some measures to protect your IP. Copyright is rather easy, in some parts of the world it is as simple as stating 'this material is copyright by...'

 

It is a crying shame that Bethesda has become so big that their users no longer matter to them, but their legal staff still take (big) bites out of their bottom line. If they don't care about YOU, then bite them in the pocket. Often, and as hard as you can. Make them HATE you. At least then they will respect you enough to finally pay the attention that should have paid all along.

 

So, protect yourself AND your IP. Someone tries to use your IP, bite them. Hard. Often. Legally, if necessary. If there is enough theft coming from this website, then I would think that a class action against Bethesda should be possible if they don't pay enough attention to the DMCA requests. Remember what happened to Mega...

 

Sorry that it has to be this way, but Goliath won't respect you until you pop him one right between the eyes... Do it now, and do it often. Do it before they try to 'monetize' it. Again.

[Orvandel87]

This will be the begin of the end of plataform`s like Nexus? I hope No, At this days i like to see whats new on Nexus.

[EthansShadow]

while i don't think it has happened yet, those thiefs could also theoretically create bugs (maybe even game breaking ones) while they port the mods with the CK. this would obviously damage the original authors reputation.

[Dresden81]

I think the simplest solution to this would be to just make your mod rely the SKSE libraries, even something as basic as a texture replacer. There must be a way, right?

[asd8dhd]

For anyone wishing to have their say on the official forum, I have posted a thread over there linking to this article. Please read the OP, as I would like the thread to remain open for as long as possible in light of these issues. The thread can be found here:

 

https://community.bethesda.net/thread/32944

Edited June 18, 2016 by gkk7z