On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[benowen]

In response to post #40426575.

mhasemore wrote: This is an incredible read but ultimately a very depressing and sad one. Here I was when I first played Fallout 1 and 2; a starry eyed RPG fan quickly falling in love with a new Bethesda franchise. Then Avellone's Fallout 2 genocide happened, stinking of juvenile corporate bullshit... and after 14 years, a gradual, but far worse effect, trickles into the Fallout series, and all of Bethesda's great modded games. First poor John Deilly gets his hard artistic work ground into dust after Fallout 2, and now so many mod authors on the Nexus are being treated in a similar manner by Bethesda? It seems even Bethesda will succumb to greed, complacency and ignorance, then... (sigh) none of this needed to happen. Fallout could have remained one of my most loved franchises, but this crap just splinters it into broken pieces that Bethesda is still trying to sell. I only hope it doesn't get any worse.

It's cute that you refer to Fallout 1 & 2 as a "Bethesda franchise."

[chuckles0000]

In response to post #39832980. #40268845, #40275465, #40295955, #40487115, #40516110, #40547280, #40548270, #40563460 are all replies on the same post.

marc5477 wrote: It is my understand that mods rights are owned by Bethesda, not the author, as long as the mod does not break any sort of copyright law. Are you sure you aren't getting upset over nothing?

Since you dont own your own mod, what difference does it make to you, if someone does something to it without permission? You will never make money from it and you will not get famous from it (any more, since its so easy to do compared to the old days). So whats the point?

If you want to make money from game assets then by all means sell the assets and there are many ways to do that but dont put them into someone elses game without reading the contract for doing so. If someone took one of my mods I wouldnt care one bit as long as they are not making money from my work and they are not getting famous from it. If either of those ever happen, you always have a legal recourse. The only thing I ever asked is to just give me credit somewhere in the doc that I at least exist lol.

Have the rules changed since Morrowind?

Nitrate55 wrote: And what if they're not giving you credit when they take your work? Or, better yet, they're claiming every bit of your work for themselves, fooling people into believing that they are the ones who made it, that they're the ones who poured their hard work into it, and not you. I understand that you might not care, but there's a vast majority of people who do care about this kind of thing. People who cannot tolerate this kind of thing. For example, why would I want to continue creating my work at all if I know it's just going to get taken by someone else, that some thief out there is going to take credit for my work? I think it's enough to dissillusion some people from even modding at all in the first place

Solongchu wrote: http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html Read this and you will see that Beth doesnt own your mods.

RandomViolence222 wrote: Well modding would fall under derivative works, so yeah Bethesda owns your mods.

JeorgErsteman wrote: Not even remotely.
Especially in this case, where Beth has themselves granted the right, and the tools to create based on the work.
Then by directing those who have had their works taken by other parties to file legal claims.. they have wiped their hands of any claim to ownership.
You don't have to even be a shithouse lawyer to see that.
Plus it simply gets down to right and wrong.
If Beth revoked 'free pass' to mod their core program, they could then stipulate that any works are theirs. But, it still would be theft then if anyone posted any creation not their own anywhere.. as now they would be claiming, posting Beth's now declared property.. so no matter how you slice it.. if YOU didn't make it.. it aint yours to do anything with.

PirateZ86 wrote: No, Beth owns your mods. watch

. Read the EULA again.

mathiascronqvist wrote: RTFPost

FishBiter wrote: I mean did you even read the giant article up there? He covers this. He covers every single thing you said, and you're wrong... on every count.

wakkytabbaky wrote: those that say they wouldnt care if their mod was stolen / uploaded under someone elses name obviously has not spent the long hours of putting together a mod and being frustrated at every little problem that arises.

people that mod dont wake up in the morning and say today is a great day to create a mod for someone to steal

That has already been covered. and even if bethesda were to pull some legal loophole, they would face immediate public backlash or worse.

[EazyCheeze]

In response to post #40426575. #40569870 is also a reply to the same post.

mhasemore wrote: This is an incredible read but ultimately a very depressing and sad one. Here I was when I first played Fallout 1 and 2; a starry eyed RPG fan quickly falling in love with a new Bethesda franchise. Then Avellone's Fallout 2 genocide happened, stinking of juvenile corporate bullshit... and after 14 years, a gradual, but far worse effect, trickles into the Fallout series, and all of Bethesda's great modded games. First poor John Deilly gets his hard artistic work ground into dust after Fallout 2, and now so many mod authors on the Nexus are being treated in a similar manner by Bethesda? It seems even Bethesda will succumb to greed, complacency and ignorance, then... (sigh) none of this needed to happen. Fallout could have remained one of my most loved franchises, but this crap just splinters it into broken pieces that Bethesda is still trying to sell. I only hope it doesn't get any worse.

benowen wrote: It's cute that you refer to Fallout 1 & 2 as a "Bethesda franchise."

Do you mean 'Black Isle franchise' or 'Interplay franchise'? Bethesda only really came onto the scene with Fallout 3 as I recall.

[Mcsipp]

wow what a read!!!!

--The respect I/me have for The Dark0ne is maxed out!

 

--every thing I was thinking while reading this was answered in the next section/pagaraph.

This means Dark0ne has a great awareness on how to speak to people...

 

 

Edited July 18, 2016 by Mcsipp

[steve40]

I think you mean "All users are welcomed so long as they are not toxic wastes." Since it is very evident that mod authors are allowed to be as toxic as they want without consequence.

 

EDIT:

((In case you forgot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJVlZJcqAzk ))

 

 

Modders can post what they like on YouTube... it is not NEXUS. Now quit being a toxic waste, dude. :devil:

[Calinaas]

In response to post #39832980. #40268845, #40275465, #40295955, #40487115, #40516110, #40547280, #40548270, #40563460, #40576465 are all replies on the same post.

marc5477 wrote: It is my understand that mods rights are owned by Bethesda, not the author, as long as the mod does not break any sort of copyright law. Are you sure you aren't getting upset over nothing?

Since you dont own your own mod, what difference does it make to you, if someone does something to it without permission? You will never make money from it and you will not get famous from it (any more, since its so easy to do compared to the old days). So whats the point?

If you want to make money from game assets then by all means sell the assets and there are many ways to do that but dont put them into someone elses game without reading the contract for doing so. If someone took one of my mods I wouldnt care one bit as long as they are not making money from my work and they are not getting famous from it. If either of those ever happen, you always have a legal recourse. The only thing I ever asked is to just give me credit somewhere in the doc that I at least exist lol.

Have the rules changed since Morrowind?

Nitrate55 wrote: And what if they're not giving you credit when they take your work? Or, better yet, they're claiming every bit of your work for themselves, fooling people into believing that they are the ones who made it, that they're the ones who poured their hard work into it, and not you. I understand that you might not care, but there's a vast majority of people who do care about this kind of thing. People who cannot tolerate this kind of thing. For example, why would I want to continue creating my work at all if I know it's just going to get taken by someone else, that some thief out there is going to take credit for my work? I think it's enough to dissillusion some people from even modding at all in the first place

Solongchu wrote: http://www.templetons.com/brad/copymyths.html Read this and you will see that Beth doesnt own your mods.

RandomViolence222 wrote: Well modding would fall under derivative works, so yeah Bethesda owns your mods.

JeorgErsteman wrote: Not even remotely.
Especially in this case, where Beth has themselves granted the right, and the tools to create based on the work.
Then by directing those who have had their works taken by other parties to file legal claims.. they have wiped their hands of any claim to ownership.
You don't have to even be a shithouse lawyer to see that.
Plus it simply gets down to right and wrong.
If Beth revoked 'free pass' to mod their core program, they could then stipulate that any works are theirs. But, it still would be theft then if anyone posted any creation not their own anywhere.. as now they would be claiming, posting Beth's now declared property.. so no matter how you slice it.. if YOU didn't make it.. it aint yours to do anything with.

PirateZ86 wrote: No, Beth owns your mods. watch

. Read the EULA again.

mathiascronqvist wrote: RTFPost

FishBiter wrote: I mean did you even read the giant article up there? He covers this. He covers every single thing you said, and you're wrong... on every count.

wakkytabbaky wrote: those that say they wouldnt care if their mod was stolen / uploaded under someone elses name obviously has not spent the long hours of putting together a mod and being frustrated at every little problem that arises.

people that mod dont wake up in the morning and say today is a great day to create a mod for someone to steal

chuckles0000 wrote: That has already been covered. and even if bethesda were to pull some legal loophole, they would face immediate public backlash or worse.

@Nitrate55 Actually there is a way to prove someone stole your work. It's the easiest way in the book.. check the time stamps of both mods. There's your proof. If someone was taking my mods and charging people for it they've already broken the law and Bethesda can technically sue them for it, also if the person who stole the mod tried everything in their power to pretend and lie they made it first. The time stamps don't lie. All I'd have to do is show people or the community my mod was uploaded first. I'm not saying it's okay to steal people's work. I'm just saying trying to prove it's stolen shouldn't be difficult. Edited July 19, 2016 by Calinaas

[sneaksmile]

It's great that consoles have mods, that fact only hurts to the prissy boys of the '' Master Race ''

 

Great, but they should do a good system for that. I think it will be difficult, I do not understand it very well, many fanatics PC lovers almost want to kill some authors of mods when they sell their mods.

Edited July 19, 2016 by sneaksmile

[Deleted2433418User]

It seems my worries about betesda.Net were justified.. not being an official modder myself(i´m on a learning curve atm) i sympathise with modders whose work is blatantly stolen for no other gain than trolling and false glory..the analogy of the disappearing Father pretty much hits it on the head..

this should not be a discussion about who gets mods.. it should be an idignant uproar from a united community against a company neglecting it´s primary source of income(we,the gamers) and blatantly disregarding any advice or criticism.. "Do NOT steal" is a good way of living and i feel sorry for anyone thinking otherwise..

I see,in the comments section the derailment is flowing at a steady pace(as per usual) but the gist of this matter is too serious for any to play hack and slash about (misunderstood) legales or even the,oh so weel known "who cares? it´s not like you make any money with it?" line of approach some morally undeveloped persons use.. The fact that Bethesda has put up a site not only enabling but willfully ignoring theft should have ANYONE up in arms.. it is not excusable for a big company who should know their way around websites to make such a monster,i seriously hope it wasn´t on purpose and that,with a TON of pressure from the community they will fix it.. i doubt it,but hey,i hope.. I would like to see any and all with a Bethesda.net account repeatedly and politely(important) direct Bethesda towards the problem and doggedly pursue the matter.. this IS important,not only for modders but equally for users of said mods.. if the modders stop..what will you do? we all know that Bethesda games are notoriously flawed and only playable at the level most of us require if heavily modded..so as the OP so brilliantly states.. this is a matter that should concern us all, PC or Console players alike..

my two cents

[JZSquared]

Personally I believe that Bethesda didn't see much promise in modding in the early days and probably viewed it as a novelty. Now that it has become such a big thing and that it's being sought after so heavily by the console community, they have to change their perspective. And honestly, I believe that Bethesda sees this as an opportunity to cash in. I believe the creation of Bethesda.net was a way to cut Steam out of the profits of paid modding, so they could keep more for themselves. Also it's a way to reach console users who have no alternative to receive mods for their system. Thus forcing them to have to buy from Bethesda's service, when the time comes. So after the many years all of you have spent building up the modding community and providing invaluable resources, Bethesda is here to take advantage of everyone's hard work. With this they took the same approach that Steam first did, which was a huge mistake. They are attempting to make the system completely automatic to save money, so they don't have to hire additional staff. This of course will not work and instead of learning from others mistakes, they'll just make the same ones again.

 

Also I would just like to add that if they have an incompetent system in place, they can then keep the mods up for longer and so with paid modding earn more money. Just some food for thought.

[Therobwil]

In response to post #40671960.

JZSquared wrote: Personally I believe that Bethesda didn't see much promise in modding in the early days and probably viewed it as a novelty. Now that it has become such a big thing and that it's being sought after so heavily by the console community, they have to change their perspective. And honestly, I believe that Bethesda sees this as an opportunity to cash in. I believe the creation of Bethesda.net was a way to cut Steam out of the profits of paid modding, so they could keep more for themselves. Also it's a way to reach console users who have no alternative to receive mods for their system. Thus forcing them to have to buy from Bethesda's service, when the time comes. So after the many years all of you have spent building up the modding community and providing invaluable resources, Bethesda is here to take advantage of everyone's hard work. With this they took the same approach that Steam first did, which was a huge mistake. They are attempting to make the system completely automatic to save money, so they don't have to hire additional staff. This of course will not work and instead of learning from others mistakes, they'll just make the same ones again.

Also I would just like to add that if they have an incompetent system in place, they can then keep the mods up for longer and so with paid modding earn more money. Just some food for thought.

that is F'ing terrifying... maybe I should be against the 'Special Edition' rather than neutral about it.