On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[Kukassin]

In response to post #39471205.

Jusey1 wrote: I didn't fully read this, just skimmed through it. BUT that is because I already know everything that's going on, so I generally agree with what you're saying or at least what you are getting at.

However, from what I've read. You miss a few things, and there is some stupidity in there that you shouldn't have said at all.

Firstly, this modding business is a problem because of everybody involved. What I am saying is that there are more people making this a mess, than just the thefts themselves...

1. The thieves themselves for starting this ordeal... HOWEVER, there is probably two types of thieves going on. Console people who just wants to play the mod but has no idea why they shouldn't... And PC people who wants to cause trouble in the first place, or are PC elitists and wants to crash console users in general, giving no f*#@s about the modders themselves...

2. The console users who knowingly supports the thefts. Now, these people are pretty rare but they do exists and just having a few will cause any modder to be upset and highly judgemental.

3. The modders themselves being stupid over this crap. Yes, people stole ye' s#*! and etc. Don't rant about it, don't go private, don't be stupid... Mods are your work and you should continue releasing your work, to as many people as possible. If someone stole a mod of yours, do what you need to do to fix it and let Bethesda know that they need to make a better system on Bethesda.net, but don't stop modding and don't make your mods go private. If possible, release those mods for console users yourself. That would greatly lower the chances of them stealing your mods.

Secondly, yes. Bethesda needs to do something to Bethesda.net and they are planning to do something at least. But we don't know how successful it will be until they do it. People also shouldn't complain about how long it takes for them to do it. Yes, they need to take action ASAP but they're are planning to put in a new system to help the modders and console users. They need to do it right, which can and will take some time to do it right. The longer they suggested means that they are really paying attention to this system and really want to put out something that works.

Lastly, paid mods are NOT gonna happen again. Don't be a doomsayer with that stupid stuff.

Agreed, although they have every right to go private and I don't think any of the 2 options are better.

What I do think is better is adding a DRM system which would inform the user (if on console) to delete the mod and report it and if not, it will damage their game.

About your second point, there are actually quite many that support it, not rare whatsoever. Pretty much every comment on the stolen pages is from them and there are TONS of them on YouTube videos, everywhere really. Again, not a rarity whatsoever.

[skinnytecboy]

In response to post #39469990. #39471310, #39471555, #39471980, #39472855 are all replies on the same post.

skinnytecboy wrote: Firstly, I've always had a great respect for your wise words Dark0nsie
Secondly, I haven't read any of the comments before launching off on my text....

I think in regards to mod piracy, there is a misguided interpretation that console users are to blame.

However, in order to upload mods you need a Pc version of fallout in order to use CK (perhaps there is a way with pirated versions, I'm too innocent to know). Therefore, by and large, the actual perpetrators are PC users and not console users.

The above said, obviously there is fault upon the hands of some console users, but who can blame someone for wanting all those lovely slooty mods that Pc users take for granted?

In regards to the whole layout of bethnet, I personally think it's better (put down those pitchforks and hear me out).

On the nexus main page we are presented predominantly with hotfiles (predominantly underage followers in skyrims case) and a small side section that features "latest" mods. Whereas on Bethnet the presentation is equal among Popular/Favourite and New. In that aspect at least I think the nexus could learn from. Well, it would certainly sedate alk those slooty posts that keep popping up on the forums lately.

Anyway, just speaking my mind and nothing more :)

tazdotnet wrote: why do people give a s#*! what platform a thief uses? a thief is a thief is a thief - give them the Hoffa treatment like any other thief

skinnytecboy wrote: My point exactly. ..minus the Hoffman treatment thingy

Sadguy99 wrote: Pls, define and point out differences between "pc users" and "console" user, sir. If a "pc user" also has a console and play games on both platform what do you call him? "pc console hybrid user" or "pc-onsole user"?

Kukassin wrote: You can do it with a pirated version, so it's both who are to blame.

The only reason I even have a problem with some of the console community is that they f*#@ING SUPPORT IT! That (as a mod author myself) is f*#@ing disgusting and I feel like slamming my fist down their throats when they think themselves the f*#@ing Robin Hood of console modding.

I don't call him or her anything. I'm merely stating that you need to have the game on PC in order to use the creation kit
.. Therefore the people uploading stolen mods to consoles are PC users! It's a murky thing isn't it and very easy to breed hate when the obvious isn't pointed out.

Btw... I don't have a console (well I have a ps3 but that doesn't count).

Think happy thoughts :)

[Jacebereln]

In response to post #39469990. #39471310, #39471555, #39471980, #39472855, #39473705 are all replies on the same post.

skinnytecboy wrote: Firstly, I've always had a great respect for your wise words Dark0nsie
Secondly, I haven't read any of the comments before launching off on my text....

I think in regards to mod piracy, there is a misguided interpretation that console users are to blame.

However, in order to upload mods you need a Pc version of fallout in order to use CK (perhaps there is a way with pirated versions, I'm too innocent to know). Therefore, by and large, the actual perpetrators are PC users and not console users.

The above said, obviously there is fault upon the hands of some console users, but who can blame someone for wanting all those lovely slooty mods that Pc users take for granted?

In regards to the whole layout of bethnet, I personally think it's better (put down those pitchforks and hear me out).

On the nexus main page we are presented predominantly with hotfiles (predominantly underage followers in skyrims case) and a small side section that features "latest" mods. Whereas on Bethnet the presentation is equal among Popular/Favourite and New. In that aspect at least I think the nexus could learn from. Well, it would certainly sedate alk those slooty posts that keep popping up on the forums lately.

Anyway, just speaking my mind and nothing more :)

tazdotnet wrote: why do people give a s#*! what platform a thief uses? a thief is a thief is a thief - give them the Hoffa treatment like any other thief

skinnytecboy wrote: My point exactly. ..minus the Hoffman treatment thingy

Sadguy99 wrote: Pls, define and point out differences between "pc users" and "console" user, sir. If a "pc user" also has a console and play games on both platform what do you call him? "pc console hybrid user" or "pc-onsole user"?

Kukassin wrote: You can do it with a pirated version, so it's both who are to blame.

The only reason I even have a problem with some of the console community is that they f*#@ING SUPPORT IT! That (as a mod author myself) is f*#@ing disgusting and I feel like slamming my fist down their throats when they think themselves the f*#@ing Robin Hood of console modding.

skinnytecboy wrote: I don't call him or her anything. I'm merely stating that you need to have the game on PC in order to use the creation kit
.. Therefore the people uploading stolen mods to consoles are PC users! It's a murky thing isn't it and very easy to breed hate when the obvious isn't pointed out.

Btw... I don't have a console (well I have a ps3 but that doesn't count).

Think happy thoughts :)

The problem I feel is that some console modders feel ... isolated from some mods and this causes agro, there needs to be a QA about console mods now, the first question should be with an answer that explains why pc mod makers have yet to port x mod yet, and maybe then they'll understand. Console modders can be impatient and this again puts much undue stress on the mod makers, I am as you put is a hybrid gamer, but for beth games pc all the way.

[Dark0ne]

In response to post #39472780. #39473085 is also a reply to the same post.

axonis wrote: The article needs a bit of cleanup because it currently looks like a straw man argument:

"mods on console are bad due to how it’s affecting the PC modding community" (direct quote from the article) because Bethesda.net doesn't respect author's rights diligently enough ?

These are different things. While the latter is probably correct, I just don't understand how it relates to the former.

Kukassin wrote: Different things, but they definitely collide.

Some people are taking down their work even from the Nexus so it won't be the target of theft, and as such, this is hurting even the Nexus community.

Some are even implementing DRM of sorts so console versions of the game will get mauled and won't work.

As long as mod authors see the console community support blatant theft and tell the original authors to f*#@ off and that they are elitist cunts in the Beth.net comments section (that is a very very common thing), they will puff the f*#@ up and deny access to their work. That is the fault of the console community and that is why not respecting the authors (on Bethesda's AND the community's part) and console modding both affect the PC community in a bad way.

You're quoting my rhetorical quote from an aside (within the "time out" section) as if it was the main point of the article. So basically, you're misquoting me there.

[skinnytecboy]

In response to post #39469990. #39471310, #39471555, #39471980, #39472855, #39473705, #39473890 are all replies on the same post.

skinnytecboy wrote: Firstly, I've always had a great respect for your wise words Dark0nsie
Secondly, I haven't read any of the comments before launching off on my text....

I think in regards to mod piracy, there is a misguided interpretation that console users are to blame.

However, in order to upload mods you need a Pc version of fallout in order to use CK (perhaps there is a way with pirated versions, I'm too innocent to know). Therefore, by and large, the actual perpetrators are PC users and not console users.

The above said, obviously there is fault upon the hands of some console users, but who can blame someone for wanting all those lovely slooty mods that Pc users take for granted?

In regards to the whole layout of bethnet, I personally think it's better (put down those pitchforks and hear me out).

On the nexus main page we are presented predominantly with hotfiles (predominantly underage followers in skyrims case) and a small side section that features "latest" mods. Whereas on Bethnet the presentation is equal among Popular/Favourite and New. In that aspect at least I think the nexus could learn from. Well, it would certainly sedate alk those slooty posts that keep popping up on the forums lately.

Anyway, just speaking my mind and nothing more :)

tazdotnet wrote: why do people give a s#*! what platform a thief uses? a thief is a thief is a thief - give them the Hoffa treatment like any other thief

skinnytecboy wrote: My point exactly. ..minus the Hoffman treatment thingy

Sadguy99 wrote: Pls, define and point out differences between "pc users" and "console" user, sir. If a "pc user" also has a console and play games on both platform what do you call him? "pc console hybrid user" or "pc-onsole user"?

Kukassin wrote: You can do it with a pirated version, so it's both who are to blame.

The only reason I even have a problem with some of the console community is that they f*#@ING SUPPORT IT! That (as a mod author myself) is f*#@ing disgusting and I feel like slamming my fist down their throats when they think themselves the f*#@ing Robin Hood of console modding.

skinnytecboy wrote: I don't call him or her anything. I'm merely stating that you need to have the game on PC in order to use the creation kit
.. Therefore the people uploading stolen mods to consoles are PC users! It's a murky thing isn't it and very easy to breed hate when the obvious isn't pointed out.

Btw... I don't have a console (well I have a ps3 but that doesn't count).

Think happy thoughts :)

Jacebereln wrote: The problem I feel is that some console modders feel ... isolated from some mods and this causes agro, there needs to be a QA about console mods now, the first question should be with an answer that explains why pc mod makers have yet to port x mod yet, and maybe then they'll understand. Console modders can be impatient and this again puts much undue stress on the mod makers, I am as you put is a hybrid gamer, but for beth games pc all the way.

Try not to "fist" the console users, it wouldn't be healthy. ;)

Taking a step back for a moment, personally I think it's great that consoles can have mods, it's a brave new world in my books.... For example, I released a mod here with 500 lines of custom dialogue for fallout back in May, it doesn't have any boobs tho, and it currently has 400 d/ls .however, the same mod on beth has 13,000.00 sleep
/ls . Not that what I do is concerned with popularity, but it's nice to feel "worth" for your work.

[skinnytecboy]

In response to post #39469990. #39471310, #39471555, #39471980, #39472855, #39473705, #39473890, #39473975 are all replies on the same post.

skinnytecboy wrote: Firstly, I've always had a great respect for your wise words Dark0nsie
Secondly, I haven't read any of the comments before launching off on my text....

I think in regards to mod piracy, there is a misguided interpretation that console users are to blame.

However, in order to upload mods you need a Pc version of fallout in order to use CK (perhaps there is a way with pirated versions, I'm too innocent to know). Therefore, by and large, the actual perpetrators are PC users and not console users.

The above said, obviously there is fault upon the hands of some console users, but who can blame someone for wanting all those lovely slooty mods that Pc users take for granted?

In regards to the whole layout of bethnet, I personally think it's better (put down those pitchforks and hear me out).

On the nexus main page we are presented predominantly with hotfiles (predominantly underage followers in skyrims case) and a small side section that features "latest" mods. Whereas on Bethnet the presentation is equal among Popular/Favourite and New. In that aspect at least I think the nexus could learn from. Well, it would certainly sedate alk those slooty posts that keep popping up on the forums lately.

Anyway, just speaking my mind and nothing more :)

tazdotnet wrote: why do people give a s#*! what platform a thief uses? a thief is a thief is a thief - give them the Hoffa treatment like any other thief

skinnytecboy wrote: My point exactly. ..minus the Hoffman treatment thingy

Sadguy99 wrote: Pls, define and point out differences between "pc users" and "console" user, sir. If a "pc user" also has a console and play games on both platform what do you call him? "pc console hybrid user" or "pc-onsole user"?

Kukassin wrote: You can do it with a pirated version, so it's both who are to blame.

The only reason I even have a problem with some of the console community is that they f*#@ING SUPPORT IT! That (as a mod author myself) is f*#@ing disgusting and I feel like slamming my fist down their throats when they think themselves the f*#@ing Robin Hood of console modding.

skinnytecboy wrote: I don't call him or her anything. I'm merely stating that you need to have the game on PC in order to use the creation kit
.. Therefore the people uploading stolen mods to consoles are PC users! It's a murky thing isn't it and very easy to breed hate when the obvious isn't pointed out.

Btw... I don't have a console (well I have a ps3 but that doesn't count).

Think happy thoughts :)

Jacebereln wrote: The problem I feel is that some console modders feel ... isolated from some mods and this causes agro, there needs to be a QA about console mods now, the first question should be with an answer that explains why pc mod makers have yet to port x mod yet, and maybe then they'll understand. Console modders can be impatient and this again puts much undue stress on the mod makers, I am as you put is a hybrid gamer, but for beth games pc all the way.

skinnytecboy wrote: Try not to "fist" the console users, it wouldn't be healthy. ;)

Taking a step back for a moment, personally I think it's great that consoles can have mods, it's a brave new world in my books.... For example, I released a mod here with 500 lines of custom dialogue for fallout back in May, it doesn't have any boobs tho, and it currently has 400 d/ls .however, the same mod on beth has 13,000.00 sleep
/ls . Not that what I do is concerned with popularity, but it's nice to feel "worth" for your work.

I keep posting at the same time as you... Take each response of mine as a response to each penultimate post..

Gads... time travel is dangerous

[tonypoo016]

In response to post #39471205. #39473665 is also a reply to the same post.

Jusey1 wrote: I didn't fully read this, just skimmed through it. BUT that is because I already know everything that's going on, so I generally agree with what you're saying or at least what you are getting at.

However, from what I've read. You miss a few things, and there is some stupidity in there that you shouldn't have said at all.

Firstly, this modding business is a problem because of everybody involved. What I am saying is that there are more people making this a mess, than just the thefts themselves...

1. The thieves themselves for starting this ordeal... HOWEVER, there is probably two types of thieves going on. Console people who just wants to play the mod but has no idea why they shouldn't... And PC people who wants to cause trouble in the first place, or are PC elitists and wants to crash console users in general, giving no f*#@s about the modders themselves...

2. The console users who knowingly supports the thefts. Now, these people are pretty rare but they do exists and just having a few will cause any modder to be upset and highly judgemental.

3. The modders themselves being stupid over this crap. Yes, people stole ye' s#*! and etc. Don't rant about it, don't go private, don't be stupid... Mods are your work and you should continue releasing your work, to as many people as possible. If someone stole a mod of yours, do what you need to do to fix it and let Bethesda know that they need to make a better system on Bethesda.net, but don't stop modding and don't make your mods go private. If possible, release those mods for console users yourself. That would greatly lower the chances of them stealing your mods.

Secondly, yes. Bethesda needs to do something to Bethesda.net and they are planning to do something at least. But we don't know how successful it will be until they do it. People also shouldn't complain about how long it takes for them to do it. Yes, they need to take action ASAP but they're are planning to put in a new system to help the modders and console users. They need to do it right, which can and will take some time to do it right. The longer they suggested means that they are really paying attention to this system and really want to put out something that works.

Lastly, paid mods are NOT gonna happen again. Don't be a doomsayer with that stupid stuff.

Kukassin wrote: Agreed, although they have every right to go private and I don't think any of the 2 options are better.

What I do think is better is adding a DRM system which would inform the user (if on console) to delete the mod and report it and if not, it will damage their game.

About your second point, there are actually quite many that support it, not rare whatsoever. Pretty much every comment on the stolen pages is from them and there are TONS of them on YouTube videos, everywhere really. Again, not a rarity whatsoever.

Regarding number 3, Dark0ne already adressed your comment. A mod author should not continue releasing their work if they do not want to. At the end of the day, it is THEIR work. No one has the right to tell them what to do with it or pressure them in any way to port the mod to consoles.

You should complain about how long Bethesda takes to put a system to prevent this stuff in place. At the time of writing this comment, people are still stealing mods. It should be Bethesda's top priority to keep their community satisfied, but frankly they don't really seem to be giving a s#*! at this point. If they never will give a s#*!, then at least they could be kind enough to let us know so we can just abandon Fallout 4 and all their future RPGs.

Lastly, paid mods are DEFINITELY going to happen again. Come on, man. Why do you think this entire console modding thing was created anyway? So that Bethesda will be able to milk the modding community in the future! The situation with Skyrim was just a test. Now a system has been put in place to allow them to start selling you mods pretty early in the game's life, in an attempt to milk everyone as much as possible. Sadly this is what corporations have devolved into. Nobody gives a s#*! about us anymore. All we really, truly are to Bethesda (or rather ZeniMax) is sentient wallets, waiting to be exploited so they can earn yet more money. Gotta love capitalism, am I right? Paid mods will definitely not kill the modding community, though. There will always be mod authors that will offer their mods for free, and those certainly deserve donations for the effort they have put in their mods.

[Jusey1]

In response to post #39471205. #39473665, #39474105 are all replies on the same post.

Jusey1 wrote: I didn't fully read this, just skimmed through it. BUT that is because I already know everything that's going on, so I generally agree with what you're saying or at least what you are getting at.

However, from what I've read. You miss a few things, and there is some stupidity in there that you shouldn't have said at all.

Firstly, this modding business is a problem because of everybody involved. What I am saying is that there are more people making this a mess, than just the thefts themselves...

1. The thieves themselves for starting this ordeal... HOWEVER, there is probably two types of thieves going on. Console people who just wants to play the mod but has no idea why they shouldn't... And PC people who wants to cause trouble in the first place, or are PC elitists and wants to crash console users in general, giving no f*#@s about the modders themselves...

2. The console users who knowingly supports the thefts. Now, these people are pretty rare but they do exists and just having a few will cause any modder to be upset and highly judgemental.

3. The modders themselves being stupid over this crap. Yes, people stole ye' s#*! and etc. Don't rant about it, don't go private, don't be stupid... Mods are your work and you should continue releasing your work, to as many people as possible. If someone stole a mod of yours, do what you need to do to fix it and let Bethesda know that they need to make a better system on Bethesda.net, but don't stop modding and don't make your mods go private. If possible, release those mods for console users yourself. That would greatly lower the chances of them stealing your mods.

Secondly, yes. Bethesda needs to do something to Bethesda.net and they are planning to do something at least. But we don't know how successful it will be until they do it. People also shouldn't complain about how long it takes for them to do it. Yes, they need to take action ASAP but they're are planning to put in a new system to help the modders and console users. They need to do it right, which can and will take some time to do it right. The longer they suggested means that they are really paying attention to this system and really want to put out something that works.

Lastly, paid mods are NOT gonna happen again. Don't be a doomsayer with that stupid stuff.

Kukassin wrote: Agreed, although they have every right to go private and I don't think any of the 2 options are better.

What I do think is better is adding a DRM system which would inform the user (if on console) to delete the mod and report it and if not, it will damage their game.

About your second point, there are actually quite many that support it, not rare whatsoever. Pretty much every comment on the stolen pages is from them and there are TONS of them on YouTube videos, everywhere really. Again, not a rarity whatsoever.

turoktony wrote: Regarding number 3, Dark0ne already adressed your comment. A mod author should not continue releasing their work if they do not want to. At the end of the day, it is THEIR work. No one has the right to tell them what to do with it or pressure them in any way to port the mod to consoles.

You should complain about how long Bethesda takes to put a system to prevent this stuff in place. At the time of writing this comment, people are still stealing mods. It should be Bethesda's top priority to keep their community satisfied, but frankly they don't really seem to be giving a s#*! at this point. If they never will give a s#*!, then at least they could be kind enough to let us know so we can just abandon Fallout 4 and all their future RPGs.

Lastly, paid mods are DEFINITELY going to happen again. Come on, man. Why do you think this entire console modding thing was created anyway? So that Bethesda will be able to milk the modding community in the future! The situation with Skyrim was just a test. Now a system has been put in place to allow them to start selling you mods pretty early in the game's life, in an attempt to milk everyone as much as possible. Sadly this is what corporations have devolved into. Nobody gives a s#*! about us anymore. All we really, truly are to Bethesda (or rather ZeniMax) is sentient wallets, waiting to be exploited so they can earn yet more money. Gotta love capitalism, am I right? Paid mods will definitely not kill the modding community, though. There will always be mod authors that will offer their mods for free, and those certainly deserve donations for the effort they have put in their mods.

Huh. I rarely see people supporting the actual thefts myself.

[Kalell]

I like Bethesda, and I know there are a lot of good people that work there that want nothing more than to please the fans of their games, but everything that's happened over the last year or so makes me wish they'd never gotten involved with the modding community (other than the usual dev kits they release). Things have been fine for years without their intervention, and the second they get involved things start going downhill fast. All of this is obviously a business decision that was made because they saw a new opportunity for revenue, which is fine, but whoever is in charge of deciding how these decisions are carried out either doesn't know what they are doing or doesn't care about the modding community. If they keep doing things this way they'll lose any ability they had to make money from mods because there will be no one left to make them. Edited June 19, 2016 by Kalell

[Ethreon]

In response to post #39471285. #39471885, #39472400, #39472495 are all replies on the same post.

Rooker75 wrote: Honestly, I thought the FO4 GECK was delayed because someone there got the boneheaded idea they could make more money by withholding it until after they released DLC. The timing of its release makes me think I was right. It certainly taught me never to buy one of their new games until after they release its SDK. I play their games mainly for the modding, not for the game itself.

As I said when one of their early FO4 patches disabled mods and appeared to be deliberately tampering with config files to prevent mods from running, Bethesda appears to be attempting to assert an authority over modding they don't have and they need to back off. I lost interest, so I don't know if the true reason for that behavior was ever revealed.

I worry they'll look at the reaction to paid modding last year and the reaction to this now and decide supporting mods is more trouble than it's worth for them. While I'd love it if they backed away from trying to control modding, it would be a disaster for them and us (probably more for them than for us) if they decided to stop releasing SDKs for their games. If we could go back to the way things were at the beginning of last year, that would be great.

Anyway, just want to note one thing: If you file a DMCA complaint about a mod (or any other reason), the target of the complaint receives your name, address, email address and various other personal information. It could lead to doxxing, swatting and who knows what else.

I think using DMCA as a go to was a dumb way for them to handle this.

/edit: Forgot to mention, thanks for the new permission settings. I don't like the rights Beth/Zenimax grant themselves, so I'd already decided I want none of my mods on their site.

Jusey1 wrote: If you play ANY game just for the modding (unless that is the game's purpose) then don't buy their games at all. The games obviously aren't meant for you.

Rooker75 wrote: Did you get lost? I'm not sure you're in the right place. Do you need assistance?

Jusey1 wrote: Nope. I am not lost.

You're lost.