On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[Guest deleted10460550]

In response to post #39479635. #39479960, #39480990 are all replies on the same post.

kealoz wrote: Back in the golden days when the modding community invigorated the mood (regardless of aggravations back then too), nowadays it just seems every time I check back in with the community it just makes me more tired. There's always been dark spots, blame and theft and tension but lately it just seems to have been taken to extreme levels. Idiots blaming all console users for theft clearly not their fault, Bethesda doing little about it, wars being fought in mod comment sections. Kind of depressing to see how far we've devolved. Hope there's a light at the end of the tunnel and we can get back to the days paranoia free modding.

P.S. Violent discussion doesn't solve the problem, it exacerbates it. If you have a point to say keep it calm and rational. We're civilized, not dark age savages.

PonceMonster wrote: We're not really being violent, but there have been people being careless about what they say. I mean, I'm a hypocrite for saying that but that's because I don't give a f*ck xD. But yeah anyways, don't be naive. You could have easily seen this coming, this changes nothing for us, or anyone else that seems to care. You should've known that at some point bethesda would have tried to make modding for consoles, and you should have already been used to them f*#@ing something up or screwing everybody over. You're not being obligated to feel this way, if you had known or had seen this coming, you certainly wouldn't seem so tangible. This brings nothing new to the table, and I hope you realize that. Robin admitted himself on numerous accounts or atleast hinted at it that he didn't even want to make the article.

GarnetSan wrote: God, you don't know how many times I have said that last sentence: :P

war... war never changes...


Im sorry I just couldnt help myself!:D

But yes your right.
after the paid moddin storm cleared up I thought things would get better....
Guess I was wrong.

[JediMasterChief2]

In response to post #39479635. #39479960, #39480990, #39481605 are all replies on the same post.

kealoz wrote: Back in the golden days when the modding community invigorated the mood (regardless of aggravations back then too), nowadays it just seems every time I check back in with the community it just makes me more tired. There's always been dark spots, blame and theft and tension but lately it just seems to have been taken to extreme levels. Idiots blaming all console users for theft clearly not their fault, Bethesda doing little about it, wars being fought in mod comment sections. Kind of depressing to see how far we've devolved. Hope there's a light at the end of the tunnel and we can get back to the days paranoia free modding.

P.S. Violent discussion doesn't solve the problem, it exacerbates it. If you have a point to say keep it calm and rational. We're civilized, not dark age savages.

PonceMonster wrote: We're not really being violent, but there have been people being careless about what they say. I mean, I'm a hypocrite for saying that but that's because I don't give a f*ck xD. But yeah anyways, don't be naive. You could have easily seen this coming, this changes nothing for us, or anyone else that seems to care. You should've known that at some point bethesda would have tried to make modding for consoles, and you should have already been used to them f*#@ing something up or screwing everybody over. You're not being obligated to feel this way, if you had known or had seen this coming, you certainly wouldn't seem so tangible. This brings nothing new to the table, and I hope you realize that. Robin admitted himself on numerous accounts or atleast hinted at it that he didn't even want to make the article.

GarnetSan wrote: God, you don't know how many times I have said that last sentence: :P

looper8330 wrote: war... war never changes...


Im sorry I just couldnt help myself!:D

But yes your right.
after the paid moddin storm cleared up I thought things would get better....
Guess I was wrong.

I just gave you your first kudos. I'm tired of all the fighting, and glad others are, too.

[khmp]

Read ~5100 words today. fist_bump_baby_meme.jpg

 

I know it seems truly important to everyone in the modding community but the note on which you finish - the certainty that Bethesda will eventually get their s#*! in order - I contrarily do not see that occurring even eventually. I'm sure there are people that work there that see the problem and want to correct it dearly. But I can almost guarantee that they do not have that same mentality your team does. They will not hire a team of moderators. The tedious DMCAs will probably be par for the course as this goes along rather than self policing. Plus as you yourself noted, rightly so, they still need to make the site worthwhile.

 

All that being said, I have no issue with being wrong about that. I hope I am. I'd love for someone to be able to say in the future to me, "I told you Beth would do it right, you pessimistic bastard". I simply don't share that same level of optimism.

 

Finally, thank you for adding those additional uploading checkboxes. It's a nice touch. Anything that makes things more cut and dry is to my liking. Now go get some rest.

[Gurofiend24]

When my cousin told me about the skyrim remastered thing, I told him I was excited for him because he always wanted to mod but he had a shitty computer. I have a gaming rig and have enjoyed it for a long time, but I didn't get mad and say, UGH PC IS SO MUCH BETTER, YOU'RE PS4 MODS WILL BE s#*! BECAUSE PC CAN GIVE MY EYES ORGASMS. TELL MY AUNTY I SAID f*#@ OFF TOO BECAUSE HER LAPTOP USED SOLELY FOR WORK IS s#*! COMPARED TO MINE.

 

I just said, "Awesome cuz, Imma refer you some mods cuz i been around the block." I still have my f*#@ing modded game, and now he will have his and we're both happy. I feel like elitists are just lonely assholes that don't have any real friends or family that they care about or care for them. And thus they cling to their parent paid for (talking about elitists not regular people) expensive computers and cling to it for dear life and put others without a computer down to give their lives meaning and to seem better than the smelly turds they are.

 

I think we should just hold hands sing kumbaya and get to know some of the cool people who will tickle that small compassion tumor inside and ban together and focus on the real problem. If we can do that a become a "Community", and fight all the wrongs like capcoms street fighter 5 release and all the s#*! the gaming companies have been doing to us, taking advantage of us in the form of Dlcs and in-game payments for basic s#*!, we can create a better future.

 

But here we are blaming and yelling at each other. And I'm sure nothing will change and we will all continue to be s#*! people.

 

So all in all, this entire post is a joke. This post is like my teardrops in the shower. A liquid like so many others flowing down every fat fold of my body before eventually being sucked down the drain called humanity.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Gurofiend24

[Nogrim313]

mod authors should get together in a class action against them for this massive f*#@ up.

as i see it Bethesda is no less at fault for the copyright infringement they are allowing to take place than napster or any of the other filesharing sites.

 

they are benefiting from this rampant theft as much or more so than the people actually stealing mods, in that they have gained a massive boost to console game sales.

[studentTwenty]

I love this article. It makes me excited to be a part of a proper conversation. Dark0ne, you have hit the nail squarely on the head.

 

Some things I'd like to say:

 

The "far right" point in the article was specifically to create a separate category for people who take the PC Master Race thing to an extreme. Any political leanings anyone has read into it says more about them than it does about anything Dark0ne said.

 

My sincerest hope is that Bethnet does finally get up off its posterior and deal with mod theft. That's not a problem with the console community; it's a problem with certain people being a$$es. Blaming the console players for it isn't victim-blaming, but it is Unwilling/Unknowing Accessory blaming. Were I a betting man, I'd say that the vast majority of console FO4 players don't really know anything about this, and if they did, they'd be upset.

 

The answer is, and always has been, community. Bethnet needs to do a better job at listening to and cultivating theirs. Ours needs to stand together to defend the games and hobbies we collectively love.

 

No matter where you stand on consoles having access to mods, you love mods. If you didn't, you wouldn't be here. This is a thing now, and we need to stand together and do everything we can to help. We need to report stolen content to Bethnet, to tell our console-bound friends about the issue, and to support one another.

 

What we don't need is to devolve into bickering about how mods are only for PCs, or the collective age of a particular game's community, or any other self destructive bull hockey. We're gamers. Let's focus on what's awesome, and what's broken, and how we can take awesome to AWESOME and fix what's broken.

 

Theoretically, that's exactly what modders do in the first place.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Watts533

[dazzerfong]

In response to post #39477785. #39477905 is also a reply to the same post.

exShinra wrote: Its in my view, detrimental for consoles to have mods.

Mods are one of the last bastion we have as PC gamers. Mods, graphics, and the keyboard and mouse. As we start getting more and more towards the uncanny valley, the only thing left will be consoles. We will be stuck with DLC, mods created solely on consoles (Remember Far Cry 2?).

We just don't f*#@ing want that. We don't want the dirty console peasants to reap our rewards, we want them to wisen up and make our community a better place.

Its not bigotry or doucheness to protect your community, especially when the console community as a whole does not appreciate what goes into the creation of mods. If they wanted to have mods, they should have went with PC, since thats our major selling point.

This has huge, overreaching concerns for many different markets to! If PC gaming falls, then graphic card makers like Nvida and AMD will fall as well. There will just be much less demand for their chips if the only practical application of the new GPUS is complex computations and rendering. The enthusiast class of PC gamers has driven technological progress more than the peasants ever will.

Stop trying to defend the console players. They don't give a s#*! about what goes into our work, they just want to eat the cake you've made without sharing it.

I hope the Nexus finds a way to punish mod thieves much more harshly. The best deterrent to crime is the nuclear option.

PonceMonster wrote: Consoles are the ones that are gonna die out in the next couple of years. Neither microsoft nor sony, have a plan of what to do next. This is mostly just about the present, and what they're doing to f*#@ us over. You need not worry about your mods, but with the community, we do have an obligation to feel angry, or frustrated, or offended with what's happening. Don't feel a need to hate on Console players persay', but if they are talking s#*! to any of our games or our community, well then you know what to do.

Do you develop mods yourself? If not, you're reaping our rewards too. See the irony?

Let's not beat around the bush here, I know you make mods, but the overwhelming majority of PC players of this game are not modders, and are more or less identical to console users except their toy is shinier.

Thing about selling points, if you don't adapt, you die. Remind me to tell people that cars are banned as they ruined the horse riding business. Protecting your own 'selling points' is a surefire way of knowing that -that- is the only advantage you have, and it's a tenuous one.

Oh, and you'll be surprised how much money Nvidia and AMD make outside of the gamer market. Open your mind up and don't be a peasant, eh?

[HadToRegister]

In response to post #39480685.

DeMocha wrote: @Dark0ne, wholeheartedly agree. Have no issue with console users getting mods, but not at the modders expense or the users for that matter as the legit users will also suffer from the slowness or lack of action. If a modder wants to put their mods here or beth.net or anywhere else really its their call, hell if they decide to keep it to themselves then its their right.


I feel sorry for the console mod users who go to use a supposedly legit mod only to find
1/ It doesn't work
2/ Causes crashes, corrupted saves (immediate or over long term)
3/ Checks for updates only to find mod they downloaded is unsupported or just isn't the legit mod.
4/ Uninstalls mod and corrupts the game anyway.
5/ By the time bethesda do something about it the damage has already been done.

While it can be very easy to pick a side in the console vs pc modding, the problem is that bethesda has half assed this.

Many of us who play Bethesda games on PC especially those who use substantial number of mods, know that more mods = greater chance of conflicts, corruption, performance issues or just outright ctd. As many would likely agree when steam workshop got involved with skyrim, support became a nightmare because 'newb' mod users were downloading massive numbers of mods and expected them to work, without reading about additional install instructions, known issues, conflicts or having any idea about load orders, archive inval, etc. No doubt when it happens (if it hasn't already), there will be a lot of disgruntled users appearing on mod threads on Nexus and beth.net complaining about how so and so mod broke there game.

Most modders are kind enough to support their own mods on whatever platform they decide to allow, and many will often go out of their way to make it compatible with other mods. But when people steal a mod and upload it elsewhere then that mod often isn't supported, why should a modder have too? But we all know that the users will often go out of there way to complain rather than ask for help about any issues they encounter.

In the end it will all eventually be redirected at bethesda, Bethesda should have a few additions to the use of the mods uploaded there.

1/ Warn that using multiple mods especially similar ones will result in a dud game.
2/ Warn that its quite likely to reduce performance as many mods in the past have been designed to make use of the additional power some pcs have.
3/ Have more presence on their own forums and in support. ( Hell i am still unable to download CK, since Beth.net launcher appears to direct CK install/downloads to dud server for australians that don't use a vpn).
4/ Support the modders who they hope will provide additional content, by providing the moderation, improving the ability to report abuse, and reacting promptly. Regardless of peoples opinions about Nexus, i think we can all agree that bethesda would be better able to pay for the suggested 24/7/365 support that beth.net (especially since its in beta) needs.

Ignoring or taking long time to take action against the above will result in modders not uploading and using the service, or being less active in the support of it. This will result in less use by users as they will find fewer mods that are supported or work and become more jaded till they decide to not risk their install and saves. Ending in Bethesda having wasted time and money implementing the service in the first place.

Mod thieves will not support the mods they did not create they often won't know how, so if people wish to believe there is nothing wrong with that theft then so be it, but when you or others download a stolen mod knowingly then break your game because the true author had a good reason not to upload it in the first place then its your own damn fault.

Another very glaring mistake Bethesda made was allowing users to rate mods without ever downloading/using them.

With the website "design" the way it currently is, this can mean life or death for a mod, if someone decides to dislike a modder, they can bury the mod by "One-Starring" it

(OK< not sure why my comment was tacked on as a reply to your comment?) Edited June 18, 2016 by HadToRegister

[ArsenicTouch]

In response to post #39478620. #39478950, #39478990, #39479360, #39480785, #39481460, #39481565, #39482090, #39482190, #39482470 are all replies on the same post.

Kira8002 wrote: I've been using this website for 8 years I guess, and I never bothered coming out of the woodwork to express my opinions or whatever, but I guess now it's a good time. Here it goes:

Dark0ne, you are naive.

People gathered at Nexus for convenience and simplicity's sake. If things start getting too complex or full of drama (like this buzzwords filled post of yours), then we'll just move somewhere else, and this WILL happen to Nexus if you keep making mistakes like this. Your post will divide the community even more than console mods ever would.

We users and content creators own you nothing, you are entitled to nothing. If we see that this site isn't worth the trouble anymore, we'll just pack our s#*&#33; and go.

everstitan wrote: then go and don't come back, right wing trumpeter

PonceMonster wrote: As much as I want to punch you in the face right now... Robin is love, Robin is life.

imbadatgames69 wrote: Wall just got 10ft higher, Pedro.

GarnetSan wrote: What do you mean by "things start getting too complex"? Also, being in charge of a website and releasing a statement to the comunity explaining the issue it has been having recently and explaining the small changes are going to be happening to the website so as to benefit the whole comunity is NOT drama. It's called being responsible towards your community.

Judging by your profile, no file pictures added, 0 endorsements, 7 posts, etc. I'd say that you are on nexus only to see what you can get from this community, which is absolutely fine, you are in your right to do so and it's within the guidelines of the community.

But the fact that you say that this post will divide a community in which you have not taken any part... is naïve.

Correcting your statement, this comunity does owe Dark0ne something, which is the ability to share content between ourselves so as to enjoy it. He is entitled to his own opinion and on his right to be the one to inform the community on which steps the website is going to take to prevent a very serious issue that affects it which is intellectual property theft.

If you think that trying to protect property from authors whose work you have been enjoying for eight years is "too much of a hassle" for you, then you can, as your said, pack your s#*&#33; and go.

madpaddy wrote: THIS.... ( Judging by your profile, no file pictures added, 0 endorsements, 7 posts, etc. I'd say that you are on nexus to see what you can get from this community ).

8 years and you haven't given 1 endorsement not contributed a single thing, sorry but your words are as empty as your profile.

Nas00 wrote: Pack your s#*&#33; and go then.

P.S: shut the door on your way out.

sp4rkfist wrote: Good bye then, it's not like you are an active user at nexus despite your join date.

juiceb1tch wrote: Aiite seeya.

Nogrim313 wrote: read the actual article dumb ass.

Next time you have a thought, just let it go Kira8002. It's clear you didn't even understand the point he was making before you started shooting your mouth off. Don't forget to let the door hit you on the way out. Edited June 18, 2016 by ArsenicTouch

[ENightmare69]

As you can tell by my post count and length of membership here I have been far from.. contributing.. however I have always held this site in high regard and my first "come to" when I wanted a mod for my game. The quality of the mods and sheer volume of mods is truly breathtaking! Just this evening actually I reinstalled Skyrim and started a fresh character after grabbing a bunch of mods from here. My girlfriend was sat reading her book then commented how amazing some of the outfits my character had looked and just how amazing skyrim looked saying "I don;t remember the game looking THAT good" a part of me wanted to say "yeah thats what a new gfx card can do" so as to validate spending the £500 I spent on my gfx card the other week haha but I didn't.. I said it was due to the amazing modders of this website, so she had a look.

 

And thats where my trouble started.. she spent the next 3 hours scanning through this site looking at mods so she could create her own character haha

 

My point of my ramble? This is an amazing site with amazing content and I can;t thank the community enough for producing such amazing mods and sharing them with us! On that note I find it extremely distasteful that anyone would take a mod that is so generously uploaded here, and then steal it by uploading it elsewhere claiming it as their own! Give credit where credit is due, and at least ask the owner of the mod permission first and if you get it then when you upload it then SAY that it isn't yours and you got it from someone else, a link back here would be great ;) as well.

 

Now to play devils advocate.. I have a quad core 16GB ram 4GB gfx card with SSD hand built pc rocking a ROG motherboard with all the trimmings.. I also have a Playstation 4 and play online with many of my friends using that rather than the PC, not everyone can have a super spec pc, I work in IT so get my tech cheaper through the company. But what if I wanted to play Skyrim on my Playstation with an amazing mod I found here? Now I know (at least what I gather is the case) only xbox can use these mods at present.. but say I wanted to use a mod from here on my console.. the only way of doing so would be to upload it to Bethesda first so that I could grab it on my console right? And that I can see is a problem.. it then "encourages" people to upload it to Bethesda so they can play it, and there by sharing it with everyone else as well.. sure theres the asshats that, as already stated in the OP are bragging about what they are stealing.. but I am sure some are simply doing it as a workaround to get the mods on their consoles and mean no harm to the developer of the mod by doing so.. but still.. they should ask permission first..

 

In ending.. love the site, love the content, and a big thanks to all that contribute here for your hard work! And know that I at least won;t be uploading anything I get from here elsewhere :)