On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[Hutchy01]

I don't own a console and don't really have any upcoming plans to do so but I feel that you are right on everything, this PC master race needs to stop and that it's nice to see the nexus trying to work alongside that "Idea" of Bethesda.net's mods

[zeus1966]

I hope Bethesda get there act together Dark0ne. your essay is spot on and dead point center of this whole situation.

[balwick]

In response to post #39468355.

Izaki131 wrote: The author could've done without the long SJW-esque rant. Maybe you should give modding ON a console a try if you like them so much.

You silly tart, you're exactly the type of person he tells to sod off in the post.

[Theseus12]

I'm in a few Skyrim Facebook groups, with console players excited for mods. I'm going to give them the link to this article. Just a headsup

[Dark0ne]

In response to post #39468315.

R0NlN wrote: I hesitate to post this (since most people aren't very open to criticism, no matter how constructive-- that's just human nature), but in the end I feel compelled to do so. That was a painful read, which means it probably didn't accomplish what you wanted it to.

I know you have some important points to make, but there's a lot of brush to clear to find them. Please, in the future, edit before you publish. Provide an introduction that previews your main points, develop those points in the body, and finish with a summary. Go through each line (or at least each paragraph) and ask yourself, "Does this need to be here? Can it be shortened or reworded, to make the point more concisely?"

Try saying in a few words what you've said here in 5,127. You have to grab your readers' attention, get your message across, and wrap it up as quickly as the subject allows.

Sorry for the unsolicited advice. I only want to help you write articles that will impact your audience.

I hated English Lit class for this very reason.

These posts have always been a practical opinion-dump on my part. Almost as though you're reading what I would have said out loud, unedited and uncut. My honest opinion.

Believe it or not these articles do go through extensive editing, reworking of paragraphs, the removal of others and reorganising the structure, so the end result is exactly how I wanted the article to read.

All in all, it took about 6 hours to write and edit this particular article. Edited June 17, 2016 by Dark0ne

[Theseus12]

In response to post #39464010. #39464265, #39466000, #39467535 are all replies on the same post.

MokChaoticran wrote: Thanks for this, Dark0ne, Robin, whichever you'd prefer. Watching people argue, the countless rant videos, the nonstop flood of e-mails in my inbox for reporting and calling out stolen content on Bethesda.net, watching big time mod authors lock their doors and pull their work out of the public market - It's been a painful couple of weeks and I really appreciate some kind of official word on this, and as far as the modding community goes, you're as official as it gets.

I overall agree with your stance, and it is the most educated, realistic and moral of the ones I've seen put forward. If you read this, I'd like to ask, what is your opinion on the prospect of "Mod-DRM" and the likes, as it has been discussed among mod authors lately?

Dark0ne wrote: I honestly see no problem with inserting hidden scripts in to mods, that only trigger if the mod is used on a console, that informs users that the mod has been stolen and uploaded to Bethesda.net without permission (and to perhaps please report the mod).

I'm obviously not in favour of any form of DRM that would ultimately damage a console player, his console or his save game.

yevvie wrote: That would be amazing thing, especially informing console users that the stolen mod can damage their console, saves, and everything they have on there, since it wasn't tested with consoles at all.

I'd love to see someone from nexus releasing such script so we could add it to our mods, since for many of us something like this is way too complex to create.

Hopefully this idea will stay in minds of modders here, as it's really good way of fixing things.

Xeneonic wrote: I have to agree with Dark0ne's latter sentence. Most people playing on consoles and browsing beth.net are people that want to play with mods with no strings attached. Not everyone researches into these developments the past few weeks, they come home from a hard day at work, see a new popular mod and want to try it out.

Getting to hear at that time that the mod won't work is fine, but suddenly having your game broken or saves gone is a few steps too far, as it would be punishment to someone that doesn't even know it was stolen or anything like that. You'd be punishing the wrong group of people with that.

To the contrary, I'm sure some trolls would upload some mods to beth.net that would delete saves etc just to annoy the community for the hell of it.

Requiring SKSE or a script that warns users that it will not work/is stolen should be more than enough.

A mod that suddenly boots the game back to the main menu, and says "(plugin) was not designed with consoles in mind, and could severely damage your system. If you see this message, it is likely that this mod is stolen, and we ask that you please report it. If you believe this message is an error, please contact (mod author) at (page)

[TWGorilla]

Read it. Agree. nuff said.

[jackty89]

In response to post #39468315. #39468760 is also a reply to the same post.

R0NlN wrote: I hesitate to post this (since most people aren't very open to criticism, no matter how constructive-- that's just human nature), but in the end I feel compelled to do so. That was a painful read, which means it probably didn't accomplish what you wanted it to.

I know you have some important points to make, but there's a lot of brush to clear to find them. Please, in the future, edit before you publish. Provide an introduction that previews your main points, develop those points in the body, and finish with a summary. Go through each line (or at least each paragraph) and ask yourself, "Does this need to be here? Can it be shortened or reworded, to make the point more concisely?"

Try saying in a few words what you've said here in 5,127. You have to grab your readers' attention, get your message across, and wrap it up as quickly as the subject allows.

Sorry for the unsolicited advice. I only want to help you write articles that will impact your audience.

Dark0ne wrote: I hated English Lit class for this very reason.

These posts have always been a practical opinion-dump on my part. Almost as though you're reading what I would have said out loud, unedited and uncut. My honest opinion.

Believe it or not these articles do go through extensive editing, reworking of paragraphs, the removal of others and reorganising the structure, so the end result is exactly how I wanted the article to read.

All in all, it took about 6 hours to write and edit this particular article.

I tough it was a good article it's written in the style "I'm in front of you talking". I really think it's a good read, a bit long but for a subject like this I'm rather certain that being short would leave to much for interpretation and that is something you want to avoid. I do think he should have added a TLDR; at the end as a lot of people... dislike reading unlike me :p

[sothpaw]

In response to post #39464010. #39464265, #39466000, #39467535, #39468865 are all replies on the same post.

MokChaoticran wrote: Thanks for this, Dark0ne, Robin, whichever you'd prefer. Watching people argue, the countless rant videos, the nonstop flood of e-mails in my inbox for reporting and calling out stolen content on Bethesda.net, watching big time mod authors lock their doors and pull their work out of the public market - It's been a painful couple of weeks and I really appreciate some kind of official word on this, and as far as the modding community goes, you're as official as it gets.

I overall agree with your stance, and it is the most educated, realistic and moral of the ones I've seen put forward. If you read this, I'd like to ask, what is your opinion on the prospect of "Mod-DRM" and the likes, as it has been discussed among mod authors lately?

Dark0ne wrote: I honestly see no problem with inserting hidden scripts in to mods, that only trigger if the mod is used on a console, that informs users that the mod has been stolen and uploaded to Bethesda.net without permission (and to perhaps please report the mod).

I'm obviously not in favour of any form of DRM that would ultimately damage a console player, his console or his save game.

yevvie wrote: That would be amazing thing, especially informing console users that the stolen mod can damage their console, saves, and everything they have on there, since it wasn't tested with consoles at all.

I'd love to see someone from nexus releasing such script so we could add it to our mods, since for many of us something like this is way too complex to create.

Hopefully this idea will stay in minds of modders here, as it's really good way of fixing things.

Xeneonic wrote: I have to agree with Dark0ne's latter sentence. Most people playing on consoles and browsing beth.net are people that want to play with mods with no strings attached. Not everyone researches into these developments the past few weeks, they come home from a hard day at work, see a new popular mod and want to try it out.

Getting to hear at that time that the mod won't work is fine, but suddenly having your game broken or saves gone is a few steps too far, as it would be punishment to someone that doesn't even know it was stolen or anything like that. You'd be punishing the wrong group of people with that.

To the contrary, I'm sure some trolls would upload some mods to beth.net that would delete saves etc just to annoy the community for the hell of it.

Requiring SKSE or a script that warns users that it will not work/is stolen should be more than enough.

Theseus12 wrote: A mod that suddenly boots the game back to the main menu, and says "(plugin) was not designed with consoles in mind, and could severely damage your system. If you see this message, it is likely that this mod is stolen, and we ask that you please report it. If you believe this message is an error, please contact (mod author) at (page)

Out of everything I've had the opportunity to view - I am most supportive of the SKSE option. Since it's an outside program, it doesn't appear likely that a console user could make use of a stolen mod.

It seems to me that on top of the aformentioned... many responding console users in the bethnet forums possess little to no patience. When I used to work with other mod authors in the Oblivion days, it would take weeks, sometime months to get something ready for release. That doesn't appear to have changed. What has changed it seems is the maturity and patience level of the user audience. It's disheartening to learn that the work put into creating mods is largely misunderstood by this new audience.

[rampage1911]

After reading this I'm left wondering where you came up with the time to write it.