Lachdonin Posted July 18, 2013 Share Posted July 18, 2013 The graybeards wouldn't hide Paarthurnax if they thought the empire would tolerate him. Not necessarily true. The Greybeards hide him out of an old fear of the Akiviri dragon hunters, and the general fear and suspicion Nords have for anything Dragon. The Empire has actually been shown to be rather fond of Dragons, allowing the Temple of Akatosh to rear Dragons/Dragonlings (as seen in Daggerfall) and with Tiber Septim having actually recruited a Dragon to his cause. Hell, the imperial totem is a Dragon. So the secrecy of the Greybeards is more to do with their insular nature and total detachment from the modern world, rather than any fear of the Empire's retribution against Paarth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nudedragon Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 The graybeards wouldn't hide Paarthurnax if they thought the empire would tolerate him. Not necessarily true. The Greybeards hide him out of an old fear of the Akiviri dragon hunters, and the general fear and suspicion Nords have for anything Dragon. The Empire has actually been shown to be rather fond of Dragons, allowing the Temple of Akatosh to rear Dragons/Dragonlings (as seen in Daggerfall) and with Tiber Septim having actually recruited a Dragon to his cause. Hell, the imperial totem is a Dragon. So the secrecy of the Greybeards is more to do with their insular nature and total detachment from the modern world, rather than any fear of the Empire's retribution against Paarth. Hmm, I had not played daggerfall. Perhaps the empire would be nice, but the nords at least, would not. They don't even like mages :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XunAmarox Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 (edited) I've been through quite a few playthroughs at this point. I've killed him in some and let him live in others. In what I think would be the truest approach, I'd say the Dragonborn was meant to kill Alduin and the rest is up to them. But they aren't meant to join the Thieves guild, Dark Brotherhood, nor choose a side in the war. Here's why: We see clearly that making deals with daedra (Sithis/Nocturnal) will bind your souls to them both in life and in death, and if you pay attention you also bind your soul to either serving the empire or serving Ulfric in life and in death as well if you join the war effort. You could never become a god like Talos if you bound yourself to another. As a werewolf you're bound to Hircine. As a vampire? Molag Bal perhaps (and that has to be the worst of all) albeit you will be immortal and could potentially live an incredibly long time. I like to think of my Dragonborn as the Hero of Cyrodiil on some playthroughs since I was a vampire. On some others, I simply acknowledge that she became Sheogorath. But what a sad fate.... she went completely wonko if that's the case. If I wasn't incompetent at scripting I'd probably edit that quest in Skyrim myself and have it so Sheogorath is still the Hero of Cyrodiil as I left her, and not completely insane. So pretty much all you can do in Skyrim without being bound to a Daedra is pretty much killing Alduin, killing Miraak (edit: sorry, remembered you have to become Hermaeas Mora's champion so that's out of the picture), maybe getting married, adopting a kid (or a few), and adventuring - nothing that involves selling your soul to a daedra though! Ah but you could become a bard or archmage I suppose. You could probably also cleanse the Companions of their link to Hircine and if you really wanted to become a vampire as long as you take a cure some centuries later. As far as things go, you're perfectly within your limits to kill Paarthurnax, depending on your temperament, as well as every single other dragon in existence. The way I see it, they were already killed (aside from Paarthurnax) and if you let him live then quite a few others will live as well and by the time they become a threat you'll be long dead and who knows what could become of the world. There were dozens that left with him and sure they may say they'll try to follow his ways but what's to say they won't rebel and go back to their old ways? If it were just Paarthurnax alone I would say leave him there at the Throat of the World. He's a pretty good guy and has good intentions... but good intentions tend to have the worst of consequences sometimes. So, Paarthurnax dies, all dragons die. That's how I think it should be, for the greater good. Edited July 19, 2013 by XunAmarox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 The problem with that, Xun, is that the PC doesn't have a soul in a normal sense. The PC's in Elder Scrolls games seem to be more an extension of the Elder Scrolls themselves than actual 'people'. Even the Nerevarine surpassed their 'Nerevar Reborn' mantle and existed for the sole purpose of making crucial decisions, then disappearing. This is the way of things in the Elder Scrolls universe, the characters appear when a crucial decision needs to be made (Who gains the Mantella? Does Dagoth Ur take over the world? Does Dagon successfully complete his purpose and destroy Nirn? Does Alduin consume the world?) acting as an agent of the Elder Scrolls and determining with future will manifest before vanishing in a suitably heroic fashion (The Blade Agent was 'destroyed' in Talos' apoetheosis, the Nerevarine journeyed to Akivir, the CoC mantled a God). Their souls ultimately belong to the Elder Scrolls, and are not something they can freely give to any Daedra or even Sithis. Certain decisions HAVE to be made by the Scrolls agents. They are, yes, generally only the core story decisions, does Alduin win? Does that vampire-dude block out the sun? Does the first Dragonborn return? However, time is as fickle in Nirn as history is, and inevitably all things tend to come to pass. The Skeleton Key WILL be returned to the Twilight Sepulcher. Someone WILL recover the shards of the Axe of Ysgrimr (probably spelled that wrong... who cares, barbaric proto-nords). Something WILL happen to Paarthunax (though, like Vivec before him, he may just 'disappear'). The history of Tamriel will not likely remember who brought these about, but they might as well have been the Dovahkiin. The Civil War is a far more interesting thing, and a favorite fan-theory of mine states that the Dovahkiin actually does all three options (Imperial, Stormcloak and objective avoidance) through a Dragonbreak, thus recreating the circumstances of Talos' asension to the throne of Lorkhan, thus Mantling the 9th Divine and sticking it to those snotty Thalmor once and for all. But that is a discussion for elsewhere... And one which has happened before.The point being, who you 'pledge' your soul to is irrelevant, because the Dovahkiin's soul is not his to give, whether it exists or not. It is also a forgone conclusion that everything will happen in some way, and in most cases where a black and white choice is given, the events outcome will be obscure and subject to much intellectual debate (Some claim the Nerevarine killed Vivec, others that the Daedra carried him into the Dreadlands, others still say he simply left, knowing the time of the Tribunal was over). That doesn't mean your choices in the mater aren't important, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sneekins Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 :ohmy: OK I DID kill Paarthurnax... and now the old greybeards don't like me! I've done so much since that save, that going back is tooooo much pain!!! Is there any way to fool the greybeards into showing me "words of power" again???? :ermm: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
majormittens Posted September 21, 2013 Share Posted September 21, 2013 No way, even though I'm not really fond of how the Greybeards tend to stray away from their path and try to direct you in the story, I still love Paarthurnax and he has such good chemistry with the player, it's really hard to summon strength to go and murder him. He did some crimes but in my eyes he was forgiven long ago when he took the human side in the struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soupdragon1234 Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) She hijacked the Greybeards' horn of Jurgen Windcallers quest for her own ends, sent me on a dangerous mission to infiltrate the Thalmor embassy risking huge exposure for my character and that dunmer guy, and does she care? And again she sent me on another dangerous mission to find Esbern, and for what? What do I get out of it? A set of Blades armour?! I'm tired of being used by Delphine. If she thinks I'm going to do her bidding one more time she can kiss my arse. You want him dead, fine, get off your backside and do it yourself and face the consequences yourself. Besides I like him, he's done me no harm, so why should I? In her blind hatred of dragons she's as bad as the Nords in their blind hatred towards elves and everyone and everything thats not Nord. Her crashing of the peace talks and her arrogance just made my decision an easy one. If it were just Paarthurnax alone I would say leave him there at the Throat of the World. He's a pretty good guy and has good intentions... but good intentions tend to have the worst of consequences sometimes. So, Paarthurnax dies, all dragons die. That's how I think it should be, for the greater good. As Angeir said, dragons are part of the natural order of things. Its pure arrogance to assume that Man is the supreme being and that all others deserve to die, any more than Nords are the supreme race in Skyrim and that all Mer deserve to be driven out/exterminated. If men weren't so hostile towards all dragons perhaps there would be more like Parthurnaax. Edited October 19, 2013 by soupdragon1234 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kradus Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 (edited) Dragons where only dangerous when Alduin was able to resurrect them. After he was expelled through time, dragons begun declining, so they're no danger to the future of mankind if he's 'dead'. Edited October 19, 2013 by kradus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simniac Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 :ohmy: OK I DID kill Paarthurnax... and now the old greybeards don't like me! I've done so much since that save, that going back is tooooo much pain!!! Is there any way to fool the greybeards into showing me "words of power" again???? :ermm: No worries, you don't learn anymore shouts from the Greybeards after they teach you Clear Skies to open up the way to Paarthurnax. :) You have to find and learn the rest of the Words of Power by yourself after that (except the one you get from Paarthurnax). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpockST Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 If you get all the Words of Power from the Greybeards early on, they disappear from High Hrothgar anyway. There are no more Words of Power quests for them to give, so they just disappear. I finished the Words of Power questline after finishing the War questline, so have no idea what happens if you haven't finished the meeting but figure they would probably stick around until there were no more quest lines that involved them before disappearing. At that point, it should be up to you whether or not to kill any dragons. I really hate being pushed or blackmailed into doing or not doing anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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