Where Does the Negativity Come From?

[CourierandWanderer]

I honestly don't understand why many people are so prejudice about Bethesda's treatment to Fallout, specifically the No Mutants Allowed community. Can't they see that Interplay f***ed up when they made the console game Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel? Last time I checked, everyone hated that game, including them! Besides, Bethesda made the wasteland look more realistic than just barren sand and dirt. The haters have obviously been watching too much of Mad Max. And even if Interplay, now resurrected as Obsidian, redeems themselves, they can't reclaim the franchise. Their mistake came at a price for they were forced to sign a contract. There is also the fact that Bethesda is far wealthier than Obsidian. Bethesda has been around for 30 years while I think Obsidian is only 12 years. The more money, the more power over a franchise. Also, when making FNV, Bethesda came to Obsidian, not the other way around. They hired Obsidian, to give insight on how they could connect the two Fallouts into the same world.

So you see, I think everyone's negative feedback is rather hypocritical. I know that there are many differences from the old games, but I will always love it because it's Fallout. I've been playing the old games since I was 10, right now I'm 24. My father loves these games, as does my brother; they're 51 and 27.

The way I see it, Nexus is run by people who appreciate Bethesda's work. There are mods that helped give Bethesda new ideas. The Creation Engine is loosely inspired by FNV mod Project Nevada, and the building and managing of settlements is taken from the RTS Settler mod.

[Oubliette]

I'm surprised you can even ask that question here and totally miss the whole "Bethesda condoning if not outright endorsing mod theft" thing or their likewise unwise and unwanted attempts to move to paid mods.

 

Nexus has been around since Morrowind. It started as a hosting site with that game and it's modding community in mind, the fact that Bethesda now releases Fallout titles relatively often that can be modded, was unlikely to have weighed in on the site owners thought process at the time.

 

Asking why there is hostility to Fallout 4 here and completely ignoring the mods is a whole new level of obtuse.

[CourierandWanderer]

I'm surprised you can even ask that question here and totally miss the whole "Bethesda condoning if not outright endorsing mod theft" thing or their likewise unwise and unwanted attempts to move to paid mods.

ÃÂ

Nexus has been around since Morrowind. It started as a hosting site with that game and it's modding community in mind, the fact that Bethesda now releases Fallout titles relatively often that can be modded, was unlikely to have weighed in on the site owners thought process at the time.

ÃÂ

Asking why there is hostility to Fallout 4 here and completely ignoring the mods is a whole new level of obtuse.

Duly noted on the whole mod theft thing, but what if Bethesda was already working on similar ideas? The world isn't really that big on ideas. Edited July 25, 2016 by CourierandWanderer

[DoctorKaizeld]

I think you really dont get why people have issues with Bethesda. So lets clear some stuff up.

 

1) Bethesda had obsidian make fallout nv with zero help from bethesda because they were busy with Skyrim. Then Bethesda rush Obsidian and forced them to release FONV before it was finished.

 

2) Bethesda has been using the same game engine since Morrowind with a new coat of paint each game. This is a big problem for fans of the series as Bethesda refuses to make a new engine for the ES and FO games.

 

3) obsidian isnt as old as Bethesda but they have a very tallented staff.

 

4) Bethesda rehashed Fallout 3s plot for fallout 4 and rehashed the same map layout. The later is fine as they based it on the real world location and did an okay job of it.

 

5) FO4 has the smallest map in the entire franchise (excluding non-beth games) it is smaller then the ES game series maps as well. The claim that there is less wasted space isnt valid as there is still plenty. Some places are too crowded and others are incredibly empty. Seriously three location markers belong to Diamond city alone. Yes we can play in the entire world but it feels small and uninteresting.

 

6) Bethesda.net and not preparing for or quickly protecting against mod theft.

 

7) bethesda also works with the mindset of "eh the modders will do it if we dont"

 

8) poorly written games with unintresting plots and characters.

 

9) the streamlining of gameplay. Namely the conversation tree nonsense they ripped from Mass Effect that freakin sucks.

 

We have reasons to be unhappy with Bethesda. We want them to be better then they are because we know they can be. I personally am hard on them for that reason. I want them to make great games not a blank sheet for modders to fill in.

[CourierandWanderer]

Tell me, if you hate Fallout so much, then why be a part of the modding for it? I'm sorry that I don't understand everyone's logic. Obviously, I'm going to receive accusations, but I stand by my opinion. Besides, I can tell that Todd Howard is being treated like a Michael Bay wannabe, so there's a reason right there for most of the hatred.

[DoctorKaizeld]

Who said anything about hating Fallout?

[lelcat]

The main problem is people having their judgement clouded by Nostalgia and it is combined with envy (players always hate big companies because it is in the nature of all living things to hate those that have more) and religious RPG fundamentalism ("It's not a real RPG unless the graphics suck and you can talk the end boss into becoming a vegetarian"). This creates an opinion-cloud on the internet where all these diffuse feelings manifest in:

 

-COD sucks, Bethesda sucks, Obsidian does not suck because they present themselves as poor developers who do it for the love of rpg and not the money. Any indie, no matter how crappy it is and how many years it is stuck in early acces does not suck (again because of the projection of the image of the poor tortured game designer artist).

 

Cat fully supports Bethesda 100%. And all Bethesda games are better than the previous ones and Morrowind is the worst Elder Scrolls game.

Edited July 25, 2016 by lelcat

[jjb54]

My .02 cents worth:

 

Why? Well there are number of reasons:

 

1. Hype -vs- Reality. The game was given a lot of Pre-Sale Hype and .. well, reality was a lot different.

 

2. I've been reading on other Forums that some people are not happy w/the SIMS game being put into Fallout. But other's do like it. I've read a few posts that said, "If I wanted another SIMS game, I was not looking for it in FALLOUT."

 

3. PC -vs- Console. The PC users are getting bugs and yes, crippled game, because of the Console Game Stations. It is very much annoying that our games get crippled because of the Console World.

 

4. Mods. I now know of 10+ mod creators that deleted their mods and will no longer mod for FO-4, because of the THEFT issue. People taking their mods and posting them on BETH'S site without permission and Beth does NOTHING about it.

 

I would have personally thought, that with the FAILURE of Skyrim Pay For Mods and the Theft issue that did happen, that Beth would have learned something and would have engaged a Protocol for such. Since they know / knew it would 100% happen.

 

Number 3 and 4 are two issues that are indeed leaving a bit of a sour taste in a lot of players mouths.

[TeamBacon]

My .02 cents worth:

 

1. Fallout 4 = best Fallout game ever.

 

2. I don't really care if people think otherwise, they have the right to think whatever they want.

[llamaRCA]

My perspective:

 

1) FO4 isn't much of a Fallout game. It's super fun and I like playing it and am writing mods for it, but if it weren't for the existence of the traditional factions, etc I'd think Beth had branched into something new because it's obviously a Beth game, it's just not obvioulsy a Fallout game (or built in the tradition of the TES titles).

 

There are Fallout fans disappointed by the lack of Fallout-ness and Bethesda betrayed its own ideals by introducing a voiced protag and that dialogue wheel. Skyrim, although shallower than earlier titles, still allowed the player to create any character they wanted and to imagine that character to be anything they could conceive. FO4 does it's best to force the player to be Nate or Nora and the player dialogue is the worst I've seen from them. Doesn't matter how many gratuitous building mechanics they offer to the player when they did so much damage to one of the mechanics that made their games unique and desirable. FO4 is by far their most generically designed game.

 

2) The internet is a hotbed of hyperbole. It's rare that you run into comments that talk reasonably about a game's strengths and weaknesses at the same time. Comments are rewarded for going all in and claiming that a game is the best thing ever or the worst piece of junk to ever be released.

 

3) Fallout fans are weird. I cannot recall ever successfully having a public conversation with a diehard NV fan in which I could talk about the weaknesses of that game. There's a lot of good in NV, but there are weaknesses in it that exist not because Beth was an evil overlord but simply because some of Obsidian's design choices weren't that great. Also, not every line of dialogue in NV is absolutely better than every line of dialogue ever written by Bethesda. Obs and Bethesda have different strengths and each have weaknesses. An unwillingness to admit that leads to zero interesting discussion of the games within the community. I've found I have to go outside the Fallout communities to enjoy a reasoned, interesting and nuanced conversation about the Fallout games.

 

 

("It's not a real RPG unless the graphics suck and you can talk the end boss into becoming a vegetarian").

 

This is the funniest thing I've read in a long time and it's so true.